I need some help thinking through our days WRT DD6 versus DD9's school load

[melissel]

Here's the problem I'm having, and I'm not sure how to work it out.

 

DD9's workload is fairly heavy, and it is all teacher-intensive stuff. When I'm working with her, either I'm talking, she's talking, or she's concentrating on something I've just asked her to do. Take RightStart Math, for example. Either she's doing drill sheets, we're playing a game, or I'm directly teaching her. There are a few minutes at the end of the lesson where she may be completing a worksheet, but I can't walk away during that time or I lose her, and it's less than 10 minutes anyway.

 

My goal for this year is to start teaching at 9 a.m. and finish by 2 p.m. (at the latest). But I'm not sure how to work DD6 (very newly 6) into this schedule. She cannot manage to keep herself occupied long enough for me to get more than a subject at a time done with DD9. DD6's work requires me sitting beside her too, which is obviously no problem for DD9. But the majority of the school day belongs to DD9, and I can't figure out how to direct DD6 during that time. She wants to sit in the room with us and craft/color but can't stop herself from humming or whispering to herself. If she's painting or playing with Play-Doh, she's making banging/splashing/clunking noises or walking around getting supplies/extra paper. Often, she'll ask me for school-y stuff to do, but it will take her three minutes and then she'll be back at my side, stage-whispering questions or thoughts. I feel terrible banishing her to another section of the house for such long periods. But if I let DD9 walk away to give DD6 time periodically, it's hard to pull her back into the school mindset every time.

 

I don't know, I'm stuck. I thought this would get better with age, but it really hasn't. Now we've lost a few things that used to buy us some time--long baths, naps, etc.

 

WWYD? How would you handle/have you handled this?

 

TIA!

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

:bigear: I could also use some advice in this area. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when ds2.5 stops napping (yes, I know that may be quite a while from now, but I'm a long term planner :001_smile:)

[Grover]

:bigear: I could also use some advice in this area. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when ds2.5 stops napping (yes, I know that may be quite a while from now, but I'm a long term planner :001_smile:)

It might not be very long at all... neither of my guys made it to 2.5 still having naps ;)

 

Could you set up a work box system for her with things for her to choose, and set her up at the table near you (maybe her own table). She'll still make some noise but surely your DD9 could learn to deal with that... it's not like working in a perfectly quiet environment would be the norm in 'real' life - work force or wherever. Perhaps you could wean your DD9 off needing your direct supervision and presence while working on worksheets too - talk about integrity and what you expect of her when you are not right there, and lots of praise for independent work. That would give you one minute, working up to 10 minutes to spend with DD6 getting her started on something. Maybe even a roster for DD6 where she plays in the room for 10 - 15 minutes then off to play somewhere else, then she can come back for some more time?

 

My guys are little at the moment, but we're working on a mixture of all of the above, ad making gradual progress.

[....]

Hi, I also have a 9 yro and a 6 yro (and an 8 yro and 4 yro). I write up a syllabus every day (well, most days) and the 8 yro/9 yro can get a lot of schoolwork finished independently. That would give you some time to spend with the 6 yro.

 

Also, next year, the 6 yro (who will be a 7 yro) is probably just going to be mostly combined with the 8 yro.

 

Sheesh! Just writing that out was confusing!! :tongue_smilie:

 

My 6 yro is obsessed with mazes. Could your 6 yro work thru a maze book, Kumon book or a puzzle while you're doing math with the 9 yro?

[Julie in CA]

As you can see from my sig. line, I had a lot of little ones at once. One thing that was apparent to me from the beginning was that I would need the kids to become progressively more independent as time went on. In fact, I like the results that have come from training them from an early age to be self-starters (in a sense), and internally motivated to learn. When people have asked me over the years how I thought I could possibly teach my dc all they'd need to know, right through high school, I've always said that I don't need to teach them everything, I need to give them the tools to learn what they need themselves.

