Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Hello Hive, I have a few questions for those of you who are parenting high-performance athletes. At what age did your child start to need mental training, so they could figure out ways to harness their race-day energy/nerves and channel that into performance? (I'm asking b/c I shared coffee this morning with an experienced paddling mama who was telling me all about "muscle memory" and race-day strategies that her daughter used to become a successful, nationally-ranked paddler. It got me thinking about the mental edge of competing.) Was this coaching based on "age" or "level of competition?" Have any of you sought professional sport psychology coaching? Would you consider sharing the experience with me, from a parenting pov? What are the best resources you've come across for unpackaging the mental aspects of training and racing? Do you have specific authors or bloggers who you follow? Do you know of resources aimed at the younger crowd? I'm thinking parents of swimmers, gymnasts, tennis players, paddlers -- kids that have to learn how to perform under high individual pressure. I'd like to be able to start building some common language in our home around training, performing, pressure, adrenalin . . . so they can start to recognize or become aware of the mental slice of their athletic pursuits. Would you consider private messaging me if you have thoughts or experience about this? Warmly, Tricia Edited January 31, 2012 by Sweetpeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedmom4 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This is a really interesting topic! I really don't have any advice because my son is only 9 and is a level 4 gymnast. Pretty low level at this point but the psychology around sports is something I am interested in. My son's coach is from China and seems to be very knowledgeable about this topic. He made a comment to me that gymnastics is obviously a physical sport but that it's a mental challenge more than a physical one. My son's coach doesn't talk a lot but when he does the boys listen. He seems to understand when to push a boy and when to let them goof off. Burn-out is pretty high in gymnastics at the higher levels. I hope you get some good responses!! God Bless, Elise in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi Elise -- Thanks for popping in on this thread . . . could you do some under-the-rader investigative reporting around your club and find out if other parents are actively reading/thinking about the mental slice. I wonder if mental strategies are more "caught" than "taught" . . . even so, I'd like to educate myself so I can throw out tidbits here and there about coping with the crazy of competing! Warmly, Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'll be watching this too. I have three children in competitive sports. Ds14 is a pitcher. So, while it is a team sport, he really sticks out! Same son rows. Dd6 is a level 4 gymnast. This is an issue I haven't thought about much. I make sure my kids get on teams that have good coaching, first and foremost. One that knows when to push and when to back off. (For example, my dd is the youngest child on her gymnastics team. She is not yet ready for the four hour practices. Luckily her coach understands and allows her to leave 2 - 3 hours in. If she didn't allow this, my dd would quit.) I'm going to keep my eye on this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 If other people are interested, perhaps it doesn't have to be a "message me privately" situation. My kids are not athletic phenoms by any stretch of the imagination . . . I didn't want to give the impression that starting this thread means my kids are cruising at high-speed to the top of the pack. They are exceptionally hard workers and I think mental strategies would give them an edge over their more physically-gifted counterparts. I'm very interested in other people's experiences with high-performance athletes. I really hope some experienced folks will weigh in or at least point us in the right direction! Cheers, Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah, I think Elise is onto something. In thinking back on my coaches from childhood, I don't remember them being big speech-givers, like the movies portray. ;) To this day, folks will comment on my ability to bring out my best performance on race day or any major life event. What I think developed this was basically three factors: 1. Simply the experience of competing and winning and not winning; 2. Coaches seeing the good in each race (Not blowing smoke, but basically a realistic "Here's what we learned today and can do moving forward" debrief); 3. My parents providing a stress-free environment in the 24 hours leading up to an event. In my later high school years, I started reading sports psychology books on my own. :) Still do sometimes! (And, yeah, I still love sports and can put on my "race day hat" when needed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 My 13yo is a level 8 competitive gymnast. Her coach helps her with the mental aspect, but really, she has had her own way of dealing for quite some time. She seemed to instinctively "know" what works for her. We are not allowed to talk about the meet the day of, we do not tell her "have a great meet" or anything like that. She totally goes into her own head. She had her first mental block about doing a difficult move just last week, and I posted about it. I thought her coach was being too hard on her. I was wrong. She competed Saturday, did the series she was having trouble with, and won all-around - not