Do you change programs when your dc complain? Not sure what to do about CLE LA! GWG?

[5sweeties]

Ok, so we started using CLE Language Arts this spring. (This is our first full year of homeschooling, and I found that Rod and Staff was not a good fit.) We did finish the year of Rod and Staff around the end of March, and then we switched to CLE.

 

I love CLE! I love how it puts everything together and streamlines everything! I love how clearly it lays out ideas and concepts so that my dc can understand and refer back to lessons. However, my 10yo dd, begs to differ. My 8yo doesn't really like it either, and for the same reasons... They both think that the lessons are way, way too long. This morning my 10yo did a 6 page lesson and it took her well over an hour. She says that she would rather have multiple programs that hop around, to keep her interested, rather than have a long lesson in one format. FWIW, they are both really good at grammer concepts and spelling, and the levels I started them out at, are almost entirely review, but it hasn't made a difference. I'm wondering what will happen next year, when we forge into new territory.

 

Splitting the lessons in half, really won't work. They need the same amount of time for those subjects each day...but they want it more broken up. Not the time broken up, but the materials. Over the course of most of the year, they used Sequential Spelling, Rod and Staff, and Zaner-Bloser to cover these same subjects.

 

I know that GWG is out there, and yes, it looks totally great...but then I would have to add spelling for both and handwriting for my 8yo.

 

This short spell with CLE, and then over the summer, was my trial-run period.

 

I want to start the school year next fall, with the "right" thing, and then stick with it forever and ever and ever and ever! OK, maybe wishful thinking, but still. I do not like to hop around with things. My brain doesn't function well that way. I feel like I either need to tell my dd's that we are sticking with it, and that they just have to get it done and get used to it, or I need to switch during the summer and be done with it.

 

What do you do when children complain about a program that you know is working well, but they just don't like it?? To switch or not to switch, that is the question!:confused:

[TracyR]

Okay . You said daughters , and they are 10 and 8. Let me tell you I have 10 and 8yr old daughters as well . And no matter what I use or what I do they complain . They would just love it if I let them play all day actually . I don't switch for complaining . But I do switch if it causes crying , or if I begin to hear " Mom I'm stupid" those are my exceptions . Complaining , well , they are just going to do that no matter what we use .

 

Is there a way to pick and chose problems out of the lessons ? I know I do this quite a bit with some of our subjects . Having my girls do evens or odds . If they get it we move on . If they don't , well if I assigned evens they can do odds and visa versa . 6 pages seems like alot .

 

Have you joined the Christian Light Families group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristianLightFamilies ?There are lots of veteran CLE moms there ( plus a CLE rep ) that can give you lots of ideas on how to make the subjects doable for younger children .

I am like you . I don't like skipping around too much either . I always feel like I have to start from the beginning with a different curriculum because they all have different scope and sequences

[5sweeties]

Thanks Tracy!

 

Yes, I'm on that group, but haven't asked the question there yet. I need to. I never even thought about the odds or evens thing. Thanks for the input!

[ticklbee]

I listen to what my dc's have to say and try to put myself in their place and see if their concerns are valid. Then I balance that with my observations and how well they are learning and then make a decision.

 

I can only think of one instance of when I actually changed curriculum based on dd's complaint. And after hearing what she had to say and observing her closely, I saw that she was right.

 

If my dc's can back up a complaint with valid reasons I will certainly listen. If they can't or won't then I won't even consider it.

 

We have to balance our desire for learning to be enjoyable with teaching our children perseverance. It's certainly not easy! :tongue_smilie:

 

Ultimately you are the only one able to decide what's best. Talk it over with dc's and if you decide to stay the course, just let them know that you've heard what they had to say and really considered it but for right now it's best that they continue using what they are using. And if they don't continue to complain about it, give it their best effort, but still feel the same way by (you give a date here), then you will reconsider it. Maybe it will be a bit easier for them if they know they can plead their case again.

 

HTH! :001_smile:

[Tami]

I agree with the other posters, and an hour for all language arts components is certainly not unreasonable.

 

If you decide you want to shorten the lessons, I would suggest skipping spelling and cutting down on penmanship.

