Work innapropriateness: sexual harrassment/violence. Discussion

[aggieamy]

A couple of thoughts:

 

If you got an accurate version of the story, I don't think what happened was sexual harassment. Sure, women might use laughter to cover their nervousness, but if a woman is laughing and playing along, how can she turn around and say she was harassed. If she says no or stop or just doesn't laugh at a guy's antics to send a message that she's not amused, but the guy continues on anyway, that's harassment.

 

I've only been out of the heels and ties work force for about two years now and have taken many of those sensivity training courses. It's not like how it used to be. A woman doesn't have to say stop for it to be harassment. It just has to be inappropriate. I've worked at small and medium sized companies and taken a course at all of them. There's lots of information out there on what not to do and this guy was at best an idiot to cut her hair.

 

We also don't know what he said when that happened. Did he mention that she'd look cuter with short hair and then cut it? That would make a huge difference in the situation. We just don't know. Regardless though he was in the wrong. You don't set a hand on someone in the workplace like that.

 

ETA: Of the three places I've worked we were all given two 15 minute breaks through the day and being social was encouraged. That doesn't mean we sat around chatting all day but when I dropped papers off with John or Lisa to lookover, I'd ask how their kids were or talk about summer vacations we had planned for five minutes. People that like their coworkers generally stay with the company.

Edited February 29, 2012 by aggieamy

[curlylocks]

Maybe it is the type of business that I was in...we were encouraged to know the people we worked with, but it NEVER would have progressed to the level the OP describes.

 

I'm not completely anti-social...when I worked at the bank, we celebrated people's birthdays, new babies, retirement, etc. but it was done OUTSIDE of the work day.

[curlylocks]

You don't set a hand on someone in the workplace like that.

 

 

You don't set a hand on someone ANYWHERE like that...

 

I'm out...:auto:

[LizzyBee]

I want to work where they give foot massages (by professionals that I don't work with).

 

My company brought in someone to do 15 minute shoulder massages once. I wish they'd do that more often! :001_smile: We're having a bowling outing next month on a Monday afternoon.

 

I have a friend whose company pays for the employees to break into teams and cook at work. We're talking gourmet, not down home cooking, too. The same company rents a movie theater 4 times a month, too, on Saturday mornings. They show two movies - one that is appropriate for kids and one that's not. The cooking thing is on work time, but the family movie day is not.

Edited February 29, 2012 by LizzyBee

[Slipper]

Cutting her hair moved their 'play' to a different level. I can see joking around with a person, but once hair is cut, that's permanent. And I can't imagine ANY female would want their hair cut. Of course, my perception is that he didn't give her a haircut, he cut a chunk of hair. That's over-stepping boundaries.

[Catwoman]

Maybe it is the type of business that I was in...we were encouraged to know the people we worked with, but it NEVER would have progressed to the level the OP describes.

 

:iagree:

 

I think most of us would draw the Line of Inappropriateness way before the "oops, I cut your hair" stage. :D That is just odd, and it's too bad we'll never know the whole story.

[LizzyBee]

I've only been out of the heels and ties work force for about two years now and have taken many of those sensivity training courses. It's not like how it used to be. A woman doesn't have to say stop for it to be harassment. It just has to be inappropriate. I've worked at small and medium sized companies and taken a course at all of them. There's lots of information out there on what not to do and this guy was at best an idiot to cut her hair.

 

We also don't know what he said when that happened. Did he mention that she'd look cuter with short hair and then cut it? That would make a huge difference in the situation. We just don't know. Regardless though he was in the wrong. You don't set a hand on someone in the workplace like that.

 

ETA: Of the three places I've worked we were all given two 15 minute breaks through the day and being social was encouraged. That doesn't mean we sat around chatting all day but when I dropped papers off with John or Lisa to lookover, I'd ask how their kids were or talk about summer vacations we had planned for five minutes. People that like their coworkers generally stay with the company.

 

That may be defined as harassment in today's pc environment, but I still don't agree that it necessarily is. The haircut thing is just flat out bizarre in any context, though. I wouldn't think an adult would need sensitivity training to know that you don't cut someone else's hair. :tongue_smilie:

[aggieamy]

I've only been out of the heels and ties work force for about two years now and have taken many of those sensivity training courses. It's not like how it used to be. A woman doesn't have to say stop for it to be harassment. It just has to be inappropriate. I've worked at small and medium sized companies and taken a course at all of them. There's lots of information out there on what not to do and this guy was at best an idiot to cut her hair.

 

We also don't know what he said when that happened. Did he mention that she'd look cuter with short hair and then cut it? That would make a huge difference in the situation. We just don't know. Regardless though he was in the wrong. You don't set a hand on someone in the workplace like that.

 

ETA: Of the three places I've worked we were all given two 15 minute breaks through the day and being social was encouraged. That doesn't mean we sat around chatting all day but when I dropped papers off with John or Lisa to lookover, I'd ask how their kids were or talk about summer vacations we had planned for five minutes. People that like their coworkers generally stay with the company.