just for her level - she had the highest all-around score for the entire meet. It was a lesson for me in trusting her coaches. I don't think I would engage a psychologist unless my dc was really having trouble with mental readiness for their sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi Mama T -- I lurked your thread about your daughter coming up against that tough sequence and really happy to hear she could perform when it counted. Congrats to her! (I may offend my fellow Canucks with my next statement, so I apologize in advance) . . . our Canadian dynamic is much different than the American way of competing. Clearly, TeamUSA Any Sport knows how to win. Mama T, it seems that your coaches are doing a grand job of teaching the mental slice and you've figured how to keep the family unit stress-free and happy so that competition nerves don't derail the train. Way to go! I have the sense that gymnastics in the USA attracts the very best of coaches. They are highly competitive, well-qualified, I suspect fairly well-compensated for what they bring to the table. What if the sport our kids are involved with doesn't have the same resources in terms of coaching, especially at the state/provincial level? These are coaches who love the sport, but can't make a living off being a coach. If you felt like more was needed in terms of the mental slice, where would you turn for resources? This is the information I'm looking for. Warmly, Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 My boys are nationally ranked in their sport, one is a 5 star, and one a 3 star, but they are never going to play the French Open. I know of a few other parents who have hired mental coaches for their kids - often costing thousands of dollars. Frankly, I have not seen any improvement in their kids. If anything, their results have gotten worse. Imo, I think that the parents do play a role (not always) in how the kids handle the pressure mentally. Just as one example: I have seen parents berate their kid for "blowing a lead." Well, guess what happens next time the child has a lead in a match? How much more unnecessary pressure is he feeling worrying about "blowing another lead?" Soon it becomes a self-fulling prophesy. Fwiw, this is what we have done with our kids to help the mental game: 1. We tell them that it is not about winning, and we back-up these words with our actions after a losing match. We never berate them when they lose. We stress that it is about how hard they practice to improve their game. Practice is the one area that they have total control. 2. We tell them that there is only so much they can control. They can't control whether their opponent is "on fire" during the match. The only aspect that they can control is to play to the best of their abilities. After practicing so hard, they owe themselves that. The mental aspect of any sport is tough. I definitely don't have all the answers. I just know that our approach is working for our kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thanks Nono, for your comments. What Sport Psychology books were you reading back in highschool? Any recent books/articles/blogs about sport psychology cross your path that you'd care to share? Warmly, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Fwiw, this is what we have done with our kids to help the mental game: 1. We tell them that it is not about winning, and we back-up these words with our actions after a losing match. We never berate them when they lose. We stress that it is about how hard they practice to improve their game. Practice is the one area that they have total control. 2. We tell them that there is only so much they can control. They can't control whether their opponent is "on fire" during the match. The only aspect that they can control is to play to the best of their abilities. After practicing so hard, they owe themselves that. The mental aspect of any sport is tough. I definitely don't have all the answers. I just know that our approach is working for our kids. Hi there, Snowbelt Mom -- I really appreciated your comments. Certainly, these are regular conversations in our home as well. We're not bothered about winning at all costs and I believe sport is most beneficial when it comes to character development. Canoe/Kayak as a sport has so many elements which can't be controlled and that is another conversation that surfaces often. This is the information I'm after: "The only aspect that they can control is to play to the best of their abilities. After practicing so hard, they owe themselves that." I couldn't agree with you more -- we chase training for 10 months of the year. It's 5 mornings a week of swimming/running/weight training and 4 afternoons a week. We've reworked our life to accomodate this training and I saw last season that my son had a huge time gap between what he could put down in practice v. race day times. Some races showed 30 - 40 seconds between PB and race day results. When you wrote about playing to the best of their abilities because they've practiced so hard, I completely agree with you. I think some of this is simply age-stage development and learning to compete, but some of it is that my boys get lost in their head on race day. I'm trying to figure out how I can help? It's heartbreaking to know they've put so much energy into training and on race day, for lack of better words, they fall to the pressure. Am I being clear, as I type between math and reading lessons for my little? Warmly, Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Please check out Positive Pushing. It is written by a psychologist who works with a