Sue G in PA Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 After much thought and prayer, we have decided NOT to use MFW US1 next year for dd15. It's not that we don't LOVE MFW, but we had to cut costs somewhere. It was just too much. Ds13 will be in 9th grade next year and is finishing up HOD RtR. He does not want to continue with HOD...just not a good "fit" for him. I am considering using AAH1 for him and dd15 next year and using the suggestions in the book to "beef it up" for high school. I wondered if anyone here has done this? I posted on the AAH Yahoo group but didn't get a decent response. I plan to add either Lightning Literature American or LLATL American (most likely LL for dd15 and LLATL for ds13) and continue for R&S English to make up the English component. I just wonder if the History will be enough in AAH...and the assignments, etc. I see that there is a test/quiz supplement available for high school students. I guess I'm just wondering if others have used this successfully with high school students? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 We used it last year, we did book one the first semester, and book two the second semester. Dd also did the activity books and some of the high school questions and essays (it was too much to do all of them, maybe with a whole year you would have time to do more). It did move a little fast doing both books, doing one book will give you time to read the books suggested in the teacher's book. It was what I would call basic, but adequate. Dd was diagnosed with vision issues after we completed AAH, now I know why she picked it..... large print and not many distractions on the page. Other American history texts that were in the running were Notgrass, BJU and Lifepak (Alpha Omega). Because dd couldn't read quickly, she wanted a textbook. Ds used Beautiful Feet (cut back to one year) along with Hakim's History of US (dd read Hakim's series in the 8th grade). It was a great fit for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thanks, Susan. My plan is to use each volume for 1 year. AAH 1 for one year and AAH2 for the next, pairing it with Under God for government the first year and an economics course the second year. My dd is an excellent and avid reader. It doesn't bother her at all. She enjoys it. History, however, isn't her "thing" and she really hated American History specifically...don't ask me why. In 5th grade, she used Hakim's books as part of K12's History. Ds13, otoh, doesn't like to read at all. I think AAH will be a good fit for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauracolumbus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 We're doing 1 and 2 this year in 8th grade along with the TC dvd US History. The TC dvd is amazing. I wish I could spread the course out over two years to do a better job of pairing the Am. Lit with it. There's so much lit to go along, I could easily see it being a hs course w/a little beefing up. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What else are you planning to supplement AAH with to "beef it up" more? I'm seriously considering a similar plan. Have you considered BJU's American History? I can get the TM and student text at a very reasonable price so I'm wondering if that is also a good option. Have you compared AAH with BJU's high school US History?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What else are you planning to supplement AAH with to "beef it up" more? I'm seriously considering a similar plan. Have you considered BJU's American History? I can get the TM and student text at a very reasonable price so I'm wondering if that is also a good option. Have you compared AAH with BJU's high school US History?? I have. BJU has way more, WAY more. (And an obvious bias). So much more, I felt that it was in what we call "fact cram" category. I appreciated how AAH cut things back and still had decent coverage of American History. If you get too many facts in a textbook, you tend to feel snowballed pretty quickly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 BJU can certainly be overwhelming in their material. That is why I do not use their biology or life science (others love it, I know). Your point is well taken, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Somebody please humor me...what is AAH please? I know it, I just can't figure it out. :confused: :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 All American History, Bright Ideas Press Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Aah. Thank you. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I believe that MFW US1 uses the BJU text as the "spine". I totally agree with the "fact cram". I'm afraid it will go in one ear (eye) and then fall right back out again after test time. I haven't received my AAH yet, but I am looking forward to looking it over and seeing for myself if I think it would be "enough". I have also emailed Maggie Hogan of BIP (she is a good friend of mine) to ask her advice and am waiting on her response. I will post it when I do...I'm sure she will have great ideas. I would much rather my children learn a LOT about fewer people/events in American History (depth) than cram a lot of facts into their heads just to say we did (breadth). That's just my opinion for what works best for us. I do like how Lightning Lit American corresponds very nicely with AAH and I think that will complement it very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I did email Maggie when I was doing the books, and she had great ideas. She said we were doing too much to add all of the high school component. She was right, in her words, that was "killer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamajo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I would much rather my children learn a LOT about fewer people/events in American History (depth) than cram a lot of facts into their heads just to say we did (breadth). That's just my opinion for what works best for us. I do like how Lightning Lit American corresponds very nicely with AAH and I think that will complement it very well. :iagree: I'll be waiting on your post about the add'l ideas given to you by the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'll be waiting on your post about the add'l ideas given to you by the author. Me, too! We used AAH for 7th/8th and I really liked it. Knowing it pairs well with Lightning Lit makes me lean more toward doing AAH again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 :iagree: I'll be waiting on your post about the add'l ideas given to you by the author. :iagree:me 3!