Losing my patience--trying to run a home and a school

[merry gardens]

I'm frustrated this morning. And I lost my patience with my boys. I'm not a perfect housekeeper. I never claimed be, but I have some standards. Trying to homeschool when our classroom/family room is a complete mess seems counter-productive to the task of trying to order their young minds, so I expect the children to clean up before we begin. As long as I stay on it and remind them daily before we start, the classroom has been mostly tidy this school year. The chores get done too, as long as I remind everyone constantly, and stand over them giving them explicit instructing. The bedrooms look tidy, but... Yikes!

 

 

Maybe most anyone who has ever lived with 10 and 12 yo boys will relate to this post, but need for such very explicit teaching of such very basics seems beyond typical.

 

Like many of you, I'm now reading the Dyslexic Advantage. The part about the need for explicit instruction stood out to me. That just about sums up the problem with chores and duties here. Basic household duties, that I expected normal people to learn just by living and observing others, I need to explicitly teach. I need to teach them over and over and over.

:banghead:

 

I flipped out this morning. Laundry day for my boys. I ask them to bring down their laundry. My very dyslexic boy brings down the whole hamper, (not the laundry--associated words but not the quite same.) Okay, I can work with it, even though I've told him many time before to take a clothes basket to the room so the hamper doesn't bang up the stairs. The problem today was their hamper is only about a third of the way filled. It's been two weeks since I did their laundry--but there was only one pair of underpants in the hamper. Ewww. I went looking for their dirty clothes. "Seek and ye shall find." I found the dirty clothes. The closet was full of them--and it smelled terrible.

 

So...it appears I need to give them some very explicit instruction on basic living. I've seen resources in special needs catalogs on some of this but I don't know if I need them. Anyway, I highly doubt that any pre-set instructions will go into the specifics of how I run our home. I don't really know what I need to do to teach this, but I need to do something.

 

I really had hoped that we could cover topics in our homeschool today like reading, writing, and math. Instead, today we will cover personal hygiene and housekeeping. In the long run, it's probably more important for their future that we work on hygiene today. Strangers won't know how my boys spell, but strangers will know if my boys smell.

Edited November 3, 2011 by merry gardens

[rwjx2khsmj]

:grouphug:

 

In my experience 10 and 12 year old girls can be just as hygiene challenged.

 

FWIW, I think that a lesson in personal hygiene is a worthwhile use of a morning. I hope you don't need to repeat the lesson for awhile.

[rafiki]

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[prairiewindmomma]

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Edited November 10, 2021 by prairiewindmomma

[Paintedlady]

Oh how I can relate! My dyslexic dd has be told in minute details (and sometimes my non dyslexic son as well) how to get these done that I never would've imagined.

 

My solution is to have 2 VERY detailed chore charts--one for their bedroom, and one for everything else. I list out detailed chores to be done and marked as completed. I found some colored cardboard punch out circles at a surplus store and applied some sticky velcro to them and the chart as an easy visual for all of us to know at a glance whether or not their daily chores were done. If they're not sure whether or not they're done I tell them to mark their chore chart and see if there's anything left to be completed. They seem to be motivated by seeing all of their colored circles up there and will point out to me when they have more on the chart than the other. Since they each have a different color it's easy to tell who's done what. Hth!

[PeterPan]

Merry, I forget, have you actually had these kids formally evaluated? See the things you're talking about are EF (executive function), not the dyslexia. You could also have some auditory processing, which I'll bet you already know. And you might also be a bit picky. ;)

 

Anyways, on the EF, yes it's downright unbelievable. Sigh.

 

But if you haven't gotten formal evals, it might be time, just so you can stop thinking it's *you* and see if there's anything to do about it. Some of this started clicking for dd during the VT when they were doing things that worked the EF part of the brain. So there is actually some stuff you can do therapeutically to help.

 

As far as how we deal with it, well I clean her room (as in *I* go in and do it) regularly. I shoot for once a month. I don't set a calendar or anything, but I just head that way and do it. But I don't do it the way she would. I do it by dumping all the clothes that are in inappropriate places onto her bed or floor. Sometimes I strip the bed to wash it and sweep the mattress (dust, fur, you know). Usually I'll clean the floor and get dust bunnies. I clean out all the closets and drawers in entirety, removing anything I don't want in there, dumping everything that shouldn't be there or is outgrown (no, I don't ask). I have a bin for trash and bin for removal to sort later. When I grow weary I just start dumping in the removal to sort later bin. I don't ask. And almost NEVER does she miss anything I remove like that.

