If you follow a more CM style ed., at what grade do you start

[Sue G in PA]

"ramping up"? I mean, at what grade does your schedule get longer, more "intense", more "academic", etc.? I've been drawn to CM style ed. for some time now. I've finally realized that it's a better "fit" for my ds10 and ds7. While my dd11 and even my ds8 can handle a more rigorous, classical type curriculum/course of study, my ds10 and ds7 are your typical boys who need that afternoon free to explore, play, use their imagination, build treehouses, make movies, etc. So, ds10 will be in 5th...when do I start having to increase the workload? Any thoughts welcome!

[Geo]

For us, I think it will be 4th grade. Let's face it. Until then, the focus is on the learning how to use the tools (reading, handwriting). Around 4th or 5th grade the children need to start using the tools they have been practicing with. None of my children have been ready for formal dictation until at least 5th grade, though.

 

best intentions,

Geo

[at the beach]

"ramping up"? I mean, at what grade does your schedule get longer, more "intense", more "academic", etc.? I've been drawn to CM style ed. for some time now. I've finally realized that it's a better "fit" for my ds10 and ds7. While my dd11 and even my ds8 can handle a more rigorous, classical type curriculum/course of study, my ds10 and ds7 are your typical boys who need that afternoon free to explore, play, use their imagination, build treehouses, make movies, etc. So, ds10 will be in 5th...when do I start having to increase the workload? Any thoughts welcome!

 

Well, this is only our first full year with AO and CM, so I am not the most experienced on this. For us, it still feels like academics are intense even with a CM approach. :tongue_smilie: CM is quite rigorous IMO. We are using AO, but I have looked at some of CM's original writings in terms of what she did with her students. It's rigorous to say the least. Plus, they schooled on Saturdays, too.

 

The books my kids read and narrate (in AO Years 1 and 3) are CHALLENGING. A lot of energy goes into this. Then, there's math for both, Latin for my 11 yo, plus narrating. I think that CM is just a different approach, not necessarily less rigorous in the early years but certainly less focused on busy work IMHO. I think you can feel confident in knowing you are giving your kids a solid education if you follow CM's philosophy.

 

As for ramping up, well, I think you have to take it on a kid by kid approach. Some kids can handle more than others earlier on. My dd 8 is still doing copywork only for writing. I feel it's going to be a long time before she's ready for the things my 11 yo old did at 8. But I'm okay with that because I do not want to dishearten her but want her to grow and learn as she is able and provide her opportunities for doing so. My 11 yo is probably going to do AO Year 6 in the fall. This is a definite work load increase from what she did this year, but she wants to give it a try, and I am thinking that I will let her as her reading skills have really gotten strong this year.

 

Anita

[Donna T.]

"ramping up"? I mean, at what grade does your schedule get longer, more "intense", more "academic", etc.? I've been drawn to CM style ed. for some time now. I've finally realized that it's a better "fit" for my ds10 and ds7. While my dd11 and even my ds8 can handle a more rigorous, classical type curriculum/course of study, my ds10 and ds7 are your typical boys who need that afternoon free to explore, play, use their imagination, build treehouses, make movies, etc. So, ds10 will be in 5th...when do I start having to increase the workload? Any thoughts welcome!

 

 

CM is not any less academic than other approaches. The method just really stresses quality of materials and work performed over quantity. The methods are very natural and so they may seem less rigorous, but you would be surprised how effective they are and how much it requires of the child. Probably the biggest difference is in the amount of written work required of the child. There is much more oral work done in the early years. And, even though the lessons are kept short and there is ample free time, your day may not seem any shorter because you teach a multitude of subjects.

 

But, to give you some specifics:

 

Oral narration of ALL lessons from age 6 up. This is where I had been missing the mark. CM said that a lesson that is not narrated is a wasted lesson. I took that to heart and saw immediate improvement in my oldest son's oral communication.