lot of high-performance young athletes, dancers, etc. It is the only book I have ever seen that focuses on the psychological aspects of child athletes. The author's recommendations translate well to any "achievement activity," which is the term he uses in the book, so ballet, gymnastics, chess, academics, whatever, but he developed his approach working with athletes. It is well worth the time and money you will invest in it. Terri (mom to a level 9 gymnast and an intense 11 yo swimmer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Please check out Positive Pushing. It is written by a psychologist who works with a lot of high-performance young athletes, dancers, etc. It is the only book I have ever seen that focuses on the psychological aspects of child athletes. The author's recommendations translate well to any "achievement activity," which is the term he uses in the book, so ballet, gymnastics, chess, academics, whatever, but he developed his approach working with athletes. It is well worth the time and money you will invest in it. Terri (mom to a level 9 gymnast and an intense 11 yo swimmer) Thank you! I just knew somebody would put a solid recommendation on the table! (excited edit to say this book is in our library system and has ZERO holds! :) ) Warmly, Tricia Edited January 31, 2012 by Sweetpeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Imo, I think that the parents do play a role (not always) in how the kids handle the pressure mentally. Just as one example: I have seen parents berate their kid for "blowing a lead." Well, guess what happens next time the child has a lead in a match? How much more unnecessary pressure is he feeling worrying about "blowing another lead?" Soon it becomes a self-fulling prophesy. Fwiw, this is what we have done with our kids to help the mental game: 1. We tell them that it is not about winning, and we back-up these words with our actions after a losing match. We never berate them when they lose. We stress that it is about how hard they practice to improve their game. Practice is the one area that they have total control. 2. We tell them that there is only so much they can control. They can't control whether their opponent is "on fire" during the match. The only aspect that they can control is to play to the best of their abilities. After practicing so hard, they owe themselves that. The mental aspect of any sport is tough. I definitely don't have all the answers. I just know that our approach is working for our kids. :iagree: This is how we have handled raising an athlete. I have seen the opposite and the results tend to be burnout or kids who are doing the sport, not for the love of the sport, but for their parents' approval or lack of disapproval. My oldest son is a very competitive wrestler. My father coached him when he was very young but there came a time when poppop got too serious and started yelling at him after matches so I asked him to not be involved anymore. It just wasn't worth it...ds went out on the mat afraid of angering his poppop and then didn't do his best due to the worry. I took over after that (he was one of the few wrestlers with his mom coaching him...LOL) and I didn't push anything, just provided him with whatever he needed. If he wanted a few weeks off here or there, I let him have off and if he wanted extra practice I did that as well. When he came off the mat, I hugged him whether he won or lost. The next day, if he wanted, we'd watch the recorded match and talk about what might have gone better. We never talked about matches right afterward. Around 8th grade he began to put more of himself into it becoming more serious about the sport and setting his own goals...working out daily, watching video, practicing more, etc... He asked his pop pop to be involved again with the caveat that if he started making it less than fun, it would stop again. His club coach at the time gave him a couple suggestions of books to read on his own to help him with his mental game because he was at the place where he was ready to go to the next level in that aspect as well as the physical aspect. One of the books was "Nice Guys Finish Last" by Leo Durocher and the others I cannot think of the names of but I will ask my ds tonight and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Very interested in this subject, and scoping out the Positive Pushing book now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret in GA Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I got a lot out of Bounce: Mozart, Federer, Picasso, Beckham, and the Science of Success It does touch quite a bit on muscle memory and psychology (especially 'choking'), in addition to delving into the art of practice as the key to success in athletics, academics, and art. I am going to check out Positive Pushing. Sounds like a worthwhile read. Margaret mom to 18 yo dd artist, private school; 15 yo ds soccer player, private school; 12 yo ds soccer player, homeschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Thank you for the Bounce rec. (first in line for the hold!) As I read over this thread, I'm wondering if I may find some of the answers I've been searching for re: excellence with academics. I would never dream of putting sport or performance before relationship (ie: demanding performance) and yet, somehow demanding performance for academics seems . . . well, seems alright in some way. I don't want to walk down that road of jeopardizing relationship for the sake of a great school report. I would love to find ways for my kids to self-motivate. (I know, you're all thinking I live in a world filled with butterflies