Catholic curriculum question

[TracyR]

Just asking an innocent question. But with all the homeschooling curriculum available to day, why have Catholic curriculum companies not made a workbook style curriculum like CLE and Ace?

 

This style fits my family so well. My daughters love to work through the small chunk sized workbooks and it seems to build their confidence.

I've used regular workbook curriculums like BJU, Abeka , Calvert , K12 etc and they just get so frustrated with it all and I get so burnt out from it all.

 

We are using CLE for math and LA and they love it, but I wish I could use it for all subjects. It just works for us. My oldest wants to use the Ace curriculum ( we used it in our former Protestant days) and I just don't know. It would definitely need lots of explaining and weeding out.

 

I'm sure maybe no one knows the answer but I thought I'd ask anyways.

[VA6336]

It's my impression that the younger years of Seton are extremely workbook-y. Couldn't tell you how small or large they are, though, compared to others. Catholic Heritage Curricula does workbook style as well. I've seen a lot of their prek-3rd grade materials and there are many workbooks that don't take long each day to complete.

 

Do the CLE and ACE books only cover say, one topic within a subject each? For example, a CLE math workbook would cover just addition with renaming within 1000? Then a new workbook when they're ready to move on? I'm not familiar with them, so thanks for clarifying what it is you like about them.

[frugalmama]

Catholic Heritage Curricula is great and workbook based for most subjects - we used them until this year and I really really wish I could have continued using them.

[TracyR]

Yes, each workbook teaches certain topics. Christian Light's math and LA are spiral so their math would cover various topics. But ace is Mastery.

 

Anyways for CLE each workbook is about 58-69 pages or so. There are 10 per grade and can cover various topics in one workbook each. There are two quizzes in between , and then at the end the test to see how much they understand of what they learned. Once they are done and the test is corrected, if they score an 80% or more they can move on to the next workbook.

You also have the option of having your child correct their own work should you chose too. So they are responsible for their own work. They have goal charts that they can write down the pages they need to do each day ( which is usually 4 per subject , and depends on the age of the child). But it gives them a visual of what needs to be done, and they aren't always depending on you to tell them what needs to be done.

 

I'm sure this isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it really works for my girls. They love the smaller workbooks, and they love getting a new one when they finish an old one because they can't wait to see what they will be learning next.

 

The thing I like about them is all the instruction is in the workbooks. You don't need teacher manuals ( well except for the 100 level in CLE ). The instructions are there, your children can read them and if they need your help then they can come to you and ask. No need for lesson planning each day. Everything is done for you. No need to drag big heavy books with you. The workbooks for each subject are light and portable. What's not to love for a big family?

 

It seems curriculums like Christian Heritage, Seton and such rely on lesson plans, lots of books and/or teacher manuals to get the lesson plans. We travel a lot so having a lighter load is always a HUGE plus. In the past I've had to lug teacher manuals, big heavy textbooks and chunky workbooks with us. With the Light Units from CLE and the ACE Paces they are great. The kids can grab them and off we go. The price is much cheaper too. You can buy a few workbooks and try them out and if it doesn't work your not out hundreds of dollars either. If I bought a CHC 7th grade level I'm sure it would cost almost as much as the 6th grade level which is almost over $400.00. If I bought CLE's grade level for 7th (for example) I would spend half that.

 

I do like the looks of CHC but to much stuff. I do have the Saint Stories workbook that my 14 yr old likes but everything else when we went over the 7th grade curriculum wasn't interesting to her at all.

You can go to http://www.clp.org and http://www.aceministries.com to see what the workbooks look like and what I mean.

Edited January 27, 2012 by TracyR

[Ellie]

Why should they publish one like ACE or CLE??

 

There are Catholic textbook publishers, but not as many as Protestant ones, and as far as I can tell, most Catholic homeschoolers have not acquired those. Maybe Catholic textbook publishers have not caught up with Protestant publishers such as ABeka and BJUP in realizing what a good market homeschoolers can be.

[VA6336]

Thanks for sharing how those are laid out. I don't know of any Catholic publishers that do it that way.

