? for those currently involved in Girl Scouts

[Novafan]

When are the new big program changes official? This Fall? I know a ton about Girl Scouting, as I spent 12 years as a Scout and many years as a leader, but I've been out of the loop for about 3 years now. I've caught glimpses of the news about the big program changes, but I don't know the details. It seems very hard to find info about it online.

 

My DD turns 4 this month so we are one year out from starting Girl Scouts (Daisies). We will be moving overseas and because I'm not sure about what they have to offer where we are moving, I want to get all of my training up to date so I can jump in and be a leader when she starts overseas.

 

I'd love any details about the new program. I know they are changing the levels around a bit. Will they have new program materials (handbooks and badge/patch books) too?

 

I'm very "old school" when it comes to Girl Scouting and I can't say I'm a fan of the newer teen program, so I'm leery of these new program changes. I'd love to hear something promising about it though.

 

TIA!

[Brigitte]

What are the changes? My girls are interested in Scouts, but I was not thrilled about the one troop option we had here. Since we are moving, I thought I might look into it again.

[Plaid Dad]

:bigear:

 

My dd was a Brownie this year and hopes to continue next year. All I have heard is that the age ranges for the different levels would be changing. I'm interested in more details if anyone has them.

[Novafan]

That's the thing. I'm not sure what the details are, but things are a'changing. I know the program levels are changing and if my memory serves me, this is what the new level set up will look like:

 

Daisy K-1 (5 - 6 y.o.)

Brownies 2-3 (7-8 y.o.)

Juniors - I'm not sure

Cadettes - Not sure

Seniors - not sure

New rank - Ambassadors, for oldest Girl Scouts (11th and 12th grade?)

 

I'm dying to hear more about he new program materials.

 

 

What are the changes? My girls are interested in Scouts, but I was not thrilled about the one troop option we had here. Since we are moving, I thought I might look into it again.

[Deb in NZ]

You may find you need to do training that is relevent to the country that you are living in. Outside of the US "Girl Scouts" are "Girl Guides." And in many countries now girls our allowed to be members of Scouts (i.e. "Boy" Scouts in the US). I'm a Scout Leader here in NZ & my dd was a Brownie & Guide before joining Scouts at the Venturer level. Programs overseas are similar, but not exactly the same as the US program. Our most recent program changes were last year.

[bettyandbob]

my dd is a junior. She is in 4th this year, so she only bridged to juniors last year. Cadettes will be starting in 6th. It's like a 3 year transition for this to go into place so dd has the option of bridging next spring or waiting through 6th. Her good friend is a grade ahead but dd wants to bridge at the same time so they can still do scout activities together. So, they will both bridge next spring. Now, dd has complicated this by insisting she must earn the bronze award, but she really has shortened the time to get the preliminary stuff done and do the project.

 

I think other levels are changing too.

[Jenny in Atl]

I asked about this in another thread but got no replies. Those of you active in the GS. What do you think of their affiliation with this group and the Chaordic Commons?

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/leadership_from_the_inside_out.asp

[Fourmother]

I'm also very interested. My dd will be 5 in October, so we are planning to have her do the Daisy program as an individual scout. When I went to my local council office to purchase the Daisy materials, I was surprised at how light they are, especially compared with what cub scouts do at that age. I don't know how the current Daisy program could be stretched out over 2 years. It looks like she could finish the whole thing in a matter of weeks.

 

Since dd is my only girl, I have had very little experience with GSA. It seems strange to me that they are revamping the entire program for the fall and it still isn't ready to be released in June. How are leaders and parents supposed to have time to get up to speed? It feels very disorganized to me. Somebody please tell me that there's a method to the madness, and that I won't be tearing my hair out in 6 months.

[Novafan]

We are going to do US Girl Scouts Overseas. We'll be in a capital city (Vienna) and there is a big US Embassy (State Dept.) population there, so I'm hoping that there might be some programs in place already.

 

You may find you need to do training that is relevent to the country that you are living in. Outside of the US "Girl Scouts" are "Girl Guides." And in many countries now girls our allowed to be members of Scouts (i.e. "Boy" Scouts in the US). I'm a Scout Leader here in NZ & my dd was a Brownie & Guide before joining Scouts at the Venturer level. Programs overseas are similar, but not exactly the same as the US program. Our most recent program changes were last year.

[Novafan]

See, I've never been a fan of the Daisy program. JMHO I think if they are going to make it last an extra year that they MUST be beefing it up a bit. They have to be, right? I hope.

 

As far as the changes, from my point of view, it's either disorganized or super Top Secret, because there just doesn't seem to be a ton of concrete information about it out there. At least not that I can find. I am very antsy to learn more about it. My hope is that it's not a bunch of this touchy-feely "fluff" that they've ben sneaking into the program over the last 2 decades.

