A few (hopefully quick!) MCT questions

[veggiegal]

Thinking about getting MCT to do with older beginning in the new year. Language arts (esp. writing) is not a natural love for him (nor me), though we both love to read. I'm wondering about a few things:

 

1 - Is the program secular?

 

2 - How 'American-ized' is it? For example, this year we've been working through an Evan Moor Paragraph Writing book, and one of the 'compare and contrast' style paragraphs asked him to compare two US Presidents: Lincoln and Washington. This is not helpful for my Canadian kid, who I want focused on his writing kills and paragraph structure, not doing research. :tongue_smilie:Fortunately most of the book (so far) is not like this, and asks for writing on topics most kids in most cultures would have some familiarity with. Does MCT assume / require the child to be well-versed in American culture?

 

3 - How teacher-intense is it, and how much time do you spend on it over a week? Is it teacher intense where I need to read the manual ahead of time and prep stuff (a la Nebel's BFSU), or is it teacher intense like AAS? (I need to be there for the lesson, but virtually no prep ahead of time is required).

 

4 - Do you like and use all components of the MCT program equally? What do you consider to be the most valuable of the bunch? Would you advise buying the whole set for Island level at once, or just a book or two and trying it out?

 

5 - Has anyone taught two kids at slightly different levels from the same books at the same time? Would a 7 year old (as younger will turn in January) who is a fluent reader be able to cope with at least some parts of Island level?

[Spy Car]

Thinking about getting MCT to do with older beginning in the new year. Language arts (esp. writing) is not a natural love for him (nor me), though we both love to read. I'm wondering about a few things:

 

1 - Is the program secular?

 

Yes.

 

2 - How 'American-ized' is it? For example, this year we've been working through an Evan Moor Paragraph Writing book, and one of the 'compare and contrast' style paragraphs asked him to compare two US Presidents: Lincoln and Washington. This is not helpful for my Canadian kid, who I want focused on his writing kills and paragraph structure, not doing research. :tongue_smilie:Fortunately most of the book (so far) is not like this, and asks for writing on topics most kids in most cultures would have some familiarity with. Does MCT assume / require the child to be well-versed in American culture?

 

It assumes no knowledge (thus far) of American culture, but it might help to know something about fish ;)

 

3 - How teacher-intense is it, and how much time do you spend on it over a week? Is it teacher intense where I need to read the manual ahead of time and prep stuff (a la Nebel's BFSU), or is it teacher intense like AAS? (I need to be there for the lesson, but virtually no prep ahead of time is required).

 

Thus far (Island Level) the learning style is "teacher intensive" (as in fully teacher involved) but not teacher "intense." It is mostly reading and discussion based. Good fun.

 

4 - Do you like and use all components of the MCT program equally? What do you consider to be the most valuable of the bunch? Would you advise buying the whole set for Island level at once, or just a book or two and trying it out?

 

I use all the components and would not give up any of them. I would get them all.

 

5 - Has anyone taught two kids at slightly different levels from the same books at the same time? Would a 7 year old (as younger will turn in January) who is a fluent reader be able to cope with at least some parts of Island level?

 

I only have one child, but we started Island on his seventh birthday and it was a smash hit. For us (as I believe is true of others, particularly boys, of this age) the writing elements of Island are a little advanced for a 7 year old, but the rest was perfect. I am glad we started "early" (even if I had to hold back some writing assignments) vs waiting. I think discussing what makes good writing, something MCT makes a strong point of discussion, will serve as a seed-planting experience.

 

In addition the poetry book is inspired, but I will consider the first pass being for "exposure" rather than "mastery" as some of the topics are pretty sophisticated.

 

The grammar and vocabulary was spot-on for my son level-wise. He quickly went from knowing virtually nothing about formal grammar to really being confident with the four level analysis. I was (am) pretty stunned how effective MCT has been for teaching him grammar, and it has done so in a fun way.

 

Love it!

 

Bill

[Dolphin]

Check out Satori Smiles

 

She has an AMAZING blog and she writes all about MCT. It will answer a lot of your questions. She has photos of the books, and she has even published her schedule for using MCT.

 

Give it a look see. We really like it, but are not very far into it. I don't think it is overly religious or american, but again, we only just started.

[radiobrain]

 

I don't think it is overly religious or american, but again, we only just started.

 

It is totally secular. If MCT uses any quotes or references, it will be from classic literature, not a religious text. I can't remember if Island has any of that... sorry.

