If you've done both MFW and HOD....

[jewel7123]

Simmer down, people, simmer down! ;)

 

:grouphug:

 

MFW and HOD are BOTH wonderful Christian programs that center around the Bible. However one of these programs may work better for some families than for others, so we need to remember when someone gives their own personal opinion about how MFW or HOD did or did NOT work for them, to not take it personally. I have noticed that certain MFW and HOD'ers have a tendency to get a bit defensive when they see a negative comment made about the program they use.

 

:chillpill: :D

 

 

ETA: For me personally, I find I like certain aspects of BOTH programs, which is why I keep reading these sort of threads. If only there was an EASY way to combine the two, lol.

Edited January 31, 2012 by jewel7123

[Donna A.]

Simmer down, people, simmer down! ;)

 

:grouphug:

 

MFW and HOD are BOTH wonderful Christian programs that center around the Bible. However one of these programs may work better for some families than for others, so we need to remember when someone gives their own personal opinion about how MFW or HOD did or did NOT work for them, to not take it personally. I have noticed that certain MFW and HOD'ers have a tendency to get a bit defensive when they see a negative comment made about the program they use.

 

:chillpill: :D

 

 

ETA: For me personally, I find I like certain aspects of BOTH programs, which is why I keep reading these sort of threads. If only there was an EASY way to combine the two, lol.

 

:001_smile:

[Abbeygurl4]

The bottom line is, you have to try both programs to really know. I tried MFW's K and ECC and didn't like them. I ordered and looked at HOD's younger programs and ended up returning them. I came back to HOD and used Preparing with my 8 yo and CTC with my 12 for about 3 months and I ended up selling them. HOD is just not for us. I went back to MFW and we are using RtR which I plan on sticking with since it's working well for us. I, too, read all the posts here and on the MFW and HOD message boards but I couldn't make a decision until I tried both programs. I have a different opinion as to the religious/Christian aspects of both programs than do some of the posters in this thread, but that is due to my personal beliefs. :confused: Did I confuse you even more?

[teeniebeenie6]

And I don't know, maybe some moms just like having Carrie "script out" what to say about the Bible, including what the child is supposed to pray. Maybe that's easier to do each day? "Read the box and do this...." Whereas some MFW moms like having Marie leave specific interpretation and explanation left up to the parents. It's probably a preference thing, I don't know. Every family is different in how they do Bible. :)

 

This comes off as attackish and condescending. MFW is not much different this way. Here is a quote from MFW: "Then say, "Fruits grow on plants-on trees, bushes, and vines." Have you ever seen fruit growing on people? God says that if we live and stay in Jesus we will grow a lot of fruit. What do you think that means?" MFW is very scripted as well, in K Marie tells a parent what to say in great detail. In two pages we are told what to say to our children about the Bible numerous times.

 

ETA: I like this about both MFW and HOD. We can veer off in our own directions as we feel fit when doing the Bible portion, but they give a good base to start on.

Edited January 31, 2012 by teeniebeenie6

[Abbeygurl4]

This comes off as attackish and condescending. MFW is not much different this way. Here is a quote from MFW: "Then say, "Fruits grow on plants-on trees, bushes, and vines." Have you ever seen fruit growing on people? God says that if we live and stay in Jesus we will grow a lot of fruit. What do you think that means?" MFW is very scripted as well, in K Marie tells a parent what to say in great detail. In two pages we are told what to say to our children about the Bible numerous times.

 

But, is scripted really a bad thing? I think that looking at it from Marie and Carrie's perspective they probably feel that parents can either read the "script" to the child if that's what works for them or use it as a discussion starter or skip it altogether. Better to have it and not use it than to need it and not have it. I really didn't feel that HOD or MFW in the older years to be THAT scripted. I've actually said to the kids "the guide is telling me to say .... yada yada yada; what do you guys think of that?" Sometimes we gain a different perspective and sometimes we think it was just plain hokey, but at least it helps us dialog. Both Marie and Carrie have a heart for the Lord and wrote their curriculum from their ideas of what glorifies God. I'm glad I have HOD and MFW as curriculum choices.

