How do I handle ds3? He has me coming unglued! (Longish)

[Mynyel]

He will be 4 in June.

 

He is anal retentive. It is the only way to explain him. I just can't think of another word at this moment.

 

We go through the same blasted thing almost every. single. day.

 

Whine, cry, whine cry if he doesn't get his way. This can last hours. I mean hours.

 

For instance he is in his room whining and wailing because I didn't pick him up and carry him to the living room this morning. Why didn't I? He was being anal. He woke up whining. I went to get him. Same thing every morning. Get his blanket and pillow. He grabs my phone (I leave it in the bedroom for him to get as he has a fit if I don't!). Well my wall changer was there too. He grabbed it. I told him (nicely, I wasn't irritated yet) that I didn't need it and to leave it. (This isn't part of the normal routine). He then got put out and dropped my phone (on purpose). I told him either he picks up my phone and leaves the charger or I am going to the living room without him. He just looked at me with that irritated look. So I left. He is now (30 minutes later) still in there whining intermittently and getting louder.

 

This similar thing happens at night. Oh. my. Lord. He likes to be picked up and carried to bed. As soon as I head back to the bedroom I had better pick his bum up because if I don't... I am not even done with bedtime routine yet! I haven't brushed my teeth! Washed my face! He doesn't ask to be picked up, he expects it. If you don't he cries and carries on. To the point he is irrational. Even if I tell him I will get you, I just need to brush my teeth, that sets off a louder wail.

 

He does this kind of thing with other things too. Like his pajamas. He *has* to wear certain pj's. *I* have to open the outside door for him if it gets closed or another fit ensues. He *HAS* to put the lid on his cup or.. yup... another fit. He has put the lid is twice (on more than one occasion) because he forgot he did it (!) and doesn't believe you when you tell him he did.

 

He gets peeved about a lot. If I *try* to tell ds9 to go get me something, then ds3 will pitch yet another fit and rush to do it himself. I have quit asking anyone but ds3 if he is in earshot. He tries to dictate who drives, he will say mama drive or daddy drive and if we don't comply? There are a few other things he *has* to do his way or else. I just can't remember them all. It has become second nature to go around or comply.

 

I *need* to break him of this. I personally don't have the time nor the constitution for handling this. I don't have time to be anal. Just pick your **** pajamas for pete's sake. Who cares who put the blasted lid in! My lord you have two feet use them.

 

He has sensory issues. I know that. This seems beyond sensory. I have been to OT. It didn't help. They didn't tell me anything I didn't read on the internet and didn't do anything I can't do at home.

 

I can't even *BEGIN* to tell you how this has impacted school for the two olders. *HE* doesn't "allow" much to get done.

 

Does anyone else have any help? Does anyone else have a child like this that can offer advice? What can I do? I am so tired of having my life revolve around how he is going to react to anything I (or we!) do.

 

Please!?

[awisha.]

No advice, just a :grouphug: for you.

[blondeviolin]

My 4yo has a need to control his environment. My 2yo can also be this way, but nat as bad as Emmett. Unfortunately, the only advice I've got is to stop pandering to it. "I'm sorry, son, but I'm not picking you up tonight." If tantruming ensues, we would pick him up, deposit him on his bed and tell him to come out when he was ready to stop screaming and we could talk.

 

My 2yo's fits last very long (especially when she's tired), and we employ the same effect. She can be more reasonable, though. At times, I can just remind her, "Who's the boss? " and she'll say, "Mommy..." and eventually comply.

 

Also realize (which I'm sure you do) it's worse when they are tired or hungry. Analyze his diet and consider dropping common irritants (dairy, gluten). Really try to provide gross motor activities. Emmett behaves MUCH better if he as had a chance to do something challenging with his entire body. (We do biking, running laps, monkey bars, swim, gymnastics, wrestling...)

 

It's exhausting! :grouphug:

[Kebo]

I have been through similar issues, though not to the degree you are describing. I know it is maddening! :grouphug:

 

This past week, my DD4 was hiding behind curtains and jumping out and yelling, "BOO!" when I approached. (This has gone on for months). Then she would ask, "Did I scare you a lot?". The only acceptable answer was, "Yes, you scared me a lot". If I was only scared a little, or not at all, she would melt down, crying and angry. Finally, I told her that I had decided never to be scared anymore. After a few tests she has been fine with it. She still tries to scare me, but I just remind her that I won't be scared anymore and we both move on with no crying. I've put down similar rules when she gets rigid .... for example, if a particular pair of pajamas were an issue, that pair would go away. If she demands to be carried (not when she is tired or injured or at the end of her rope, just out of stubborness), then I have to be willing to say no and mean it.

 

I have just been assuming this is from a combination of being strong-willed and immature. My older kids have had some form of it and have greatly improved, though not outgrown it completely!

