What do you do when a child won't narrate?

[Cindyz]

What do you do when you have read about a topic (in this case the Earth), and after reading, you ask the child to narrate a sentence and they say they can't do it? Some days he can and does, but it's always a struggle. I have had him read it himself, I have read it for him, I've asked him to pretend like he's going to call Grammy and tell her about what he's learned and what would he say? He just says, "I don't know" and "I can't do it". Also I KNOW that it's NOT that he doesn't know. He very well knows, and later can tell anyone who asks all sorts of things that we read about the Earth today, but when it comes to officially narrating after we have read, it's always a struggle like this. It's SO frustrating. He is 7 and we have been working on narrating with WWE and through various topics since he was 5 years old so this is not something new for him, but this "I can't do it" is getting worse lately. He is in first grade but reads at an almost third grade level (tested by a certified teacher).

 

When he does this, it could waste an entire half hour or forty five minute to come up with ONE sentence. There's arguing, there's crying, there's rereading by him, rereading by us, there's example sentences given, there's example topics given. Still he says, "I can't", or right now the newest is "I can't decide".

 

He will have the natural consequence of home work later to finish up all lessons that are not completed during the usual lesson time, and will not have any screen time for the day as well. He knows these are the consequences, because I feel that this is a case of stubbornness. We do not waver with the consequences. He knows what they are ahead of time and we don't give in later.

 

So what do you think? Is it a case of being stubborn? or....

 

I just don't know what else to do.

 

Thanks!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Cindyz

[MomatHWTK]

Would he draw an illustration instead? Cut a deal so that narration is only required once a week if done without arguing? How's his handwriting, would he rather write out the narration?

 

My oldest has all kinds of behavioral issues that we are working through, so in my instance I really have to pick my battles. He has a hard time communicating why he has a problem with things (expressive language) so I have to work hard to get to the root of the problem before we can even begin to solve it. So... in my case I would definitely have to set the daily battle aside for awhile to see if I could figure out what was really going on with DS. Not sure how I would handle it if I knew it was just a defiance issue.

Edited March 7, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[NotAVampireLvr]

I think it could be developmental. My oldest is the exact same age as yours (November birthday and everything!) and we have similar struggles here. He knows the information because if I ask him to write a sentence or draw a picture or do ANYTHING but narrate he's able to prove he knows the material.

 

If we're really struggling I ask VERY specific questions in an order that would form a narration, write down his answers in narrative form and then have him read it to me again. In our case I think eventually the skill will catch on. When he's confident about a subject he can go on for hours.

[Cindyz]

Would he draw an illustration instead? Cut a deal so that narration is only required once a week if done without arguing? How's his handwriting, would he rather write out the narration?

 

I like the illustration idea, although that can take quite some time too. I ask him to narrate about three times a week. The rest of the time I do copywork or dictation. Also, when he narrates, I write down what he says and then he copies it, and sometimes I will dictate back to him (dictation is new within the last month).

 

Giving him the reward of doing it less for doing it very well when we do it, may be a good option. Honestly, all I want him to do is to try. I don't expect it to be perfect. I just want some effort.

 

Thanks for the reply!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Cindyz

[CupOCoffee]

I have this list of narration starters on my computer, I think it's from a Charlotte Mason site:

 

1.) Tell what you remember about_____________

2.) Tell me the story in your own words.

3.) Wasn't it funny/sad/strange when_________? Tell me what else you remember about that.

4.) Explain how ___________happens/happened. 5.) Describe _______________.

6.) Tell me who we met today. Describe him/her.

7.) Tell me all you can about (a particular setting.)

8.) Tell me all you can about (the reading's time period.)

9.) Tell me everything that happened after ________.

10.) Tell all you know about how ___________ happens.

11.) Tell about a problem in the story and how it was solved/fixed.

12.) Tell everything you would see (in a particular setting.)

13.) Tell me all you know about (a particular character or person)

14.) Who said, "----------" Tell me the story about it.

15.) Why did he/she do _________?"

16.) List the story's events in the order that they happened.

17.) Describe the clues that lead up to ___________.

18.) From the passage/story we read, tell me how to ______.

19.) Tell me how he/she felt after _________ 20.) Describe the narrator.

21.) Describe everything that happened because of________

22.) Tell me all the ways two characters/people/settings from the same story compare.

23.) Tell me all the ways two characters/people/settings from two different stories compare.

24.) Compare this book/story to another of the same style.

25.) Compare this book/story to another by the same author.

26.) Explain how _________ came to be.

27.) Did he/she make the right decision? Tell me why or why not.

28.) Tell me all you know about (time period/character traits/sequence of events.) [This involves a higher level of thinking than the earlier questions similar in nature. The information you are asking for here is to be implied or inferred, not directly stated in the reading. In other words, I might ask, "Tell me all you know about what is happening before the story begins" or "Tell me all you know about Aunt Lucy" even though in the story the only time we "meet" Aunt Lucy is through her letters to the main character.)

29.) Who/what had the most influence on the outcome of the story? Why? How?