 

 

 

I'm also very interested. My dd will be 5 in October, so we are planning to have her do the Daisy program as an individual scout. When I went to my local council office to purchase the Daisy materials, I was surprised at how light they are, especially compared with what cub scouts do at that age. I don't know how the current Daisy program could be stretched out over 2 years. It looks like she could finish the whole thing in a matter of weeks.

 

Since dd is my only girl, I have had very little experience with GSA. It seems strange to me that they are revamping the entire program for the fall and it still isn't ready to be released in June. How are leaders and parents supposed to have time to get up to speed? It feels very disorganized to me. Somebody please tell me that there's a method to the madness, and that I won't be tearing my hair out in 6 months.

[Novafan]

I think that was an option when I was a junior scout too (1985'ish). You could remain a junior for one more year or bridge up to a Cadette troop one year early. It's fuzzy, but I think they allowed you to choose. Of course, back then we didn't have the Bronze Award, so that didn't really play a part in the decision to move up early.

 

my dd is a junior. She is in 4th this year, so she only bridged to juniors last year. Cadettes will be starting in 6th. It's like a 3 year transition for this to go into place so dd has the option of bridging next spring or waiting through 6th. Her good friend is a grade ahead but dd wants to bridge at the same time so they can still do scout activities together. So, they will both bridge next spring. Now, dd has complicated this by insisting she must earn the bronze award, but she really has shortened the time to get the preliminary stuff done and do the project.

 

I think other levels are changing too.

[Pegasus]

I don't know a lot more than has been posted here but for what its worth:

 

Daisy K-1st

Brownies 2nd-3rd

Juniors 4th-5th

Cadettes 6th-7th-8th

Seniors 9th-10th

Ambassadors 11th-12th

 

I think it is a positive thing since I was NOT a fan of the Studio 2B teen thing. The new Daisies will include more than previously. They will be able to sell, for one thing. :glare:

 

Earning badges, while still an option, will be de-emphasized. They are coordinating everything around the theme of teaching the girls leadership.

 

The new books and such will not be out until this summer sometime and I won't be surprised if we start the Fall without them. I never get my Girl Scout membership card until that year is almost over so I don't have a lot of confidence in them moving quickly to get something this comprehensive out on time.

 

Pegasus

[CLHCO]

My understanding is that for now the shift will only pertain to age rankings, particularly in the older girl scout area. They will be adding a scarf to the uniform too. Otherwise, at this immediate stage, that's all I've heard we need to look for. I don't know what any bridging changes they'll have in the upper level to ambassador.

 

When they came out with the Studio 2B (which I never liked either) they had a couple of years of transition. I'm certain that will be the same here.

[Confuzzled]

My daughter is in American Heritage Girls and absolutely loves it. It's a great alternative!

 

http://www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=18722

 

Kris

[GailV]

I don't know a lot more than has been posted here but for what its worth:

 

Daisy K-1st

Brownies 2nd-3rd

Juniors 4th-5th

Cadettes 6th-7th-8th

Seniors 9th-10th

Ambassadors 11th-12th

 

I think it is a positive thing since I was NOT a fan of the Studio 2B teen thing. The new Daisies will include more than previously. They will be able to sell, for one thing. :glare:

 

Earning badges, while still an option, will be de-emphasized. They are coordinating everything around the theme of teaching the girls leadership.

 

The new books and such will not be out until this summer sometime and I won't be surprised if we start the Fall without them. I never get my Girl Scout membership card until that year is almost over so I don't have a lot of confidence in them moving quickly to get something this comprehensive out on time.

 

Pegasus

 

At first I thought changing the ages for the levels was dumb, but I'm warming up to the idea. For one thing, the girls have 2 years to work on their Bronze Award, 3 years for their Silver Award, and 4 years for their Gold Award, which actually makes a lot of sense.

 

Also, I'm thankful that Brownies is only 2 years. Our Brownie troop last year was huge, partially because that's the most popular time to be a Scout (grades 1-3) around here. On the other hand, we couldn't come up with 5 girls for a Daisy troop. I expect both problems to be helped by the new structure.

 

The info on the "new" way to earn Interest Projects for Cadettes, Seniors and Ambassadors is already online.

 

I think the business about teaching leadership is a bunch of mush, though. I'm not convinced that GSUSA knows what a leader is or has a clue how to teach it.

 

BTW, my 12yo thought Studio 2B was dorky. She wants to go camping and earn a Silver and a Gold Award. She loves badge work.

[GailV]

Now, dd has complicated this by insisting she must earn the bronze award, but she really has shortened the time to get the preliminary stuff done and do the project.

.

 

My dd did the Bronze Award in one school year. She already had her Junior Aid award, which helped. But, really, it wasn't too terribly hard if you just keep plugging away at it. It helped that one of her friends was doing the same thing (earning it in one year) so they could compare and cheer each other on.

[newbie]

How do you get an American Heritage Group started in San Diego. I am surprised we dont already have one.

