Stayseeliz Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Tomorrow my DD has a vision therapy appointment. She has severe amblyopia and has reading delays, etc etc. I'm waiting to hear from the Lion's Club about funding but they are taking forever. Things are incredibly tight and I will use the credit card for the first time in 3 1/2 years to pay for her session tomorrow. It's so incredibly stressful and depressing. Tell me it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 So how did it go? We can't tell you it's worth it. Only the results can determine that for you. You could have a bum doc or a great doc. Probably it's going to do great things for her. What I would consider though, in your shoes, is stretching those appointments and doing LOTS AND LOTS of homework. This stuff is homework driven, and there's a lot you can do to buy some time and let that funding come in. It was important to get started, but now do what you can on your end to space the appointments. I gained 20 pounds last year from stress, eating, driving. Debt stress is no fun either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 This was just our second appointment to dispense the home program we're going to be doing. We were able to pay for the evaluation and her bifocals etc with cash but we were due to get the home program in our hands today and I wanted to at least be able to start with that. We won't have to go back for 6 weeks. I just wish some funding help would come through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Good luck! I really wish this therapy were more accessible to everyone who needs it. I do believe it is probably worth it. I hope you see fantastic results! I was just talking to my friend earlier today about my daughter's before/after. She was below the 1st percentile in some areas before VT (which was done last fall/winter). Now she is holding her own quite nicely in most areas. To me that is priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 This is interesting because I came here tonight to post just the same thing. My daughter's first therapy appt. was moved back to next week, On Tuesday. And I am paying with our Care Credit card too and stressing about the money. My husband freaked out when he realized that it is essentially going to be $135. per session! Financially this is going to be difficult so I am hoping that its worth it too! My daughter's LiPs reading therapist and speech therapist both were concerned about it and said that they didn't recommend the visual therapy as they found that the evidence did not support it so its tough being the lone ranger in charging forward with this and hoping and praying that this will help my daughter. I think its great that you are able to have the home therapy program. ours is a visit every week plus homework everyday. I will pray that this will help both of our kiddos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 What a tough situation! I was wondering if there is a Delta Gamma sorority/alumnae group in your area? They sometimes fund free vision therapy too. It would be worth at least googling it. Type in "Delta Gamma Vision Therapy (your city)" and see what pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 This is interesting because I came here tonight to post just the same thing. My daughter's first therapy appt. was moved back to next week, On Tuesday. And I am paying with our Care Credit card too and stressing about the money. My husband freaked out when he realized that it is essentially going to be $135. per session! Financially this is going to be difficult so I am hoping that its worth it too! My daughter's LiPs reading therapist and speech therapist both were concerned about it and said that they didn't recommend the visual therapy as they found that the evidence did not support it so its tough being the lone ranger in charging forward with this and hoping and praying that this will help my daughter. I think its great that you are able to have the home therapy program. ours is a visit every week plus homework everyday. I will pray that this will help both of our kiddos! So is your $135 a week for an hour or a half hour? That's pretty close to what we paid for an hour once a week, so it's right in line. Are your SLP and reading specialistic concerned about VT *in general* or VT *with that specific doctor*? No one can guarantee a particular doctor is good, and we've heard just enough stories here on the boards to know there are all kinds (good, dishonest, in-between). But IF your dc actually has the vision issues VT is good for and IF the VT person is worth their salt, you can get ASTOUNDING changes. So for them to say there's "no evidence" to support it is just preposterous. But if they're saying they've heard bad stories about your particular doc, well sure that's different. My dd got HUGE changes with VT. She used to constantly bump into things, couldn't catch a ball, had terrible writing despite my efforts and couldn't close letters, etc. no matter how she tried, had headaches with reading and shied away from small print, on and on. Now she can catch balls, is bruise-free, has legible hand-writing, can MAKE the things she's trying to make with her pen, is headache-free, reads small print that I can't read. It just goes on and on. She had legitimate issues with convergence, tracking, focusing, etc. and the VT made huge changes. She also grew up about 10 years with it. See when these kids are having these problems, they start doing masking behaviors (acting silly or worse) to cover over how badly it makes them feel. So literally in a few months we saw all those behaviors drop and she just BLOSSOMED. So if you need permission to ignore the out-of-specialty opinions of your speech therapist and reading therapist, go right ahead. VT, with a good doc and therapist and with a child who needs it, can make ASTOUNDING changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for that. Yes, its about $135 per each session.. which is an hour session once per week. Its twice as much as