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 answered my own question - sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have both AAH and BJU, and I don't consider them even remotely comparable. I don't think that AAH is nearly enough to be a college prep high school course, but I admit that I have not thoroughly researched the extra reading suggestions to see whether they fill in to that extent. Friends of mine teaching American history in ninth grade are using "America: The Last Best Hope" as their spine, and although somewhat biased, it is more meaty than AAH or BJU and very usable. BJU struck me as extremely biased, to the extent that I didn't think I could even remotely compensate for it. In fact, I would not have bought it, but ran across it free at a give away and picked it up to look over--that's the only reason I have it. It is high school level, but I would NOT recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have both AAH and BJU, and I don't consider them even remotely comparable. I don't think that AAH is nearly enough to be a college prep high school course, but I admit that I have not thoroughly researched the extra reading suggestions to see whether they fill in to that extent. This was my thought too. After viewing my older boys college texts I really wonder if one isn't doing their student a disservice by using such easy reads like AAH for high school credit. Not that the info in AAH isn't interesting, but, gosh, I don't know... College textbooks are HARD, fact crammed and wordy. High school is preparation for college. Friends of mine teaching American history in ninth grade are using "America: The Last Best Hope" as their spine, and although somewhat biased, it is more meaty than AAH or BJU and very usable. BJU struck me as extremely biased, to the extent that I didn't think I could even remotely compensate for it. In fact, I would not have bought it, but ran across it free at a give away and picked it up to look over--that's the only reason I have it. It is high school level, but I would NOT recommend it. I just got back from reading an online sample chapter of BJU's text. I found it very interesting, and not at all "fact cram". :confused: If you want biased "fact cram" see A Beka's high school history. Ack! I personally think any history text one uses will be biased. I think ones tolerance level will depend on which bias you, the reader, are. ;) I think its unfair to say you do "NOT recommend" a book because of bias, unless one tells what bias one is. BJU is decidedly and unashamedly Protestant Christian in nature. If you are Catholic, Mormon, JW, Muslim, etc., you may, or may not, like it's voice. My experience with their history texts though have been, what I see, as a balanced view of the facts. Perhaps I am wrong. It's been known to happen. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Part of the bias is what is picked for the book (and what is left out). :) And, what the questions are (and again, aren't). I hated history when I was in school. I crammed the facts into my head right before the test, took the test, then forgot most of it. What I like is that AAH has a good representation of US History and it is a reasonable amount of work. The reading is backed up in the workbook. Maybe it is "easier" but it will be remembered. My ds22 (in college and was homeschooled) told me that he forgot every year of history that we did a textbook, and remembered it when we did whole books. Dd isn't as fast a reader as ds, so AAH was a good compromise. Dd read Hakim's series in the 8th grade (and remembered it) so we considered AAH an add on to that. If you think a textbook covers everything, you are mistaken. I've seen books on 10-15 years of history that are 700-900 pages long. So each history book is what the author(s) has chosen to cover. Edited February 2, 2012 by Susan C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 We're doing this! Beginning on February 20th, in fact. DD will begin her 11th grade "year" on that date (we school year round), and she's very excited about getting started with this. She LOVES American history (and so do I), and we spent a lot of time researching our different options.... reading through printed sample lessons, or looking through the books themselves if someone had it to loan out (BJU and AAH), looking at the other components that are scheduled, or can be used, with it, and cost. She made a list of pros and cons, and the pro list was pretty long for AAH. ;) There are a LOT of ideas for beefing it up to h.s. level in the TM. DD wants to do BJU for American Lit, but it may be out of our price range. I'll have to determine whether it is, and if so, then we'll look at other options. I haven't decided yet what to do for Government (officially), but since this is an election year, it should be pretty easy to find enough resources for her to earn her half-credit for Govt. We've already started by having her watch all the debates with us, lots of discussion, research on the Electoral College, the differences between a primary and a caucus, reading WORLD magazine, etc. Our state doesn't do a primary, but does a caucus, so we're planning on taking her over there with us to experience that. I was thinking about getting Under God. I like the looks of "A Noble Experiment" DVDs, too... but not the price. :tongue_smilie: I *really* like the way MFW schedules American over two years, with Govt during the first half and Econ during the second. That makes SENSE. So we're running with that idea, but picking our own resources. We wouldn't have minded the BJU text, and we love the literature choices Marie has scheduled. But dd really preferred AAH for