HELP dd attitude, starting high school and what we are using--- Veterans please help

[lori in tx]

MY dd is going into high school next year, and she came down yesterday and asked me a question about the co-op classes she is taking in the fall. She asked me if she finds she is too stressed with "home" work and co-op "work" can she drop a class. This kid complained this year the last two weeks about being so stressed, I hate to inform the dear sweetie that the last two weeks this year we had finished so much that it was nothing compared to the beginning of the year.

 

How do you get across to your kid it is time to put on your big girl panties and do your work, life is not easy and sometimes borderlines on difficult and not just fun and games. She has always been the type of kid who will put it in the least amount of effort with school to get the desired result. She is a great kid but I get so frustrated with her lack of effort, if it is not dance she puts in very little effort (of course we have not been able to afford dance classes in over a year). This is the kid that I caught (when she was 8yo) crying about math while looking in the mirror to see which was the more pitiful face, was she really crying nope it was an episode of math drama(with math especially she dwells so much on hating it that she has issues doing it, it would be easy for her if she got over the hating aspect of it and just do it).

 

So I guess what I am needing is to be assured I am not asking to much and advice on how to handle this. I honestly don't understand why she thinks she is so stressed geez she is done with school by 2:00 most days and that is with us starting at 10:00 and an hour lunch break. This year she had two co-op classes with a grand total of 1.5 hours of homework a week, geez I had that much at least per day in public school middle school.

 

Our classes we are taking next year at co-op are: Abeka Biology (about 3-4 hours of hw per week), Pyschology (1 semester course probably 1 hour of hw at the most per week) and Debate (1 semester 1 hour or time to prep per week) the last two classes she choose and she will take 2 fun classes. Classes for home are:

 

PreAlgebra(she is behind in math because of the dwelling on the stress of math drama she preforms when we learn something new :glare:)

Ancient History (TOG we customized this to fit us I require 3 lit books per 9 week term and history reading every week and a history scholar type page and maybe a project every units something arty and done with the others a lot of the time)

Language Arts Vocabulary Vine, Daily Grams and grammar and writing (grammar will be done 2 times a week and writing will be done everyday for about 15 min.)

Geography geography drill from Trail guide to World Geography and the map work (she can do it in about 10-15 min per day and be done at the end of the week)

Government We are doing govt during the election year and it will last 1/2 the semester (probably need to spend about 30 min per day)

 

 

As you can see she is not taking a foreign language or anything like that, I thought about it but I don't think I could handle the drama this year.

 

 

Any suggestions? This year I can see school taking about, with co-op homework, about 6 hours per day. Last fall she complained about her work taking so much time until I did a poll and she read that most kids were doing about 2 hours more time doing work than she was :001_huh: The really sad thing out of the whole thing is I have 2 boys that are younger who rarely complain about the work asked of them, her brother who is a year younger is about to catch her in math because I am not going to hold him back and he has learning disabilities (no she does not except for her attitude of hating math so much prevents her from doing it). I mean there are things out there, especially in school, that you hate and you just do because you have to to get to the end result of a diploma.

 

thanks for reading my question/rant/vent. If you can help I would grately appreciate it.

blessings

lori

 

[Liza Q]

My older daughters get very stressed sometimes but they realize that High School is just plain hard work. Maybe it helps that several of their friends are in school and they see the work as inescapable.

 

When my 2nd daughter was in 8th grade we talked quite a bit about trying school. Not that I wanted her to but I thought that, if she really wanted to, it would be a good time to make the transition. She thought about it and decided that she would rather stay home for High School. She figured that she would have the same amount of work but she could get it done more quickly at home - she really values her free time!

 

So, does she have any friends in school? Comparing her life and homework time/free time to kids in school may be illuminating!

[RoughCollie]

I went to our school system's website to see which courses they require for each year, and I read the handbook, too.

 

It said that high school students do an average of 3 hours of homework a night. I showed the kids the required courses, the school day schedule, and the bit about homework.

