Dealing with Petulant Teen

[jen3kids]

Dh and I are really struggling with ds, 14. At times, he is wonderful, charming, helpful, kind, etc....

 

Most of the time, however, he is negative, self-centred, borderline-rude, bullies his little brother and sister, etc.

 

I'm wondering at what point my 'treat others as you want to be treated' mantra should be tossed out the window.

 

Example, "Please mow the lawn." "No!" and then after rudeness, grumpiness and a bazillion reasons why it doesn't need to be done now, the lawn gets finally gets mowed. Ds is now happy and pleasant (he's nearly always better when he's has some good physical activity), joking with me and all around pleasant. He asks to be taken to a friend's house. So, do I take him because there is no reason not to (other than he was rude earlier), or not (to 'teach him a lesson')?

 

Note, this isn't a one time thing, or a new behaviour. It has been going on for quite a while. It is cyclical, although I can't figure out the triggers. I know he's stressed about starting high school and he's got a big responsibility in his Scout troop that he really didn't want in the first place. But, none of that excuses his behaviour; it may help explain it, but certainly doesn't excuse it.

 

Dh has had enough of it and is coming down hard - not taking anything and not giving any slack. He confronts him on his behaviour, food choices, tone of voice, etc. Dh acknowledges being rude to ds, but figures that that is the type of treatment ds has earned since he treats everyone else so badly. It really bothers ds and I've talked to him about it. Ds figures dh 'doesn't love me because he doesn't treat little brother and sister that way' Well, honestly, the other two are not nasty, petulant, rude.

 

Sorry this has gotten so long, but it is tough road here and I'm trying to figure out the best way to deal with it.

 

So, does ds reap what has sown? Or, do we follow the golden rule, in spite of his behaviour?

 

Thanks for any advice, or even commiseration!

[Jean in Newcastle]

As the mom of a 14 year old son, I commiserate with what you are going through. Some thoughts, which may or may not help you in your situation.

 

1. Neither of my children are allowed to say "no" to what is a nicely worded command. I realize that some parents feel differently but I do believe that parental authority means that I (or my dh) can assign chores. I would sit all your children down and explain this. I would lay out for them consequences for what is direct disobedience. What works best for ds14 is losing computer time but your situation may be different. In our home he can be slightly grumpy about it but he cannot say "no". I say "slightly grumpy" because I do not allow slammed doors, verbal abuse etc. I would equate this to being asked (ie. told) to sweep the storeroom floor by a boss. You do not say "no" without consequence and do not have a fit without consequence either.

 

2. Because our expectations are laid out in advance, including consequences, there are no surprises for anyone and no accusations of pettiness. If the consequence was loss of computer time, I would enforce that but would still allow him to go to the friend's house. If the predetermined consequence was to stay home from the friend's house, then of course that would be the consequence. All of this is enforced without drama most of the time. If I do lose it, then I apologize for my rudeness but still enforce the predetermined consequence.

 

3. Occasionally something happens that was not predetermined. Instead of having him say "no" for example, he might sneak and go on to a gaming site instead of doing his school work. In that case, I tell him that there will be a consequence but that I need time to determine what it is. Then my husband or I let him know what the consequence is and we enforce it. There is no question in this case that it is for offenses that he knew darn well were against our rules. If for some reason he did not know (which is hard for me to imagine of a 14 year old unless I were really inconsistent) then I would have the first time serve as a warning.

[Chelle in MO]

I sympathize with you! When I read this to my dh, he said, "Are you sure you didn't write that post?" :lol:

 

Having lived through the worst of that attitude w/two teens boys, I can say I agree w/Jean.

 

I'll add, too, that my favorite phrase to repeat in my mind has become, "Calm. Confident. Consistent."

 

Calm means not engaging in the drama with the child. State your expectations in as few words as possible and walk away or otherwise divert your attention and do not get drawn back in.

 

Confident means knowing ahead of time that issues are going to arise and that you are the parent. You can handle them. Decide on general disciplinary guidelines and enforce them.