 

Once the child has had significant experience with oral narrations, you have them write their narrations down. That is generally around 5th grade. During the 5th grade year, you would teach grammar. At that point, grammar can be taught quite informally. You don't have to use a prepared curriculum, but you can if it's not too intense. Formal grammar doesn't start until 7th grade.

 

Dictation starts around 4th or 5th grade and is the method used to teach spelling. So, spelling starts in 4th or 5th grade but really, they are learning spelling all along through their copywork (begun at age 6).

 

A foreign language is taught from first grade. Latin begins around 4th grade.

 

I don't think you ever really ramp things up... as far as making it more rigorous. You require them to "handle" more complex materials (the books) and you require them to do more written work (mostly in the form of expository writing), but it's not "more" work.

 

Ambleside Online is a great resource for learning more about implementing CM even if you are not following it for your curriculum. If you look at each year, you will see that the courses are plenty academic. The work is gradually and steadily increased as far as the complexity of the books but the methods don't change much over time.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I have to agree with Anita and Donna, it's been "rigorous" feeling to me since the beginning. I think, because the lessons are shorter and there's a lot of emphasis on living books it may seem like you're doing less. There's a lot of depth to CM.

[Peela]

I am using AO now and I have to agree with the others, CM is rigorous. And even though i didnt listen for a long time, there is no substitute for reading her books. It brings everything you read "about" her methods, translated through secondary interpreters, alive.

We are still finishing early afternoons though (my kids are ages 12 and almost 14), because I put a cap on things. For example, an hour is long enough for maths, evenf or my almost 14yo,so they just stop after an hour. Sometimes that's half a lesson, sometimes that's two lessons.

I am on several of the CM/AO/HEO yahoo groups and there sounds like there is a jump up around AO4. Some people do a 3.5 year. But the years don't necessarily correspond to the grade levels- because CM is so rigorous.

I am attracted to it because it has a different feel to straight neoclassical though. We are much happier around here with shorter lessons, covering lots of subjects, finishing early to mid afternoon at the latest, and also, the kids work much more independently, which I am surprised about. Wasn't expecting that. But maybe it's their age, too.

It seems to be a great misunderstanding though that CM is not so rigorous, or that it might even be more like unschooling...it isnt. It is not easy, and its quite structured.

[8filltheheart]

I'm not a pure CMist by any stretch, but here's my perspective.

 

When I say my kids do very little seat work until 3rd grade, it does not mean that they aren't learning. I think there is more value in explorating and self-discovery than in teacher directed education during the younger yrs. It means that they have to use that time pursuing activities that actually cause them to explore and discover. :) No tv during the day. "Unschoolish" type toys. Opportunities to ask questions and help find the answers. Enjoyment in utilizing their imagination.

 

I am reading the "Little Princess" to my youngest 3 dd's as a bedtime story right now. In the book there is one little girl that has no idea how to pretend. Academically she is slow and considered "dull." The young lady that thrives in pretend play is advanced and generally inquisitive.

 

Even though that is fiction, I believe its foundation is factual. :)

 

As far as when do I increase academics.....very gradually starting in 3rd grade. A general guideline in our household is that your academic seat work is the approximate hour equivalence of your grade level until middle school. 6-8 hr days are the norm for my older kids.

 

HTH

[Trivium Academy]

I think it depends on the child and how well they are progressing through the skills, for dd7 (to be 8) her LA is increasing in 3rd. Comparing her 1st grade year to 3rd, it's been increased a lot but it's due to the skills she's acquired. Instead of having a deadline for increased work like 5th grade, I increase it as she is ready and it won't overwhelm her.

 

After dd7 finishes Explode the Code books 7 & 8, we'll begin Simply Spelling which includes dictation. We've dabbled in dictation from PLL but haven't really used those lessons b/c I didn't feel she was ready. I feel using Simply Spelling will be the answer to using dictation at her age b/c of how it is designed with copywork 4 days of the same selection and dictation on the 5th day.

