Issue with my oldest- advice needed

[creekmom]

Every year I try to "kick it up a notch" with my expectations/work load for each kid. The problem is with my oldest. He has no one to compare his work load to except his younger siblings. Every year, he thinks I'm asking way too much of him. I believe I'm just about on target when it comes to what should be required of a 7th grader. How do I get him to see this????

 

I'm also having a hard time getting the "quality" I want from his work. Yesterday, he made a C on his science assessment. This did not even phase him. Why should it? There is no shame/embarrassment associated with grades when you hs. I'm thinking this is a real disadvantage to hsing. He's not around other 7th graders who have to do the same amount of work he does. There's no prestige associated with earning good grades.

 

I've considered sending him to middle school just so he could get an idea of what's expected of a 7th grader. I don't want to "threaten" this, bc someday I might really send him to ps, and I don't want him to see it as a punishment. Do any of you have this problem with your oldest?

[regentrude]

I have a 12 year old son. What kind of workload are you expecting of your 7th grader?

For us, it helps compare to his sister, and her workload is based on what she needs to accomplish for high school credits. So, in 9th she had to work for 5 hours in the core subjects- so I expect my 7th grader to do 4 1/2. That makes sense to him.

Maybe it would help if you can come up with an expectation for a 9th grader and calculate backwards to show him why he needs to work as much as you ask him and how that plans out for the future?

[luvnlattes]

Does he have any friends in the neighborhood that are close to his age? There are times when I remind my kids that C or T can't even come out to "play" (or whatever you call it when 7th & 8th grade kids hang out together) when they get home because they still have homework after spending a full day at school. This helps put it in perspective somewhat.

 

As for quality that's a little tougher imo. I've been talking to my 12yo about neatness with his work. I was listening to SWB's science lecture and she says to expect neat/legible work. If not, take the work from the child and require him to do it over. Earlier this week I explained my expectations to my 12yo and that if he doesn't follow through and turns in sloppy work I will toss it and he will have to do it over. His eyes got a little bigger so I know he took me seriously.

 

To relate this to the science you could require him to go back, find the correct information himself, and then update his answers. This would be in addition to all the other assignments he has for the day, not in place of any. If you want, give him a heads up and tell him that from here forward that will be how you're going to handle this. If he has to do this a few times it may be enough of an incentive to care about the quality of his work.

[8filltheheart]

Does he have any idea what he wants to pursue in the future? Perhaps some career investigation, salary, cost of living, degree requirements, scholarship vs. full cost tuition, etc. would form some basis for a conversation.

 

FWIW, we ran into a lot of problems w/our oldest, but not until 11th and 12th grades. All of his friends were other homeschoolers and they were not taking appropriate college prep loads. He used to be furious w/me and tell me that I didn't know what I was talking about in expecting so much from him. But, it was non-negotiable and he ended up grounded more times than I care to remember.

 

However, now as an adult, he fully recognizes that we as older individuals do have a perspective that younger people don't have. ;) He has thanked us for being firm and providing the education that he needed to succeed. As he sees the rest of his friends far from functioning on fully independent adult levels while he has a career, a wife, and a baby, we both know that butting heads, while painful at the time, was worth it in the long run.

 

I will say that none of my other kids have ever questioned workload/assignments the way he did. They know where his friends are compared to him.

[Momto3indians]

When I saw a 'gap' in their learning, I asked around for private tutors. I tell you it so helped as they got older. We even joined some co'ops into those years for that 'accountability factor' to kick in..and boy did it kick in!!

 

They wanted to work hard but 'mom' telling them was just not enough and THAT is okay in my book. They're just growing up and going thru that natural process of separating from us wholly one day.

[elegantlion]

As mother of an only, I deal with this from time to time. He is unmotivated by grades, which we just started again this year. We've discussed like 8 said, career goals, interests, how what he is doing in school might translate to a better college experience.

 

He's a delayed writer. He handed in his first real essay last week. I kept struggling with how to grade it. It's not spectacular compared to anyone else, but it's great for him. My little momma heart was so proud, but I want him to know I expect more on the next essay. I gave him a B-. I told him that was where his ability was now and I expected more next time. I'm hoping some of his perfectionist tendencies will appear and he'll create some internal competitiveness. Hoping anyway. Is it the right way? I don't know. We'll see what happens.