 

If I were in charge of your son, he would never get my phone. I'm not saying that is the right move, but just how I would handle it. I would brace myself for nastiness, and PERHAPS* provide a toy substitute, but I would not let him have my phone. I would figure that this is a case of pay now (with melt downs) or pay later (with a feeling of entitlement).

 

Best of luck to you. I feel your pain :grouphug:

 

(* I say perhaps because they are "accept no substitutes" kids typically, not because I don't want them to have a substitute)

Edited March 20, 2012 by Kebo
clarification

[Sunkirst]

:grouphug:

I've BTDT and it's exhausting and intense!

 

I think it's partly age, but mostly temperament. My dd (who just turned 6), was similar ('tho to a lesser degree) to what you've described with your son at that age. For me, the breaking point was her bedtime routine. As I was being called in to give her 3 more butterfly kisses, I snapped. I told her that I loved her, but there were no more kisses that evening. I moved her big sis into my room so she could sleep, and let my little tyrant wail. I periodically went in to let her know that I loved her, but that her crying wasn't going to change my mind. It eventually worked, tho the first episode lasted almost 2 hours, and reoccurred each evening for over a week.

 

I've probably had to say "Sweetie, you know that crying won't change my mind." over 500 times since then. I've also made sure she has plenty of one on one time with me, and have tried to make sure that she can occasionally make (Mom approved) choices for herself. For your son, I would also be tempted to eliminate all dyes and most sugar from his diet, and make sure he gets plenty of sleep.

 

This has taken a huge amount of perseverance, but at 6, my dear daughter is quite a love, and only a teensy bit of a tyrant. I also think that she's happier, because she's easier to be around.

 

Good Luck!

[Kebo]

I just realized that I maybe sounded like a boot camp parent, and I want to correct that impression :lol:

 

I actually tend towards being too flexible and lenient, but with my first two children it wasn't having the desired effect on behavior. I had to adjust my style because they were of the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" variety of kids and we were all unhappy. Clearer, stricter rules actually cause much less upset, because they don't have to wonder, "if I just push harder, will I get what I want?"

 

So, we instituted rules like:

* If you ask me a question while I'm on the phone, the answer is automatically NO until I get off.

* If you ask for something nicely, you may or may not get it. If you whine for it, you won't get it.

* TV time is controlled by an automatic controller with a PIN for each child. Each person chooses the show for their own PIN time.

ETC....

 

It takes a LONG TIME for these rules to sink in with my children. Some kids just push their boundaries longer and harder than others. But, it does pay off eventually if you are consistent. I have found the years between 3 and 5 or 6 to be very challenging in this way. It sounds like you have an intense little boy and are in for a bumpy ride for a while.

 

I will echo the previous poster that it is important to sort out what is a legitimate need vs. a willingness to throw a fit to get what you want. My boys had serious sensory issues and anxieties that needed to be considered. But, a need for seamless socks and comfortable shoes is different from a need to always choose the TV show. I would recommend calmly and clearly looking at each situation and sorting out what is reasonable and kind to provide for your son, and then just trying to under-react to the meltdowns.

[TXMomof4]

DD3 was JUST like this. She was a little dictator who made life miserable in a lot of ways. She is 8 now and has been dx'ed with generalized anxiety disorder with OCD tendencies. The dr. and I talked a lot about it and I realized that the need for control was what she needed to feel secure. Of course, she couldn't articulate that at a younger age. She is doing cognitive behavioral therapy with the dr. and has started zoloft. It has made the world an entirely different place. She still tries the crying/whining/screaming sometimes, but now she can be reasoned with and I think it is more habit at this point than a real inability to control herself.

 

:grouphug: I do know how hard it is to live with it. Everyone around us just suggested *making* her do whatever. It didn't help. She was incapable of stopping the behavior on her own.

[LostSurprise]

I have just been assuming this is from a combination of being strong-willed and immature.

 

:iagree:

 

There are things you can give on...to give him more structure, responsibility, control...and there are things which you need to stand your ground on.

 

I found my son (who was like this) did better as he got older and had more responsibility/control over his life. He has needed a lot of discussion, retries, verbal rewinds, time to fuss.

 

I would stop carrying him. Create your own line...maybe sitting on your lap is okay or standing hugs. Have a safe place for him to fuss. Let him know you like him and want to be with him and when he's all done fussing he can leave that spot and come be with you. Maybe even have something fun to do then. If he fusses and follows you tell him calmly that he is disturbing people by his fussing and put him in his safe place. Let him know you love him and you'll be waiting for him when he's done. If necessary explain why he can't do whatever he's doing.