[teeniebeenie6]

But, is scripted really a bad thing? I think that looking at it from Marie and Carrie's perspective they probably feel that parents can either read the "script" to the child if that's what works for them or use it as a discussion starter or skip it altogether. Better to have it and not use it than to need it and not have it. I really didn't feel that HOD or MFW in the older years to be THAT scripted. I've actually said to the kids "the guide is telling me to say .... yada yada yada; what do you guys think of that?" Sometimes we gain a different perspective and sometimes we think it was just plain hokey, but at least it helps us dialog. Both Marie and Carrie have a heart for the Lord and wrote their curriculum from their ideas of what glorifies God. I'm glad I have HOD and MFW as curriculum choices.

 

Oh I am in total agreement with you. That is why I posted what I did. HOD was put in a bit of a negative light for being too scripted but I find MFW is too in the beginning years. I like that, but others don't.

[Molly]

Gratitude and Donna A, thank you for your replies. I wasn't trying to upset anyone, I genuinely was confused. Having read your replies, it makes a little more sense. Of course, you realise, that NZ is very similar in the lack of teaching on the foundations of which our country was built (and it too spreads not only through the education system, but politics and the everyday happenings in our country), but I will say my reason for home schooling is definately not because I am a Christian, it is because I want my children to get the best education we can possibly give them, so that also helped me to understand a little more. And I completely agree, we have to do what is right for our own families.

 

My apologies for the diversion from the original topic.

[cbollin]

This comes off as attackish and condescending. MFW is not much different this way.

 

hmm.. Donna has used and likes both programs. I don't sense that in her tone at all. I think she is speculating on why one flavor tastes different. It's like coffee flavors..... or ice cream flavors.... .or mint chocolate vs. raspberry... which is better? depends on the week of the month - it's all chocolate! now where did my dh hide the stash from me? :lol:

 

respectfully here.....I think when Donna A was talking about that comparison she was referring to upper levels in MFW without scripts, not to Kindy program. In the context of her paragraph, it was about the 5 year cycle programs. Yes in Kindy and in 1st MFW is more scripted. It doesn't stay like that - which might be a difference in styles of programs that she is trying to explain.

 

 

the best way to figure out the differences is a lot like gratitude did... experience them both. don't feel married to curriculum. Seek HIM first and ALL of these things will be added unto you.

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

hmm.. Donna has used and likes both programs. I don't sense that in her tone at all. I think she is speculating on why one flavor tastes different. It's like coffee flavors..... or ice cream flavors.... .or mint chocolate vs. raspberry... which is better? depends on the week of the month - it's all chocolate! now where did my dh hide the stash from me? :lol:

 

respectfully here.....I think when Donna A was talking about that comparison she was referring to upper levels in MFW without scripts, not to Kindy program. In the context of her paragraph, it was about the 5 year cycle programs. Yes in Kindy and in 1st MFW is more scripted. It doesn't stay like that - which might be a difference in styles of programs that she is trying to explain.

 

 

the best way to figure out the differences is a lot like gratitude did... experience them both. don't feel married to curriculum. Seek HIM first and ALL of these things will be added unto you.

 

-crystal

 

'zactly, thank you. You know, chocolate is chocolate. I love it all. But I do prefer Peppermint Mocha over Espresso Chocolate. :D

[Abbeygurl4]

 

And I don't know, maybe some moms just like having Carrie "script out" what to say about the Bible, including what the child is supposed to pray. Maybe that's easier to do each day? "Read the box and do this...." Whereas some MFW moms like having Marie leave specific interpretation and explanation left up to the parents. It's probably a preference thing, I don't know. Every family is different in how they do Bible. :)

 

I have to admit, my 12 yo ds refused to do the "Bible Quiet Time" box in HOD. He said he'd read the bible verses but he had a problem with being told what to say to the Lord.