 

We had a lot of fights over my method a few years ago. When she was smaller, she wasn't allowed to have anything in her room except clothes and a few books. Once she started having small toys or personal effects (plus snacks she'd sneak in, etc.), that's when it got horrendous. So at first I'd do the cleaning when she was gone. Now, finally, at age 12, she understands the process enough to sort of do it with me. Last time we did this we removed 3 large totes of stuff, agreeing to sort later, when we were cooler.

 

No, it's not fun, lol. But my method maintains the peace. I never ever yell at her over her room. I just go in and do it. And in so doing, she has learned how to be flexible and accept cleaning, how to let things go, and what it looks like to have it clean. I'm still not sure she could get it there by herself, but she's coming closer. It's a peaceful way of teaching them.

 

My other bit of advice is to simplify your expectations. I was really confused by your laundry requirements. The bin should be exactly where they take off their clothes. If you don't want them to carry a plastic bin through the hall, then give them bags. One step, simple, with lots of reminders.

 

My dd has a laundry cart on wheels. I gave up on the hall paint and trim looking nice, lol. Anyways, although the cart is right there, easily accessible in the bathroom, dd still puts her clothes on the floor. In fact, she's no better in her bathroom than the bedroom. So I try to visit her bathroom every day to see it's status and remind her if it has gotten too far. And periodically I do the same as to her bedroom, cleaning out every drawer and teaching her to deep clean the tub, etc.

 

I figure she's gonna have to learn flower arranging or something, cuz my kid would get fired on a custodial crew in college, lol. (I worked my way through college and did custodial on breaks, so this particularly flabbergasts me.) But you know, I've accepted it. We're on the slow haul, slowly building habits, and I'm not going to destroy the peace over it. To me it sounds like you've been doing pretty well overall. Just keep plugging away, patiently teaching...

[SweetMissMagnolia]

:grouphug: yep....my ds is getting to that age too.....some days his room just drives me nutz.....

[Critterfixer]

I read through your post, Merry, and it sounds like boys, not just specifically challenged boys. My DH would do that if I asked him to bring the laundry and there were stairs involved. (And there were plenty of guys I know who would do a smell test before deciding to brave the laundry machine.)

 

Just a thought--the more steps it takes to get something done, the less likely it is to get done. I'd cut out the hamper part of the deal entirely. A laundry basket in the bottom of the closet sounds like the best solution to having the clothes get to the washing machine some day.

Having one day a week that is "laundry day" is a staple in my house, even when I do laundry every day of the week. On laundry day, we wash sheets and blankets, so that ensures that the laundry basket does end up in the laundry room with any clothes that might have been missed at other times. (Socks, underwear--I think they have spontaneous generational powers.)

[alpidarkomama]

My kids are younger (ages 4-8), but I definitely do very explicit chore training and don't assume they'll just catch on. Depending on the chore and the kid, I might do it with them 4-10 times before they get it just right (more or less!). Every month I kind of pick a chore or area to focus on with all of them and train them how to do that particular chore. It's worked pretty well so far for mirrors/windows, bathrooms, dishwasher, and laundry. Next, I'd love to get them in a clean-bedroom routine!!!!! :tongue_smilie:

[merry gardens]

Thanks everyone!

 

Now I'm going out shopping for a new, tall laundry basket to double as a hamper that we'll in their closet. Yes, the decorative hamper with a lid that requires lifting and a separate laundry basket appears to be too many steps for our laundry procedures. Time to simplify. :)

[burleygirl]

Dyslexia affects executive functioning. At my daughter's previous school, private school for students with learning disabilities, they worked on executive functioning skills. My daughter is 13 and still unable to 'clean' her room. She hoards items. I generally do not tell her she has to clean her room but I inform her she cannot have guests over or visit someone else unless her room is clean. By clean I mean: I can walk in without tripping over items on the floor, I can see the top of her desk, and there are no items stuffed underneath her bed. When the room gets unbearable I go in and purge without her help. Usually she stands there whining and fussing saying she needs whatever it is I am trashing; however, I ignore her and continue with my process. She does not like this but it starts to smell which is unacceptable.

 

She is all the time losing items (books, clothes, shoes, socks, etc) in that room. I am the one who has to find it when she can't locate it herself which brings her to tears. So I try to insist that she put all items back in the designated place - this is a daily reminder. I read the book, Smart but Scattered which was rather helpful.