 

I would create more opportunities for him to have responsibility. He sounds like my son, he *craved* responsibility. Because of his age (and certain immaturities) I didn't understand that need. Give him more to do, more ways to be challenged and successful. Lots of verbal encouragement and praise.

 

Be structured.

Be logical (calmly explain the reasoning behind rules).

Give many opportunities for responsibility.

Create a safe place to express frustration.

Create positive feedback to encourage him to stop his whining and fussing and be more mature and responsible.

Know this all takes time and consistency to overcome.

[BrookValley.]

I know it is frustrating and not funny at all, but I had to post just to say that I got a little giggle from your post--in a good way--because I thought for sure my son was the only child on the planet who comes completely and ridiculously unglued if he doesn't get to choose which parent drives. :001_huh: I mean, really? I've never been able to wrap my head around that one. On a rational level, I understand the need to have control over his environment. But in the moment, I find it really absurd.

 

FWIW, my son is nearly 5 now, and it has gotten better. It seems to have helped to give him lots of little choices when it's acceptable to me to give him choices, even if I think they are silly at the time. It has also helped to have a very matter-of-fact, no nonsense attitude with a lot of things. I simply don't respond to tantrums, whining, screaming, or rudeness, and I tell him that exactly. If he melts down, I calmly tell him that I will gladly help him when I can understand him, but he needs to speak in a normal voice because my ears don't understand [fill in blank: whining, crying, etc.] or that I only respond when I am spoken to politely. Repeat. Ad nauseum. I try to be polite about it myself, though some days I have a much harder time with that. ;)

[swellmomma]

:grouphug:

 

It definitely sounds less like sensory issues and more liked spoiled issues. THere is no way I would pick him up and carry him a) without him asking politely and b) some darn well wrong with his legs.

 

The problem right now is deciphering what is sensory and what is spoiled because it becomes a character issue. Having certian jammies is likely sensory, dropping your phone because you didn't pick him up is spoiled. And honestly regardless if it is sensory or not he is still having tantrums that need to be addressed. It doesn't sound like these are meltdowns, though I could be wrong since I am not there. But what I am reading is that he tantrums because he is not getting his way, and you let him get away with it, so he keeps doing it. And yes even kids with sensory issues can and do have normal temper tantrums.

 

Before I am accused of not getting it, I do. I really do and I know that I let my ds get away with far too much because I thought it was his "issues" and as he got older and I learned my mistake I also learned it is far harder to retrain them when older than to nip when small even if they have sensory issues.

 

Sensory issues does not mean he gets to rule the roost and right now that is exactly what he is doing.

[Mynyel]

Thank you for all the responses.

 

I appreciate everything that everyone has written!

 

@BrookValley Right after I posted we had to take the van to get fixed. He specifically said he wanted dad to drive the civic while I drive the van :001_huh:. I "won" that one. I drove the civic.

 

Now as for being spoiled. I agree that is probably part of it! However it is hard to break the cycle when he... literally... disrupts the whole house! I don't know how long I am to let him wail and carry on (We have dubbed it wailing and gnashing of teeth:D). 1 hour? 2 hours? 3? How long is "abuse" and how long is discipline.

 

Should I start small? Correct one behavior issue at a time? I don't know that I could do them all at once. I would be *exhausting*.

[swellmomma]

Thank you for all the responses.

 

I appreciate everything that everyone has written!

 

@BrookValley Right after I posted we had to take the van to get fixed. He specifically said he wanted dad to drive the civic while I drive the van :001_huh:. I "won" that one. I drove the civic.

 

Now as for being spoiled. I agree that is probably part of it! However it is hard to break the cycle when he... literally... disrupts the whole house! I don't know how long I am to let him wail and carry on (We have dubbed it wailing and gnashing of teeth:D). 1 hour? 2 hours? 3? How long is "abuse" and how long is discipline.

 

Should I start small? Correct one behavior issue at a time? I don't know that I could do them all at once. I would be *exhausting*.

 

Absolutely. I would start with the carrying him issue, but that is just me. If he wants to be carried to bed he needs to ask politely and let you finishe what you need to do in your routine. Though by the end of the day that might been too much to handle for both of you as a starting point so maybe start with your cell phone not in his room. It is not his, regardless of whether or not he freaks out he has proven he can't have it in there. So I would start with moving that else where and timing him out for every tantrum related to it. If he stops the tanrum even for the time ti takes to take a breath take him off time out with words like "I am so glad you decided to stop crying and join us", if he starts again he goes back on time out. Wash. rinse. repeat. Then on to the next once the call phone issue no longer exists.