 

Jeannette

[In The Great White North]

The new age groups are starting in the fall but there will be a transition time. One difference is that, so far at least, they are going exclusively by grades without the age options. In other words, all 4th graders will be Juniors whether they are 7 or 10. Bad idea. IMO, it will either change officially or be blown off at the local level. Locally, the flexibility is needed to accomodate individual girl's needs and to fill troops.

 

The new material are NOT expected to be out in the fall.Some of the Cadette and Senior material is still being used, in spite of the existence of Studio 2B. It didn't go over well. Council has no news on who is going to do which award. Will Gold go to Ambassadors? Will Silver move up to Seniors and Bronze up to Cadette? Will they make up something new for Ambassadors? The new program materials won't be out this fall because "they" haven't nailed this stuff down yet.

 

They will gradfather girls who have started working on badges/awards so they don't have to start over in the middle.

 

Daisies are younger than Cub Scouts -Tigers don't start til 1st. Daisies didn't exist when I was a girl and was useless when dd was little. Don't expect much from Daisies. It's a glorified playgroup. I don't think they are beefing it up - they have just found 1st grade too young for Brownies.

 

I do think it is totally disorganized and likely to be even "fluffier" than it was before. That's why I think it is so important to be a leader. You can't just follow the program like the Boy Scouts. You have to read through the materials, translate them out of "politically correct-ese" and adapt them to meet your needs. I continually go back to earlier (1920 and 1932) editions of the handbook for great ideas, where the girls did things to build self-esteem instead of talking about self-esteem. Then, I get out the current Cadette/Senior Interest Project books and juggle requirements til I find an IP that sort of fits. It can be done, but it's leader intensive.

 

I have an "Older Girl" troop, which used to be Cadettes and Seniors til Studio 2B came around. I don't plan on splitting my 7 girls into 3 troops in the fall. We have made sure everyone started their Silver Award, so they can be grandfathered if the new rules are weird.

[Novafan]

So PLEASE tell me that Studio 2B is going away. Obviously I'm not the only one who isn't fond of it. It appears that the most difficult transitions will be for the older girl program, which is a shame. That's my favorite part of the program (I used to be a Cadette/Senior leader before I had my own children). I plan to be as involved as possible when my DD enters GS (in one year from now), so hopefully I can influence the troop and make it FUN and traditional.

 

I wish they would just do away with Daisies and leave the Brownies alone, the way it's always been. The way I did it. :) Oh well, I guess I need to let go of the old way and embrace the new way. If they do NOT beef up the Daisy program, I fear they might lose girls at the Daisy level (which is NOT good) out of boredom. Daisy leaders are going to have to be more innovative than before.

 

Have the Boy Scouts undergone any major changes like this? It doesn't seem like it. My Cub Scouts are young. One is currently a Wolf (about to be a Bear) and I have an upcoming Tiger for this Fall. I vaguely remember my brother's time in Cub and Boy Scouts and it seems like my boys are having a similar experience. Not much seems to have changed and that seems to be a GREAT thing. The traditions are strong.

 

I just hate to see GSUSA moving toward a more touchy-feely, politically correct Girl Scout program. It makes me sad. :(

 

 

The new age groups are starting in the fall but there will be a transition time. One difference is that, so far at least, they are going exclusively by grades without the age options. In other words, all 4th graders will be Juniors whether they are 7 or 10. Bad idea. IMO, it will either change officially or be blown off at the local level. Locally, the flexibility is needed to accomodate individual girl's needs and to fill troops.

 

The new material are NOT expected to be out in the fall.Some of the Cadette and Senior material is still being used, in spite of the existence of Studio 2B. It didn't go over well. Council has no news on who is going to do which award. Will Gold go to Ambassadors? Will Silver move up to Seniors and Bronze up to Cadette? Will they make up something new for Ambassadors? The new program materials won't be out this fall because "they" haven't nailed this stuff down yet.

 

They will gradfather girls who have started working on badges/awards so they don't have to start over in the middle.

 

Daisies are younger than Cub Scouts -Tigers don't start til 1st. Daisies didn't exist when I was a girl and was useless when dd was little. Don't expect much from Daisies. It's a glorified playgroup. I don't think they are beefing it up - they have just found 1st grade too young for Brownies.

 

I do think it is totally disorganized and likely to be even "fluffier" than it was before. That's why I think it is so important to be a leader. You can't just follow the program like the Boy Scouts. You have to read through the materials, translate them out of "politically correct-ese" and adapt them to meet your needs. I continually go back to earlier (1920 and 1932) editions of the handbook for great ideas, where the girls did things to build self-esteem instead of talking about self-esteem. Then, I get out the current Cadette/Senior Interest Project books and juggle requirements til I find an IP that sort of fits. It can be done, but it's leader intensive.