30.) Would you want him/her as a friend? Why or why not?

 

 

And then there's:

 

Active Narrations

1.) Draw a picture of a setting/character in the story.

2.) Set up a scene from the story with your blocks/doll house.

3.) Make a playdough ________ (character or setting)

4.) Narrate into a tape recorder/video camera. (This makes a GREAT addition to a portfolio OR grandparents' present.)

5.) Act out a scene/event from the story. 6.) Ask Mama 3 questions about the story. (This is another great one for checking how much they are retaining, because they can't ask questions if they don't know the answers. I also do NOT allow vague questions like "Tell the story in your own words." They have to be specific questions about a character or setting.

7.) Pretend you are a friend of his/hers. What is your part in the story? Act it out.

 

Hope that helps, but if you are already doing this type of thing, hope it helps someone else...

[Haiku]

If you know he can do it, don't engage in the struggle. Ask him three questions, have him answer the questions in complete sentences, and leave it at that. If he says he doesn't know, go back and read the relevant part of the passage, and have him simply repeat, phrase by phrase if necessary, what you read.

 

Sometimes kids know the information but struggle to organize it on their own.

 

Tara

[dirty ethel rackham]

I would ask direct questions and have him answer them in a complete sentence. He may have difficulty boiling it all down to a sentence or tow. My oldest struggled because he had too much in head and couldn't express it all, so he gave up. Asking questions helped.

Have you seen the SOTW activitiy guides. SWB has excellent questions on each chapter to help children who struggle with narrations. He's only 7, so have faith.

[TXMomof4]

I would ask direct questions and have him answer them in a complete sentence. He may have difficulty boiling it all down to a sentence or tow. My oldest struggled because he had too much in head and couldn't express it all, so he gave up. Asking questions helped.

Have you seen the SOTW activitiy guides. SWB has excellent questions on each chapter to help children who struggle with narrations. He's only 7, so have faith.

 

:iagree: DD is 8 but still has a very hard time deciding what's important/what's not and she wants to be *right*. The result can be ugly.

[J-rap]

Perhaps the question seems too broad. I'd maybe break it down to more specific questions for awhile. However, I'd keep working at the narration. I think I'd put together four or so sentences that he could read and choose from. Only one of them would be a good narration, and he would have to choose the sentence that best narrates the story or unit.

[Spock]

 

When he does this, it could waste an entire half hour or forty five minute to come up with ONE sentence. There's arguing, there's crying, there's rereading by him, rereading by us, there's example sentences given, there's example topics given. Still he says, "I can't", or right now the newest is "I can't decide".

 

 

Thanks!

 

The "I can't decide" comment makes me think that a CM style narration might work better for now. With the CM style, the child tells everything they remember about the passage/story, rather than trying to summarize it into 1-3 sentences. This would eliminate the struggle to choose only one thing to say.

 

If you wish, you could ask for a shorter 1-2 sentence comment about "What do you think the most important part of the story/passage was?" after the longer narration has been given.

 

Alternatively, sometimes a child just isn't sure what is expected in a narration. For these children, it often helps to narrate the passage yourself to give an example. (Of course, if you are going to do this, you need to break the passage up into sections to make sure the child has a chance to narrate as well.)

 

Young children also often do better narrating after each paragraph or so, rather than at the end of the whole section.

[KungFuPanda]

What do you do when you have read about a topic (in this case the Earth), and after reading, you ask the child to narrate a sentence and they say they can't do it? Some days he can and does, but it's always a struggle. I have had him read it himself, I have read it for him, I've asked him to pretend like he's going to call Grammy and tell her about what he's learned and what would he say? He just says, "I don't know" and "I can't do it". Also I KNOW that it's NOT that he doesn't know. He very well knows, and later can tell anyone who asks all sorts of things that we read about the Earth today, but when it comes to officially narrating after we have read, it's always a struggle like this. It's SO frustrating. He is 7 and we have been working on narrating with WWE and through various topics since he was 5 years old so this is not something new for him, but this "I can't do it" is getting worse lately. He is in first grade but reads at an almost third grade level (tested by a certified teacher).

 

When he does this, it could waste an entire half hour or forty five minute to come up with ONE sentence. There's arguing, there's crying, there's rereading by him, rereading by us, there's example sentences given, there's example topics given. Still he says, "I can't", or right now the newest is "I can't decide".

 

He will have the natural consequence of home work later to finish up all lessons that are not completed during the usual lesson time, and will not have any screen time for the day as well. He knows these are the consequences, because I feel that this is a case of stubbornness. We do not waver with the consequences. He knows what they are ahead of time and we don't give in later.

 

So what do you think? Is it a case of being stubborn? or....

 

I just don't know what else to do.

 

Thanks!

 

We just had the child tell Daddy what he learned at the dinner table. Good enough for me :D. For history narratives, we often acted out the story with little people. I was lax with narratives. If they could retell event I called it a win.