 

Part of me wants to be easier on him because he did work hard, this is a real accomplishment for him. The other part of me says he's tough enough to be graded according to higher standards. My plan is to ramp up my expectations with each assignment. We don't have anyone to compare to if I wanted to. The public school are taking such different classes from us.

 

Perhaps you could make it less about the grades and set the expectation that he work at his level.

 

I did see a big jump this year (8th) in my son's efforts. He's taking more accountability for his work, much more than in 7th.

[Roxy Roller]

Every year I try to "kick it up a notch" with my expectations/work load for each kid. The problem is with my oldest. He has no one to compare his work load to except his younger siblings. Every year, he thinks I'm asking way too much of him. I believe I'm just about on target when it comes to what should be required of a 7th grader. How do I get him to see this????

 

I'm also having a hard time getting the "quality" I want from his work. Yesterday, he made a C on his science assessment. This did not even phase him. Why should it? There is no shame/embarrassment associated with grades when you hs. I'm thinking this is a real disadvantage to hsing. He's not around other 7th graders who have to do the same amount of work he does. There's no prestige associated with earning good grades.

 

I've considered sending him to middle school just so he could get an idea of what's expected of a 7th grader. I don't want to "threaten" this, bc someday I might really send him to ps, and I don't want him to see it as a punishment. Do any of you have this problem with your oldest?

 

:bigear: I could have written most of this post about my DD12, who is in 7th grade as well.

[Stacy in NJ]

He's in ps this year. :001_smile:

 

DS14 is my 85%'er. Whether I gave him challenging work or easy work, he was always satisfied with mediocre results. An 85% was just fine with him. After several years of my pushing and him resisting, he began 9th grade at our local ps this fall. Most of his courses are honors level and he's finally experiencing some competition. He has definitely upped his game because he cares very much how his peer perceive him.

[creekmom]

Thank you for all the advice. It's good to know my son is not the only one. Maybe it has something to do with puberty? We live pretty far out (not in a neighborhood), and his friends are homeschooled as well. My dh teaches at a middle school, so he knows what's expected and said he would have a talk with ds.

 

These are his courses:

Algebra (MUS)/Patty Paper Geometry

WWS

Analytical Grammar

CPO Life Science

K12 History Odyssey

Sadlier Oxford Vocabulary

First Form Latin

Various novels/essays/short stories etc. for literature

Fallacy Detective

Guitar

Architecture

 

Anyone think it's too much?

[ChiMomNP]

No, it looks fine. My 12 year old whines too. It has to be the age.

[Kim in SouthGa]

His load looks comparable to what my 7th dd is doing. I have found that around middle school age it is helpful to utilize outside classes if they are available. My kids have thrived in local coop classes, some of which are taught by retired teachers, so we get a feel for what is expected in "real" school. Maybe an online class or two would help, if there are no coops or other options available where you live. My kids do not take a ton of outside classes, but even just a couple seem to really help-especially science with labs, which seems to be so much more fun for them in a group setting (not to mention it actually gets done because the teacher is prepared as opposed to my always seeming to be out of vinegar/baking soda/epsom salt/etc when we need it).

I also think this is a problem with teenage boys, or at least that is what I have been told. My 15ds would rather flunk than ask me for help! His writing assignments to me at the beginning of the year were horrible, but as soon as I signed him up for an online class, he magically remembered how to write a decent paragraph! :confused: I am trying not to be offended and just roll with it.

[Colleen in NS]

Every year, he thinks I'm asking way too much of him. I believe I'm just about on target when it comes to what should be required of a 7th grader. How do I get him to see this????

 

Based on my small experience with one 13yo son, I don't think you could get him to see this right now. With mine (who thinks the same thing your son does), I think it's partly because of puberty. Things are changing, mindsets are changing, things are being challenged...and everything I have read here on the boards over the years indicates to me that this is all normal for this age, and that I should just stand mostly-firm-but-sometimes-flexible, and ride it out.

 

I'm also having a hard time getting the "quality" I want from his work. Yesterday, he made a C on his science assessment. This did not even phase him. Why should it? There is no shame/embarrassment associated with grades when you hs. I'm thinking this is a real disadvantage to hsing. He's not around other 7th graders who have to do the same amount of work he does. There's no prestige associated with earning good grades.

