Miss Peregrine Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't know where I have gone wrong but my kids do not stay in bed at night. Not the 5 yo, not the 8 yo, not even the 10 and 12 yos!! Give me your best practical advice. And yes, I do GOMB. But after the 10th time I have had it and yell. This has been going on for years:glare: They will continue on until 11 pm sometimes longer. Sometimes I have them make up the time of mine they wasted the next night by going to bed x amount of hours later(however long they screwed around). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't know where I have gone wrong but my kids do not stay in bed at night. Not the 5 yo, not the 8 yo, not even the 10 and 12 yos!! Give me your best practical advice. And yes, I do GOMB. But after the 10th time I have had it and yell. This has been going on for years:glare: What is GOMB? I say wear their little rear ends out. Make them get up early and work hard so they fall asleep when their heads hit the pillow. In the meantime, I think I'd be working on the two older kids. The younger ones are following their lead and once you get the habit broken with the big guys, it'll be easier to have the little guys fall in line. Tell me what GOMB is, so I don't suggest ideas already contained in the acronym. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 YAY! I was hoping you would answer.:D GOMB=Get off my butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'm a really nice mom until bedtime...I have this look and everyone of the children knew the look...you get out of bed and your toast! :glare: They only tried it a couple of times...and I did exactly what Barb suggested...early to rise, early to bed! :D I worked them so hard they were happy to stay in bed at night. Getting up at 5am for 5 days absolutely broke my teenage daughters from being up at all hours of the night and wanting to sleep all day. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 YAY! I was hoping you would answer.:D GOMB=Get off my butt. Oh, LOL! Somebody needs to add that to the acronym page. So can you reason with the older guys? Maybe help them see things from your perspective and engage them in 'training' their younger siblings? Do you have that kind of dynamic (or the potential for it) in your household? I find that when I want major changes to happen in my house (usually involving chores or lack thereof), enlisting the older kids as grown up allies works to change their behavior more quickly than rewards and punishments. I would start by getting everyone up by 7am. Don't tie the bedtime thing to it exactly, just tell everyone you are trying to get everybody on a similar schedule. Make sure everyone has plenty of activity during the day. Sit the older ones down and explain how much you hate bedtime struggles and why. Remind each of them that even though they love their parents and siblings, sometimes they just need some time to think or read or listen to the quiet house. They have the luxury of going to their rooms and shutting the door when the mood hits, but you are on call with small people in your ears from waking to sleeping. If you don't get your quiet at the end of the day you turn into cranky, ugly mama and no one, including you, likes her. You need that end of the day time to wind down so that you are a happier, more fun human being to be around. Tell them that at first you'll only be able to trust them to stay put because they're older and more capable of controlling themselves, but if they help you out by staying put then the younger ones are more apt to establish better habits too. I think I would put everyone to bed at the same time. What are their excuses like? Water? Bathroom? Kisses? Make sure you have a checklist and all those things are taken care of before sending them to their rooms. Remind everyone that this is it, you do not want to see anyone else tonight. Do they share rooms or do they have their own rooms? Put them to bed late enough so that the 5 and 8yo kids want to crash almost immediately and so that the 10 and 12yos aren't completely insulted ...maybe 9ish? Tell them they can read or listen to books on tape or whatever you think is reasonable until they are ready to go to sleep. Bedtime is bedtime, but lights out (which is what we call sleep time in our house) is up to them. That gives them some control over the situation. Until, of course, someone shows up downstairs. Then lights out is immediate (which is why I suggested storytapes...it's possible to listen to them in the dark if they are room sharing). If you must give a child a warning, be a broken record. Just say, "bed". Don't lose it or listen to excuses or allow him/her to engage you in conversation. Just shake your head and repeat flatly, "bed" and walk the offending child back to bed. Remind him or her that if you see her face again the lights will go off for the night. Then next time, do it. After a few nights of this, it will likely kick in that it's more fun to choose your own bedtime than having it cut short. Then get them up again early the next morning. I like to try and find ways of rewarding my kids intrinsically for their own self control when I can, so this is how I would handle it, I think. I hope you find something useful in there. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Though I agree with Barb on a lot of this, I do have one HUGE difference....The 5 yr old, but maybe the 8yo also, probably should be in bed before 8:30, maybe even by 7:30 or 8. Once that second wind hits a young child, it's MUCH harder. EVERYONE I have gotten to actually take me seriously on this has found that an earlier bedtime makes bedtime much easier. Of course, there are the basics to make sure of also: foods, consistency, not engaging verbally or with body language, enough work and play and exercise, etc.... My kids didn't have bedtimes at 10 and 12 so I can't help there. They did usually have a time to be up though and that naturally creates a bedtime after a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'm with the wear 'em out theory. But I also have been blessed (that is heavy sarcasm) with a kid who doesn't sleep until biologically necessary. His entire life has been: 1. Eat 2. Move until physically unable to move any longer 3. Pass out 4. Do it again I would see parents gently put their cute little ones to bed at SEVEN PM every night and have "adult" time and think to myself WHAT?!?!?!?! You're not a bad mom. You don't have bad kids. You have