 

I suppose you could always take the texts you do like and cut the bindings off. Group the pages/units together from the text, workbook and teacher's manual if necessary and spiral or comb bind them. Then, you'd only have to grab the unit you're working on. You could easily put in the tests, quizzes and extra stuff that you might want in to each. Would take some work on your part, but if you did it all in one fell swoop you'd be set for the year.

 

Ellie, I think the OP isn't lamenting the lack of Catholic homeschool curriculum publishers, but that there aren't Catholic versions of that particular style of text/curricula.

 

Good luck, OP, finding what you're looking for.

[cathmom]

Sounds like you should do it! :D

[TracyR]

No. Wasn't complaining about the lack of Catholic homeschooling materials. I'm sure in due time more and more will eventually be available. But what I was talking about was the style of curriculum. Having a curriculum like this with Catholic content instead of having to weed through books to make sure it lines up with our beliefs. I don't mind coming to something that isn't always in line and having that " Ahha , teachable moment." But I don't want a curriculum that teaches about the Reformation through the Protestant view. We're newly Catholic ( 1 yr this Easter) so I want my daughters to learn from a Catholic point of view when it comes to History.

 

I don't have a problem with CLE's math , or LA , or even their reading. But History and Science are two tough ones to line up from a Catholic point of view.

 

I just hope some day that something like this will be made. This style of curriculum really makes life so much smoother. Especially when I deal with having health issues right now. I just don't have the energy or feel well enough most days to do so much hand holding.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Seton has a really nice elementary history from a Catholic point of view.

http://www.setonbooks.com/curriculum.php

[kandty]

No. Wasn't complaining about the lack of Catholic homeschooling materials. I'm sure in due time more and more will eventually be available. But what I was talking about was the style of curriculum. Having a curriculum like this with Catholic content instead of having to weed through books to make sure it lines up with our beliefs. I don't mind coming to something that isn't always in line and having that " Ahha , teachable moment." But I don't want a curriculum that teaches about the Reformation through the Protestant view. We're newly Catholic ( 1 yr this Easter) so I want my daughters to learn from a Catholic point of view when it comes to History.

 

I don't have a problem with CLE's math , or LA , or even their reading. But History and Science are two tough ones to line up from a Catholic point of view.

 

I just hope some day that something like this will be made. This style of curriculum really makes life so much smoother. Especially when I deal with having health issues right now. I just don't have the energy or feel well enough most days to do so much hand holding.

 

Catholic History http://www.rchistory.com/ and http://www.catholictextbookproject.com/project/project-volumes.html

 

CHC has descent science program. I like it, but I prefer more of the WTM way of science and CHC is not. I use it some years, but not always.

[VA6336]

I can say from having owned it (and using it briefly) that RC History is good history spine, but there's a lot of teacher prep. It's definitely NOT "open and go." It's really designed for a lot of interaction and dialogue, which doesn't sound like what the OP is looking for at this point.

 

I've only ever seen CHC's prek-3rdish science program; what do they call it in the upper grades, kandty?

[Crimson Wife]

I think many Catholic HS families prefer secular materials that they can incorporate into an overall Catholic education rather than "beat-the-child-over-the-head-with-Catholicism" materials (cough*Seton*cough). For example, we discuss math as being part of God's order for the universe He created but I don't need a random Bible verse or quote from a saint thrown onto the workbook page IYKWIM.

[imagine.more]

 

CHC has descent science program. I like it, but I prefer more of the WTM way of science and CHC is not. I use it some years, but not always.

 

I agree. I was actually browsing their stuff and realized that what I could do is to order all 4 (I think it's 4) years of science curriculum, which all touch a bit on every subject. Then go through and say for 1st grade Biology I'd go through each textbook and mark which chapters dealt with Biology subjects and we'd do all of those in 1st grade. Then I'd go through and do the same each year so by the end of 4 years we've used up all their materials but did it in the WTM order which follows along with our history cycle. Probably more complicated than it needs to be but whatever :)

 

I do agree that I'd love to see more homeschool friendly open-and-go Catholic curriculums. When you consider that as a general rule homeschooling Catholics tend to have larger families, it seems it'd be best to have a curriculum that is easier on mom/dad to educate several students with babies/toddlers around. I see several large Protestant families who do a much better job equipping each other to home educate a large family by using these primarily Protestant publishers.