 

CM is rigorous, it may be not be done in the same fashion or approached the same as a classical education like how WTM lays it out but it still demands excellence. Instilling good habits is not easy, I've thrown away many pages of handwriting b/c dd was careless, she's done 1 selection of copywork 3x in one day because she wasn't focusing. Of course, the rigor of CM depends on how it is applied in each homeschool but here it is although we enjoy it much more. Oral narrations done in complete sentences can be done snuggled up on the couch studying a piece of art together, literary elements can be learned through poetry, I think it's an illusion that CM is easier somehow just because it involves more of a relational element than classical.

 

:) Hth

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Sue G in PA]

This has all been very helpful to me. Thank you all so much. I guess I'm still trying to break old thinking patterns about "education" and how it will play out in our hs. I was public schooled all my life...dh private schooled. Rigorous education was bookwork (workbooks, textbooks, reading comp. activities, etc.). It had to be w/ a classroom of 25+ kids...just as it usually is today. I'm trying hard to break out of that "box". CM's ideas really appeal to me and I'm seeing (w/ your help) that her education is no less "rigorous" than the traditional. In fact, it is probably much more effective. This summer I'm setting aside some time to read her material and really grasp her philosophy and methods. Everytime I read how some of you are utilizing her methods, I'm intrigued and very drawn to it. It just scares me. Teaching spelling through dictation and copywork instead of phonics/rules-based really scares me b/c of my horrible spellers. The recent thread on voracious readers not being great spellers troubles me. I'm just not "sold" that this method of learning to spell will really work. For now...we have AAS and I do have Simply Spelling...so perhaps we'll add some of that a few times each week.

 

In any case...lots of food for thought and I thank you!

[Tarheel Heather]

I am so glad you asked this question. I have often wondered about it myself. :001_smile:

[mcconnellboys]

I started to increase in logic stage, at fifth grade. I think you could certainly wait a little longer than that to begin to ramp up, however....

[Donna T.]

CM is quite rigorous IMO. We are using AO, but I have looked at some of CM's original writings in terms of what she did with her students. It's rigorous to say the least. Anita

 

:iagree:

 

I think CM is just as rigorous as "classical." In fact, CM is classical! The main difference I've seen is that CM does not focus so much on facts, drilling content, and memorization. Otherwise, it's really very similiar.

[Donna T.]

Just figured out this is an older thread! Well, it's still very interesting to chat about. :001_smile:

[prairiegirl]

We are using AO and I am finding that the 'ramp up' is gradual. In Year 4, we do Shakespeare and Plutarch. This has been a huge step up for us. At age 10 I have them write out their own narrations. I find another huge step up at Year 7. The books for that year are pretty intense. It is for that year that you start reading books on worldview, economics, and citizenship. There is nothing slack about AO's version of CM. I like, though, how CM adds in different requirements or subjects at different years so the child is not totally overwhelmed.

[AuntPol]

Year 4 if you are following Ambleside- you add grammar once a week, written narrations, dictation, typing, Shakespeare, Plutarch, Latin and you are also increasing your times for lessons and child is doing most of the readings. Science moves beyond nature studies in the 3rd grade.

 

The only things I really do differently than Ambleside:

-We do Logic Liftoff workbooks once a week (kids like logic type puzzles)

-I use SWR in conjuction with Dictation - but more in a more CMish way than laid out. It's mostly my tool of finding trouble words to use for dictations and knowing the rules to teach as they come up.

-I use IEW to help with written narrations. We do the video lessons and then use our own paragraphs. I just think Andrew helps get the kids over the fear factor better than I.

-We do a lot more science but my caveat is I actually unschool additional science. I just require that my kids work on a project for 1 hour -usually scout badges, 4-H projects science projects from ideas they found in reading, any cool history project or craft kit they have found, etc.

-I am using Iew's poetry memorization cd instead of Ambleside selections because well, it's easier for me at this time and I do like it (just think it's overpriced).

[Tree House Academy]

Cm is a gentle approach, but I would not say that a CM education is "lacking." My boys are thriving with HOD (which is CM) and I have no desire to change that. With classical, they were struggling and miserable. With CM, they are learning and ENJOYING it. That is key for us. :)