Danestress Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 No, no, not this. This is *not* okay in the military community. The only one who got physical is Patrick. It is *absurd* to imply that the brother was dangerous because he *yelled back* at Nakia *after* she *yelled at* him!! Funny, my husband served active duty for 23 years, and while we never received cards in MD, we usually participated in activities to honor vets. I was just thinking of ways she could reach out to her brother. I assumed he might have friends he is remembering that day, you know? Any way, sounds like maybe she should skip that, but any of the other 364 days of the year she could send a card, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hey everybody, I think Nakia gets it. And since it's such a sensitive subject, perhaps if you feel the need to keep discussing it, we could be a bit more forgiving. It's hard for Nakia to explain everything that's going on, all the nuances, etc., I'm sure. Just wanted to say that it's good to offer advice, but let's remember we don't know exactly who's at fault for what and so on, since we weren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 No, no, not this. This is *not* okay in the military community. The only one who got physical is Patrick. It is *absurd* to imply that the brother was dangerous because he *yelled back* at Nakia *after* she *yelled at* him!! That was my poorly expressed point. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 But I say, "Good for Patrick." His response probably did protect you from worse than you got. Good for Patrick. You are blessed to have him. Let your brother go. Which is the greater loss? For Patrick to not have Scott in his life? Or for Scott to not have Patrick? For you, what would the greater loss be? :confused: I admire Nakia, that both of them matter so much. Why is it always so easy to cut someone out of our lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 :iagree: I'm really sad at the assumptions about what the brother would have done. I have to agree. The whole thing is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hey everybody, I think Nakia gets it. And since it's such a sensitive subject, perhaps if you feel the need to keep discussing it, we could be a bit more forgiving. It's hard for Nakia to explain everything that's going on, all the nuances, etc., I'm sure. Just wanted to say that it's good to offer advice, but let's remember we don't know exactly who's at fault for what and so on, since we weren't there. Hear, hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I would be glad if my husband reacted the same if a man (relative or not) got in my face to scream obscenity at me. It seems strange to me that a person can get into the face of a man's wife and NOT expect to be slammed into a wall. I suppose this is where I say, "YMMV". :) Save Nakia from what? Who knows? I shudder to think. That is part of what makes it nerve wracking, it can't be predicted especially when emotion is involved. Nakia describes her husband as a calm man and it speaks volumes that he was sufficiently alarmed that a trusted friend/relative was scary enough to warrant his drastic action. We aren't talking about a drunken lout arguing over football! I don't think, really, anyone is truly to blame, the husband least of all. It was one of those days of a bad chain reaction. If it had not been a relative, most likely Patrick would have been arrested. Scott never put his hands on Nakia. It sucks that he screamed FU at her. Really it is no different then her yelling shut up at him. Patrick took it to a whole new level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The only one who got physical is Patrick. It is *absurd* to imply that the brother was dangerous because he *yelled back* at Nakia *after* she *yelled at* him!! :iagree: I am really confused on why people think Scott was the threat here when he never used physical force. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Funny, my husband served active duty for 23 years, and while we never received cards in MD, we usually participated in activities to honor vets. Sure, there are parades and such sometimes, I agree. I don't know, I just think a card on Memorial Day would be a strange thing for a living veteran/service member. :) I was just thinking of ways she could reach out to her brother. I assumed he might have friends he is remembering that day, you know? Any way, sounds like maybe she should skip that, but any of the other 364 days of the year she could send a card, lol. I agree! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 To address a few things that have been brought up, I have no intention of letting my brother go. Though I know the posters who have recommended this mean well, it's not going to happen as far as I'm concerned. IF my brother chooses not to be a part of our lives, then I can't help that. I hope that the next few months bring healing. Time heals, right? I hope so. There is no one to blame, in my eyes. It is over. Two men I love are at odds, my heart hurts, and I just want peace, so I am praying. I REALLY appreciate those of you who have tried to see the situation for what it is, a very complicated one. It is far from black and white. Your posts have been very helpful. It's impossible to convey over the internet (as Bethany pointed out--thank you!) all the nuances and details of what happened, their personalities, etc. All I know is that I made a bad decision, my brother was vulnerable, possibly suffering from PTSD and made a bad decision, my husband felt in his gut that I was seriously in danger, and he acted on it. I don't like violence. But I TRUST my husband, and like I've said, I know him enough to know he would never have gotten physical if he had not felt I was in danger. If people cannot accept that, then so be it. I can't convince anyone and don't intend to try. And though I hate to think my brother would ever hurt me, it's not impossible, especially because of what he had just been through. There are lots of things I want to type out here, but I don't know how. So many things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom4him Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 :grouphug: These things are difficult. It sounds like he is drinking the poison trying to kill the other person. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 :grouphug: These things are difficult. It sounds like he is drinking the poison trying to kill the other person.:grouphug: :confused::confused::confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Chocolate, we're all reading this second-hand, but I really think that this statement is an overly simplistic interpretation of events. If someone is normally a very easy-going person, reads a situation to be extreme enough to warrant a physical reaction, "immaturity" is not the conclusion I'd jump to. Nakia has shared that her husband felt she was in imminent physical danger. What does maturity have to do with seeking to protect one's spouse? I don't think maturity has anything to do with this situation at all. I think it has to do with introducing a traumatized individual into a highly volatile situation, in terms of triggers (blood, death, high emotion, chaotic activity). I tend to think that Patrick, who has known Scott since he was 5 years old, would be a better judge of what is normal and what is truly aberrant, than outsiders like you and I. Why should he be punished, by being scolded as being immature, for immediately stepping forward to protect his wife? He didn't do anything inappropriate in my opinion. He didn't beat him up. He didn't try to kill him, or something truly crazy like that. He used just enough force to knock Scott out of his zone. Like I said, we may be socialized to ignore instincts, but when a truly dangerous situation presents itself, you rarely go wrong by listening to them. That's not a maturity issue, that's a survival issue. I completely agree! I don't see that Patrick did anything wrong. I think he was protecting his wife. I know my husband would have done the same and I would have been grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) But in this country, the law is that words don't matter but physical actions do, YOu are not allowed for one adult to put their hands on another and body slammed them into a wall-regardless of the words the other is saying. I disagree with this. The law does not preempt someone from defending themselves or their family member, IF they believe they are in imminent physical danger. You don't have to wait for that first punch or stab or gunshot to react. I know some folks are characterizing the brother's actions as "just" saying f-you, but it wasn't just words. There was a menacing approach and physical intimidation and Nakia herself (the only one in this discussion who was there) says: My husband felt like I was in true danger, and I probably was even though, at the time, I really only felt shock and confusion. My husband doesn't go around fighting people or starting trouble. This is probable cause for the husband's physical reaction. Her husband sensed a dangerous situation, trusted his instincts and "protected the gift" of his wife. The politically correct thing might have been to say "Hey buddy, you don't speak to my wife that way," but sometimes pc gets people killed. This is NOT AT ALL the same thing as someone taking offense to another person's words alone and unreasonably escalating it into a physical altercation. If her husband thought his wife was threatened physically, it was already physical. The reason I pointed out that my brother is spoiled and has some growing up to do was just to give background. Maybe I should have left that out so as not to paint him in a bad light. Nakia, I want to suggest another perspective that hasn't been mentioned yet. I agree whole-heartedly that it is very possible that your brother's extreme reaction is due to PTSD or at the very least to being in the post-deployment decompression period. However, it occurs to me that the family dynamic may also come into play here, specifically his role as the much younger kid brother. He may have looked up to your husband when he was just a kid, but now as a grown man, that is a more awkward relationship. He doesn't want to be looked down on as the kid brother, and he certainly doesn't want to put himself in the subordinate role of hero worship toward a man that he would now consider his peer. Even your comments above, true or not, reflect that you see him as someone with growing up to do. He's just come back from serving under difficult circumstances, seeing and doing very grown up manly stuff, and being treated with respect as a man, not a child. Then he returns to his big sister telling him to shut up and his brother in law throwing him against the wall like some naughty kid (not that I think doing such a thing to a kid would ever be justifiable, just speaking from his possible point of view here). Whether or not those actions were justifiable, from his perspective, I can only imagine it would be a big ego blow and extremely frustrating. On the one hand, he is surely thrilled to be home, but on the other, he has to adjust to life where he is no longer respected as he was overseas. It is a dissonance that can cause the pot to boil over. I don't say this to cast blame on you or your husband, as I said above I believe your husband's actions in the situation were justified. But I do think that the more you understand your brother's perspective here, the more likely you are to come to reconciliation. In my opinion, approaching this with your brother in any way that makes him feel like you are patronizing him or disrespecting him as a man and as a peer will only further inflame the issue rather than healing it. If Partrick coulds see it wasn't about *him* but about the commotion, perhpas he could find a place in his heart to talk with your brother and say something like, "It must have been crazy to come home from Afganistahn to a wild party and be around all that drama. I'm sorry I pushed you, man. I went into protection mode over my Nakia. I know sibs fight sometimes. I know you love each other, and I know she misses you. I'm cool with you. I hope you're cool with me." Or however guys talk. :D I think something like this "man to man" conciliatory message above would be key to healing the rift between your husband and your brother. Edited March 22, 2012 by scrappyhappymama found the quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katiejane Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 One other thing. If anyone is seeking help for issues related to PTSD, there is help out there. Please visit Military OneSource or the VA's PTSD website. Here is a PTSD forum that has excellent info. They have a military forum too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.