 

That took the onus off of me. Big Bad Mom wasn't saying that school would take 6-9 hours a day -- that's just reality.

 

Then I checked out a bunch of schools in our area -- public, private, and Ivy League, and I showed the boys the admission requirements.

 

They understand what is going on. It remains to be seen whether they will buckle down and do the work in the alloted time instead of wasting time and making school fill every waking hour.

 

I also told them my personal little story. After I spent years working full-time and going to college, and then went to law school, I was glad that part of my life was over because it had been so difficult. Nearly everyone I knew dismissed my accomplishments, saying it had been easy for me to do because I loved studying and I am smart.

 

Quite the contrary. I did not like going to school at all. I did not like having to study my tail off all the time -- there is a big opportunity cost for an adult, and I had to take plenty of courses that did not interest me except as a path towards getting my degree and being able to have a career.

 

My kids were stunned, is the only word I can think of to describe their reaction. They were laboring under the mistaken impression that smart people never have to study (they are smart, hence not much studying required), and that if they do, it is because they love what they are learning.

 

They've gotten their dose of reality. I hope it changes their attitudes. Charm, looks, and brains will get someone, who thinks World of Warcraft or Red Sox baseball are vastly more important than education, a job at McDonald's.

 

I also bought a book called The Teenager's Guide to the Real World, by Marshall Brain. http://www.bygpub.com/books/tg2rw/tg2rwtoc.htm

 

My kids have already started reading it. He says the same things I do, but I'm hoping they will listen to him in areas where they already think I'm working with diminished brain capacity.

 

I also borrowed a book from the library, which was recommended here: The Overachievers: The Secret Lives of Driven Kids, by Alexandra Robbins. I am not interested in pushing my kids to be overachievers or in allowing them to become so stressed out that they cannot function happily and well in their daily lives.

 

RC

[mcconnellboys]

I would have a stern conversation with her about growing up, sucking it up with the math attitude, and putting forth more effort. I would not cut a thing from this schedule as I don't think it looks at all excessive. If she wants more time, she needs to concentrate and do her work more quickly and efficiently, then she'll have more time.

 

Is she young for a ninth grader? Could this be just a maturity issue? If so, then maybe she does need more time to catch up to her age group. But otherwise, I agree with RC that you should show her what other typical high schoolers will be doing and give her the option to do what you have scheduled, or follow that schedule, instead....

[Katrina]

Wow...I think I have your dd's twin. She stresses out about EVERYTHING, and is a touch lazy, so it adds to her stress because she makes things harder than they are and then has to do them over again.

 

I don't know if I have any pearls of wisdom here, but I sympathize with what your going through. I think sometimes she worries that she can't do things right, so she'd rather not try than fail.

[Kareni]

Lori,

 

You might be interested in reading this recent thread about self-motivation. Some of your concerns were also addressed there.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29093

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Chris in VA]

To me, your dd's schedule looks extremely light. Are the classes listed just what you are doing at home, and there are other ones she has at co-op that you didn't list?

 

Just 3 hours for class at eighth grade, with no homework? Really?:blink:

And she's complaining? Does she have lots of chores, or a volunteer position, or some interests to pursue (you mentioned dance, which she isn't currently doing)?

 

Is college in her future? You will want that foreign language, b/c without it, her options are limited as to what college would accept her.

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, really, I don't. But she has a big wake up call coming. I sometimes find kids who are used to doing a lot, do a lot, and those who are used to a lot of free time or who have to meet fewer expectations, feel burdened by the thought of giving up their time or working harder.

[LisaCA]

Is she taking 10 classes over the course of the year?

Even if they don't have much homework, just the thought of spreading my attention to that many subjects, much less doing any in-depth study of them would be overwhelming at any age.

 

I can sympathize with you, as I have similar challenges with my DD's, but sometimes I really have to step back and view their situation through their very different eyes.

 

Maybe she could help you put together the lesson plan book so she could "see" (now she is viewing things from your perspective) how little you are asking.