 

I don't mean that your 9yo should be doing all of their stuff on their own, but I do mean that you could consider picking & choosing curriculum that fosters independent learning for some subjects. RightStart is great, but so is Math U See, and for some things, independent work might be just as good as parent-led, kwim? Maybe finding a new balance with those kinds of choices, and keeping the goal of independent thinkers/learners in mind when you do planning...

 

As far as short-term coping strategies, are you taking advantage of the things that *can* be done with both dc together? 6yo & 9yo aren't really so far apart in terms of history & science studies, and family read-alouds, literature/reading discussion, etc.

 

Not sure any of this will help, or be what you're looking for, but thought I'd toss the ideas out there. :001_smile:

 

For the immediate, here's a :grouphug:. Finding your routine isn't always easy, but it is always worth it. ;)

[melissel]

I think part of the problem is DD6's short attention span. She'll only spend 20 minutes or so on something and then start looking around for more parts or something new, or will begin to want my attention or input, or will want her sister to do whatever she's doing with her. She's already been through the maze craze, and we haven't yet found something else. I think if put her in a room with tons of stuff, she could keep herself occupied, but that would mean she'd be in a different part of the house, because if she's in the room with us, her keeping herself occupied is a noisy, chattery, disruptive thing. She's my singer and dancer, while DD9 is my reader and thinker, IYKWIM!

 

As for DD9's work, there really are very few worksheets. Most of it is discussion-based. She doesn't need me to sit there while she does worksheets, I'm sitting with her and teaching her--reading aloud, teaching the lesson, discussing, questioning her for comprehension, etc. There's not much for her to DO independently.

 

I suppose I could save all the worksheets until the end of all the mom-time and send her all off to do them at once. Is that what most people do? I don't know, we just never really seem to have that many worksheets!

[melissel]

See, and for some things, independent work might be just as good as parent-led, kwim? Maybe finding a new balance with those kinds of choices, and keeping the goal of independent thinkers/learners in mind when you do planning...

 

This is a good point, and one I've thought about a lot. I'm not sure how I feel about it at this age. I want to foster independence, and that is ultimately one of my goals, but right now, with this kid, at this age, she learns best through discussion. She always has, and I am that way, so maybe that's why I lean toward it. It's not that she couldn't be independent or that she needs me babysitting her; it's that she processes so well when there's a dialogue happening, and her mind is on fire when that dialogue is happening. I think it would be doing a disservice to her to take that away. Of course, I'm probably doing a disservice to DD6 by shunting her off to the side because of it... I need to think more about that. I may want to spin off a thread, because now you have me thinking about it again!

 

As far as short-term coping strategies, are you taking advantage of the things that *can* be done with both dc together? 6yo & 9yo aren't really so far apart in terms of history & science studies, and family read-alouds, literature/reading discussion, etc.

 

We do do history and science together, but so far that's about it. I don't see DD6 sitting with us for Latin or Dynamic Literacy, though maybe. Definitely not for math or WWE. We actually haven't started this school year yet (we were supposed to start last week, but we're all sick), but this was an ongoing problem all last year, so I was hoping to get some ideas to head it off at the pass. Maybe I'll just start talking to both of them in advance...

[Mommy22alyns]

:bigear:

 

Becca's workload has really increased this year and she still needs a lot of direct supervision. Sylvia is (rightfully) done before Rebecca and is often at a loose end while Becca is still working. Right now I am lucky (eh) to have DH home and teaching Sylvia.

[Julie in CA]

This is a good point, and one I've thought about a lot. I'm not sure how I feel about it at this age. I want to foster independence, and that is ultimately one of my goals, but right now, with this kid, at this age, she learns best through discussion. She always has, and I am that way, so maybe that's why I lean toward it. It's not that she couldn't be independent or that she needs me babysitting her; it's that she processes so well when there's a dialogue happening, and her mind is on fire when that dialogue is happening. I think it would be doing a disservice to her to take that away. Of course, I'm probably doing a disservice to DD6 by shunting her off to the side because of it... I need to think more about that. I may want to spin off a thread, because now you have me thinking about it again!