kids who have a circadian rhythm that leans towards night. If theirs is anything like my child's, (and, according to studies, most teenagers), it will continue to go upside down the further they go into adolescence. Personally, I refuse to allow him to become nocturnal. I get on my mommy soapbox and blather on about how the world isn't nocturnal and he has to learn how to operate in the world. Then I wake him up really early, like was mentioned above. It waxes and wanes. We have periods where the entire family gets to bed at "a decent hour". We have times when it doesn't happen. It evens out. He sleeps 9 -12-14 hours, regardless. Eh, kids. asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 The only answer I have is routine. Everyone has a bed time and a wake time, which is adjusted according to age and sleep needs. Everyone has a bedtime routine. I start making sure they stay in bed for the night from the very first time they are inclined to try to get out. It's worked for me, for the most part. Here's what our routine is: Under 10, except infants: bath (not everyday), snack, drink, bathroom, teeth, say goodnight to Dad between 8 and 8:30, Mom goes upstairs with child and reads a picture book or one chapter of something, Mom sings no more than 4 requested songs, Mom tucks in and kisses children goodnight, Mom leaves room and expects children to stay quietly in the bed, Mom turns out bedroom light but leaves hall light on, Mom doesn't care if they read or play with whatever toys are in the bed, but they must do it quietly. Mom gets children out of bed if they are not up by 7:30 a.m.. If someone yells, "I can't sleep", Mom replies, "You don't have to sleep, you just have to stay in the bed." Over 10: bedtime routine pretty much the same, except child says goodnight to Dad around 9:30, Mom no longer sings, and usually no longer reads, or tucks in, depending on child, but always kisses goodnight. Somewhere around 13, child starts staying up till Dad goes to bed (10:30) if he can get away with it. He is more likely to get away with it if he is not loud or annoying. It's amazing how respectful teenagers can be when they want to stay up late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Different Perspective- DH gets home at 8-8:30 pm. We eat dinner at about 9. I vote that 2 hours after dinner silence (not necessarily sleep) needs to descend- although last night we went to Sonic at 11. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am. I don't want to see or hear any children until after he leaves. This is our quiet time to talk, drink coffee, chat in the hearth room... The goal here is to have a period of time with dh that doesn't include dc. A period of time to discuss news, finances, any issues at home, etc. This is better for us in the morning. At night once dh has had dinner it is almost useless to attempt a meaningful conversation of any kind, so the kids might as well stay up. My suggestion is to find the schedule that allows everyone to get the amount of sleep that will enable them to function well and allow you to see dh without dc. If this means that they party until 2am and sleep until noon go for it. If this means they are up at 5am and in bed by 7 that is good too. Either way around the kids need to be respectful of the parents' schedule and not the other way around. HTH- Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mx5 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't know where I have gone wrong but my kids do not stay in bed at night. Not the 5 yo, not the 8 yo, not even the 10 and 12 yos!! Give me your best practical advice. And yes, I do GOMB. But after the 10th time I have had it and yell. This has been going on for years:glare: They will continue on until 11 pm sometimes longer. Sometimes I have them make up the time of mine they wasted the next night by going to bed x amount of hours later(however long they screwed around). Bed times are not an indicator of good or bad parenting, dear one. Due to my husband's former occupation (youth pastor) we had the kids stay up late on purpose, and allowed them to sleep in, so they could get some face time with dad and his sporadic hours. Yeah, they were up until 11PM, but they didn't rise and shine until 8 or 9am. My dh is no longer a youth pastor, but a solo pastor, so his routine has changed but ours hasn't. I am very happy with our night owl tendencies. Dh and I rarely go to sleep before 12:30am, and we get up at 8:30am, and this works beautifully for us. The kids are in rooms and quiet at around 11pm. Nice! Since this has been going on for years for you, why not accept it as your family's natural rhythm? About the "mom needs alone time" thing which we all need, what I do is have the kids do something quietly without me. My kids are older now, ages 8, 11, 13, 15 & 18. Honestly, I can say to them with a gentle but serious tone, "Don't get me unless you're bleeding, vomiting or on fire" and they know mom needs quiet time. Hang in there momma! Don't take later bed times as an indicator of your parenting or your kids' worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanamom Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I had the same problem. This week it's been better... the difference was inexpensive ($11.99 on sale at RiteAid) ipod alarm clocks. If the kids go to bed and stay in bed, they get to listen to audio books while the ipods are docked on the alarm clocks. I don't know how long this will be an enticement, but they all love it so far. That's the carrot. The stick is the actual alarm going off in the morning. I hate waking up sleeping people, so I was not very consistent about it. But the alarm clocks don't care- and the kids are up earlier this way. Just resetting our schedules has been very helpful! It's been working for the last week... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Reading and appreciating everyone's responses.:grouphug: More info: I do want to get them up earlier. DH works swing and gets home at 11:30 pm. so with us getting up too early, it wakes him up. Just to throw another wrench into the mix he will be on days for July and August. it will be easy for us to get up early because he will be gone by 4am and will have to be in bed by 8:30-9pm. BUT-then he is back to swing! UGH! The kids do get out of bed for more water, more kisses, etc, but the majority is I can hear them playing around, jumping on the floor, jumping from bed to bed( We have had 2 ER trips from kids who were rough-housing instead of sleeping:glare:) I go upstairs and reiterate that it is time for bed. I am telling you, as soon as I am downstairs it starts up again. They do listen to stories but I don't know how they hear them over all the noise they are making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Oh, LOL! Somebody needs to add that to the acronym page. So can you reason with the older guys? Maybe help them see things from your perspective and engage them in 'training' their younger siblings? Do you have that kind of dynamic (or the potential for it) in your household? I find that when I want major changes to happen in my house (usually involving chores or lack thereof), enlisting the older kids as grown up allies works to change their behavior more quickly than rewards and punishments. Awesome! Thank you, Barb! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Though I agree with Barb on a lot of this, I do have one HUGE difference....The 5 yr old, but maybe the 8yo also, probably should be in bed before 8:30, maybe even by 7:30 or 8. Once that second wind hits a young child, it's MUCH harder. EVERYONE I have gotten to actually take me seriously on this has found that an earlier bedtime makes bedtime much easier. Yes, if I get my 5yo into bed at 7:45, she is out. The later she gets in bed, the more I pay for it. I just need to be consistent and get her TO bed on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Perhaps your husband's shifting routine is throwing out the whole family from having a consistent routine over the long haul. I had a discussion only today with some women who want their kids in bed earlier so they can have some me time. I think it comes down to....you cant let them sleep in, if you want them tired for bed. My kids have to be up by 7am for schooldays...that's how our routine functions. When daddy goes to bed is irrelevent for us. However, we see a lot of him so I can imagine if we didn't we might adapt more to his schedule. But he knows how important it is for us to have our routine so school runs efficiently, so he supports it and just sees us when he does. I am a stickler really for getting up time...if I let it slide, and I did recently because our mornings are so dark now with the winter equinox on Sunday or so....it throws out our whole day. I would start from getting up time, and see if you can click everyone back into a better routine. Last night my two had a good wrestle and giggle festival for some reason, and I was going to stop them, but I was in bed reading by then (they were supposed to be cleaning their teeth) and I was about to yell when I just decided to let it go and let them fight it out and have the time together. Sometimes i think that kind of play is a pressure release. There is a time and place for it, and often its bedtime! They did stop after a while. And they still got up at 7am and we had a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanamom Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Oh... yeah- that definitely makes it really difficult with the swing shift hours. I can't stand it when my DH takes a nap on the weekends and I'm in charge of keeping the kids quiet, lol. They're kids, and they forget. I wonder how DH can sleep through all the shushing, sometimes. (That shhhhh sound carries!) Could your DH sleep with some kind of white noise machine or something that would help mute the children's noise if they got up quite a bit earlier than he does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristavws Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Bedtime here is 8:00 - when we are on break I will let it slip to 8:30. Once in bed, the kids are allowed to read or sketch in their sketchbooks until 9:00. The almost 5-year old always falls asleep well before that. We had a horrible time getting them to go to bed when they shared a room, and would have to get up constantly to tell them to go to sleep. We finally put them in separate rooms, and that solved the problem. No one is allowed to sleep past 7:30 (8:00 when we are on break). My oldest is kind of a night owl, and if he sleeps past 7:30, he has a hard time falling asleep. Krista Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 What is GOMB? http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=40 Crunchy, In your situation, I'd decide what bedtime/rising hours work for you. Know that "traditional" hours do not have merit stand alone; they are just the most common. Decide on YOUR hours. And then impliment a plan to make those happen. Your kids are old enough to sit down and say "Bedtime is not working. It's my fault as I have not been firm enough. That is changing starting now. Our hours will be _________. You get once chance to go to and stay in bed. One chance means you need to water and relieve yourself *before* bed. One chance means you do not get back out. If you get back out, you'll be escorted back to your bed, without exception. The consequences the next day will be ________ (removal of something fun that is about the length of time they've delayed going to bed)." When they *do* test your new resolve, wordlessly take them back to bed. Follow through the next day with the consequence. Repeat as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I agree with Joanne and the others. I'll add an easy tip is to stay upstairs yourself until they get with the new routine. Also remove anything from their rooms that is keeping them from sleeping. Keep water with you and hand it out before bed. I'd even consider a simple reward system to motivate them. It could be something as simple as picking breakfast or choosing the park etc. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Well, I've spent the last couple of days giving my son his own room. He was in a room with DD8 and DD5(although she falls asleep in my room most nights) I am going to still put the 5yo to bed at 8-ish--she needs it.:) The other three have to get in bed at 9 and when I told them they could turn the light out when they were tired, oh, my you'd think it was Christmas! I made sure they knew that I didn't want to see them again tonight and if I did, they will not get to try it again tomorrow. It is 10 pm here. The 5 yo has been asleep for an hour-and-a-half and the rest of the house is soooo quiet. Shhhhhh... Thanks to all, I am hoping this will end my inconsistency and make bedtime more pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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