 

I have an "Older Girl" troop, which used to be Cadettes and Seniors til Studio 2B came around. I don't plan on splitting my 7 girls into 3 troops in the fall. We have made sure everyone started their Silver Award, so they can be grandfathered if the new rules are weird.

[In The Great White North]

The only major change to Boy Scouts was the addition of Tigers. The merit badge books have been updated (1st Aid has changed a lot since 1910!) The unifrom is basically the same.

 

My understanding is that Studio 2B will go away. I've yet to talk to anyone who actually liked it. The only good thing about it was combining Cadettes and Seniors, which smaller troops had been doing for years anyway (and will continue to do.)

 

However, I'm not holding my breath that the replacement will be any better. It seems to be based on a recent survey of non-Girl Scout (!) girls out of the main office (NY,NY!) instead of the girls who actually joined Girl Scouts. Why they would ask a bunch of inner city girls, who aren't interested in GS in the first place, what GS should be all about, is beyond me. :confused: The program has become much more urban-oriented as a result. I think they were just trying to justify the latest feminist spin they wanted to foist on the program.

 

Oh well, I guess I need to let go of the old way and embrace the new way

 

No, you don't. The leader's job is to make Girl Scouting relevant to your troop. My troop is traditional and camping oriented - no touchy-feely allowed. There is so much leeway in Girl Scouting. The older handbooks are full of interesting skills that actually produce something or make you more independent. These are readily available for under $5 on ebay.

 

The badge "requirements" are not requirements, they are suggestions. The official policy is to adapt the "requirements" so all girls can accomplish them. I read this to mean all girls, including those whose parents won't let them watch hours of sit-coms and discuss how they feel about them! (Yes, it actually is in an Interest Project for Older Girls - I think it's called the Couch Potato!)

 

You can alter (or actually make up) "requirements" that support the general idea of the badge you are working on. For example, one of the badges says to "decorate" (ie. sew patches onto) a pair of your favorite blue jeans. Hmmm. I don't think so. Even my most flamboyant dd would never wear them again. We sewed the patches on our vest instead. As homeschoolers, most of us are proficient at adapting a program or lesson to our dd's needs. It's the same idea. You, as leader, make the rpogram fit the girl, not the girl fit the program.

 

Last weekend, I took them camping. It was the annual Camporee. Since it's geared toward littles, we do our own thing. Last year, we did 1st Aid, CPR and When Help Is Delayed at camp (with the usual cooking out etc. of camp). This year, we hiked out to the back 40 (of the camp) with all our supplies, food and water and made our own shelters out of tarps, started fires without matches (Friday was wet!), went swimming and canoeing. They hiked about 8 miles on Saturday and went swimming twice (it was 90). They range from 11 to 14, and they loved it. These are all girls who quit after a few years of cutting and pasting, and but were willing to try camping.

 

Every year, they have a flag ceremony. Usually, the girls line up and say something they like about Girl Scouting or their troop or the event (ie. touchy-feely). Not us. They marched up to the flag pole, lowered the flag, folded it properly and marched off. One of them is working on "Retreat" on her trumpet for next year.

 

Girl Scouting can be whatever you make of it, in spite of the latest fad coming out of the main office.

[CLHCO]

I think the business about teaching leadership is a bunch of mush, though. I'm not convinced that GSUSA knows what a leader is or has a clue how to teach it.

 

BTW, my 12yo thought Studio 2B was dorky. She wants to go camping and earn a Silver and a Gold Award. She loves badge work.

 

My girls can't stand Studio 2B. The ones they had to do in order to earn their silver they just choked through. They are incredibly self-obsessed, live-eat-breath emotional pandering. Where's the encouragement to look beyond yourself?

 

They did one on their own because they wanted to and that was the jogging one.

 

The lack of "requirements" bugged us all. They could do as few or many "goals" as they wanted. No real standards so no real pride in the accomplishment. The lack of uniform also bothered us when we went to a combine recruitment for girl scouts and boy scouts. The girls were all so sloppy looking and the boys looked very sharp and professional.

 

Sorry, I know this isn't a Studio 2B rant thread but that one bugs me. The silver and gold awards are still excellent though. They are a lot of work, as they should be.

[In The Great White North]

The uniform thing bugs me too. So we all wear the vest, with a white shirt and khaki pants. We made troop bandanas that we wear as neckerchiefs. It looks much more professional.

 

The lack of requirements has been the saving grace of Studio 2b, imo. It allows us to do the minimal amount of BS and still work toward the Silver Award. If they get dogmatic about it, the whole troop will quit.

 

They all realize the Studio 2b stuff was just checking the box. The real achievement comes from our other activities and the main Silver project.

 

I'm counting on the new program being as undefined as Studio 2B - so I can adapt it for my troop.

[Jenny in Atl]

My girls can't stand Studio 2B. The ones they had to do in order to earn their silver they just choked through. They are incredibly self-obsessed, live-eat-breath emotional pandering. Where's the encouragement to look beyond yourself?