her reading therapy. Its a lot of money for something that I keep hearing about SOME people having good results and some people it was ok for but wasn't super helpful. I'm so glad it helped your daughter! The speech and reading therapist both said that VT in general does not have the evidence to support it. They want my daughter to do Fast Forward instead and I have read the studies/evidence on that too. There is a grant that will pay for that for us and its much less expensive and we can do it at home too! Its not the same thing as VT but they use it for kids with autism all the time, which my daughter has. If only money were not an issue...I would do anything, anything... and I am. We are going broke right now with all these therapies. If it helps my daughter, it will be worth it in the end. But for right now its tough going. Thank you though. I can't not try it at least because if it could help her and I don't try it, I'll never forgive myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for that. Yes, its about $135 per each session.. which is an hour session once per week. Its twice as much as her reading therapy. Its a lot of money for something that I keep hearing about SOME people having good results and some people it was ok for but wasn't super helpful. I'm so glad it helped your daughter! The speech and reading therapist both said that VT in general does not have the evidence to support it. They want my daughter to do Fast Forward instead and I have read the studies/evidence on that too. There is a grant that will pay for that for us and its much less expensive and we can do it at home too! Its not the same thing as VT but they use it for kids with autism all the time, which my daughter has. If only money were not an issue...I would do anything, anything... and I am. We are going broke right now with all these therapies. If it helps my daughter, it will be worth it in the end. But for right now its tough going. Thank you though. I can't not try it at least because if it could help her and I don't try it, I'll never forgive myself. It is hard to know the right thing to do sometimes. Have you looked on covd.org to find all the vision therapists in your area? Also google vision therapy (your area)? I literally called every place in a 2 hours radius and finally found this one. They are much cheaper. I'd love to be able to do the two sessions a week, etc but we just do NOT have the money so a home program works for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) The speech and reading therapist both said that VT in general does not have the evidence to support it. They want my daughter to do Fast Forward instead and I have read the studies/evidence on that too. There is a grant that will pay for that for us and its much less expensive and we can do it at home too! Its not the same thing as VT but they use it for kids with autism all the time, which my daughter has. Aren't FF and VT for different things??? From what I'm reading, FF is for APD. VT is for the eyes. They're not at all the same. Sounds like your therapists are making blanket statements about reading without digging to what the actual CAUSES are in order to sort out the specific solutions. Just because both therapies can affect reading doesn't mean they're interchangeable or fixing the same things. Edited September 19, 2011 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 My dd got HUGE changes with VT. She used to constantly bump into things, couldn't catch a ball, had terrible writing despite my efforts and couldn't close letters, etc. no matter how she tried, had headaches with reading and shied away from small print, on and on. Now she can catch balls, is bruise-free, has legible hand-writing, can MAKE the things she's trying to make with her pen, is headache-free, reads small print that I can't read. It just goes on and on. She had legitimate issues with convergence, tracking, focusing, etc. and the VT made huge changes. She also grew up about 10 years with it. See when these kids are having these problems, they start doing masking behaviors (acting silly or worse) to cover over how badly it makes them feel. So literally in a few months we saw all those behaviors drop and she just BLOSSOMED. So if you need permission to ignore the out-of-specialty opinions of your speech therapist and reading therapist, go right ahead. VT, with a good doc and therapist and with a child who needs it, can make ASTOUNDING changes. :iagree::iagree::iagree: I would add more but we actually have to go to VT right now! Dd's Medicaid ends on Sept 31 so we are going 3x/week until then to get as much in as possible before we have to stop! I assume we will get a lot of extra homework for the next month to also help (VT was scheduled through Oct previously). We have a mini-eval today so I should find out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 WORTH IT!! PRICELESS!! :grouphug: Hard to use that credit card, I know, but you're making an investment in the future of your child. Did I say it's worth it? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Oh wow! Praise God! I took someone's advice to call all the docs on the COVD website in our area and I did. I just started calling each office and asking if they do VT and how much they charge. So I found an office I hadn't seen on that site before that is closer to us and right across the street from my daughter's LiPs reading therapist/speech therapy office! They are much closer than the VT office that we are planning to go to tomorrow. Anyways, they take all major medical insurances and they take mine and said that they have never had trouble getting it covered by my insurance carrier! YEAH! They also take Care Credit so whatever my ins. does not cover I can use with my credit card. Which means I may have credit left over on it to use for dental appointments too! Whoo hoo! They charge $115/per session and when I asked how many sessions, they said it depends on my daughter and how well she responds to the therapy and she'll be evaluated after the first 16 sessions to see how she is doing. There was no set amount of sessions she could tell me yet. I made an appt for this week to visit with them. My daughter may not need to retest but only a few things and I'll bring the other VT report with me with her diagnoses and results. I am so excited! This doctor has extensive training working with kids with Autism and their VT sessions are twice per week, 40 min. each. I can easily schedule them to be on the two days that my daughter attends her LiPs therapy and make one trip for two appts. It'll be two long days, but it will be worth it!! Wow. I am feeling so much better about this! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 That's wonderful Steph!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 That's wonderful Steph!!! :iagree::iagree: Yay!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 quick question for everyone... Is two visits per WEEK realistic for VT? They do 40 min. sessions at those two visits... the visits are usually a few days apart from eachother... like Mon/Wed or Wed/Fri, etc. When I asked them about homework and doing things at home they said some people have homework but everything is mostly done in office. ? Does that sound right??? also, when I mentioned to the receptionist that the VT office was down the street from the place where my daughter gets her LiPs reading help... the receptionist said... "you're not planning to continue there are you?" I told her I was and she said that we should quit immediately and that the doctor will explain why at our first visit but she wouldn't tell me why on the phone. I thought that was kind of weird. Any thoughts? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 quick question for everyone... Is two visits per WEEK realistic for VT? They do 40 min. sessions at those two visits... the visits are usually a few days apart from eachother... like Mon/Wed or Wed/Fri, etc. When I asked them about homework and doing things at home they said some people have homework but everything is mostly done in office. ? Does that sound right??? also, when I mentioned to the receptionist that the VT office was down the street from the place where my daughter gets her LiPs reading help... the receptionist said... "you're not planning to continue there are you?" I told her I was and she said that we should quit immediately and that the doctor will explain why at our first visit but she wouldn't tell me why on the phone. I thought that was kind of weird. Any thoughts? Thanks! We went 2x/week (now 3x/week) but we had homework to do every day that we did not have VT, and they kick people out who are not willing to do the homework, as it's a waste of everyone's time & money if you aren't willing to do the homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 quick question for everyone... Is two visits per WEEK realistic for VT? They do 40 min. sessions at those two visits... the visits are usually a few days apart from eachother... like Mon/Wed or Wed/Fri, etc. When I asked them about homework and doing things at home they said some people have homework but everything is mostly done in office. ? Does that sound right??? also, when I mentioned to the receptionist that the VT office was down the street from the place where my daughter gets her LiPs reading help... the receptionist said... "you're not planning to continue there are you?" I told her I was and she said that we should quit immediately and that the doctor will explain why at our first visit but she wouldn't tell me why on the phone. I thought that was kind of weird. Any thoughts? Thanks! Hm, I'd hear them out, but I wouldn't cancel anything until I had a chance to hear both sides and give it some private thought. I do think it's odd that they said that over the phone. There is a rivalry of sorts between VT folks and other folks who use other methods to address the same problem(s). I got some strange feedback from my daughter's opthalmologist when they heard I was going to have her tested at for vision therapy. But I was already disappointed in them for not bothering to tell me about the convergence issue they had noticed a year earlier. Imagine if I could have started addressing the problem a year sooner! When it came to VT, they could not even discuss the matter in a sane manner. So that was the last those doctors heard from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 quick question for everyone... Is two visits per WEEK realistic for VT? They do 40 min. sessions at those two visits... the visits are usually a few days apart from eachother... like Mon/Wed or Wed/Fri, etc. When I asked them about homework and doing things at home they said some people have homework but everything is mostly done in office. ? Does that sound right??? also, when I mentioned to the receptionist that the VT office was down the street from the place where my daughter gets her LiPs reading help... the receptionist said... "you're not planning to continue there are you?" I told her I was and she said that we should quit immediately and that the doctor will explain why at our first visit but she wouldn't tell me why on the phone. I thought that was kind of weird. Any thoughts? Thanks! What receptionist? I wasn't clear from your post. If the reading tutor's receptionist was giving you bad feedback about your VT place, I would ABSOLUTELY listen to that. And I would be concerned about what you're saying with no homework. That doesn't fit our experience at all. We had a COVD-certified therapist in a large VT practice, and we had quite a bit of homework on top of twice weekly sessions. To me that would be fishy not to have homework. Either they aren't working the dc enough or they just want to make you pay them to do things you could do perfectly well at home. Or they aren't organized enough to make homework happen. No matter what, I sure wouldn't walk into that one unless you've had a lot of good feedback from someone about them. I agree there can be rivalry between VT places. But if it's another therapy place giving you hints about negative experiences with your VT place, I'd pay attention. VT is WAY too much money to screw around and not get the results. Do you have more options of other VT places? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Ok, I see there was some chatter while I was gone and some confusion with my poorly worded post. Sorry about that everyone. The receptionist I spoke to at the new VT office had some misinformation and misunderstood me. She thought my daughter was already receiving VT from another place and said that I should not receive VT from two different therapists. She was also mistaken about the homework. So my daughter had her appt. yesterday with the Optometrist and VT that takes my insurance. This office was much more accommodating for children as opposed to the other office. I noticed that right away. Much more friendly. Not a huge deal, but I notice little things like that. So the optometrist was very thorough. He did not repeat some of the tests my daughter has already had done but he did a few others and explained to me everything he was doing. He found her prescription for her glasses was off and did not agree that her astigmatism was nearly as bad as her prescription was written for. He did find a few other things as well. He agreed with the previous VT exam that she has Ocular Pursuit Disorder but did not agree with the Saccades being a problem. Before he examined her, he had her do some kind of test and I forget what it was called... some kind of graph. But they put these weird goggles, glasses on her face and have her read and the machine tracks the movements of her eyes as she is reading. It can tell whether she is skipping words, re-reading words, etc. And then they test her comprehension. At first they tested her at the 2nd grade reading level because I told them she was doing 2nd grade work {age wise she should be in 3rd grade}. She did not have any problems with the 2nd grade reading level and her tracking was perfect! Then when I told them she should be in 3rd grade, they repeated the test at the 3rd grade level, she tested fine again and read at a 4.4 grade reading level! I seriously did not believe it as I know she is great at guessing words. So, I took the reading card and had her read a few of the words aloud to me from the card. She knew most of the words except for a few and her comprehension was good on the test. However, the optometrist did find that she has poor visual perception and convergence insufficiency and accommodative insufficiency. He said it is pretty obvious and he is surprised that the other optometrist did not pick that up on testing. He said that she has trouble seeing things up close, like words, and they are often blurry and she can sometimes see double. He asked her about her words when she sees them and she says that they are blurry sometimes. She's told me that before but I assumed with her glasses that would be fixed. It's not. He gave her a new prescription for glasses that are similar to bifocals... called them all focals or something... to help her see better up close until they are able to help correct that as her eyes are not able to focus well. He recommended vision therapy for 8 weeks and then re-test her again to see if she is making progress and to determine if she would need more therapy or not. I met the VT and she was great. I liked her more than the other VT. She did not give me a sales pitch at all. She was younger and my daughter loved her. She was very down to earth and related better to her than the other VT. She played some games with my daughter to show her what VT would be like and my daughter was super excited to come back. They do VT 2x per week for 40 min. sessions along with 15-20 min. of homework per day at home during the week. She said success varies but you don't know the full extent of the benefit if you do not do exercises at home with her. She also said that they do see some kids who don't benefit from VT and then other kids that just make huge progress. That's why the doctor has her evaluated every 8 weeks. Their therapy sessions cost about $20. less than the other office AND they take our insurance. Hopefully most of it will be covered by insurance! I left there feeling much better and so glad I checked them out. I admit that I am confused about the testing on the graph for my daughter's reading level. Am I underestimating her? Is that graph accurate? I don't know. Anyone have any thoughts about this? Thanks if you got through my whole post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Steph I'm so happy for you!! Your gut is right that it's important for the VT place to be happy and help the kids enjoy it. When you are happy, your brain makes hormones (endorphins, etc.) that actually help make the neural connections. VT is about rewiring the brain and making new connections, so this is very important! So yes, they need to have a good time. Your eval and the whole set-up sounds very good. Now on the visagraph, look at your results carefully. They were looking at tracking, and that grade level they threw at you was for eye efficiency. I think (and this is just my memory) when my dd had that done at the end of 5th grade she had the eye efficiency of an 11th grader. She actually had tracking problems show up on top of that. So I wouldn't consider that the same as a *reading* level the way you're thinking of it. I don't think it's an assessment of her vocabulary, reading comprehension, etc. they way a WJIII or other standardized test would check. (That's sort of obvious when you think about it, given that they're looking at one small sample.) It's about the eye movements typical to that age/reading level. Just listening to what you're saying, I would ponder whether she's dyslexic (on top of needing the VT). Did he ask you what you're using for reading? Are you doing something in the OG family? SWR, AAS, PR, WRTR, Barton, Wilson. Any of those. What I found with my dd is that it was like all the phonics work we had done before didn't quite sink in because of the visual