 

She may need to experience some solid smaller victories in her schoolwork before having the confidence to move onto bigger things. Looking at herself in the mirror may have meant she was not confident in being able to adequately convey her strong feelings to you.

 

People become really quite remarkable when they start thinking that they can do things. When they believe in themselves they have the first secret of success.

Norman Vincent Peale

[lori in tx]

To me, your dd's schedule looks extremely light. Are the classes listed just what you are doing at home, and there are other ones she has at co-op that you didn't list?

 

Just 3 hours for class at eighth grade, with no homework? Really?:blink:

And she's complaining? Does she have lots of chores, or a volunteer position, or some interests to pursue (you mentioned dance, which she isn't currently doing)?

 

Is college in her future? You will want that foreign language, b/c without it, her options are limited as to what college would accept her.

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, really, I don't. But she has a big wake up call coming. I sometimes find kids who are used to doing a lot, do a lot, and those who are used to a lot of free time or who have to meet fewer expectations, feel burdened by the thought of giving up their time or working harder.

 

 

You might have missed it in my novel of a post but here is the co-op classes she is taking

 

Our classes we are taking next year at co-op are: Abeka Biology (about 3-4 hours of hw per week), Pyschology (1 semester course probably 1 hour of hw at the most per week) and Debate (1 semester 1 hour or time to prep per week) the last two classes she choose and she will take 2 fun classes.

 

thanks, she does not have any outside obligations as we have only one car and dh needs it during his work week

thanks

lori

[Anne]

The summer before one of my dds began high school work was very traumatic. I outlined my expectations and goals for her and she almost came unglued. She thought my goals were way too high and that she could never meet them.

 

There was a lot of drama...

 

I shed many tears in private, wondering if I *was* overdoing it...

 

Fast forward a few years: She has completed her first year in the honors program at college, and maintained the necessary gpa to keep her generous scholarship.

 

My advice is to hold her feet to the fire and encourage her to the highest standard of work that you believe her capable of. Give her as many choices as you can: e.g., she can do this math or that math; this literature or that literature, but she will do math and literature.

 

Also, find as many ways as possible to pour love into her heart: walks, talks, going out for a treat, helping her do something she really wants. She needs to see that you believe her desires are important and that you're on her team.

 

Anne

[Chris in VA]

I'm sorry, I did see your co-op list and meant to edit my post (or delete it!) but was called away!

 

I totally take back what I said--not a light schedule at all for next year. I would even consider having her drop a class or two at the co-op--Maybe psychology and a "fun" class? 10 seems like a lot. Most high schoolers here have either 4 one semester and 4 different ones next semester, or 7 classes, with 1 scheduled everyday for 45 mins and the others scheduled every other day for 90 mins, all year. Not that that should be the standard.

 

 

 

I totally second Anne's post about pouring love into her! Keep that relationship going.

[mcconnellboys]

I thought a lot of the things you listed were either semester long classes, or things that took only 15 minutes a day (like geography and writing), or things done only a couple of times a week (grammar). If I write this all down and look at it, it doesn't look that stringent to me, *unless* you have her doing all those things in the *same* semester, rather than some first semester and some second semester...? That would change my response....

[lori in tx]

I thought a lot of the things you listed were either semester long classes, or things that took only 15 minutes a day (like geography and writing), or things done only a couple of times a week (grammar). If I write this all down and look at it, it doesn't look that stringent to me, *unless* you have her doing all those things in the *same* semester, rather than some first semester and some second semester...? That would change my response....