[petepie2]

What do you do when you have read about a topic (in this case the Earth), and after reading, you ask the child to narrate a sentence and they say they can't do it? Some days he can and does, but it's always a struggle. I have had him read it himself, I have read it for him, I've asked him to pretend like he's going to call Grammy and tell her about what he's learned and what would he say? He just says, "I don't know" and "I can't do it". Also I KNOW that it's NOT that he doesn't know. He very well knows, and later can tell anyone who asks all sorts of things that we read about the Earth today, but when it comes to officially narrating after we have read, it's always a struggle like this. It's SO frustrating. He is 7 and we have been working on narrating with WWE and through various topics since he was 5 years old so this is not something new for him, but this "I can't do it" is getting worse lately. He is in first grade but reads at an almost third grade level (tested by a certified teacher).

 

When he does this, it could waste an entire half hour or forty five minute to come up with ONE sentence. There's arguing, there's crying, there's rereading by him, rereading by us, there's example sentences given, there's example topics given. Still he says, "I can't", or right now the newest is "I can't decide".

 

He will have the natural consequence of home work later to finish up all lessons that are not completed during the usual lesson time, and will not have any screen time for the day as well. He knows these are the consequences, because I feel that this is a case of stubbornness. We do not waver with the consequences. He knows what they are ahead of time and we don't give in later.

 

So what do you think? Is it a case of being stubborn? or....

 

I just don't know what else to do.

 

Thanks!

 

My DD7 struggles with narration. It's not that she doesn't understand what she read or even that she doesn't know the details. She knows all the details. She just has trouble condensing the information into a summary form and giving it to me in a coherent way. WWE2 works on giving summaries. (You're in WWE1, right?) In over half the lessons in WWE2 summary questions are given to help them find out what's important in a passage. Towards the end, they're supposed to at least try to give a summary without the summarizing questions. This is probably the most difficult thing my DD has to do every week. And if she's reading a book on her own and I ask her what happened in the chapter she just read, I get blank stares or some incoherent mumblings. It's just a skill that has to be learned.

[HiddenJewel]

Summarizing takes different skills than narration (retelling). I would stick with narration and work on summarizing as the student is ready for that jump in mental ability.

[JudoMom]

I would ask direct questions and have him answer them in a complete sentence. He may have difficulty boiling it all down to a sentence or tow. My oldest struggled because he had too much in head and couldn't express it all, so he gave up. Asking questions helped.

Have you seen the SOTW activitiy guides. SWB has excellent questions on each chapter to help children who struggle with narrations. He's only 7, so have faith.

 

:iagree:

 

On one of the writing mp3s, SWB says after her explanation of how to do narration (I think it was narration, but regardless, they're words of wisdom) something like "And then you're exhausted because you feel like you did all the work. And you did, but that's okay." Be patient with him and model for him. Lead him along, even if you're feeding him words, and it'll all work out.

[Cindyz]

Thank you all so much for the replies. They have given me some new directions.

 

We do use the SOTW activity guide with narration questions (we do all of these orally), and I have used other open ended questions similar to those listed in a previous post. We are toward the end of WWE I.

 

He says he is trying his best, but it just feels like more of a refusal or a discipline issue. However, he only does this with narration. So maybe it is more of a developmental hurdle that he hasn't yet passed. He will do copywork and dictation with no problems. If we are sitting on the couch, he will narrate (not great, but he will at least try). However if we're sitting at the school table and he knows I'm going to write what he says for him to copy, he just freezes.

 

Thank you all again for the wonderful replies and support.

[JudoMom]

Thank you all so much for the replies. They have given me some new directions.

 

We do use the SOTW activity guide with narration questions (we do all of these orally), and I have used other open ended questions similar to those listed in a previous post. We are toward the end of WWE I.

 

He says he is trying his best, but it just feels like more of a refusal or a discipline issue. However, he only does this with narration. So maybe it is more of a developmental hurdle that he hasn't yet passed. He will do copywork and dictation with no problems. If we are sitting on the couch, he will narrate (not great, but he will at least try). However if we're sitting at the school table and he knows I'm going to write what he says for him to copy, he just freezes.

 

Thank you all again for the wonderful replies and support.

 

Alphabet Pam/SFSOM Pam (if you remember her) once told me when my oldest was about your ds's age that "They just want to please you". This has stuck with me, and for the most part it's been true. What seems so easy and doable to us can dawnting and undoable to a little boy. I'd just keep smiling and take baby steps on this one--he'll get there :grouphug:!

[Cindyz]

Alphabet Pam/SFSOM Pam (if you remember her) once told me when my oldest was about your ds's age that "They just want to please you". This has stuck with me, and for the most part it's been true. What seems so easy and doable to us can dawnting and undoable to a little boy. I'd just keep smiling and take baby steps on this one--he'll get there :grouphug:!

 

Good advice. Thank you. :)

[MomatHWTK]

However if we're sitting at the school table and he knows I'm going to write what he says for him to copy, he just freezes.

 

 

 

You mentioned that this step is new, right? Maybe he has some issue with writing what he has narrated?