 

They did one on their own because they wanted to and that was the jogging one.

 

The lack of "requirements" bugged us all. They could do as few or many "goals" as they wanted. No real standards so no real pride in the accomplishment. The lack of uniform also bothered us when we went to a combine recruitment for girl scouts and boy scouts. The girls were all so sloppy looking and the boys looked very sharp and professional.

 

Sorry, I know this isn't a Studio 2B rant thread but that one bugs me. The silver and gold awards are still excellent though. They are a lot of work, as they should be.

 

I've posted twice about the GS involvement with the Chaordic Commons, and no one has said a word. I was a member of another organization (still have strong ties) that is being torn apart by its involvement with this group (folks who started it). I'm really interested in hearing if you feel the GS is moving away from its core beliefs.

[JenneinCA]

My daughter does Girl Scouts. She just finished her first year as a Junior. Her troop is largely a social group that happens to do a few badges, occasionally. We tend to do them at home as mini unit studies. It works for us.

 

I would comment on the Chaordic Commons, but I don't know what it is!

 

I was not a Girl Scout when I was younger so I don't have any experience with the way it used to be to compare. For our troop, things are okay.

[Novafan]

No, you don't. The leader's job is to make Girl Scouting relevant to your troop. My troop is traditional and camping oriented - no touchy-feely allowed. There is so much leeway in Girl Scouting. The older handbooks are full of interesting skills that actually produce something or make you more independent. These are readily available for under $5 on ebay.

 

 

Just to clarify, when I said that I need to embrace the "new" way, it was about the Daisy/Brownie levels. Meaning, if they change the grade levels and make Daisies two years, instead of one, I would have to embrace that change. Or is that up for interpretation as well? I TOTALLY agree with you that the leader can mold the program to fit the girl and if using a more traditional GS program works better, then that is the way to go. I can't STAND the new spin on the older girl programs.

[Novafan]

I've posted twice about the GS involvement with the Chaordic Commons, and no one has said a word. I was a member of another organization (still have strong ties) that is being torn apart by its involvement with this group (folks who started it). I'm really interested in hearing if you feel the GS is moving away from its core beliefs.

 

I am not familiar with Chaordic Commons either. Tell us about your experience.

[GailV]

 

The badge "requirements" are not requirements, they are suggestions. The official policy is to adapt the "requirements" so all girls can accomplish them. I read this to mean all girls, including those whose parents won't let them watch hours of sit-coms and discuss how they feel about them! (Yes, it actually is in an Interest Project for Older Girls - I think it's called the Couch Potato!)

 

You can alter (or actually make up) "requirements" that support the general idea of the badge you are working on. For example, one of the badges says to "decorate" (ie. sew patches onto) a pair of your favorite blue jeans. Hmmm. I don't think so. Even my most flamboyant dd would never wear them again. We sewed the patches on our vest instead. As homeschoolers, most of us are proficient at adapting a program or lesson to our dd's needs. It's the same idea. You, as leader, make the rpogram fit the girl, not the girl fit the program.

 

Last year the Junior leader really had issues with making up your own requirements. She wanted to do everything EXACTLY as in the book. Sigh. It was tough, since some of the requirements are just plain dippy. By the end of the year she had loosened up some. Also, I'd figured out how to write out what-I'm-doing-vs.-what-the-book-says in a way that pleased her.

 

But, really, I could see her point. She just felt that the requirements had been put there for a purpose, and if we didn't follow them we might end up saying we'd do something dumb like, say, watching hours of sitcoms (oh, oops, that's already a requirement!) instead of supposedly worthwhile activites.

 

 

Girl Scouting can be whatever you make of it, in spite of the latest fad coming out of the main office.

 

Absolutely! That's the only thing that keeps us going.

 

Also, we are in one of the more "conservative" councils, apparently. So that sort of protects us from some of the weirdness, since the upper levels of the local Scouts apparently think some of the national ideas are ... umm ... not going to work really well.

 

You know, one of the other moms commented to me, "People may disagree about Boy Scouts' stand on some things, but at least everyone knows what they stand for -- they picked a stance and stuck to it. Girl Scouts keeps trying to shift around to be popular."

[CLHCO]

I've posted twice about the GS involvement with the Chaordic Commons, and no one has said a word. I was a member of another organization (still have strong ties) that is being torn apart by its involvement with this group (folks who started it). I'm really interested in hearing if you feel the GS is moving away from its core beliefs.

You know, I'm not at all familiar with this but from the Wikipedia description, it does sound a bit like them. I don't know if they are intentionally aligned with Chaordic Commons, since I'm very unfamiliar with what that even is.