 

"Prayer Focus: Pray a prayer of thanksgiving to express gratitude for God’s divine goodness. Begin by reading the highlighted verse out loud as a prayer. End by praying, Thank you Lord for saving Noah and his family so that I can be here today. I am grateful for your word, for Noah’s example of living a life in obedience to you, and for..."

From HOD's CTC

 

"Memory Verse—1 Corinthians 13

For the next few weeks, memorize 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a. Add these verses to your 1 Corinthians wall chart. This week, discuss the meaning of verse 4. Remember to watch for ways to apply these truths in your lives."

from MFW's RTR.

 

Based on the above, HOD's bible is more scripted. But neither one is better than the other. It just depends on individual preferences and family needs.

[AngelBee]

I think they are both beautiful programs. So is Sonlight. And TOG.

 

Can't live without SOTW. And I really like MOH.

 

Hmmmm.......not helping huh? :lol:

[Mallorie]

My only reason for popping in here is because someone said "chocolate". :)

[AngelBee]

My only reason for popping in here is because someone said "chocolate". :)

 

:lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I must say I'm a bit confused about why people place such an importance on the bible in terms of schooling. As a new HOD user, I am using it as written, but as I would imagine with any curriculum, boxed or not, my own personality and knowledge will be mixed in there. I also believe that the bulk of my children's biblical education is actually going to come through family devotions where we discuss what we are reading, and at church, where we are all together learning the same thing. Surely bible learning isn't limited to school hours, and there is a lot more to living than being in the bible all the time. We can live the bible without being in it, meditation and the likes, and prayer. I also think hearing other people's opinions on things help us with our own interpretations of the bible. I don't believe everything anyone says to be, the bible is my truth and if it doesn't line up, I let my children know. The whole idea of HOD is to teach the children to think (well, that's what I have gathered since I have been looking into it) for themselves with Christ at the centre of their lives. We are here to guide them, discuss with them and pray with them.

:iagree:I couldn't begin to trust a curriculum to teach my daughter. She even refused to pray with her Master's Club leader (her first day was last week) ;) She has learned the most about Jesus from natural conversation, and we choose our Bible reading around that. What is she ready to learn now? What questions is she asking? etc. And it works! She is a child of God now. :) Edited February 4, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[3peasinapod]

My only reason for popping in here is because someone said "chocolate". :)

 

:lol::lol:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I wanted to pop in again and share our experience with ECC. ECC was the first MFW Guide we used (with the exception of K)...and the last. I LOVED the idea of studying different countries and cultures esp. with a focus on missions. The guide looked like so much fun, I researched books to go along with each country/culture, etc. We dove right in...all 4 of my school-aged dc (ranging in age from 6th gr. down to 1st) with my PreKer just tagging along and coloring flags and such. The first month (say 4-5 weeks) were okay. They enjoyed the mapping games, coloring the flags, the crafts, cooking, etc. They never enjoyed the workbook pages and much to my dismay, didn't enjoy the book about the different cultures. :glare: We trudged through for about 15 weeks until we gave up. It had become a chore. I considered doing MFW CtC but was too jaded from using ECC. We used MOH instead. And then we found HOD. :D Do you want to keep your dc combined in HOD? Have you re-checked the placement charts? We ended up skipping CtC and moving right to RtR after doing Preparing b/c my older boys both placed securely in that Guide. We ended up moving ds10 down to Bigger and putting ds8 and dd6 in Beyond. It's tough to juggle 3 Guides, but I "tweak" a bunch and skip some things that they already know (a lot of the Geography stuff my dc already know) to make it work. Just wanted to share our experience. I will add, in all fairness, that many MFW users have said that ECC was their favorite year. So YMMV. :D

We are going through exactly what you described here with ECC we are in week 14 and it is feeling more like a chore than the joy of learning we had with adventures last year. We loved loved loved adventures. ECC we are not enjoying in the least :(

[melissamomof5]

We are going through exactly what you described here with ECC we are in week 14 and it is feeling more like a chore than the joy of learning we had with adventures last year. We loved loved loved adventures. ECC we are not enjoying in the least :(

 

We too are struggling through ECC this year. I was exactly like you and Sue who you quoted. I was SO EXCITED to use it and thought it was going to be perfect for us. We are on week 20 or 21 now. I am going to double up and do each country in one week to get through it as quickly as possible then take as much time as we need to finish up math, english, spelling, etc.