[Jennifer-72]

I am not sure if this will be much use to you since ds is only turning 7 this month, but we have been having such great success with this system for chores and routines. First, I show and walk ds thru the routine and take pictures of him doing it. Second, I have him sort out the pictures into the correct order and have him help me come up with the checklist. Next to each item on the checklist is a bull’s-eye with the center circle labeled “bull’s eyeâ€, the second circle labeled “almost thereâ€, the third “working on it†and the last circle labeled “needs attentionâ€. Ds then does the task while I watch and fills in which circle he thinks matches his performance. I then evaluate the steps as well and give him some feedback. Once he has done the routine several times with bull’s eyes for each step I start to fade the check list.

 

The bull’s eye has been so helpful for ds. Of course, I assumed that ds would always just fill in the bull’s eye circle. But he does pause while filling it out to check his work and sometimes even goes back and fix something.

[merry gardens]

Thank you everyone! The new laundry basket/hamper is in their closet now.

 

I just read about procedural memory in The Dyslexic Advantage. You ladies are right on top of that with your activities and suggestions! I know my ds has memory problems---I just forget that his memory problems come into play anytime/anyplace where he hasn't learned a skill to mastery. Multi-step processes certainly don't help the situation either.

 

In "true dyslexic-advantage form", ds 10 came up with the idea of building a laundry chute from their bedroom to the laundry room. I believe he'd be able to design and build something like that eventually.

 

I probably need to re-evaluate some of our household chores to eliminate unneccessary steps and then teach those chores to mastery. Okay, that may not look like traditional school, but it is neccesary learning. Doing that might help my children learn how to learn, based on their own personal learning styles. Thinking about this further, I could involve my children in the process of looking for ways to help simplfy tasks as we explore why we do what we do. Hmmm. I need to give that idea some more thought.

[PeterPan]

Sounds like you're on the right path! :)

[peacefully]

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[PeterPan]

Yllek, didn't you say he's also ADHD? The EF issues with that might explain it. But truly, my dd is standing here asking why you WOULDN'T hang a shirt in those places, lol. Oy. Oh, she just explained it. She said you come out with your shirt and hang it there so you can get dressed while your oatmeal cooks. Yeah right. :lol: Oh, she says it's already out there, advanced planning. Whew.

 

Seriously, my dh is dyslexic but NOT ADHD, and his clothes end up in the closet or hamper, every day. Yup. And he's male.

 

Ok, it sounds like I'm being nitpicky on this, and I'm not trying to be. I'm just pointing out that if it's EF/ADHD issues causing the messiness, etc., that's different from saying the dyslexia caused it. The Eides use dyslexic processing very loosely and globally, but the fact remains that kids probably have more labels and that even the Eides use those labels very carefully (reading disorder, disorder of written expression, ADHD, etc.). So if the op thinks all this is caused by dyslexia, she could be missing the rest of the picture. So yes, I guess that's nitpicking. But I think it's helpful to have the right labels, because when you have the right labels you can see the ramifications.

Edited November 4, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[merry gardens]

Yllek, didn't you say he's also ADHD? The EF issues with that might explain it. But truly, my dd is standing here asking why you WOULDN'T hang a shirt in those places, lol. Oy. Oh, she just explained it. She said you come out with your shirt and hang it there so you can get dressed while your oatmeal cooks. Yeah right. :lol: Oh, she says it's already out there, advanced planning. Whew.

 

Seriously, my dh is dyslexic but NOT ADHD, and his clothes end up in the closet or hamper, every day. Yup. And he's male.

 

Ok, it sounds like I'm being nitpicky on this, and I'm not trying to be. I'm just pointing out that if it's EF/ADHD issues causing the messiness, etc., that's different from saying the dyslexia caused it. The Eides use dyslexic processing very loosely and globally, but the fact remains that kids probably have more labels and that even the Eides use those labels very carefully (reading disorder, disorder of written expression, ADHD, etc.). So if the op thinks all this is caused by dyslexia, she could be missing the rest of the picture. So yes, I guess that's nitpicking. But I think it's helpful to have the right labels, because when you have the right labels you can see the ramifications.

Overall, the room appeared fairly neat--the problem was I went looking in their closet for the missing dirty clothes. ;) If you ever visit my home, don't expect a tour of any of the closets. But thanks anyway for starting that internet rumor that I have high housekeeping standards. :D (Oh, and it's also very nice of you to put your dh clothes in the hamper every day for him. :lol: Just kidding--I know some men can do that; my dad was neater than my mom.)