 

I would say they were never quite to the same core beliefs as Boy Scouts was, in truth. They were a bit different from the onset, imo. When we started I just did it for fun and "socializing". It wasn't until the later years that I started hearing about any controversies or came across ways of doing things that really rubbed me wrong. However, there was still a lot of merit and we investigated controversies to my satisfaction then plugged away.

 

The Studio 2B is what took the biggest shift though. Suddenly it was all about "personal self discovery". What can I do for myself instead of what can I do for others? They had community service suggestions but they sounded like token things thrown in almost. Some of the new badges are also very shallow.

 

I suppose I agree in part with the loose guidelines. They've served me well too. However, if that continues with too many new "awards", the fact that some do poor work and get away with it in the name of fairness really waters down the value of the achievement. Thankfully, the gold and silver still stand strong.

[CLHCO]

My daughter is in American Heritage Girls and absolutely loves it. It's a great alternative!

 

http://www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=18722

 

Kris

I'm familiar with them but there isn't a group in my area and it's not something I'm up for starting. If one does start in the area there is a good chance that is the route my youngest will go instead. My relationship with the Girl Scouts has always been rather shaky.

[CLHCO]

You know, one of the other moms commented to me, "People may disagree about Boy Scouts' stand on some things, but at least everyone knows what they stand for -- they picked a stance and stuck to it. Girl Scouts keeps trying to shift around to be popular."

 

BINGO! I have heard so many people discuss the "agenda" of Girl Scouts. My reply is that they are giving the Girl Scouts way too much credit.

[In The Great White North]

I'm not familiar with the Chaordic Commons either but I had to laugh when I read the stuff about leaders. Most leaders are moms of Girl Scouts?? Shocking! Who would have thought it? And the programs they're discussing to "retain" leaders are NOT something any mom I know has the time or interest in attending.

 

The Girl Scouts moved away from their core beliefs 40 or 50 years ago.

 

Last year the Junior leader really had issues with making up your own requirements. She wanted to do everything EXACTLY as in the book. Sigh. It was tough, since some of the requirements are just plain dippy.

 

Bummer. That's why girls quit. I hope she "loosens up" even more next year.

 

She just felt that the requirements had been put there for a purpose, and if we didn't follow them we might end up saying we'd do something dumb like, say, watching hours of sitcoms (oh, oops, that's already a requirement!) instead of supposedly worthwhile activites.

 

I really think they were put there so everyone could do the badge. They can earn the travel badge without leaving their living room! They dumbed it down to the least common (and least interested) denominator.

[kpupg]

. I do think it is totally disorganized and likely to be even "fluffier" than it was before. That's why I think it is so important to be a leader. You can't just follow the program like the Boy Scouts. You have to read through the materials, translate them out of "politically correct-ese" and adapt them to meet your needs.

 

 

You are so right. This is the main reason I am an active assistant leader for my dd's troop. We have a great bunch of families, many of whom have kids in both Girl and Boy Scouting. The Boy Scout program is so superior, and we try to adapt our activities in that direction a lot of the time.

 

But no matter what the new program is, I am glad they ditched that nauseating 2B thing. Just in time for my dd to bridge to Cadettes :)

 

Karen

[Jenny in Atl]

I am not familiar with Chaordic Commons either. Tell us about your experience.

 

http://www.chaordicinitiatives.org/welcome.htm

 

Here is what's left of the original group. One of the CC founders now serves on the LLLI Board of Directors, and it's ripping the organization apart. I was curious because much of their influence is still alive with in GS.

 

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/leadership_from_the_inside_out.asp

[CLHCO]

http://www.chaordicinitiatives.org/welcome.htm

 

Here is what's left of the original group. One of the CC founders now serves on the LLLI Board of Directors, and it's ripping the organization apart. I was curious because much of their influence is still alive with in GS.

 

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/leadership_from_the_inside_out.asp

OK, that last link is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. And right before dinner too. I'll finish reading it all more closely later. I get the feeling our worldviews won't match.

 

My older daughters have almost gotten what they'd like from Girl Scouts. Just the Gold to go and they won't be doing much else. My youngest daughter isn't old enough. I don't know if I really feel like battling them for years again, especially with the unknown changes. Her brother is in boy scouts so she'll want to do something. I'll have to think about it all more.

[Fourmother]

Her brother is in boy scouts so she'll want to do something. I'll have to think about it all more.

 

This is exactly where I am. My boys are enjoying Cub Scouts and my daughter wants to do something. She's been tagging along behind her brothers and wants to have her own uniform and badges/awards to earn. I looked into American Heritage Girls, but I don't believe it would be a good fit for my family. There are no Campfire, Spiral or 4-H groups near me as far as I can tell. So in the fall my dd will be an individual Daisy scout working from both the Daisy materials and the Cub Scout Tiger manual.

 

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/l...inside_out.asp

Huh? I read this a couple times, and I still don't get it. It sounds like bunch of gobbledygook. Women have been creating, planning, and organizing all sorts of institutions for thousands of years. So why does GSA have to be a hot mess?