processing problems. After a couple months of VT, she suddenly started trying, spontaneously, to sound out words, and she would ask about letter sounds, etc. So what you might do is do the 8 weeks of VT, then go back and RE-DO your phonics. We also ended up redoing basic math. I'm not saying she didn't know it. She has always tested WELL. It was like something had finally clicked and she needed to see that material again to let it reprocess in her brain using all those new pathways. So that's what I would do. AAS is fun but inefficient for an older dc. What age is she? Oh, you said 3rd grade. That's right on the line. You could either use AAS straight or just get the manipulatives and use them with SWR. What you might even do is just fly through the first level or two of AAS with her (all this is AFTER you do the 8 weeks of VT), then switch over to SWR or WRTR. At that point you'd get how they apply and find it easy to carry over. My dd greatly enjoyed the AAS manipulatives. (We did AAS after VT for that refresher.) That's great that she didn't have issues with tracking! One less problem, whew! The other things he's describing really do respond that quickly to therapy. You're going to be amazed! :) BTW, I could have that term wrong. I'm not known for getting my terms right. Ask them for the specific term. I just remember being pretty wowed by the number I got too. Actually, my dd's reading comprehension on a standardized test with no ceiling is much higher. Edited September 22, 2011 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Thanks Elizabeth for the reply I appreciate it! I totally admit after the testing I went home thinking... whoa, wait a minute... maybe she isn't dyslexic?! Maybe she just CAN'T SEE!!! I am crying just thinking about that. All this time and she just can't see right. Ugh. My poor daughter. How horrible that must have been for her. Huge implications honestly. The previous VT who tested my daughter had her do some copying exercises. She had to look at a letter and find its match in a row of other letters {similar to ETC workbooks which she has done before} and she did not miss one letter. She got them all correct and that VT said she did not believe that my daughter was dyslexic because if she was, she would not have been able to choose the correct letter. I wasn't so sure then but now I am wondering if she may be right? The optometrist yesterday asked my daughter if she sees her numbers and letters backwards and she said no. {yet she still writes her numbers backwards often and reverses them. She writes her letters much better and we use Primary Arts of Language Writing for that and she writes on a whiteboard with colorful markers as opposed to paper.} He then asked her if sometimes letters or numbers are blurry and she said, "oh yes". Hmmm The only reading program we have been using for the past two months has been the LiPs program with her reading therapist and now she has started with Seeing Stars with her reading therapist and I have seen progress, slow going though. At home she reads for 15 minutes with me using some readers that her reading therapist sends home with us that go along with what she is learning there. I also have her read a page a day out of Dianne Craft's Right Brain Phonics book. That's all she can handle. What I haven't seen is that love of reading... asking about letter sounds, wanting to read on her own, etc. She seems uninterested still and can only read for a few minutes before she is very tired. She gets very fidgety and has trouble focusing in her reading sessions with her therapist after the first twenty minutes or so. She will color and draw for hours though. What if all this time I thought she was dyslexic {and she has been dx'd as such} and she just has vision problems?!! Wow. All the money I have spent... all the poor testing she has been through. The ADHD inattentive dx is most likely in relation to her vision problems since she never had those symptoms until she tried to learn how to read. The optometrist agreed with me on that and said that could be a definite possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Steph, VT is *so* much work, I would consider pausing that reading therapy while you're doing the VT. It would be one thing if it were at home and broken into little increments of say 10 minutes. But given her young age, her current frustration and inattention, and how QUICKLY the VT doc thinks this will reverse (which honestly is realistic!), I would pause the therapy. And I would resume when you start seeing spontaneous signs from her that her vision is now at a place where she wants to read and comfortably CAN. Kids are so naturally driven to develop, they'll usually tell us when we're ready. I would have concerns btw, if the reading tutor was willing to plow through and *didn't* recognize the signs of the vision problems. Did she refer you for the eye eval? If she didn't, then I'd do some double thinking there. Don't solve the problem you don't have. She could be solving something that isn't even the right problem. BTW, I felt like my dd had surges for about 6 months after VT, where she just kept taking leaps. And we're not talking small stuff but LEAPS. So I wouldn't be afraid to let the VT work, do the homework (it's going to keep her busy and may possibly wear her out!), do puzzles, do fun stuff, and just let this come together. After they work on the focusing, convergence, etc., they then need to check her visual processing. They may hit that in the 8 weeks or they may not. There are a lot of visual things my dd wouldn't do before (puzzles! etc. etc.) that we started doing when she got into that 2nd stage. The other thing you could do with that reading tutor is cut down the sessions and de-emphasize the visual part. There's an awful lot they could do right now that would use auditory and manipulatives (flashcards, etc.) and totally skirt the issue of *reading*. Why kill her joy in it now when she's actually going to have the physical ability to do it happily in a few months? I'd