I'm not disagreeing with you even a tiny bit, but...

I wanted to raise adults who liked to learn, and who knew how to go about it even when there wasn't the dynamic of someone there to actively facilitate. Learning through discussion & dialogue is wonderful, but realistically, it's a good thing, imo, to be an effective learner even when that's not available, because for most of a person's life, that's truly *not* available. So yes, cram in as much of that as you can for *both* of your dc, and I'd venture to say that it might be even more important for your 6 than for your 9, who probably, by virtue of being first-born might already possess a slightly stronger measure of confidence & sense of self to begin with. That one already had 3 years of exclusive parental attention, lol! ;) At the same time, train both of them how to learn even when there's no one there to make it more stimulating & fun, not through drudgery, but through actively giving them the skills for independent study.

 

Have a great year! The sense of excitement (& a tiny bit of trepidation) grows every single year. I'm in my...17th year of homeschooling, with only (Lord willing) 4-5 more to go, and I've almost worked my way out of a job! Onward, to things as yet unexplored...:)

Edited September 21, 2011 by Julie in CA

[Ria]

I think part of the problem is DD6's short attention span. She'll only spend 20 minutes or so on something and then start looking around for more parts or something new, or will begin to want my attention or input, or will want her sister to do whatever she's doing with her.

 

At 9 I'd be insisting on more independent work, and that might include a change in curricula for you. It's not an unreasonable expectation that she sit and work on math for 15 -20 minutes, or spend the same amount of time on a writing assignment.

 

Short attention spans can be expanded. Lots and lots of practice will help. :)

[Momof3littles]

My 2 older kids are 7.5 and 4.5. The 4.5 wants to be included in many things. I have cool things ready for her, but I often don't get around to doing them w/ her because DS1 still needs a lot from me.

 

What I have had some success w/ is including some Montessori type activities for her. I will give her cards with words on them and she spells them out (from Boggle Jr) using alphabet dice or magnetic letters. I cut up posters of things like the life cycle of a frog or butterfly and she puts those together (which takes up a whole minute of her time :lol:). She folds washcloths or napkins for me. I'm working on cutting up more posters to make some "interactive posters" for her (labeling body parts on a big poster of a body, etc.). Singapore Essentials A is too easy for her in many cases, but she can do it fairly independently once I give her the instructions. She participates in FLL1/2 with us, and oddly enough seems to be getting things out of it (days of the week, months of the year, she can give examples of pronouns, etc). She listens to some of our SOTW even though most of it is over her head (she has been known to blurt out a pillar of Islam now and again when I'm asking DS1). eta: she also likes starfall or Shephard , and will sometimes listen to audiobooks (she is not as big of a fan as DS1 was at her age).

Edited September 21, 2011 by Momof3littles

[melissel]

At 9 I'd be insisting on more independent work, and that might include a change in curricula for you. It's not an unreasonable expectation that she sit and work on math for 15 -20 minutes, or spend the same amount of time on a writing assignment.

 

Short attention spans can be expanded. Lots and lots of practice will help. :)

 

DD6 has the short attention span :D DD9 has a good attention span, she just learns more effectively in a more conversational setting. I'll definitely be working with DD6 on attention this year.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Can the younger one safely play outside alone for a while? Obviously I have no idea how your home is set up, but my ds can go to his favorite spots outside and literally spends hours (getting him in to do school work is a big problem!). I can hear part of what he's doing the whole time.

[ChristineW]

I think its reasonable to expect fourth graders to do some work independently and to learn how to transition back into working quickly when interrupted or given a break. Ks need more time from the teacher, especially when that teacher is mom.