[GailV]

Her brother is in boy scouts so she'll want to do something. I'll have to think about it all more.

 

Doesn't Boy Scouts have some sort of family scout thing? I remember our troop leader from a few years ago was thinking about ditching GSUSA and doing something along those lines.

[In The Great White North]

Doesn't Boy Scouts have some sort of family scout thing? I remember our troop leader from a few years ago was thinking about ditching GSUSA and doing something along those lines

 

Venturing is co-ed but it doesn't start til 14.

 

Cub Scout camping is usually "family camping."

 

OK, that last link is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. And right before dinner too. I'll finish reading it all more closely later. I get the feeling our worldviews won't match.

 

 

Unfortunately, their "world views" haven't matched mine for awhile. And dd's see their brother (about to start his Eagle project) and want to do Scouts too. That's why I am a leader.

[skimerinkydo]

The older handbooks are full of interesting skills that actually produce something or make you more independent. These are readily available for under $5 on ebay.

 

The badge "requirements" are not requirements, they are suggestions. The official policy is to adapt the "requirements" so all girls can accomplish them... You can alter (or actually make up) "requirements" that support the general idea of the badge you are working on.

 

 

I'll have to look for an older handbook. Please tell me more about badges as suggestions and making up your own ... where is the official policy? I can see this information being useful in the future if want to adapt a badge and my co-leader wants to follow the book.

 

My older daughters are Juniors and I'm a Daisy leader for my youngest ... we are bridging to Brownies because there is no program ready for 1st grade Daisies. The Brownie try-its seem fine but some of the Junior badge requirements really bug me...some of them just seem...irrelevant?...maybe just not as useful as a comparable cub scout requirement?...I don't know, something about it bugs me.

[Mrs Mungo]

My daughter is in American Heritage Girls and absolutely loves it. It's a great alternative!

 

http://www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=18722

 

Kris

 

We did American Heritage Girls in NC. I was a leader for the 1-3 grade set. We really enjoyed it.

 

It is a Christian organization (just fyi in case anyone likes or dislikes that aspect) and it has to be founded within a church. The church has to cover the group on their insurance and everything.

 

I have read up a bit about the chaordic commons. It seems really odd that they are involved with both LLL and GS. Is this some sort of cult that's taking over women's organizations? It sounds really cultish-with the "owning membership" and all of that. I read the information on the LLLi page too and it seems too...vague, I guess...for my taste. I retired as a LLLLeader a few (several?) years ago but I hate to see the organization destroyed by something like this.

 

eta: have you seen this link? Little bit on the scary side and I'm no conspiracy theorist (quite the opposite)

http://www.kaospilot.dk/docs/showArticle.asp?Id=232

 

or this one from one of their operators?

http://www.christinewhitneysanchez.com/client_list

[In The Great White North]

Please tell me more about badges as suggestions and making up your own ... where is the official policy?

 

It was in the introduction of one of the books, either a badge book or a leader manual. I'll be gone for the next couple of weeks and can search when I get back.

 

There is definitely, in Juniors, a "Troop's Own" badge and in Cadette/Seniors an Interest Project, that you can make up for your troop.

[GailV]

The Brownie try-its seem fine but some of the Junior badge requirements really bug me...some of them just seem...irrelevant?...maybe just not as useful as a comparable cub scout requirement?...I don't know, something about it bugs me.

 

How funny -- I'm just the opposite! Many of the Try-It requirements seem like fluff and nonsense to me. I loved a lot of the Junior badges, though. Of course, part of that is because of the badges we were interested in -- the science badges, badges to do with camping and hiking. Also, we were incorporating them into our life and working on them individually (not as a troop), setting weekly goals and working on them as a family. If I viewed them through the lens of "how would I do this at meetings" I might feel differently. But I have great memories this year of setting up a walking program for us, doing scads of science experiments, dd researching and writing short papers on various subjects of interest to her, dd sketching local buildings with unique architecture, and on and on.

 

Another thought is that there are so many Junior badges in the current book, it's nearly impossible to get through them all in a couple of years. So we just focused on the ones that had some "oomph", and ignored some of the ones that seemed so dreadfully dippy.

 

(By the way, if you're wondering how my delight with the Junior badges in this post meshes with my earlier attitude towards changing the badges, that had to do with a specific incident regarding the Theater badge. I thought it would be cool to do a backstage tour of the Fabulous Fox theater as part of that badge, and our leader balked because it wasn't a specific badge requirement listed in the book. So, even though it would've been a great experience that added to the girls' overall knowledge of how theater works, we had to skip it. Aargh.)

 

ETA: Oh, and be sure to look for Council's Own Badges online -- you can get some cool badges from other councils that have some fairly decent thought put into them. We never got around to doing this ourselves, but we wanted to.