[Julie in MN]

Aw, you gals are breakin' my heart :)

 

Since you all already have the program and probably need to finish the year, I thought I'd throw in some ideas? Especially for those who came out of Adventures (written for grades 2-3) and weren't used to a manual written for grades 3-8.

 

First, most folks who don't enjoy ECC are usually doing the Geography research pages with little ones. If you are, then tape it shut and put it in the basement until you have kids in 5th-8th. Do the same with anything labeled "advanced," and maybe reread anything Marie mentioned in the front of the manual about little ones. I know my 3rd grader, although he felt ECC was a lot more fun than 2nd grade public school, he still was one who didn't like coloring maps all that much so he outlined sometimes, used wide colored pencils without the wood, etc.

 

Second, most folks who don't enjoy ECC have often stopped doing the fun stuff. Make sure you're playing the geography game, singing the songs, trying the little activity ideas in the Trip Around the World books, etc. Kids really learn better from those things.

 

A third thing I can think of is that by now you probably can tailor your book basket towards the things that your family enjoys. I know at my house, it was fairy tales and at another house it might be cookbooks. There's so much to learn about the world that we can delve into our favorite areas.

 

What else? Hmmm. Maybe families are using heavy-duty language arts & math that weigh down the day? Don't forget that some of the language arts is already taken care of in ECC (memory work, copywork, handwriting, etc.).

 

Not sure whether anything hits the spot, but thought I'd try to help?

Julie

[Lovedtodeath]

My daughter loved Geography when we added Around the World Art and Activities. :) I haven't used ECC... just thought I'd throw that out there.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Aw, you gals are breakin' my heart :)

 

Since you all already have the program and probably need to finish the year, I thought I'd throw in some ideas? Especially for those who came out of Adventures (written for grades 2-3) and weren't used to a manual written for grades 3-8.

 

First, most folks who don't enjoy ECC are usually doing the Geography research pages with little ones. If you are, then tape it shut and put it in the basement until you have kids in 5th-8th. Do the same with anything labeled "advanced," and maybe reread anything Marie mentioned in the front of the manual about little ones. I know my 3rd grader, although he felt ECC was a lot more fun than 2nd grade public school, he still was one who didn't like coloring maps all that much so he outlined sometimes, used wide colored pencils without the wood, etc.

 

We aren't doing the advanced stuff... never did. We did the first one or two Geography research pages, until I realized they were just too old for my kiddo's.

 

Second, most folks who don't enjoy ECC have often stopped doing the fun stuff. Make sure you're playing the geography game, singing the songs, trying the little activity ideas in the Trip Around the World books, etc. Kids really learn better from those things.

 

Geography game was a bust. My dd 6 liked it alright, but my ds 8 was in tears and begged to not play it again. He is a perfectionist. So we have just spent more time studying the locations on our own instead of playing the game. It is working much better. The songs have been a good fit though. I admit we have been skipping the Trip around the world activities though.

 

A third thing I can think of is that by now you probably can tailor your book basket towards the things that your family enjoys. I know at my house, it was fairy tales and at another house it might be cookbooks. There's so much to learn about the world that we can delve into our favorite areas.

 

Book basket has been good here. We aren't really enjoying the Christian Hero books though :( I was so excited about these. We really disliked Cam townsend and are tolerating Nate Saint.