 

Crimson Wife, you have a really good point. That's kind of where we fall in I suppose. To me at least I think all subjects point to God and the truth of the faith without needing us to artificially insert Jesus into everything. He's already there. I don't sit with my preschooler and say "let's learn counting. How many lepers do you see with Jesus? If we add 3 nails + 1 cross what does that equal?" :lol: Math is a science and Theology is the queen of the sciences, it all points to God on a deeper level intrinsically.

 

However, I still think it'd be nice to have a good, solid curriculum that was academically rigorous, relatively open-and-go, and didn't contain heresies. Probably too much to ask ;)

[oraetstudia]

I can say from having owned it (and using it briefly) that RC History is good history spine, but there's a lot of teacher prep. It's definitely NOT "open and go." It's really designed for a lot of interaction and dialogue, which doesn't sound like what the OP is looking for at this point.

 

I've only ever seen CHC's prek-3rdish science program; what do they call it in the upper grades, kandty?

 

I think the old CHC science book "Science 1,2,3" which was sort an outline for teaching those grades is no longer in print. Now they have their "Behold and See" program from 1st through 5th or 6th. It is a work text format, as far as I can tell, though I have never used it.

[TracyR]

Thanks for sharing how those are laid out. I don't know of any Catholic publishers that do it that way.

 

I suppose you could always take the texts you do like and cut the bindings off. Group the pages/units together from the text, workbook and teacher's manual if necessary and spiral or comb bind them. Then, you'd only have to grab the unit you're working on. You could easily put in the tests, quizzes and extra stuff that you might want in to each. Would take some work on your part, but if you did it all in one fell swoop you'd be set for the year.

 

Ellie, I think the OP isn't lamenting the lack of Catholic homeschool curriculum publishers, but that there aren't Catholic versions of that particular style of text/curricula.

 

Good luck, OP, finding what you're looking for.

 

Yes, I wasn't complaining about the lack thereof, but the fact there aren't any Catholic versions of this type of style of curriculum.

Right now my health isn't doing well and the textbook style curriculum isn't getting done very much.

But what is getting done is the CLE math and LA because my daughter doesn't have to rely on me as much , only to ask questions for help.

[kandty]

I agree. I was actually browsing their stuff and realized that what I could do is to order all 4 (I think it's 4) years of science curriculum, which all touch a bit on every subject. Then go through and say for 1st grade Biology I'd go through each textbook and mark which chapters dealt with Biology subjects and we'd do all of those in 1st grade. Then I'd go through and do the same each year so by the end of 4 years we've used up all their materials but did it in the WTM order which follows along with our history cycle. Probably more complicated than it needs to be but whatever :)

 

 

 

CHC use to have this in an ebook!! They had all the science grouped together by topic. I bought it for under $5 a couple of years ago and it was for teaching science to multiple children. But, I didn't use it at the time. I looked and they no longer have it. I guess since they have the new programs they haven't updated this book yet. I wish they would update and sale it again!!

[kandty]

I've only ever seen CHC's prek-3rdish science program; what do they call it in the upper grades, kandty?

 

Here is a link to all their science. http://www.chcweb.com/catalog/ScienceAndMath/ScienceAndHealthPE/catalog.html

 

The new program is called Behold and See and it goes up to 6th grade. We have used 2nd-4th.

[K&Rs Mom]

I do agree that I'd love to see more homeschool friendly open-and-go Catholic curriculums. When you consider that as a general rule homeschooling Catholics tend to have larger families, it seems it'd be best to have a curriculum that is easier on mom/dad to educate several students with babies/toddlers around.

 

OTOH, do larger families try to find ways to combine more, so separate workbooks for each grade/subject would make more work? Maybe that's why this hasn't been developed yet. Open & go is easier in the beginning (less prep), but getting several students working on the same thing is easier in the end (only teach it once, only grade it once).

[merry gardens]

...It seems curriculums like Christian Heritage, Seton and such rely on lesson plans, lots of books and/or teacher manuals to get the lesson plans. ...I do like the looks of CHC but to much stuff. ....