[Caroline]

When I was a Girl Scout, about 25-30 years ago, my mom was my troop leader from Brownies through Juniors. We were a city troop, and although we went camping twice a year at Camp Shadowbrook in Maryland, we weren't an outdoorsy sort of troop. We never concentrated on getting badges. It was more an opportunity to get together and learn things. I remember doing a babysitting class that my mom brought the Red Cross in to certify, I remember doing water safety, I remember attending symphony concerts, and visiting museums, and a whole variety of things. I know a lot of people think of Girl Scouting as hiking and camping, but I don't think my experience with it was any less valid or important. We just weren't into all of that. I do remember doing things in Baltimore at something called Stretching out. And I remember going backstage at the Kennedy Center. Oh, and we didn't wear uniforms. When I got to Cadets, the leader there decided we should wear uniforms. I rebelled, got demerits, and then I quit.

 

So my question is, do troop leaders not have the discretion to direct their troop in the direction that fits the troop? Or are their specific steps you have to take? Or maybe we were just bad Girl Scouts? I kind of doubt that as my mom's best friend, who help found the troop was given some big award by Girl Scouts of Central Maryland. I remember being able to be out late one night at Camp Illchester to see her get the award. She was completely surprised. It was very neat.

 

I guess I don't understand how Girl Scouts needs to be the same experience for all girls. I just thought that it was a starting off place, and the leaders were free to do with it what was right for their troop. I was all excited about starting a troop in a few years when my daughter is old enough, but if I have to follow some strict outline and try to get badges and stuff, I don't think I really want to. Maybe I'll just do what my neighbor did, and start a "field trip" club. (This field trip club earned this woman a huge contract with Coca Cola setting up field trips for visiting executives. Very cool.)

[GailV]

So my question is, do troop leaders not have the discretion to direct their troop in the direction that fits the troop? Or are their specific steps you have to take? Or maybe we were just bad Girl Scouts?

 

From what I've seen, the troops and Councils vary widely. There are troops that rarely work on badges at all. Some people prefer this, and some families are annoyed that they are in a troop that's like this.

 

Our leaders set the standard for what would be considered a uniform in our current troop. When we lived in Ohio hardly anyone ever wore their vest or sash; in our current troop just about everybody does. Our current troops request vest or sash along with khaki pants or skirt. In Ohio I'm not entirely sure everyone even owned a vest or sash -- it was really popular to just wear the pin on the little felt doodad (which we made ourselves instead of buying through GSUSA).

 

In Ohio we didn't work on that many badges; our current troops (Brownie and Junior) did a lot of badges. In both cases, though, the troops encouraged people to work on badges outside if they were interested. I have the impression some troops never mention this or people don't catch on that that's an option.

 

Our current troops expect parents to take turns helping lead the meetings. One of the moms used to be a troop leader where she was it -- the other parents barely had a clue what was going on (not by her choice).

 

I've been fascinated by the variation in paperwork I've had to submit for my kids to join a troop -- our Ohio council required different things than our Eastern Missouri council. And our current council said April Showers was a requirement, but dds and I don't recall it being a big deal in Ohio.

 

Our troop in Ohio blended everyone from Daisy up to Junior or Cadette in one big troop. Our current troops are separate but somehow interlocked (there's some GS term for it -- they all meet at the same time in the same building, but are separate meetings, except we do a lot of field trips and camping together, and work together on stuff).

 

BTW, our Junior troop here never did an actual "Junior" camping trip, partially because the leaders weren't camping sorts, nor were their daughters. The Juniors were invited to go on the Cadette camping trip, though, so it worked out that everyone could handle it as they chose -- some girls went, some didn't, it was all fine.

 

 

So, overall, GSUSA varies tremendously.

 

ETA: I'm vaguely aware that to go camping you have to have an adult that's certified for camping. Also, you need an adult who's certified for First Aid. So, yes, there are some basic requirements.

[CLHCO]

Jenny,

I'm looking into this more and did a search on one of your previous posts. I missed it the first time. Where does the letter here originate?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=263599#post263599

Is anything more direct like this online?

[Jenny in Atl]

Jenny,

I'm looking into this more and did a search on one of your previous posts. I missed it the first time. Where does the letter here originate?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=263599#post263599

Is anything more direct like this online?

 

Do you mean the Open Space letter? Here is the link to this group. Also a CC spin off.

http://www.openspaceworld.org/news/join-us/

 

Be ready to light some candles and gaze at your belly button. :lol:

[CLHCO]

Do you mean the Open Space letter? Here is the link to this group. Also a CC spin off.

http://www.openspaceworld.org/news/join-us/

 

Be ready to light some candles and gaze at your belly button. :lol:

I actually meant the letter with the direct link to Girl Scouts.

 

candles and belly button. You're too funny! :lol:

[Jenny in Atl]

I got it from a GS Leader. She is very unhappy about the changes. I'll tell her about the AH group you all have been talking about.