the history spine, and she wants to use a textbook for Lit study for a change. Plus, we do a LOT more Bible around here since changing churches a year and a half ago (this pastor actually gives homework! :lol: ), and she's taking a Biblical Worldview class at church with the other high schoolers. So purchasing MFW just didn't make sense for us for the rest of high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well, I haven't heard from Maggie, yet and I haven't received my AAH in the mail either. I'm grateful for the discussion in this thread as it's giving me some more things to think about. MFW has been a really good fit for my dd the past 2 years. I've seen her grow spiritually by leaps and bounds (to which I credit the Bible portion of MFW). She loves the independence of the guide and how everything is laid out for her. She is a reader. She loves to read...and LOVES Bible. :D When I mentioned possibly going a different route for next year and using AAH and Lightning Lit, her face fell and her eyes got wide. She was NOT happy. So, I went back to MFW and looked at samples of the books...loved what I saw...talked to me dh and decided that if MFW was still a good fit, and it would save me time in planning, that we should go for it. :D Now, I haven't looked at samples of BJU...that might sway my opinion. Not sure. And I haven't got AAH. I might just LOVE that and want to use just that. :lol: It is rather certain, however, that I will use AAH with my 9th grade son. He is not quite the reader that his sister is, is no where NEAR as independent in completing his work, prefers a more straightforward schedule...Do A, now B, next C, and D and whala...Done. :tongue_smilie: He has NOT covered American History AT ALL yet and so AAH will be the perfect fit, along with Lightning Lit American and some components of HOD's Rev to Rev guide (which his brother will be using). I really like the Bible component that Carrie has scheduled as well as the Science. He can read through Under God with dd, complete the Presidential Election Lapbook we have already and call it his 1/2 credit in Government. Anyway, thanks again for all the thoughtful discussion. I so appreciate the wisdom of this Hive. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I personally think any history text one uses will be biased. I think ones tolerance level will depend on which bias you, the reader, are. ;) I think its unfair to say you do "NOT recommend" a book because of bias, unless one tells what bias one is. BJU is decidedly and unashamedly Protestant Christian in nature. If you are Catholic, Mormon, JW, Muslim, etc., you may, or may not, like it's voice. My experience with their history texts though have been, what I see, as a balanced view of the facts. Perhaps I am wrong. It's been known to happen. :D BJU isn't just Protestant Christian. It expresses extremely politically conservative views as historical facts. I have no problem with expressions of opinions, but presenting them as historical truths is biased. I don't have it right in front of me, but I remember reading about Martin Luther King in it and being disappointed in the way that it presented his work--not at the facts but at the authors' negative opinions presented as self-evident truths. I have elsewhere seen criticism of their descriptions of conditions of American slavery as relatively benign and demonstrably inaccurate. I am a very conservative Lutheran Christian, but I think that history should be presented accurately rather than with a biased gloss on it, liberal or conservative. BJU American history does not fit the bill. I occasionally use materials that have a bias--some of them even a Providential one (which I find pretty appalling as it attributes specific acts to God that He does not claim.) But I don't do this lightly or exclusively or with the material serving as the primary spine, and discussions of inaccuracies are always involved--which is a lot of work. One of the things I really like about AAH is that it is Christian-friendly without being biased. It neither writes Christianity out of American history, which is all too common in secular texts and tremendously inaccurate, nor writes Providential conclusions into American history, which is presumptuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 BJU isn't just Protestant Christian. It expresses extremely politically conservative views as historical facts. I have no problem with expressions of opinions, but presenting them as historical truths is biased. I don't have it right in front of me, but I remember reading about Martin Luther King in it and being disappointed in the way that it presented his work--not at the facts but at the authors' negative opinions presented as self-evident truths. I have elsewhere seen criticism of their descriptions of conditions of American slavery as relatively benign and demonstrably inaccurate. I am a very conservative Lutheran Christian, but I think that history should be presented accurately rather than with a biased gloss on it, liberal or conservative. BJU American history does not fit the bill. I occasionally use materials that have a bias--some of them even a Providential one (which I find pretty appalling as it attributes specific acts to God that He does not claim.) But I don't do this lightly or exclusively or with the material serving as the primary spine, and discussions of inaccuracies are always involved--which is a lot of work. One of the things I really like about AAH is that it is Christian-friendly without being biased. It neither writes Christianity out of American history, which is all too common in secular texts and tremendously inaccurate, nor writes Providential conclusions into American history, which is presumptuous. You're biased, too. I am. Everyone is. It's inherent in mankind. Usually one's bias toward history is coming from their theological viewpoint, whether they realize it or not. (And *everyone* has a theological viewpoint.... even atheists.) Theologically, I don't agree completely with BJU, but do agree with them on many things. I (and many others) can use BJU the same way you've used the other