and cupcakes.) Perhaps these books might do double duty for me. Wouldn't that be efficient reading? Warmly, Tricia Edited January 31, 2012 by Sweetpeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hmm... I guess we qualify. Sort of. We left any psychology to the coaches. We left most things to the coaches. I promised the coaches I would bring them to practice no matter what and as a family, we put that before everything else, pretty much. At home, we supported the coaches in that we emphasized listening politely to the coach and trying to do what the coach says (while still thinking for oneself - you still look both ways when crossing a street even if an adult says you can cross now - that sort of thing). We didn't do this any more than we did for any other adult, though. We emphasized that we didn't care about their performance, only about their behavior. We told them that we had carefully picked a "friendly" coach rather than one who was going to push them but pointed out that their coaches had put an incredible amount of time and effort into them and it behoved them to pay the coach back for all his hard work by competing even the years they didn't want to, and trying to do well in the competitions, even if they didn't care for themselves. My children accepted this, worked hard, and competed whether they felt like it or not. Some years they wanted to compete and do well. Other years they didn't. Coaches here are paid practically nothing. It is a labour of love. None of mine have talked much, but I don't think that is necessary. They spend so much time with their boys that they can say lots without having to say it all at once, if you know what I mean. We left any coaching to the coaches. In our sport, the coaches were athletes themselves and seem to remember clearly what competing is like. It never occurred to us to hire a psychologist. We have been aware that the competition pressure increased as the child grew, but their performance has so very little to do with home life, other than as an absence of things like family dinners, that it would be unlikely to do so. If I had had a child who made himself sick because he didn't do well at a competition, I would have investigated whether the pressure was coming from the child or the coach. If it were external, I would have investigated switching coaches. If it were internal, I would have concluded that the child was not ready for that level of competition and talked to the coach. The coaches we've had have dealt pretty effectively with their high strung boys, encouraging them and getting them to try their best and then comforting them when they don't do as well as they'd hoped. They've occasionally said things to the parents like, "Try to get him to blank." or "Tell him to blank." Sometimes this had to do with unrealistic expectations. In general, mine went into the competitions having been told by their coaches what score they deserved to get if they didn't make any mistakes. I've seen coaches take parents aside and adjust their expectations. (Parental expectations can cause a child to work very, very hard and be very, very hard on himself, but I've also seen it go frightfully wrong when the child grew older.) I've seen the coaches tactfully look the other way when a teenage boy cried and then go comfort them with "next time" after they have recovered themselves a bit. Blood, sweat, and tears isn't just a saying. I've seen the same coach dance around clutching his head as one of my sons made mistake after mistake and then go yell at him when he finished, but both coach and son know that the coach is just upset for my son's sake and that my son isn't going to be unduely upset by the yelling. It isn't in earnest unless it has to do with a safety or health or character issue. In our sport, your coach is coparenting with you, and if the coach isn't somebody you trust to do that, you should find a different coach. My sons watched the other coaches at competitions and knew which ones were "good" and which "bad". They are high strung enough that they knew they would never survive the bad ones, emotionally. Even when they were small, they could tell me this. You have to be really careful. The coach is molding your child's body and character. I think developing a vocabulary is a good idea, but I think you might find that there is already a shared vocabulary between the coach and your child, and that if you want to join the dialogue, you just have to talk to the coach? Maybe? I can see how a mid-to-older teen might be interested in reading about sports psychology, but I'm not sure I would want my children to be that involved with their performance earlier than that - trying hard, wanting to win, trying to be calm and focused for the competition, yes, but beyond that, no. That is our family, though. We weren't trying to raise olympians. For that matter, we weren't trying to raise athletes at all GRIN. We still are surprised that our sons were as competative as they were. I'm not being very helpful, am I. Or supportive of your idea. Maybe that is because in my children's sport, it is very obvious when the athlete is focused and when he is not. It relies enormously on muscle memory and much less on effort. Our coaches have done a super job at teaching my very shy children to get up in front of a crowd and some judges and perform. I have no idea how they did it, other than to tell them they had to do it along with us telling them they had to do it if their coach said they did. I'm sure there is more to it than that, but I think most of it has to do with focus and that is something, as I said earlier, that they have to do during practices as well. Hopefully lots of people from other sports will answer for you. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) http://www.amazon.com/Don-Greene/e/B001KIX8X2/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1 Don Greene has written books that teach musicians and actors how to handle the psychological stress of performing under pressure. If I remember correctly he began his studies with sports and one of his books may even be directed at athletes. Here is his Amazon page. Juilliard lists some of his books as required texts. ETA: I read a little bit more about him and just saw that he is a renowned sports psychologist and a teacher at the Juilliard School. Based on that, I'd recommend his books. (I have requested a couple from ILL at my library.) Edited January 31, 2012 by zaichiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Nan, you are *always* helpful -- your perspective is valuable. If I had the inclination to push myself out of my comfort zone and learn how to "multi-quote" I'd start the process of responding to your lovely response. :) Warmly, Tricia . . . and I just put the Bob Greene book on hold. Thank you for that rec, OP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm not the parent of an athlete, but my husband works in sports and he's said good things about the Positive Coaching Alliance. Their materials are primarily meant for coaches, but some of it might be useful for parents, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Don't think this one will help you but the other book my ds read was "Winning State Wrestling." He carries it around in his wrestling bag and reads parts of it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thanks Nono, for your comments. What Sport Psychology books were you reading back in highschool? Any recent books/articles/blogs about sport psychology cross your path that you'd care to share? Warmly, T Ah, well what I read back then, I don't remember and isn't probably published anymore! I was a competitive athlete in the 70s and early 80s! :tongue_smilie: Now, I read more about the brain/body relationship usually in relation to running, so Matt Fitzgerald is a favorite author. :) Oh, something else I thought of last night. Defining success. I had a great teaching moment with my kids after I ran my first marathon. My kids, husband and best friend chased me around the course to cheer. At the end, as I crossed the finish line and met up with my little ones, they said, almost immediately, "Sorry you didn't win, Mommy!" Which was very cute, but so myopic! I laughed and told them how I had just qualified for the Boston Marathon on my first attempt at the marathon distance, so I might have been the biggest winner of the day! And, the gentleman who crossed the line a couple minutes before me had set the state record for the marathon distance for men age 70+! AND, my younger girlfriend, who came in a few minutes behind me, she came in 3rd in her age group! Anyway, both of my kids came to realize that there are many definitions of success, and now greet me at the end of every race with "I'm sorry you didn't win Mommy" accompanied by this ---> :D !! So, as long as your children's coaches aren't myopic like my little children were, I wouldn't worry much about it. Now, if your children are inclined to read, I do think there's much to be learned from reading on the subject of flow and such, so I wouldn't discourage them from learning more. I would be careful though not to push it. My oldest is just starting to compete (in my old sport!), so I am just starting down this path of parenting a competitive athlete. I personally think if I could attribute the successful life I've had to one thing, I would say it was being involved in sports. So, yeah, overall, I think participating is important. And important to keep it balanced, and not a holy grail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 My dd is a gymnast. Her coaches recently brought Dr. Alison Arnold to the gym to run a seminar, she has a lot of info on her website. The coaches had been using a lot of her ideas already, but I really enjoyed her talk for parents. She works with USA Gymnastics and USA Figure Skating. You can also search her on Youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 My dd is a gymnast. Her coaches recently brought Dr. Alison Arnold to the gym to run a seminar, she has a lot of info on her website. The coaches had been using a lot of her ideas already, but I really enjoyed her talk for parents. She works with USA Gymnastics and USA Figure Skating. You can also search her on Youtube. Hi PiCO -- this blog is exactly what I had in mind when I originally posted. I can't wait to dive into the articles she has listed on her blog. Thank you so much for posting this. I really appreciate it. Warmly, Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpeach Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 When I was searching for the books you all recommended, other suggestions popped up on our library search engine . . . (Blushing) The best book so far is called Sports Psychology for Dummies. Exactly the right amount of information, not too technical, just those first baby steps into understanding game-day stress. Thank you, Hivers, for all of your input. I really appreciated your thoughts. I've got three books plus the one I mentioned above to help me figure out my parenting role as I support our kiddies in their athletic and academic endeavours. Warmly, Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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