 

Consistent means that you can't be wishy-washy about enforcement. Grace--yes. Continual waffling--no.

 

Add to all that a generous dose of LOVE! It's a hard phase for everyone in the house!

[Mrs Mungo]

I have teens and no advice at this stage, *sigh*.

[acurtis75]

If you don't mind Christian material the book The Heart of Anger for teens by Paul Tripp is a great resource for dealing with attitude problems. I have use the book that is aimed at younger children frequently to discuss attitude issues with my much younger daughter.

 

I haven't btdt yet but I just want to encourage you to persevere. I'm visiting relatives for the holidays and having to deal with full grown adults who act just the way you described your son. When he's grown and out of the house he will appreciate your diligence in training him.....or at least other people in his life will.:)

 

ETA one thing I appreciate about the book is that it offers specific advice for parents on how not to "provoke your children to anger" or in other words how not to make it worse.

Edited November 28, 2011 by acurtis75@yahoo.com

[Haiku]

So, does ds reap what has sown? Or, do we follow the golden rule, in spite of his behaviour?

 

He reaps what he sows. Hey, ds, when you treat people like crap, it has consequences, a main one being that people respond in kind. Don't like it? Then don't provoke it.

 

The "Daddy doesn't love me" bit is self-pitying and I wouldn't indulge it.

 

My dd17 has lots of experience with the consequences of being unpleasant. I pull no punches when it comes to dealing with this. You treated me like crap and gave me attitude this morning and now you expect me to go out of my way for you? Sorry, no. What goes around, comes around, kid. I'm not nasty on purpose to punish her, but I make plain that if she's as much the adult as she says she is, she better step up when it comes to acting like an adult.

 

Proof positive: Last week dh stormed into the room while I was still sleeping and began *****ing at me about not having any clean underwear. (He doesn't usually act this way, btw.) I knew where there was clean underwear, but my response to him was, "Wake me up cursing about some perceived failing on my part? Yeah, I'm not helping you." I pulled the blankets up and turned my back on him. He found the underwear (rather obviously placed) and called me later to apologize for being an ass.

 

Tara

[*********]

Dh and I are really struggling with ds, 14. At times, he is wonderful, charming, helpful, kind, etc....

 

Most of the time, however, he is negative, self-centred, borderline-rude, bullies his little brother and sister, etc.

 

I'm wondering at what point my 'treat others as you want to be treated' mantra should be tossed out the window.

 

Example, "Please mow the lawn." "No!" and then after rudeness, grumpiness and a bazillion reasons why it doesn't need to be done now, the lawn gets finally gets mowed. Ds is now happy and pleasant (he's nearly always better when he's has some good physical activity), joking with me and all around pleasant. He asks to be taken to a friend's house. So, do I take him because there is no reason not to (other than he was rude earlier), or not (to 'teach him a lesson')?

 

Note, this isn't a one time thing, or a new behaviour. It has been going on for quite a while. It is cyclical, although I can't figure out the triggers. I know he's stressed about starting high school and he's got a big responsibility in his Scout troop that he really didn't want in the first place. But, none of that excuses his behaviour; it may help explain it, but certainly doesn't excuse it.

 

Dh has had enough of it and is coming down hard - not taking anything and not giving any slack. He confronts him on his behaviour, food choices, tone of voice, etc. Dh acknowledges being rude to ds, but figures that that is the type of treatment ds has earned since he treats everyone else so badly. It really bothers ds and I've talked to him about it. Ds figures dh 'doesn't love me because he doesn't treat little brother and sister that way' Well, honestly, the other two are not nasty, petulant, rude.

 

Sorry this has gotten so long, but it is tough road here and I'm trying to figure out the best way to deal with it.

 

So, does ds reap what has sown? Or, do we follow the golden rule, in spite of his behaviour?

 

Thanks for any advice, or even commiseration!

 

 

I don't have advice for you really, as my teenagers are my stepkids, who spend 1/3 of their time at my house; it's just different than what you're dealing with.