 

Labels may or may not help, depending on what's done with them. (I have a label over one hamper that says "dirty clothes"--and it doesn't always help.:tongue_smilie:)When reading about learning disorders in books and on websites, I've looked at "executive function disorder checklists" and ADHD several times. Both sons earn some checkmarks but not enough to put an EF diagnosis on them. Yes, there are attentional issues too. Again, not sure if there are enough for an ADHD diagnosis, but there are issues. Even without the label, I want to work on the areas where we need improvement.

Edited November 4, 2011 by merry gardens

[merry gardens]

Okay, I spent a good part of the morning talking with my children about chores and dyslexia and learning styles and a whole host of topics. (We're all fluid thinkers-- trains of thoughts headed in every direction!) I discovered another procedural problem that contributed to difficulty with chores and ultimately to my frustration. In the interest of "fairness" I had created a schedule that rotated chores between three of them. Just when they had almost learned how to do it well, they switched. Then they started all over again re-learning a different chore for the week, with mom frustrated that I always had to remind them to do the chore and how to do it "right". We talked specifics about the three chores that I want done every morning. Turns out that with three children and three chores, they each had one (or two) that they liked and one (or two) that they didn't like--and--get this-- if I assign everyone a chore they like, all the chores can get done by someone who knows how to do it without my having to give instructions!

:party:

 

 

Yes, those three children of mine know how to do the three chores I want done every morning! They don't each know all three chores separately, but together they do! They can work via specialization. That way the chores get done and the children are reasonably happy with the chore they are assigned! Who would have thought???? :lol:

[Tiramisu]

Dyslexia affects executive functioning. At my daughter's previous school, private school for students with learning disabilities, they worked on executive functioning skills. My daughter is 13 and still unable to 'clean' her room. She hoards items. I generally do not tell her she has to clean her room but I inform her she cannot have guests over or visit someone else unless her room is clean. By clean I mean: I can walk in without tripping over items on the floor, I can see the top of her desk, and there are no items stuffed underneath her bed. When the room gets unbearable I go in and purge without her help. Usually she stands there whining and fussing saying she needs whatever it is I am trashing; however, I ignore her and continue with my process. She does not like this but it starts to smell which is unacceptable.

 

She is all the time losing items (books, clothes, shoes, socks, etc) in that room. I am the one who has to find it when she can't locate it herself which brings her to tears. So I try to insist that she put all items back in the designated place - this is a daily reminder. I read the book, Smart but Scattered which was rather helpful.

 

This is EXACTLY like me with one dd. Spooky.

 

Just sympathizing...I don't have a dyslexic but one with other issues, sensory is definitely in there, anxiety, maybe EF but I'm not sure about that one. Her room is such a disaster all of the time. It could be spotless after I clean it, and by the next morning you may not be able to see the floor, because if she needs something she seems to not know where to look and then everything gets flung around. We opted to get rid of her dresser, that wasn't a sturdy one to begin with, because the drawers wound up on the floor too frequently and it was so hard to put them back in. Now we have baskets that fit in a shelf, but they also end up on the floor upside-down a good part of the time. Then I have to try to figure out what's clean and what's not. It's really exhausting. I just can't keep up. Trying to develop her organizational skills would be a full-time job, but I have the rest of the kids and the house to try to manage as best I can.

 

I would like to really get rid of all the clothes and things she doesn't use so there's less to make a mess of, and then try to get hold of a very sturdy dresser.

 

 

For this particular dc, the structure of school has been wonderful. She seems to be doing well despite her organizational problems and is well-liked by her teachers and other students, which is an unbelievable relief to me. I do wish she'd try to look nicer for school, but I can't wage a battle on every front. Clothes clean, hair brushed, homework done, kiss, have a nice day.

 

FWIW, my high schooler was a real mess but somewhere around 14 or 15 she became much more organized. Then, I have one who loves to clean and organize for fun. I'm not quite sure where those genes came from, perhaps her German grandmother.

[Paintedlady]

This is EXACTLY like me with one dd. Spooky.

 

Just sympathizing...I don't have a dyslexic but one with other issues, sensory is definitely in there, anxiety, maybe EF but I'm not sure about that one. Her room is such a disaster all of the time. It could be spotless after I clean it, and by the next morning you may not be able to see the floor, because if she needs something she seems to not know where to look and then everything gets flung around. We opted to get rid of her dresser, that wasn't a sturdy one to begin with, because the drawers wound up on the floor too frequently and it was so hard to put them back in. Now we have baskets that fit in a shelf, but they also end up on the floor upside-down a good part of the time. Then I have to try to figure out what's clean and what's not. It's really exhausting. I just can't keep up. Trying to develop her organizational skills would be a full-time job, but I have the rest of the kids and the house to try to manage as best I can.