make the tone happy now, even if it means cutting stuff or changing to a light dose that you do at home, so she'll be happy to go back to it later. It's all going to come together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Actually the reading therapist and the speech therapist that runs the office both said that vision therapy was hoakie when I asked them about it and they didn't recommend it because the research/evidence does not support it. She is the one that recommended Fast Forward and said that Leah's vision issues should be handled by a pediatric ophthalmologist. She said vision therapy sounded like snake oil to her. If we drop the reading therapy while VT, i don't know if we'll be able to just pick up where we were at and with the same person which would stink because my daughter is doing really well with her. There is no benefit to doing it at the same time? The VT is across the street from her reading therapist so I was planning to do one appt. right after the other 2x a week. With the reading therapy currently, she is using flashcards and doing auditory things. Not much visual stuff. Trying to learn how to "see" a word in her mind, writing it in the air, removing letters in the air and replacing them with other letters, saying them outloud, repeating the word back orally, etc. She has progressed from CVC words to long vowel sounds now. My daughter is the same. She doesn't do puzzles either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 I was really undecided when I started looking into vision therapy and realized there is a HUGE difference between VT's, offices, etc. One guy was outrageous and almost seemed like a used car salesman. Very strange. I did talk to one pediatric opthalmalogist (sp) and without ever seeing my DD said her school issues and vision therapy was a hoax. I went to pick up my younger DD's glasses from our optometrist and he encouraged me to try vision therapy at least for awhile. We found the place we are going to that charges much less than other places and really seems to want to help-not just make money. Since we started in July her vision has gone from 20/50 corrected to 20/40 corrected and I'm just starting to see improvement in her reading. VT is EXHAUSTING. Soooooo exhausting. I'm seriously thinking about doing it right before our quiet time because it's so exhausting that both of us need a break after we're done. But I have high hopes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Does vision therapy ever take away the need for glasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Actually the reading therapist and the speech therapist that runs the office both said that vision therapy was hoakie when I asked them about it and they didn't recommend it because the research/evidence does not support it. She is the one that recommended Fast Forward and said that Leah's vision issues should be handled by a pediatric ophthalmologist. She said vision therapy sounded like snake oil to her. If we drop the reading therapy while VT, i don't know if we'll be able to just pick up where we were at and with the same person which would stink because my daughter is doing really well with her. There is no benefit to doing it at the same time? The VT is across the street from her reading therapist so I was planning to do one appt. right after the other 2x a week. With the reading therapy currently, she is using flashcards and doing auditory things. Not much visual stuff. Trying to learn how to "see" a word in her mind, writing it in the air, removing letters in the air and replacing them with other letters, saying them outloud, repeating the word back orally, etc. She has progressed from CVC words to long vowel sounds now. My daughter is the same. She doesn't do puzzles either. Steph, would you be able to *pause* the reading therapist a couple weeks? Just tell her you had some other medical appointments come up that are sucking your money (or whatever is truthful and polite) and that you need to pause a couple weeks. Not really burning bridges, just pausing. I mean I can't fathom she'd drop you if you went on vacation for a week, so she shouldn't drop you for pausing a couple weeks either. Now as far as doing the appointments both in the same day, I don't think that will work well. At least *we* couldn't have done it. VT utterly wiped my dd out. So at the very least I would encourage you to *pause* the reading therapy, start the VT, see how it makes your dd feel and how she handles it, then decide. I'm just saying *we* couldn't have done them back to back. If this reading therapist is doing LiPs or something, can't you get it and do it yourself? I'm just disturbed that she's trying to get your child to visualize when it's specifically her visual processing that isn't working. No wonder she's hitting walls. First you fix the eyes, THEN you go back and build on that foundation. The foundation is actually getting the information in correctly (converged images that focus properly, etc. etc.). Once you have that, THEN you go back and work on visualization, visual memory, etc. She was putting the cart before the horse. No one person knows everything, so you don't have to hold that against her. But for her to act like she's the only therapist for miles and miles who can do LiPs or that you can't do it yourself (or that she'll even still need it after VT) is really disingenuine. Don't let them intimidate you. I don't know if you feel that way, so I'm just saying it. But the main thing is to start the VT and see how your dd feels with it. She might not be able to do those appointments back to back like that. After a VT session, my dd was so wiped out she would literally fall asleep. And to do the reading therapy before, well that would have left her less energy to put into the VT. You're paying way too much for VT not to go into it fresh. The BEST thing you can do before VT is OT actually. Or go to the playground and get lots of vestibular input on the swings and other equipment. That neurological stimulation puts them in a good