 

Your K'er has a pretty full load, and she can't work independently (at least not for long stretches). She's six. Is she getting her work done? Does she have time in the school day set aside that is just hers? My six year old does a better job waiting for my attention if he knows that at 9:00 mom is going to work with him (just him no interruptions)until 9:30. More Starfall is great. We have a Smarty Ants subscription but I've also heard good things about Reading Eggs. Both keep my 4 and 6 year olds out of my hair while I do math with the other one or if I need to take care of the baby.

 

Feel free to take this with a grain of salt. My oldest isn't quite 6, but he has a 4.5 year old sister who also needs her own learning time. It is really, really tough. :grouphug:

 

Christine

[2squared]

My 9yo is in RS D. Her lesson time is 15 min one-on-one with me. Any worksheets are saved for her independent work time. For her independent work, she does copywork, RS worksheets, independent reading, and Evan Moore Daily Paragraph Editing. Every 6 days or so RS D has a review worksheet, so that day's entire lesson is put in the independent work pile. We have a period of time after she's done with her independent work for one-on-one review of her work.

 

I also have her daily work listed in a planner. She loves marking things off.

 

Now, my 9yo also complains about noise while she's working. We have 6 people in house all day, every day. It's never quiet. But, you know what? It's never completey quiet in a public school classroom either. Those classrooms have about 20 other students making some sort of fidgeting noise, and the teacher is probably working with at least one student all the time. I think my dd has to learn to handle some noise while she's working. It is a life skill she will need whether she is studying in college, working for pay, or taking care of children.

 

Also, I include all my dc for history, science, religion, and read alouds. Everyone gets one-on-one time for the 3Rs, but all other subjects are group subjects.

[melissel]

My 9yo is in RS D. Her lesson time is 15 min one-on-one with me. Any worksheets are saved for her independent work time. For her independent work, she does copywork, RS worksheets, independent reading, and Evan Moore Daily Paragraph Editing. Every 6 days or so RS D has a review worksheet, so that day's entire lesson is put in the independent work pile. We have a period of time after she's done with her independent work for one-on-one review of her work.

 

I also have her daily work listed in a planner. She loves marking things off.

 

Now, my 9yo also complains about noise while she's working. We have 6 people in house all day, every day. It's never quiet. But, you know what? It's never completey quiet in a public school classroom either. Those classrooms have about 20 other students making some sort of fidgeting noise, and the teacher is probably working with at least one student all the time. I think my dd has to learn to handle some noise while she's working. It is a life skill she will need whether she is studying in college, working for pay, or taking care of children.

 

Also, I include all my dc for history, science, religion, and read alouds. Everyone gets one-on-one time for the 3Rs, but all other subjects are group subjects.

 

Only have a sec, but how do you get RS D done in 15 minutes a day? Do you do a whole lesson? We did C this past year and each lesson took a minimum of 45 minutes!

[funschooler5]

Wow, your DD6 sounds like my DD6....especially with the humming to herself and loud whispering! I've done the the bath thing, when the older kids need to work on something that requires discussion with me. Otherwise, DD will constantly interrupt with questions and comments. And so far this year, most days I end up doing schoolwork with DD6 after dinner or before bed. I just can't seem to coordinate the older kids' independent work with her homeschooling. Our schedule is really off right now.

 

Sorry, no suggestions, just some commiseration.:tongue_smilie:

[2squared]

Only have a sec, but how do you get RS D done in 15 minutes a day? Do you do a whole lesson? We did C this past year and each lesson took a minimum of 45 minutes!

 

We usually get through a full lesson. I like teaching RS, and dd likes it too. Our lesson time is focused (ala Miss Mason). She does any written work in her independent time, so her total RS time is about 30 min.

 

Last year I scheduled C for 30 min/day, but she did the worksheets with me and I did not worry about finishing a lesson every day. My current 7yo is averaging about 30 min/lesson in C, but he is a math whiz who writes painfully slow.

 

My kids would shut down with more than 30 min of intense math, so a longer lesson would not be productive. As it is, they both want to do math first every day, and they both seem to be solid in what they have learned.