 

I would like to really get rid of all the clothes and things she doesn't use so there's less to make a mess of, and then try to get hold of a very sturdy dresser.

 

 

For this particular dc, the structure of school has been wonderful. She seems to be doing well despite her organizational problems and is well-liked by her teachers and other students, which is an unbelievable relief to me. I do wish she'd try to look nicer for school, but I can't wage a battle on every front. Clothes clean, hair brushed, homework done, kiss, have a nice day.

 

FWIW, my high schooler was a real mess but somewhere around 14 or 15 she became much more organized. Then, I have one who loves to clean and organize for fun. I'm not quite sure where those genes came from, perhaps her German grandmother.

 

This sounds so much like my dd! I finally made the decision to get rid of her desk, which was just a junk collector, along with 7-8 bags of other "stuff" that we decided to store away for now. The idea being that we could help her be better organized if she didn't have as much stuff to contend with. Helping her keep her room in decent shape is a nightmare!

[Critterfixer]

Whenever anybody finds a solution for keeping a boys dresser organized, let me know, 'kay?:tongue_smilie:

[rafiki]

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[PeterPan]

Kelli--You'll chuckle to know my dd, the one whose room I have to clean, enjoys cleaning and organizing other spaces like the pantry or refrigerator. Go figure. ;)

 

Merry--You're onto something there with modifying your chore rotations. The Duggars rotate chores for very long periods of time (month, quarter, I forget). They call them jurisdictions, but it's the same idea. Let each person be responsible for one area and let them do it long enough that they really figure out how and get the routine of it. They also work on a little thing with noticing things, and they try to reward that. It might be just enough to fill in the gaps in your cleaning. For instance Michelle D. told this story on one of the shows about how they dropped a crumpled paper on the floor and awarded a copy of their book to the attendee who took the time to notice that paper and pick it up and put it in the trash. There's a lot of stuff in our home that falls in that category, kwim? But anyways, it sounds like you're doing some very good thinking about how to restructure things to make them work better. That's great!

[PeterPan]

Merry, I don't know how to say this more politely, but the things you're describing are indicative of EF problems. There's a certain amount that goes naturally with LD's. In fact, the line is so blurry that, according to this Fletcher book I'm reading, back in the 80's they actually lumped ADHD and LD's like dyslexia into one category and called it Minimal Brain Dysfunction. Thanks, that's a pretty label, lol.

 

So they keep trying to parse it. The reality is that if your kids have these issues, they need honest answers. Nuts, you need honest answers. You on the one hand say it won't get diagnosed, and then you tell us not only your living problems but how most of you have minds prone to wander. Your clan is probably much more diagnosable than you realize. And it might be that understanding what's going on (which is what the neuropsych does) and the DEGREE of it (the other thing the neuropsych does) would be very freeing. I know my dd doesn't appreciate people implying she's bad. Unless there's a REASON, your only conclusion (and the dc's only conclusion about himself) is that he's bad. And dyslexia alone does NOT answer this.

 

And no, I don't put my dh's clothes in his hamper. He does it himself. Because he remembers. And he's dyslexic. ;)

[peacefully]

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[rafiki]

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[PeterPan]

Yeah, I haven't got a CLUE where that oatmeal thing came from (what part of the brain) or how that could be normal. But it is in their world apparently, lol. I think Michele said her ds's came with scores on EF, so she could actually *compare* them. That would be interesting to compare your ds's and dh's, since they used the same psych.

 

The other curious thing to me is that Fletcher designates extremely little space in his book on learning disabilities to EF, even though he lists it as one of the causes of reading comprehension issues, writing problems, etc. I need to keep reading. I was just looking up EF, because that's what we were talking about. I don't know what would happen if I looked up components like working memory or sequencing, etc. Nope, just checked, and it's only 3 hits with a few pages each. Just fascinates me. Even when he lists EF/ADHD as one of the possible causes to consider in a problem, he usually puts it farther down on the list. He had stats for a study of kids diagnosed with disorder of written expression, and EF/ADHD as the cause was much less common (only 25% of the cases). He says the EF in writing causes issues with organization, planning, and evaluating. Most of the cases of disorder of written expression were caused by phonology and word retrieval issues. But that's a rabbit trail and has nothing to do with a clean room! I'm on page 242 there btw.