 

That may be defined as harassment in today's pc environment, but I still don't agree that it necessarily is. The haircut thing is just flat out bizarre in any context, though. I wouldn't think an adult would need sensitivity training to know that you don't cut someone else's hair. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't think it's just politically correct. If someone is making inappropriate comment in the workplace then it's inappropriate. It's not dependent on someone calling the person out. If an executive tells the intern how seeing her in a skirt is the highlight of his day, that's inappropriate. She shouldn't have to tell him to stop. She's in her rights to say nothing to him and then walk down to HR and let them know about it.

[LizzyBee]

I don't think it's just politically correct. If someone is making inappropriate comment in the workplace then it's inappropriate. It's not dependent on someone calling the person out. If an executive tells the intern how seeing her in a skirt is the highlight of his day, that's inappropriate. She shouldn't have to tell him to stop. She's in her rights to say nothing to him and then walk down to HR and let them know about it.

 

I think in many instances, "inappropriate" is not so clear cut, though, and what is or isn't harassment is sometimes taken to an illogical extreme. OTOH, I have worked in a place that was steeped in blatant sexual overtones (back in the 80's), and I am certainly glad that there is more awareness and less tolerance for that sort of thing.

[nono]

The terminology we were trained with was hostile work environment. That is under which sexual harassment generally falls. Anyplace where one can goof around to the point of cutting someone's hair is creating a "hostile work environment." The same would be if someone cut someone's tie off. It's hostile. It's not celebrating birthdays or chatting for a few minutes. "Playing around" long enough to have a hair cut occur, well, that's where I assume that there's too much time playing to escalate to that and not enough work happening. Alternately, if the guy did it when they were just in a couple minutes exchange, well, that's icky, still hostile, but possibly not wasting the company's time. :tongue_smilie:

 

The woman may not have pressed for the firing. In the last place I worked, that does not have to occur. If a superior found out about something like this, he/she was bound to take action, even if the person receiving the cut didn't complain. It's to alleviate the hostile work environment.

Edited March 1, 2012 by nono

[elegantlion]

Well I do have to agree that haircuts shouldn't take place during company time. :D

 

I want to work where they give foot massages (by professionals that I don't work with).

 

We have massages at work one time too. We had to pay, but it was on company time. They were chair back massages, I feel relaxed just thinking about it. Morale was at an all time high that week.

 

My contractor dh charged by the job, not by the hour. What you never saw was all the hours and work he put in before he even got to your house. Phone calls, lumber yard runs, pulling permits, paperwork, paperwork, and more paperwork. Yeah, sometimes people who work physically hard take breaks so they don't pass out on your job.

 

Sometimes people who work in an office actually take social breaks (*gasp* You can socialize at work!) so they get to know one another. It creates community and a sense of belonging (although generally there are no scissors involved*). Sometimes people may be done with their workload for the day and can't leave until a certain time. Sometimes salesman like to make friends with a secretary, although again scissors are not usually involved, so they get treated well over the phone or in person.

 

 

I had people bring me flowers and cards and food when I had my cancer tx. I worked in a large office, there was no general announcement about my health, although they would have, but I asked them not to. People that knew I was gone knew why because I had told them during my working hours. Yup, sharing my personal life. We spent most of the day with the phone plastered to our ears talking to insurance agents, so it was nice to just hear about somebodies dog or kid for five minutes every once in a while.

[gardenmom5]

Interesting. What is it about salespeople? I know I'm making a total generalization here, but they are the rowdiest bunch at any job I've had (or DH has had) where there was a sales department. DH often goes to the company social events and the few others that tend to go regularly are the sales guys and some of the stories my husband tells me about them!

 

to be successful at sales (and I"m talking big ticket price sales), they have to be able to put on a "show" to entice a buyer. they have to be outgoing, etc. Many will get invovled in what some would perceive as rowdy/rambunctious behavior to entice a "jovial" mood in the customer so they customer will be more likely to spend more money. they are constantly living on the edge of rl and performance.

 

I think the salesman sounds like an idiot at best.

 

eta: I've head salesman are the easiest group to sell to - because they get hyper in their own sales performance. I know dh is an easier sale than me - I can be very cold. salesmen generally hate me.

[Catwoman]

I think in many instances, "inappropriate" is not so clear cut, though, and what is or isn't harassment is sometimes taken to an illogical extreme. OTOH, I have worked in a place that was steeped in blatant sexual overtones (back in the 80's), and I am certainly glad that there is more awareness and less tolerance for that sort of thing.

 

I remember the "old days," too, but in all honesty, I think things have gone so far to the other extreme now, that the whole sexual harassment issue has gotten ridiculously out of hand. People can't even innocently flirt a little any more, without fear that they might be charged with harassment and end up losing their jobs.