 

HTH!

[PeterPan]

Well I switched grammar programs for complaining, and I'm glad I did. My dd may not love grammar, but she doesn't normally COMPLAIN about subjects. I put her in Shurley grammar and now she does it without complaint. I'm not saying she's in love, but it solved the problem. It involves really short lessons btw, and I don't do the whole thing. I have to agree with your girls, that, to me, one hour doing 6 (wowsers) pages out of a workbook would just be tedious and life-sucking. I LIKE grammar, but that just sounds monotonous.

 

It doesn't seem like you're comparing apples to apples, if you go from CLE LA (a complete LA covering all the topics like reading, writing, etc., right?) to just a grammar program like GWG. And I don't see how GWG, while fine, is so immensely different from R&S as to resolve whatever reasons R&S didn't work for you. My two cents is to look at BJU. You could do the BJU LA and have all your components. It has reasonable lessons, will break things up, and works with a variety of learning styles. You can see extensive samples on their website http://www.bjup.com If you're wanting JUST grammar, you'd have more options. But that would mean going the ecclectic/piecemeal route you weren't interested in. (WT2 for both girls plus JAG, or put your older in AG and your younger in FLL4, both girls doing WT2 or IEW) But if you want it all in one place, dependable sequence, no jumping, works for a variety of learning styles, I'd look at something like BJU. It's not what I do, but it's what I would do with that need. We're using the BJU math, science, and music and like them a lot, so much that it makes me always peek to see what else might turn out to be a good fit for us. They just seem to really nail certain kids and how they think, what they enjoy. They have the color, the context, the extra tidbits. It's the sugar that helps the medicine go down. Sometimes even COLOR can make a huge difference, don't discount it.

[Tami]

I have to agree with your girls, that, to me, one hour doing 6 (wowsers) pages out of a workbook would just be tedious and life-sucking. I LIKE grammar, but that just sounds monotonous.

 

I just wanted to clarify that CLE does NOT spend an hour on grammar. CLE covers not only grammar but spelling, penmanship, writing, and research skills. So to compare time spent on CLE fairly, you would have to add up all of those language arts components. We have used CLE all year, finishing in April, and a lesson has never taken over 40 minutes.

 

CLE LA takes us about 40 minutes and we are completely done with LA for the day. It took way longer than that doing separate spelling, writing, grammar, and penmanship. Plus all the time shuffling finding books, pages, and etc.

 

I have BJU, and it has much less review and diagramming than CLE. THis could be the good or bad news depending on your learner. Also have Easy Grammar, and we had poor retention with that.

 

I do love Shurley and used that as our foundation. I think Shurley would be great to combine kids, so it may save time in the end, if saving time is the main goal. I think most kids could use a year or two of Shurley under their belts before moving to traditional grammar.

 

Oh, and my dd will complain no matter what the LA program so you have to know your kiddo!

[MerryAtHope]

I might switch...depends :). If they are not prone to complaining, I probably would take their complaints seriously. And I would sit down with each of them to get a better sense of what might match their styles better, while still working with my style. While not everything can be fun, I do think children learn better if they are actually enjoying the subject, because that means it has captured their interest and they are likely applying themselves more instead of just trudging through, hoping to be finished.

 

If you decide, based on a few talks with them, to change, I recommend making your lists & then looking at samples together whenever possible. Download online samples and try actually doing the pages with them. The more you can get them to understand how they learn, and you can understand how they learn and how you teach, the more likely you'll be to find a program that is a good fit. Pray about it :). Merry :-)

[Peela]

I have been through this issue and I am glad I switched. For us it was R&S. I probably could have kept my younger on it, and he would have benefited from the repetition. But my older was losing her spirit, her enthusiasm, for her favourite subject....she is an articulate and happy student most of the time and R&S was too dry for her. She thrived on CW for quite a while.

I guess it depends how much your kids normally complain and what your goals are. It was important to me that my happy natured, cooperative, capable dd enjoyed her LA, so as to keep her euthusiasm up for the subject. I actually work hard finding the right programs for her and she doesnt always enjoy them (such as AG now) but she does appreciate that I try to get her programs that fit her personality.

it is one of the benefits of homeschooling, as long as you have an income that can support it.