 

Is there a specific reason to give grades right now? Was his science assignment something objective that could be graded, or was it more subjective, making the grade seem more negotiable or like it doesn't really matter? I ask, because in our home, things like math or grammar or Latin assignments are grade-able (except I don't grade - I circle mistakes and they correct them and I give help as needed), and writing assignments are mostly grade-able (but again, I just have them correct), because I am just looking for grammar/spelling/mechanics/sentence-paragraph clarity, rather than looking for specific knowledge of content. This is because I am fairly content right now that my 8th grader is reading a lot and giving "output" from his reading in his writing - and he does content-area memory work. I am wondering if your son's science assignment is more about his knowing/not knowing specific scientific content, and if so, would you consider a change in mindset about that for his current age.

 

These are his courses:

Algebra (MUS)/Patty Paper Geometry

WWS

Analytical Grammar

CPO Life Science

K12 History Odyssey

Sadlier Oxford Vocabulary

First Form Latin

Various novels/essays/short stories etc. for literature

Fallacy Detective

Guitar

Architecture

 

Anyone think it's too much?

 

It's hard for me to tell - I see basic math/grammar/writing/Latin/reading/logic in there, which to me isn't too much. But I don't know anything about the expected learning in the science and history programs you've listed - I think some of those content programs have potential to be "too much" on top of the academic skills learning.

 

I will mention here that at the end of last year, I decided to drop "vocabulary" (we used VfCR) from ds' lineup - it was something that was more and more difficult to fit in, and he was just going through the motions rather than retaining the vocab. I felt that he was learning vocab from his varied reading, and that his Latin study (MP courses, and now Henle) would boost his vocab, too, in the long run. I felt bad dropping it, since he'd studied VfCR for almost three years and did well in the actual exercises. But he didn't care, so I did it.

 

Whenever my son tells me I give him too much work (a regular occurrence at the moment, lol, but I know he is joking right now), and if I KNOW, after evaluation, it's not too much; I point out the 14 yo neighbour who spends six hours at school, and rushes home to do 2-3 hours of homework, and has to spend time on homework on the weekends. And he hears other kids talking about homework, too.

 

Good luck figuring it out!

[bethben]

I was watching the approaching storm in my ds 10 to easily go that way. I started a Classical Conversation group in my town so that hopefully by the time he hit 12, there would be the upper level grades around. Even so, he has really uppped his work load. Having a buddy doing the same has really helped. He has someone else to complain with about their work horse moms.

Beth

[Perogi]

I am having the same problem with my 8yo! Yesterday she said that she wished she was in school so she would be doing the same amount of work as everyone else instead of feeling that she always has to do more. It's tough with that oldest, always plowing the way for the younger sibs in so many different ways!

[mothergooseof4]

My oldest has always complained that I give him too much work. I think you are right that they can only compare to their younger siblings and therefore, they think we are being unfair. It doesn't help that this dc thinks school is the most horrible thing ever.

 

Just today, he was complaining about having to do an assignment while his brother and sister were not even home. ONE assignment!!! I pointed out to him that he is older and as we get older our responsibilities increase. I told him that he needs to start thinking about high school and there will be even more work then. I also made sure to point out to him that his friend across the street was at school ALL day, 5 days per week, and she then had no time to play today because she had so much homework plus some chores. If ds wants, he can have all lessons and chores completed and be doing his own thing long before his psed friends even get home.

 

I think he knows my explanations make sense. He chooses to stills see his workload as unfair. I have thought of sending him to ps for a few weeks just so he could see how much free time he really does have.

[PeterPan]

Well personally, I think part of the problem is that they are gifted differently from us or don't value the same things, and it irks us.

 

Is it across the board or only a few subjects? How many weeks have you been going? You might not be into a routine enough yet to curb the whining. They have to get used to things and decide you really mean it, that they're REALLY going to have to do all this.

 

If the flubbing is just one subject, I'd negotiate and find something new. This is such a nice age for rearranging. They're old enough to give some input that is actually somewhat self-intuitive, and they're young enough that it doesn't hurt to change.

 

Do you have some way to get outside accountability where you live? A co-op? Online classes? A diploma program through VP or one of the other places so he can set a goal and know someone is watching?