[Maus]

5 - Has anyone taught two kids at slightly different levels from the same books at the same time? Would a 7 year old (as younger will turn in January) who is a fluent reader be able to cope with at least some parts of Island level?

I'm currently using it (Island level) simultaneously for my just turned 7 DD and my about to turn 9 DS. We've finished Grammar Island, are about a third of the way through Sentence Island, and about a chapter into Building Language. (They are almost exactly two years apart in age, but are working only one year apart in grade level -- she's pretty solidly in 2nd grade material and he's 3rdish, more all over the place.)

 

It's going quite well. The children aren't perfectly even. DD7 doesn't like 4-level analysis and relies on her brother to tell her the answers, but she is a bit younger than the recommended age.

 

They are enjoying the story. There's a fun part where the book (Grammar) recommends assigning two children to each take one side of the dialog, and they loved that (though after a bit, my son tired of reading aloud.)

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

Yes.

 

 

 

It assumes no knowledge (thus far) of American culture, but it might help to know something about fish ;)

 

 

 

Thus far (Island Level) the learning style is "teacher intensive" (as in fully teacher involved) but not teacher "intense." It is mostly reading and discussion based. Good fun.

 

 

 

I use all the components and would not give up any of them. I would get them all.

 

 

 

I only have one child, but we started Island on his seventh birthday and it was a smash hit. For us (as I believe is true of others, particularly boys, of this age) the writing elements of Island are a little advanced for a 7 year old, but the rest was perfect. I am glad we started "early" (even if I had to hold back some writing assignments) vs waiting. I think discussing what makes good writing, something MCT makes a strong point of discussion, will serve as a seed-planting experience.

 

In addition the poetry book is inspired, but I will consider the first pass being for "exposure" rather than "mastery" as some of the topics are pretty sophisticated.

 

The grammar and vocabulary was spot-on for my son level-wise. He quickly went from knowing virtually nothing about formal grammar to really being confident with the four level analysis. I was (am) pretty stunned how effective MCT has been for teaching him grammar, and it has done so in a fun way.

 

Love it!

 

Bill

 

:iagree: with everything Bill said. I used the Island level this past year with my 1st and 3rd grade boys. My 1st grader was an advanced reader but a very active boy with a short attention span. They both did *great*. It really held their attention and they loved the 'sit on the couch, read a fun book, and talk together' approach. They were both enthusiastic about all the books.

 

We didn't do the writing assignments (though we loved the book) because I found them to be very ambitious for us--too creative and open-ended. I am using the writing instruction from Writing With Ease and IEW for actual writing assignments instead. I can't believe the four-level grammar analysis that the boys are capable of now. The poetry book was amazing, but I agree that it should be treated as an introduction rather than trying to master the concepts. We are just starting the Town level, and all of the grammar is reviewed as well as all the poetry concepts.

[acurtis75]

I doesn't require advance prep but it works best if you read and discuss together. In my case, dd liked the book so much she read it all the first day so we just reviewed and discussed it a few pages at a time. Satori smiles schedule is great for planning all the books. We moved a bit faster for grammar island & the beginning of practice island but then are following the schedule for sentence island, moth & building language. There are activities in the book that are written for more than one student so teaching two at the same time should be fine. I really like the material but as I mentioned on another thread I see it more as a supplement. I know some people use it as a stand alone but it's not quite structured enough for my taste. Of course, fll3 is more structured than I like so we use a combination of both and it's a nice balance.

[GingerPoppy]

You're in Canada? Are you planning to order directly from them, or have you found another way to get your hands on the books without the sky-high shipping? I'm thinking of ordering, too. I wonder if we can find a way to do this more cheaply. Do any online Canadian stores carry them? What if we found a group of Canadians willing to buy together--would it save money in the long run?

[veggiegal]

Yes, I'm in Canada. I was going to ask my local homeschool store (CHER in Calgary--Canadian Home Education Resources) if they were planning to carry it. But if not, I'll just suck up the shipping. In Alberta we get funding for curricula and classes and things so the shipping--though high and annoying--isn't a deal-breaker.

 

That said, if there is a large enough group of Canadians who want to order, maybe we could work something out. And I certainly will post here if I find a Canadian store carrying MCT. Hope others will too.

[veggiegal]

Thanks much for all your replies. You've allayed my main fears and we're going to give MCT a try. I must admit to being intrigued when folks here who I've come to trust and respect recommend it; and the description of using "Socratic questioning" from their website is right up my alley. I did both an MA and BA in philosophy, and Socratic questions are part of my natural teaching style. And fortunately my boys both respond well to it too! :D

 

Thanks again.