In hindsite, I would have kept my son on R&S and just changed my dd, but I didnt realise at the time that he would complain about just about everything anyway :) although he did thrive on CW too for a while (I stopped due to burnout for ME).

 

I have a friend though whose daughters have done Saxon Maths and R&S ENglish for years, because the mum trusts TWTM recommendations and knows they are solid programs, and that's it. The kids have surrendered. Its all ok. In the end, I am not sure its worth worrying about. But my own preference is to have the kids well matched to their curricula.

[Quiver0f10]

Can you break it up during the day? Maybe she could do 3 pages first then, work on some other subjects, then come back and finish the last 3 pages. Thay way it wont seem so overwhelming, but it still gets done.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Okay . You said daughters , and they are 10 and 8. Let me tell you I have 10 and 8yr old daughters as well . And no matter what I use or what I do they complain . They would just love it if I let them play all day actually . I don't switch for complaining . But I do switch if it causes crying , or if I begin to hear " Mom I'm stupid" those are my exceptions . Complaining , well , they are just going to do that no matter what we use .

 

There are days when my dd will pick a battle. Any battle. It has been my experience that it is rarely, if ever, the curriculum. We use CLE for LA, math and reading and the longest lesson I could find was 4 pages in math but there is also a full half page just introducing the new concept and lots of workspace. I defintely do not think the work is too much. However, there are often times dd will spend an hour or more on it due to dawdling and attitude. It works, I like it, so in this instance I will not switch.

[Josie]

I almost never change because of complaining. My thought behind this is that if they were in school they would have to do it whether they liked it or not. Continue that thought with they will go to college and won't be able to change texts if they don't like it. Going on...they will have jobs where they don't like something...no changing there. Plus, it is sometimes good for the character to have to stick with something you don't like.

 

Now, all the above is true if the program is working as far a teaching what it needs to teach. I don't see the point in going on with something if it isn't working.

 

I know people who change just because Suzie and Joey don't like the text/book/whatever. These people almost never get through any book. I don't think that is a good example for the child.

[SnowWhite]

IMO, your daughters have a point. I believe CLE Language Arts *is* indeed very boring for the most part. (speaking as a successful graduate of CLE Language Arts and other subjects)

 

If you are interested in a full LA program which pulls together a variety of resources and schedules them for you, WinterPromise has a nice solid one.

 

I think it's quite sad that we would take a subject which should be full of joyful reading of appealing literature and rewarding expression of one's own ideas through writing and reduce it to a workbook study that takes an hour and makes our children dread it.

[summer]

If they rarely complain and likely are being reasonable, then it is possible that the lessons are simply too long and in need of change. If they typically complain all the time about this stuff, then I would not change at all.

[summer]

I want to add that even though if these books were in the public or private schools, they would just have to do it, has a fallacy. You see, in public or private, chances are, half the book would not be completed. Each lesson would maybe have only odds or evens assigned. You get the idea. The last few chapters would never get touched on. Chapters that have content that the teacher did not feel were as important would be completely skipped over. And most of all, I have yet to see a public or private school that would use something as hardworking as CLE or Rod and Staff, let alone do every single problem of every single page.

[5sweeties]

CLE LA 4, Light unit 405, section1, lesson 1, is indeed, 5 3/4 pages long. I went back to count, since I never actually did...just took her word on it.

 

Thank you so much everyone for all of your wonderful comments and insight. These two dd's are not complainers...so that is what made me really think about it. They both really enjoy grammer too. Anyway, I'll take all the comments and really think it through, and then pray about what to do next. Right now, I'm actually thinking about Learning Adventures for next year. Maybe even Winter Promise. My oldest is such a "brainy" kid...and I was just following along with the others...but the other girls (not my son...he's more like my oldest dd) are the more artistic type. They think differently, and maybe they need materials that are presented in a very different manner. However, I love CLE, and what and how it teaches. I've just got to think on this for awhile. Thank goodness for summer break!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you to every who contributed. So much great wisdom in one place!