[ssavings]

:grouphug:

 

The problem right now is deciphering what is sensory and what is spoiled because it becomes a character issue. Having certian jammies is likely sensory, dropping your phone because you didn't pick him up is spoiled. And honestly regardless if it is sensory or not he is still having tantrums that need to be addressed. It doesn't sound like these are meltdowns, though I could be wrong since I am not there. But what I am reading is that he tantrums because he is not getting his way, and you let him get away with it, so he keeps doing it. And yes even kids with sensory issues can and do have normal temper tantrums.

 

Before I am accused of not getting it, I do. I really do and I know that I let my ds get away with far too much because I thought it was his "issues" and as he got older and I learned my mistake I also learned it is far harder to retrain them when older than to nip when small even if they have sensory issues.

 

Sensory issues does not mean he gets to rule the roost and right now that is exactly what he is doing.

 

Yes, this. My DS4 has a sensory disorder and OCD. It wasn't until our OT pointed it out to me that I realized that I was making a mistake - there IS a difference between a meltdown and a temper tantrum.

 

We've enacted basic ground rules, which are, slowly, coming along. Essentially, we're establishing that, while our entire family loves him and is devoted to helping him, he must treat us with basic respect. For example, he cannot scream at us in anger if he doesn't get his way. He cannot demand or destroy someone else's property.

 

This is really allowing us to focus on the sensory and OCD issues. As we gently correct the behavorial issues, we're able to address more clearly the sensory/OCD stuff.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thank you for all the responses.

 

I appreciate everything that everyone has written!

 

@BrookValley Right after I posted we had to take the van to get fixed. He specifically said he wanted dad to drive the civic while I drive the van :001_huh:. I "won" that one. I drove the civic.

 

Now as for being spoiled. I agree that is probably part of it! However it is hard to break the cycle when he... literally... disrupts the whole house! I don't know how long I am to let him wail and carry on (We have dubbed it wailing and gnashing of teeth:D). 1 hour? 2 hours? 3? How long is "abuse" and how long is discipline.

 

Should I start small? Correct one behavior issue at a time? I don't know that I could do them all at once. I would be *exhausting*.

 

You can only work on one thing at a time! Pick whatever is the most disrupting and slowly work on it.

 

I use a picture schedule for my son. There are plenty of days that he doesn't *need* to follow it, like today the kids are at the park and he's ok with that. Other days, however, I have to be careful how and what I've planned because we're following every single little thing on there!

 

Some things I let go, like his bedtime routine. I have no desire to rock the boat here. One day I'll work on his routine obsession, but not yet (at least for bedtime).

 

I also use a lot of If-Then statements, When-Then, First-Then, etc. If you curse, then you will clean the toilet. When you finish handwriting, then you can play with legos. First we're going to x store, then to the park.

 

Has he really ever screamed for 2+ hours? Our max temper tantrum was 3 hours 15 minutes. If these are temper tantrums, you must ignore them. If you give in at the 2 hour mark, you can be sure that next time, he'll go AT LEAST 2 hours. If you stand your ground, it will die down.

 

If the OT you saw wasn't any help, then you saw the wrong one! OTs can be amazing people.

 

The first thing you need to do is uncover the reason behind the behavior you're going to work on.

[deacongirl]

I have a different perspective. Maybe for whatever reason this kid has a legitimate emotional need (he is only 3!) to be carried to bed or out in the morning when he is still tired. I like the book Hold on to Your Kids on issues like this. Maybe by meeting the need right away he will become LESS clingy and whiny.

 

I also like the book Transforming the Difficult Child. Lots of very practical immeditely useful stuff.

[happyhomemaker]

Thank you for all the responses.

 

I appreciate everything that everyone has written!

 

@BrookValley Right after I posted we had to take the van to get fixed. He specifically said he wanted dad to drive the civic while I drive the van :001_huh:. I "won" that one. I drove the civic.

 

Now as for being spoiled. I agree that is probably part of it! However it is hard to break the cycle when he... literally... disrupts the whole house! I don't know how long I am to let him wail and carry on (We have dubbed it wailing and gnashing of teeth:D). 1 hour? 2 hours? 3? How long is "abuse" and how long is discipline.

 

Should I start small? Correct one behavior issue at a time? I don't know that I could do them all at once. I would be *exhausting*.

 

Ds had horrible tantrums and was incredibly particular right around your son's age. I was consistently letting him fuss in a separate room until he was done, but his behavior wasn't really changing (this was over the course of months). My ped told me to calmly put him in a consistent spot and tell him he had to stay there for x min (2 or 3- not long). Then after the allotted time, he told me to tell ds that it was time for him to stop pitching a fit and that if he did not, he would stay in the spot for x more min. Rinse, repeat. I didn't think it would work, but it did. For some reason, when he had power over when to stay or come out, he pitched a fit longer. After a week or so, we were down to just a 3 minute time out over a fit. I think he needed the structure or ritual to help him calm down and become normal again.