 

But, being a stepmom, :D, I was just curious about the bolded. Is your dh your ds's father, or stepfather? I only ask because the bolded sounds like something a stepson might say about his stepfather and his half/step siblings.

 

If not, feel free to ignore me. :)

[Trish]

Be pleasant, cheerful, even. But enforce consequences. For example, allowing him to bully his little brother and sister.

[jen3kids]

I don't have advice for you really, as my teenagers are my stepkids, who spend 1/3 of their time at my house; it's just different than what you're dealing with.

 

But, being a stepmom, :D, I was just curious about the bolded. Is your dh your ds's father, or stepfather? I only ask because the bolded sounds like something a stepson might say about his stepfather and his half/step siblings.

 

If not, feel free to ignore me. :)

 

 

No, bio dad. Honestly, dh is harder on older ds because of his behaviour. Younger ds and dd are pretty easy-going and compliant. We don't have to hard on them. However, all 3 dks get pretty much the same consequences for the same actions.

[jen3kids]

He reaps what he sows. Hey, ds, when you treat people like crap, it has consequences, a main one being that people respond in kind. Don't like it? Then don't provoke it.

 

The "Daddy doesn't love me" bit is self-pitying and I wouldn't indulge it.

 

My dd17 has lots of experience with the consequences of being unpleasant. I pull no punches when it comes to dealing with this. You treated me like crap and gave me attitude this morning and now you expect me to go out of my way for you? Sorry, no. What goes around, comes around, kid. I'm not nasty on purpose to punish her, but I make plain that if she's as much the adult as she says she is, she better step up when it comes to acting like an adult.

 

Proof positive: Last week dh stormed into the room while I was still sleeping and began *****ing at me about not having any clean underwear. (He doesn't usually act this way, btw.) I knew where there was clean underwear, but my response to him was, "Wake me up cursing about some perceived failing on my part? Yeah, I'm not helping you." I pulled the blankets up and turned my back on him. He found the underwear (rather obviously placed) and called me later to apologize for being an ass.

 

Tara

 

That's the stance dh likes to take, and perhaps I'm too much of a softie. I can't imagine responding like that. It goes totally against my nature.

 

We don't indulge the 'Dad doesn't love me' comments, but we do acknowledge it. Deep down, he knows his dad does love him, but it hurts him when he sees dh playing and goofing with the younger two and then growls at ds (with good reason, usually). I simply explain to him how his behaviour makes others feel and if he doesn't want that response from dad, then stop the behaviour. Dh and ds do spend positive time together and both are in good moods during and after. It's the day-to-day stuff that causes the friction.

Edited November 28, 2011 by jen3kids
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[kathymuggle]

I could have written you post (including two compliant, easy siblings) except the petulant one in our house is a 12 year old girl and the one who comes down hard on her is me!

 

Here is what has helped:

 

1. Figuring out the triggers. I am working on getting DD to recongnise her own triggers and divert herself before it becomes an issue. DD is very sensitive to noise. Our house is noisy. It irritate her until she starts snapping and being belligerent. She is also starving when she gets home from school. I literally greet her at the door to take the edge off her hunger - and I try to encourage her to go to her room to unwind when need be, or to listen to her own choice of music with ear phones on to muffle out the sounds of the house - if only for a few minutes.

 

2. I am trying hard not to argue with her. I state my expectation or case, will listen to her once (sometimes she is right!) but I will not engage in discussion after she has had a chance to be heard once. She does not like it as she feels I am not listening to her, but honestly:

 

1. It is my call and I am the adult

2. Walking away from an argument rather than engaging is better for our relationship.

 

Just because DD is acting like a petulant child does not mean I should!