resources you mentioned. So I'm not quite sure why your post seems to sound so "heated". :confused: If you don't agree with BJU's viewpoint, then don't use it! Simple as that. Fact is, even a "neutral" viewpoint is biased. A supposed "neutral" position implies that there is no one Truth, OR that we can worship many gods, OR that we all worship the same god, OR.... (insert whatever you want). Well, it's impossible to be completely neutral where religion and history are concerned. We're going to use AAH, but I bet I can find some bias in it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You're biased, too. I am. Everyone is. It's inherent in mankind. Usually one's bias toward history is coming from their theological viewpoint, whether they realize it or not. (And *everyone* has a theological viewpoint.... even atheists.) Theologically, I don't agree completely with BJU, but do agree with them on many things. I (and many others) can use BJU the same way you've used the other resources you mentioned. So I'm not quite sure why your post seems to sound so "heated". :confused: If you don't agree with BJU's viewpoint, then don't use it! Simple as that. Fact is, even a "neutral" viewpoint is biased. A supposed "neutral" position implies that there is no one Truth, OR that we can worship many gods, OR that we all worship the same god, OR.... (insert whatever you want). Well, it's impossible to be completely neutral where religion and history are concerned. We're going to use AAH, but I bet I can find some bias in it. ;) Everyone is full of sin, too, but we don't equate murder with sleeping in on a Saturday (laziness) in its effects. It's a copout just like saying that everyone has a bias is a copout. It is true that there is bias everywhere, but responsible scholarship attempts to distinguish opinion from fact. BJU does not seem to even try. It's unreasonable to equate that with AAH or, for instance, SOTW--both of which have authors that clearly try to present the facts with as little bias as possible. There is a significant difference of degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Everyone is full of sin, too, but we don't equate murder with sleeping in on a Saturday (laziness) in its effects. It's a copout just like saying that everyone has a bias is a copout. It is true that there is bias everywhere, but responsible scholarship attempts to distinguish opinion from fact. BJU does not seem to even try. It's unreasonable to equate that with AAH or, for instance, SOTW--both of which have authors that clearly try to present the facts with as little bias as possible. There is a significant difference of degree. As a Christian who lives by faith, that is a higher priority to me than "responsible scholarship". Regardless, the example you gave (the bolded) is a spiritual application, not a fact of history to be disputed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) BJU isn't just Protestant Christian. It expresses extremely politically conservative views as historical facts. I have no problem with expressions of opinions, but presenting them as historical truths is biased. I don't have it right in front of me, but I remember reading about Martin Luther King in it and being disappointed in the way that it presented his work--not at the facts but at the authors' negative opinions presented as self-evident truths. I have elsewhere seen criticism of their descriptions of conditions of American slavery as relatively benign and demonstrably inaccurate. I am a very conservative Lutheran Christian, but I think that history should be presented accurately rather than with a biased gloss on it, liberal or conservative. BJU American history does not fit the bill. I occasionally use materials that have a bias--some of them even a Providential one (which I find pretty appalling as it attributes specific acts to God that He does not claim.) But I don't do this lightly or exclusively or with the material serving as the primary spine, and discussions of inaccuracies are always involved--which is a lot of work. One of the things I really like about AAH is that it is Christian-friendly without being biased. It neither writes Christianity out of American history, which is all too common in secular texts and tremendously inaccurate, nor writes Providential conclusions into American history, which is presumptuous. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Edited February 3, 2012 by Susan C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 As a Christian who lives by faith, that is a higher priority to me than "responsible scholarship". Naturally. And of course I agree. Regardless, the example you gave (the bolded) is a spiritual application, not a fact of history to be disputed. True but irrelevant to the analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ladies...I certainly did not mean to start such a heated debate about BJU vs. AAH. I've read the first chapter of BJU and was impressed. But that is 1 chapter...certainly not enough to make a valid decision. I have AAH in my hands now and have read the first couple chapters. I am impressed with AAH as well. I think one of the factors for me is that I've used MFW for the past 2 years and have been very impressed with the book choices. I trust Marie's judgement (not knowing her personally but based on the previous 2 years experience with the high school programs). AND, knowing Maggie Hogan personally, I trust her judgement that she would not be publishing and selling a History text with which she had issues. Make sense? :D Isn't it fabulous that there are so many wonderful book choices out there? And, to me, any History text which teaches GOD as the center of history is better than the texts my children would be reading in public school...completely void of any mention of God at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I've looked at BJU and AAH. I'm *very* interested in AAH and was wondering about making it work for both my 15 year old and my 12 year old. You've answered some of my questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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