position for the VT later. Mercy, was that a downer? I know it all sounds so convenient. I'm just telling you how it was for us. Maybe someone else had a totally different experience. If you *pause* the reading therapy for a session or two, you'll be able to find out for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Thanks, Elizabeth, that makes sense! I do feel a little intimidated there at times. The therapist is great, don't get me wrong. She gets my daughter doing things that I can't get her to do! But with a lot of effort and coaxing. I asked her about getting the program at home and doing as much as I can at home and inquired about where she purchases some of her materials and she has been great about sending whatever i want home with me to use with her. So she is a great resource in that regard and she'll give me anything I want to work with her at home between visits. However, I admit I feel like I wouldn't have as much success at home with her as she does. When I told the reading therapist that the VT had said that my daughter may not even have dyslexia the therapist totally disagreed with that and said, "Oh no, she clearly is dyslexic. That's obvious." I get the feeling that she thinks its hogwash. Which is fine. I don't need her permission to do the VT. I'll do whatever I feel is best for my daughter no matter what. But, she definitely has the attitude that only a professional can teach a child like mine how to read and I certainly can't do it. I am willing to bet that attitude is not uncommon however. I am going to give this some thought about just doing the VT and taking a break on the reading for awhile. Our first VT appt. is this coming Monday. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Can you call off the reading therapy on the first day of VT, to help you decide what to do next with the reading therapy? Maybe if you decide to keep doing both, you could do them on different days or schedule an hour break between them. I used to take my kid to the McD's play place after vision therapy. And then it was bedtime. (We used to go one evening per week, after a long day of "school.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I just skimmed, you might want to hold off on the glasses. We did, and they wouldn't work after the 8 weeks of VT we have done. A lot changes with VT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 The need for glasses will depend on many things such as the strength of the prescription and the disparity between the eyes. My oldest will always need a lens in her right eye since she is a +7 in one eye. She's not even at a 20/20 corrected vision in her bad eye. I have hopes that glasses and patching will help get my almost 4yo out of glasses. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Really hold off on the glasses? Do I just take them away from her and have her not wear them? She has had glasses for the past two years now and the Developmental Optometrist {at the office where we will get her VT} just prescribed her with something similar to a bifocal {called an "all" focal or something} instead that will be ready in about a week for her to switch to. I had her vision tested because of her difficulty with reading about two years ago and it was then that she got glasses and her reading improved slightly. Then it got worse. and here we are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Steph, how about if you talk wtih the VT doc honestly about what will happen with her need for glasses in 8 weeks after VT... I think what Susan is saying is that if you pay $300+ for glasses and only use them 8 weeks, that's pretty rich. But some kids are still going to need glasses after the VT. And some places will update that scrip within a certain period (x#months), because they know kids grow and change. So you just need to have an honest conversation about your kid and her situation and how that might pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Ok that makes more sense. I will talk to the doc on Monday when we get there for VT. I did spend about $300 for glasses and now I'm freaking out! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Yup, I know the stress. But you have a good doc, sounds like. Rest in that and just go through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hopefully they will work with you! We chose to buy glasses at Walmart since DD's vision is likely to change during VT. She was given bifocals and the set we bought in July cost about $115. She is already growing out of them though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I know! I bought dd's glasses through our optometrist and then totally kicked myself when I realized how much less expensive (and still attractive and fashionable) Walmart would have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I should have gotten them at Walmart. I didn't realize that she would need yet another prescription after VT. Drat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Well don't sweat it just yet. Some places have growth policies and will change the scrip. It really might not be so bad as you fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 thanks guys!! You have helped me quite a lot and I appreciate it. I will not stress about it until I talk to the doctor on Monday! Thank you and I'll let you know how her first VT appt. goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Well don't sweat it just yet. Some places have growth policies and will change the scrip. It really might not be so bad as you fear. My VT optometrist also scared me about the glasses (which I'd just bought for $350), but in the end he did not change the prescription. That was a relief, but in the future, I'm only going to the VT dude for eye exams, at least until it appears we have no more learning issues. And I probably will go for much cheaper glasses, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 I think when I started researching VT someone here warned me not to go for the expensive glasses since her script might change. Glad I