 

Right the semester classes are: government, debate and pychology and some thing like governement (which is a home class) will be replaced with another class in the spring that will take = to less amount of time.

thanks

lori

[NancyL]

Lori- If your daughter is 13 she may be slightly on the young side, still. They do change quite a bit throughout the High school years, they do 180 degree flips on some things. I would say that she may need more time to be ready for college. Quality work is always better than adquate quantity but with poor grades. Mine started out kind of slowly and didn't finish many of her 9th grade classes until the summer or even the following Christmas! But her grades were almost perfect, and when she applied to college the transcript was a tad thin, but adequate. (SAT scores are also very important for the late bloomer) She had a very tough senior year. She ages up the first week of October, so she turned 15 October of 9th grade year, so this is probably older than your dd.(and she still had varying degrees of slugness) As these were external classes she could take her time. When she tried a couple at the HS she had a hard time getting things in on time, and she got some terrible marks because she "didn't follow directions" or the group project was a bust. At a school you don't realize what's happening until the bad grade gets posted, and then its too late. At least you are in a position to help her while the helping can still help. I had to do a lot of relaxation breathing exercises! I just told myself that she may need to spend another year at home if she couldn't finish HS. (it probably would have been OK) Now that she is in college she is hardly home, she's at an academy, and we only see her for about 2-4 weeks a year total depending on the year. I think her senior year she did Precalculus, trig and Calculus--that was ugly. She has done well in college and learned a pretty good lesson. The plus side is that her sister observed how bad it was at the end, and is determined to do better, earlier. By dragging out the work they are showing you that they are immature in this area, at least for now. You can try different incentives, each one will last for a short time, and you will have to try a different one. Try to minimize distractions if possible. As a last resort her dad took her in to work and she spent several weeks sitting in the conference room by herself. Keep it upbeat, because these are the last conversations you will have on a daily basis--once they go to college, they really are gone. You want them to have good memories!--you will have a long time to regret any angry words spoken. I totally sympathize!!!

[mcconnellboys]

So you do plan *all* of those for the same (fall) semester? If so, then I do think that sounds like it could be quite a lot for her. I originally thought you meant that, for instance, government would be replaced by debate and psychology by the other class - so two classes per semester vs. four....

[lori in tx]

So you do plan *all* of those for the same (fall) semester? If so, then I do think that sounds like it could be quite a lot for her. I originally thought you meant that, for instance, government would be replaced by debate and psychology by the other class - so two classes per semester vs. four....

 

Government will be at home and everyday, debate and pyschology are outside classes at co-op for 10 weeks, in fact I am not sure those classes will log enough hours to be a 1/4th of a credit. Does that explain it a little more clearer?

thanks

lori

[Pamela H in Texas]

I haven't read the responses but honestly? I'd just tell her that she has a choice. She can do her work dutifully (even happily) or she can do it miserably. But that it's not up for discussion because she's got a lighter load than many kids and you have no doubt she can handle it. She may not make YOU miserable about it. Bad attitudes are bedroom behavior, not family room behavior (at least that is what I always thought!).

 

You can't make her like school but if she's only doing 3 hours per day? either she is really bright and fast or she's got it EASY.

 

Of course, you also need to keep the gentle, loving part of your relationship with her going. This is a key time in her life and she needs you to be there for her.

 

It's a balance. YOu don't want to alienate her but she has no right to make you miserable and she's actually making herself more miserable than she has to be in the process.

 

BTW, what IS she doing with the rest of the 12+ hours she's up every day? It may be that the bar is set so low she can't help but think herself incapable and stressed about it. Is she working? volunteering? learning things of interest? It is really not a good thing for teens to have too much time to think "oh how hard my life is." Life right now can be SO neat, challenging, interesting. Make sure that is how she is getting to experience it.

 

BTW, and thanks because you just helped me BIG time with my own balance question regarding my own daughter who does enjoy being busy, a lot of volunteer work, and a good workload also :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Lori,

 

I think it looks like a lot if you list everything out, but time wise it doesn't seem like much at all. What kind of time do you think the at home classes will take her?

 

Another idea....if she's 13 (presumably 14 sometime in summer or fall?), what about a gap year to boost her confidence, her workload when it's not counting as heavily yet, etc? Since she's young for her grade (again, assuming she's still 13) AND a little behind at least in math, it could be really helpful. And that extra edge may be just what she needs to excel, soar, in high school.