You can use the CHC workbooks w/o their lesson plans. I do. They had workbooks for years before they developed the lesson plans. The answers are in the back and you don't need a teacher's guide.

[imagine.more]

OTOH, do larger families try to find ways to combine more, so separate workbooks for each grade/subject would make more work? Maybe that's why this hasn't been developed yet. Open & go is easier in the beginning (less prep), but getting several students working on the same thing is easier in the end (only teach it once, only grade it once).

 

I think you're right to a point. But with skill-based subjects like math, phonics, grammar, and writing I think a workbook-style would still be best because each child has to do those skill-based subjects separately anyway typically. We're hoping to adopt from foster care soon so might jump from 2 kids to 4 or more all at once so my personal plan long-term is to do History, Science, Religion, and Literature altogether as a group with each kid doing an assignment that fits their age. But Math, Phonics/Grammar, and Writing will be done separately and for those I'd love a more independent workbook style for the kids when they're older or just as a back up for times when life is chaotic.

[kristinannie]

Seton has a really nice elementary history from a Catholic point of view.

http://www.setonbooks.com/curriculum.php

 

 

 

:iagree: If you are looking for Catholic workbooks that are rigorous, Seton is where you need to go. If you are looking for a little less rigor, I recommend CHC. Kolbe Academy also has a wonderful Catholic program. If I wasn't so CM, I would use Kolbe in a heartbeat.

[kristinannie]

I agree. I was actually browsing their stuff and realized that what I could do is to order all 4 (I think it's 4) years of science curriculum, which all touch a bit on every subject. Then go through and say for 1st grade Biology I'd go through each textbook and mark which chapters dealt with Biology subjects and we'd do all of those in 1st grade. Then I'd go through and do the same each year so by the end of 4 years we've used up all their materials but did it in the WTM order which follows along with our history cycle. Probably more complicated than it needs to be but whatever :)

 

I do agree that I'd love to see more homeschool friendly open-and-go Catholic curriculums. When you consider that as a general rule homeschooling Catholics tend to have larger families, it seems it'd be best to have a curriculum that is easier on mom/dad to educate several students with babies/toddlers around. I see several large Protestant families who do a much better job equipping each other to home educate a large family by using these primarily Protestant publishers.

 

Crimson Wife, you have a really good point. That's kind of where we fall in I suppose. To me at least I think all subjects point to God and the truth of the faith without needing us to artificially insert Jesus into everything. He's already there. I don't sit with my preschooler and say "let's learn counting. How many lepers do you see with Jesus? If we add 3 nails + 1 cross what does that equal?" :lol: Math is a science and Theology is the queen of the sciences, it all points to God on a deeper level intrinsically.

 

However, I still think it'd be nice to have a good, solid curriculum that was academically rigorous, relatively open-and-go, and didn't contain heresies. Probably too much to ask ;)

 

 

 

I think you need to look at Kolbe. A lot of their stuff is secular, but they always make sure to let you know in the lesson plans how the church feels about everything. They are very loyal to the Magesterium and there is nothing heretical in their books. They offer real science and a very Catholic Classical education.

[ElizaG]

I missed this thread when it came up -- hope it's not too late to add another 2 cents.

 

Ellie mentioned that there are [ETA: some unspecified number >1 ;)] Catholic textbook companies. That certainly used to be the case, up to the 1960's or so. Sadlier, Ginn, Benziger, MCP, and Loyola Press were among the list. These companies tended to have two divisions: a Catholic one for parochial schools, and a general one for the broader public and private school market. The latter books contained no religious references, but also had nothing we'd find objectionable. Both the Catholic and general lines tended to be academically rigorous.

 

In recent decades, apparently due to some combination of lowered demand and lack of Catholic identity in the parochial schools, the companies stopped publishing the Catholic books for subjects other than religion. Some people in the homeschool community refer to this as "stripping out all the religious references," but this isn't quite what happened. They already sold neutral textbooks. Now, they only sell that kind. And I don't think they'll be going back to the expense of having two separate divisions, as most of the parochial schools seem happy enough with the new versions of VIE, MCP Math, etc. Not to mention that some of these companies have been sold, and are now divisions of large secular publishers.