listened! She did grow out of her first pair within 6 months of purchasing them last year too so I'm always hesitant to buy expensive glasses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcolemanfamily Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 We'll just have to see what happens. I will talk with the optometrist about getting the next scrip free if we have to re-do it before a year's time. That's way too much $$ to shell out a couple times a year. With the warranty on them and the transitions it came out to over $400 for us. Eek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 What if all this time I thought she was dyslexic {and she has been dx'd as such} and she just has vision problems?!! Wow. All the money I have spent... all the poor testing she has been through. First of all, don't be hard on yourself. :grouphug: It's so easy for us to say, "If only I had known..." or, "If only I had done this..." You did the best you could with the infomation you had. You are continuing down a hard road, doing all you can to help your daughter. Power to the persevering mama! The ADHD inattentive dx is most likely in relation to her vision problems since she never had those symptoms until she tried to learn how to read. The optometrist agreed with me on that and said that could be a definite possibility.My son had typical ADHD behavior going into VT. One of his visual problems was inability to focus. After VT - after his eyes and brain had been trained to focus, team, track, etc - so much of his ADHD-like behavior disappeared. His eyes' inability to focus had kept him unfocused in every aspect of life. I think you'll see happy changes as a result of VT. :) Does vision therapy ever take away the need for glasses?It really depends on the eye issue(s). VT does nothing for myopia or presbyopia (near-sightedness/far-sightedness) - it's not for "vision" issues. So if a person has visual processing problems AND is myopic, he will still be myopic after VT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does vision therapy ever take away the need for glasses? My son was in VT for 18 months. He went thru 3 scripts during VT. After VT he has had one Rx and that is only for near tasks. If his eyes stay where they are, he may outgrow the need for glasses entirely. But that is my son. Other families have entirely different experiences. Thanks, Elizabeth, that makes sense! I do feel a little intimidated there at times. The therapist is great, don't get me wrong. She gets my daughter doing things that I can't get her to do! But with a lot of effort and coaxing. I asked her about getting the program at home and doing as much as I can at home and inquired about where she purchases some of her materials and she has been great about sending whatever i want home with me to use with her. So she is a great resource in that regard and she'll give me anything I want to work with her at home between visits. However, I admit I feel like I wouldn't have as much success at home with her as she does. When I told the reading therapist that the VT had said that my daughter may not even have dyslexia the therapist totally disagreed with that and said, "Oh no, she clearly is dyslexic. That's obvious." Right after we began VT, we hired a reading tutor trained in the Scottish Rite Dyslexia Program. She was more tactful but also felt strongly that ds's reading problems were dyslexia and vision wasn't an issue. At the same time, our VT kept saying that her screening methods were saying ds was not dyslexic. I just ignored both and plowed forward. After ds began making huge strides in VT and that resulted in huge strides in reading tutoring, the tutor came to me one day and said that I was right - his reading issue was caused by vision. Later after VT we were told by another professional that he was not dyslexic and just had a generic reading dysability. However, because he is still wired differently, I don't believe that he would have ever learned to read using traditional methods I get the feeling that she thinks its hogwash. Which is fine. I don't need her permission to do the VT. I'll do whatever I feel is best for my daughter no matter what. But, she definitely has the attitude that only a professional can teach a child like mine how to read and I certainly can't do it. I am willing to bet that attitude is not uncommon however. I am going to give this some thought about just doing the VT and taking a break on the reading for awhile. Our first VT appt. is this coming Monday. :001_smile: VT for my son was exhausting in the beginning. Retraining the brain and his eyes to work together was more difficult than I expected. After a couple of months he stopped being so tired. He also began seeing consistently enough that he was learning faster (his issues meant that before VT he rarely saw the same thing the same way twice). He wasn't connecting phonetic sounds to letters because he wasn't consistently able to see them correctly. From our experience, I agree with stopping reading for a short time and then going back to it. It may be a bad decision, or it maybe that you get a better tutor next time - one that is more supportive even if they don't necessarily agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyX8 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 What a tough situation! I was wondering if there is a Delta Gamma sorority/alumnae group in your area? They sometimes fund free vision therapy too. It would be worth at least googling it. Type in "Delta Gamma Vision Therapy (your city)" and see what pops up. Very old thread but HOLY COW!! That was my fraternity and now I need vision therapy for my son. Time to do some research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Very old thread but HOLY COW!! That was my fraternity and now I need vision therapy for my son. Time to do some research. Well how about that for a coincidence! Maybe it will open up some doors for you! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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