 

What else? Hmmm. Maybe families are using heavy-duty language arts & math that weigh down the day? Don't forget that some of the language arts is already taken care of in ECC (memory work, copywork, handwriting, etc.).

 

Our LA and Math are on the same time frame as the schedule example given in the front of the manual.

Not sure whether anything hits the spot, but thought I'd try to help?

Julie

 

Thanks for trying to help. I really want to love this program. If you think of anything else please let me know. We've been skipping the art too much too I think.

[Julie in MN]

Geography game was a bust. My dd 6 liked it alright, but my ds 8 was in tears and begged to not play it again. He is a perfectionist. So we have just spent more time studying the locations on our own instead of playing the game. It is working much better. The songs have been a good fit though. I admit we have been skipping the Trip around the world activities though.

About the game, first of all I didn't have my child do any of the prep for that, so that usually saved a day of time. Also, I've heard of folks using pennies or even M&Ms with little ones. And we liked the online game here http://www.seterra.net/ But it sounds like whatever you're doing is working.

 

The Trip Around The World book has tons of fun stuff in there. Of course there are the language pages and the recipes. And it's the activity pages where we learned to wrap a saari and a dhoti around ourselves with a bed sheet :) I know it's optional, but if your kids aren't learning or aren't motivated, I'd try making other things optional and making these a priority. Usually a whole day of geography is set aside for them.

 

Book basket has been good here. We aren't really enjoying the Christian Hero books though I was so excited about these. We really disliked Cam townsend and are tolerating Nate Saint.

Good on the book basket. The missionary biographies are optional, as is everything in the Deluxe part of the grid. My 3rd grade son really looked forward to them, but he had siblings who were in high school at the time so he might have been more mature. He was ho-hum about Cameron, but the lessons of Cameron came back to us throughout the year, with realizing that folks have their own "heart language."

 

If you're doing Nate Saint now, make sure you use the ECC manual to guide your children through the ending of that book, so the sacrifice of those men has meaning. My son found nothing about Nate to be ho-hum, so maybe your kids just aren't ready. The only help I can think of is that YWAM offers some free wordfinds and such here:

http://www.ywampublishing.com/c-78-heroes-series-bonus-material.aspx

We did use the YWAM Unit Study Guides for a couple of books, and as I recall they helped my son remember the previous chapter. Each day when we began, I'd ask him 1 or 2 questions about what we read last time, and ask if he knew what the vocab word meant. It *really* wasn't much, and I don't mean to overload, but we did that a couple of books.

 

Thanks for trying to help. I really want to love this program. If you think of anything else please let me know. We've been skipping the art too much too I think.

In order to get crafts done that year, I whittled it down to one per country, so maybe 15 for the year, probably less since I'm not crafty. But I feel glad that my son had that sort of "elementary school experience" back then -- he's in 10th grade now and no cutting out paper dolls any more :) We made the fabric bowl and the mural in Africa, I remember, and those are still here. Most, though, we took a picture and moved on :tongue_smilie:

 

As far as thinking of anything else, I remember using a whole bag of potting soil that year, growing the different plants that were suggested, like potatoes. We also used the soil for a terrarium and a desert scene. I also remember going to the grocery store and trying to pick out some of the recommended fruits and veggies to try. I tried not to get hung up on the fact that I didn't even know what a persimmon or whole avocado would look like, and explore with my child. We asked the grocer, we asked other shoppers, and we ended up picking a couple that looked different and trying to see what we liked best. It really wasn't a lot of money, and even that was a geography lesson -- I remember my son being amazed at all the countries the fruit came "from" and how little it cost to buy it all the way in Minnesota. I know these kinds of activities can be harder with a bunch of little ones, but I've found my grandson actually causes less trouble when he's watching my 10th grader do a messy experiment or something :)

 

Lastly, do you make use of the "Ideas" boards on the MFW message board? There are often ways to substitute or extra ideas that worked in families that might be like yours.

 

HTH,

Julie