 

Of course, judge it carefully. Like my other post said, you don't want to be telling her she's incapable. Light work, holding back, etc could very well do that and you don't want THAT either. This year probably needs to be one of her toughest, regardless of grade level, to show her how capable she is, that high school IS hard work, that hard work is rewarded, etc.

 

(LOL, my hubby just told me it's raining in Tokyo and 51 degrees in Anchorage. I needed this information WHY?)

[PollyOR]

Mom, you know her best. At the same time, she is a girl. Personality + hormones = interesting parenting ;)

 

Personally, I have an almost 13 yodd who has completely taken us by surprise this spring. She is our mild mannered obedient child. We had no idea anything was wrong with her until she recently told us she is depressed. She wants quiet, doesn't like to be touched, and gets very stressed in crowds to the point of tears.

 

The reason I'm sharing our experience is because maybe "suck it up" is not what a young girl experiencing growing up/hormonal changes needs to hear. I for one have no problem with crowds, so it is hard for me to understand how my daughter feels. But, to her, the stress is very real. I have to remind myself of that or else I become impatient with her. I deal with SAD during the winter and I feel awful when people are impatient with me because I look okay on the outside.

 

Just a different perspective.:grouphug:

[Langhaven]

I have seen in both my high schoolers that 9th is quite a transition to make. We went from TOG dialectic to rhetoric level and this was really big. It took ds a semester to catch on without burning the midnight oil to get things done. Some of it is teaching time management skills. I wouldn't let up on the schedule but use it to refine her to anticipate and work through the crunch. She'll need it if she is college bound and for life skills later.

 

That being said, debate is very time consuming... This would be the area that I would keep my eye on, if she starts to legitimately wilt.

 

Just my .02

[lori in tx]

Ohhh she is 14yo she turned 14yo in April, I need to go and change that :)

[mcconnellboys]

I agree! If she's a year younger than average, she may just need time to catch up to her grade, maturity-wise!

[lori in tx]

I agree! If she's a year younger than average, she may just need time to catch up to her grade, maturity-wise!

 

THanks Regina for helping me with this thread!

[SallyMac]

I can so sympathize with your daughter (but not her attitude). All I wanted to do, all I cared about when I was your daughter's age was dancing. AND I despised math. (Hint: I am not a mathy person...some people will never be). It sounds like a combination of personality, stage (hormones), and mismatched curriculum.

 

Maybe you should switch her math curriculum to something more suited to her. I noticed on your website than she will be doing Saxon Algebra 1/2, so I assume she has been doing Saxon before??? Saxon can be frustrating for nonmathy, dramatic types. It is not for everyone. Perhaps Lial, Teaching Textbooks, or Life of Fred would be more interesting to her and cause her less frustration? But also remind her that much of dance is physics and math. I learned this dancing to Bach...you have to count as you dance or you get completely lost. And being a professional dancer takes an incredible amount of discipline. Sometimes you are so sore and injured, but you still have to take 6 hours of class daily, 2 hours of rehearsal, and then the performance. It's the same thing with math...it's not always easy, but you just have to calm down, suck it up, and keep trying.

 

To help her mature and lessen the power struggle, perhaps she could volunteer one afternoon per week or on the weekend to be an assistant at a dance school (with the pre-school age group)? This would give her some responsibility and community service hours and at the same time be an opportunity for her to be around something she loves. In return the school might let her take free classes. No power struggle/added cooperation, free classes, gained responsibility/maturity...everybody wins. She might gain a different perspective of herself as more mature, contributing member of society.

 

In place of one of the electives classes that she is resisting, you could do art appreciation. There is a book called Ballet Art: From the Renaissance to the Present by Mary Clarke and Clement Crisp. This would complement her study of World History.

 

Maybe next year she can take a class at your closest community college to give her a taste of what others are doing and the amount of work that's expected. It may be a real eye opener for her.