 

3. Maybe you and your husband need to come sort of agreement on how to handle DS? In our house, I become impatient with her and play the heavy. Dh sits back and does very little. it is very frustrating. I am cast as the "bad guy" and DD is more likely to try and dismiss what I say because I am too strict (not true at all!) and Daddy does not mind her behaviour. I really need my husband to step up to the plate on her behaviour - he does not have to be as strict as me if the behaviour is not bothering him, but we will be stronger if we can present a untied front. This is a work in progress in our house.

 

4. Try hard to have some one on one time with all the kids and do activities with him he likes to do (even if it is playing Mario Cart).

 

good luck!

[JumpyTheFrog]

(he's nearly always better when he's has some good physical activity)

 

I haven't read any replies yet.

 

My boys are little, so I don't have experience with teenagers. However, if you know that exercise or hard physical labor improves his attitude, how can you make it part of the daily routine?

 

Also, does he get enough sleep? My 5 year old develops a real attitude and argues all day long if he is even a little short on sleep. If he gets enough, he's a totally different person. (The same happens if he gets hungry.) 14 year old boys are usually growing fast and probably need extra sleep.

[jen3kids]

Thanks so much to all of you. I really appreciate you all taking the time to commiserate and offer suggestions on dealing with this. It helps just to know that ds is not the only 14 year old doing this stuff!

 

I'm doing better at remaining calm, confident and consistent. I do lose my cool at times, but apologize later. My confidence waivers at times, but I'm pretty sure we're consistent with consequences (although I'll pay closer attention to make sure we aren't sending mixed messages)

 

Ds and I have some pretty good talks, but he's very private and doesn't like to show (what he perceives as) weakness. He opens up at the strangest times though - the last 30 second of a drive, just as a friend is arriving.

 

As for consequences, his new phone is his new love! Ugh, I hate the thing. He also does scouts and wrestling, but I'm hesitant about taking those away since he needs the activity - seems to thrive on it in a positive way, especially the wrestling.

 

Thanks again.

[Haiku]

It goes totally against my nature.

 

Well, I learned the hard way that if dd could both treat me rudely AND get what she wanted, she would choose rudeness nearly every time. When I started (after several years) holding her accountable, the rudeness dwindled considerably. Dd knows that I don't go out of my way for her if she treats me with no respect.

 

Tara

[georgialee]

I am not anywhere near the teenage stage yet, but I would not tolerate the bullying or either of my ds's saying 'no' to something I ask them to do. Have you tried placing specific consequences for the action? It may seem juvenile, but he'll know what the consequence to his action will be and can make the decision to be kind or unpleasant.

 

Also, if my ds was rude/belligerant/etc I would not be inclined to help him out the same day by driving him to his friends house. I would tend to reverse the situation - if he acts his age (in a good way, lol) and does chores - which is expected because he is part of the family - then of course you could find the time to drive him to his friends house. It sounds like he knows there won't be consequences and hour or two down the road and so doesn't bother.

 

I had to watch my mom go through this with my brother about 7 years ago and it was awful for her. They made it through and have a strong relationship now... I hope that gives you hope.

 

Hang in there!

[jen3kids]

I haven't read any replies yet.

 

My boys are little, so I don't have experience with teenagers. However, if you know that exercise or hard physical labor improves his attitude, how can you make it part of the daily routine?

 

Also, does he get enough sleep? My 5 year old develops a real attitude and argues all day long if he is even a little short on sleep. If he gets enough, he's a totally different person. (The same happens if he gets hungry.) 14 year old boys are usually growing fast and probably need extra sleep.

 

Yes, physical labour does improve his attitude, but living in the suburbs with little opportunity for physical labour makes it tricky. I have arranged for him to go a friend's house on Saturday to help split wood. Any physical activity is great for him. We went mtn biking on Friday and had a blast. He'll do P90x with dh sometimes too and he loves it. Wrestling is 2x week with tournaments on some weekends.

 

And, yes he needs more sleep. That is a definite. He has always needed more sleep than he gets, but he fights going to bed (has since he was a toddler!) We recently began a no tv after dinner rule and that has helped him get to bed earlier.

 

He also needs more food - it seems he is always hungry. It is insane how much he eats!