[Five More Minutes]

Yes, I'm in Canada. I was going to ask my local homeschool store (CHER in Calgary--Canadian Home Education Resources) if they were planning to carry it. But if not, I'll just suck up the shipping. In Alberta we get funding for curricula and classes and things so the shipping--though high and annoying--isn't a deal-breaker.

 

That said, if there is a large enough group of Canadians who want to order, maybe we could work something out. And I certainly will post here if I find a Canadian store carrying MCT. Hope others will too.

That would be wonderful. I've asked a local supplier (Blue Mantle) if they plan on carrying MCT, but no reply thus far. (I'll post here when I hear back from them.

 

If there is a Canadian group buy, count me in!

[Roadrunner]

We started with a 6.5 year old. Agree with what everybody said. The grammar portion is appropriate for a young kid and so is the vocab book. We aren't even going to attempt the writing portion now, but you can get creative here. One of the first assignments was to write a story when one only speaks subjects and another predicates (I hope I remember this correctly). We did this orally. I was the subject guy and my son was a predicate guy. Let's just say, we rolled in laughter for a long time. So, you can play with those assignments, but a typical 7 year old isn't likely to write a 10 sentence story. Poetry is great, but completely went over my son's head. We will read it again this summer and again the summer after :)

I also think grammar retention was great because there was so much discussion involved. He did GWG and retained nothing. I know now it was my fault. If I ever go back to supplement with GWG, I am going to bring a lot of oral practice in addition to penciling in answers.

So, the answer is yes, it's completely secular, not country specific and a good chunk can be done by a young kid.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Sounds interesting. So the writing portion isn't so great? If so, that's a bummer to hear. Is there a story line? Does is use fables? Literature? I'd like to know specifically, if possible. The more specifics the better. Thank you so much!

[Roadrunner]

Sounds interesting. So the writing portion isn't so great? If so, that's a bummer to hear. Is there a story line? Does is use fables? Literature? I'd like to know specifically, if possible. The more specifics the better. Thank you so much!

 

Oh no, the writing portion in the Island is wonderful, but intended for 9 year olds (the entire Island level is grade 3). We were just saying it's tough for 7 year old (or 6 in our case).

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Q. Roughly how long does doing MCT take your child a day? Does anyone use this with multiple children? I'm wondering if this is feasible with four children here.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Oh no, the writing portion in the Island is wonderful, but intended for 9 year olds (the entire Island level is grade 3). We were just saying it's tough for 7 year old (or 6 in our case).

 

Thanks! My oldest is in third grade and he won't be 9 until Summer 2012! When are you all planning to start the writing portion?

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Can we talk Ceasar's English? What is it? Latin? I really am not into philosphy. Is that a bent? Sorry for all the questions!

[Roadrunner]

Thanks! My oldest is in third grade and he won't be 9 until Summer 2012! When are you all planning to start the writing portion?

 

We are doing the Island level and my boy is in the 1st grade, so I am planning to wait until summer 2013 (he will be 8) to do writing assignments and then move on to the next level. Your son should be able to handle it.

[Spy Car]

Sounds interesting. So the writing portion isn't so great? If so, that's a bummer to hear. Is there a story line? Does is use fables? Literature? I'd like to know specifically, if possible. The more specifics the better. Thank you so much!

 

Oh no, the writing portion in the Island is wonderful, but intended for 9 year olds (the entire Island level is grade 3). We were just saying it's tough for 7 year old (or 6 in our case).

 

:iagree:

 

There is nothing at all wrong with the writing portion of Island level. It is just ahead of my 7 year old. Island level was not written for 7 year olds. That said, the rest of it (with poetry for "exposure") was great for my child at this age.

 

I struggled with wait...don't wait. In the end I am glad we started when we did. Others might prefer to wait until their children are on-level for the writing.

 

We will just complete the writing portions when he is ready, and "discuss" the ideas in the meantime.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Thanks much for all your replies. You've allayed my main fears and we're going to give MCT a try. I must admit to being intrigued when folks here who I've come to trust and respect recommend it; and the description of using "Socratic questioning" from their website is right up my alley. I did both an MA and BA in philosophy, and Socratic questions are part of my natural teaching style. And fortunately my boys both respond well to it too! :D

 

Thanks again.

 

From what I've gleaned about you reading your posts I'm pretty confident this will be your thing.

 

Bill