 

Apart from religious education, the only recent Catholic school textbooks that I've heard of are the ones from CSTP. Even their name (Catholic Schools Textbook Project) is an indication that they're trying to fill a void. Their top priority is on publishing history books, since that's a subject that can't really be taught without bias. But there's no magic fairy helping them do this, and no army of Sister Mary Imeldas to write books for low wages. They're dependent on ongoing financial support, and our prayers, just to keep going with the history series.

 

At best, I can imagine one of the bigger Catholic or secular publishers producing a neutral version of something like CLE math and LA. But is the demand really there? I tend to think that this approach would only be popular with some fraction of homeschoolers, and maybe some charter schools. I'm not sure that there would be a big enough market to justify the expense. And even if they did this, it wouldn't be a "Catholic version" -- which some of us would prefer. :)

 

(Yes, Seton is over the top at times, but the opposite extreme seems just as forced and artificial. Our lives have religious content. Why should our children's word problems and grammar exercises have to studiously avoid any mention of feast days, prayers, Christian moral concepts, etc.?)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Eleanor

[Ellie]

Actually, I didn't say there were "a lot" of Catholic publishers. I said there were some, but that there weren't as many as non-Catholic Christian publishers. :-)

[ElizaG]

Actually, I didn't say there were "a lot" of Catholic publishers. I said there were some, but that there weren't as many as non-Catholic Christian publishers. :-)

Wow, you are fast. I was just going back to correct that, but my internet connection got interrupted. :lol:

 

ETA: And what I was getting at is that there are still (in a sense) a fair number of Catholic publishers, but they aren't recognized as such, because they only publish neutral materials.

 

Grammatical conundrum... If a Catholic publisher of textbooks isn't a publisher of textbooks that are Catholic, is it still a Catholic textbook publisher? :D

Edited March 1, 2012 by Eleanor

[LucyStoner]

I would also not count out the culture of education in the Catholic church as being a reason why. It does not lean heavily in favor of checking off pages in a workbook. Catholic colleges are known for using primary sources, lots of writing and for being really in depth content wise. That does not always translate to a workbook approach. I don't see my friends whose children go to Catholic school using a ton of worksheets either- more books and writing. Just a hunch, based on my Catholic background.

[...................]

Because the Catholic School nuns are so awesome at teaching with nothing but a Marble Notebook for each kid and white chalk, that it wasn't necessary. I'm serious.

 

If such a thing is to come about, I would expect it within the next ten years or so, as the nuns are disappearing and being replaced by newer teachers who rely on texts or workbooks. But then again with excellent Catholic textbook publishers and parochial schools decreasing and being closed all the time, I can't see why they would want to develop something like ACE or CLE. ACE was developed in a time when Christian schools were expanding rapidly and the need for a lower teacher involvement curriculum was extremely high. Lifepac And then CLE was/is developed for Mennonite schools and homeschools. But both were first devloped for schools first, and then homeschoolers took a hold of them.

[Ellie]

Wow, you are fast. I was just going back to correct that, but my internet connection got interrupted. :lol:

Empty-nester, way too much free time on my hands. :lol:

 

ETA: And what I was getting at is that there are still (in a sense) a fair number of Catholic publishers, but they aren't recognized as such, because they only publish neutral materials.

 

Grammatical conundrum... If a Catholic publisher of textbooks isn't a publisher of textbooks that are Catholic, is it still a Catholic textbook publisher? :D

It is a conundrum, isn't it?:D

[LucyStoner]

 

If such a thing is to come about, I would expect it within the next ten years or so, as the nuns are disappearing and being replaced by newer teachers who rely on texts or workbooks. But then again with excellent Catholic textbook publishers and parochial schools decreasing and being closed all the time, I can't see why they would want to develop something like ACE or CLE. ACE was developed in a time when Christian schools were expanding rapidly and the need for a lower teacher involvement curriculum was extremely high. Lifepac And then CLE was/is developed for Mennonite schools and homeschools. But both were first devloped for schools first, and then homeschoolers took a hold of them.

 

Very few of the Catholic school teachers here were nuns 10-15 years ago, much less now. Some are priests, a few are nuns but most are not in religious life.