My summer plans are changing (school related) and I need some advice...

[Sue G in PA]

We will schoool year-round starting this summer. School will "end" for the year for us at the end of May..regardless of whether texts/workbooks are finished. *I* need the break. Period. I planned to start back on a light schedule (doing LLATL, Math and perhaps Science or Nature Study and finishing some more of MOH1). Well, my plans are changing b/c I'm feeling a real need to focus on some character issues with my dc. I'm feeling so defeated right now. My dc do NOT get along. It's not your normal sibling rivalry/little squabbles type stuff. It's like they try to find ways to annoy one another, hurt each other (physically and emotionally). They are nasty. We might have ONE good day each week where they get along and are genuinely NICE to each other...if we are lucky. I can't let this continue, but I don't know what to do/where to start. This is a true heart issue and punishment just doesn't work. It makes matters worse b/c the punished dc grows to resent the offended dc (the reason for the punishment) even more, KWIM? I don't have any more money to spend for a "curriculum" (not that I even think it would be helpful) or program or whatever. Here are some resources I have:

 

Making Brothers and Sisters Best Friends

Character Building for Families

Character Building Copywork

Leading Little Ones to God (for the little ones)

Little Hands to Heaven (Bible based...great for little ones)

 

 

I really need some sound advice here. My parenting up until now has been, at best, haphazard when it comes to discipline. It's like we find something that works for a week or so and then change b/c we see it stop working (I know, that is BAD...I'm laying it all our for you here...please no flames!). My biggest weapon has been my VOICE (yelling, screaming, bellowing...I can really use that diaphragm and get very LOUD...I'm not proud of that but that's how I was parented by my dad...it's all I know). It's the intimidation/fear factor, KWIM? Things must change. Attitudes must change, work ethic must change...*I* must change. I'm not looking for perfection...just an improvement. Basically...I want my home to be a home or peace and calm...not chaos and upheaval and stress like it is now. Any suggestions from the hive? I have the summer to fix this otherwise I'm sunk next fall when school starts again.

[LisaKinVA]

I think you know the first key item -- yours and your dh commitment to the program. Nothing I, or anyone else can say will "work" without the parents being on board first.

 

1. Set House Rules. (depending upon the age of the children, have them help). Things like, "we will respect one another and be kind." I like keeping our rules "positive" versus the "Do Not's" -- but think that can be a personal preference.

 

2. Enforce said rules. Each and every time, no matter what they are. My oldest (8) has a different type of "time-out" than siblings. He has a discipline journal, in which he has to write about what he did and why it was wrong, why he THINKS he did it, and what he should do instead. Sometimes there are verses and quotations involved which pertain to the issue. After his time-out, we talk about what he wrote... he has to apologize to the offended party (and me or dh), and there may (or may not) be some sort of extra activity involved ds has to do to show his apology (maybe playing a game of the sibling's choice, making a card/picture for sibling, doing a sibling's chore, etc.) That really depends upon the severity.

 

3. Keep 'em busy. If you find that they get worse when there is nothing structured going on -- structure it! For example... after lunch can be a particularly rowdy time for my bunch. On more than one occassion they have wakened the baby from her nap. We now have reading time after lunch. My son and the Nanny (and depending upon the book being read, my dd and ds #2 help) read for an hour... taking turns. They settle down and after the hour are still behaving very well (and quietly). Game time, craft time, etc. can all be done as great activities. Structured activities can also take place outdoors too (everything can take a little planning, from water balloon fights, to obstacle courses, or a simple game of follow the leader (where mom or dad is involved) can be GREAT. I know there is a Character Building Activities book which is really good.

 

4. Separate them. Sometimes kids just need some alone time. We're in very close quarters, and we get on each other's nerves after awhile. There are times I have sent DS #1 to his room with his legos for uniterrupted time, and allow another child to play on the computer, while I have cuddle/reading time with a 3rd/4th.

 

5. Set up a rewards system... If you focus on ONE thing for a week (such as kind actions), you can give each child a jar (let them decorate it). Each time you see them sharing, helping one another, etc. give them a ticket for the jar (you can substitute anything for the ticket). Once a child has 10 tickets, there is some sort of special reward. Tickets CAN be taken away as well, so they would receive the discipline AND lose a ticket.

 

Some of this may vary based upon your children's ages -- but just some ideas to get your started.

[nakitty]

I have no answers for you...however, I think their behavior sounds normal enough....such behavior is extremely taxing to us parents....but it was common in my family...and is common between my children and dh says it was the same way in his family...so, I guess it is just one of those things we do the best to minimize but can pretty much count on not totally curing... :001_huh:

[tnmomofboys]

I have no idea how old your children are but sometimes everybody needs a break and even a change of scenery. When my kids were younger, I would load them up in the car and go "some place." My ds(s) are 2 years apart and and at times still struggle to get along. I encourage them to love one another and to love well. Until they can love well, they cannot love others (i.e. no friends over). Also, Paul David Tripp has two books you might want to see if your library has: War of Words, and Age of Opportunity. These are both excellent.

 

Wishing you a peaceful summer.....

[Jen500]

I have 3 boys and they have good days and bad days. I avoid 'punishments' because they just seem to harbor more anger. Sometimes I have to sit down one on one with dc and ask him what's going on with him. Usually I get a barrage of complaints about the other dc...I let it go on a bit and then I try to help him think of better ways to deal with his anger. I tell him some of my experiences dealing w/anger, hurt feelings etc. and some things I've done that helped. Even when I feel like yelling myself I try to stay calm (sometimes I have to step into the other room for a minute first). When I see them trying something new (like one ds will go hold his hamster) instead of yelling/fighting, I always let him know I noticed his effort.

When I notice one ds continuously doing something 'mean', I have a talk-I tell him first the things he does that I like. Then I bring up the thing he's doing that I don't like and we talk. But I pick a peaceful time to do it-not after he's just had a fight w/his brother.

The only 'punishment' I give is a time out for any physical violence-that's not tolerated. But usually both kids involved are really upset when it gets to the point of hitting/punching.

I wish you luck!

Jen

[Kay in Cal]

If you are looking for a "system" to help you implement, I can't recommend "Accountable Kids" enough. We bought the book only, made up our own cards, so it was inexpensive... and now the chores get done every day, they know what expectations are, and yelling is WAY down.

 

From their site:

"Accountable Kids is a unique parenting program designed to teach accountability and responsibility in the home. It is a back-to-basics system which includes essential principles and concrete parenting tips for strengthening relationships and building a foundation for success; an ideal program for ADHD natural treatment therapy. Children learn to balance choices and consequences in a fun, productive manner."

http://www.accountablekids.com/

 

I'm sure lots of people do this naturally, but for us it was wonderful to have a system. My 6 year old is very challenging, and his behavior has significantly improved since we got this up and running.

[Rosie_0801]

I'm afraid you need to change first, or they won't have room to. I'd suggest you hit the parenting shelf at the library (which won't cost much) and dig through until you find something that makes you want to keep reading. Something that describes the sort of parent you want to become. We all need role models. Sometimes they come from books, sometimes from church, playgroup, a really touching moment you witness down at the supermarket, or something really dreadful you witness down at the supermarket.

I recommend you search the library for John Gray's "Children are from Heaven." It's waffly, but what he is actually saying is quite sound. I'd also see if you could get a copy of any "Mrs Piggle Wiggle" book. They are kids books, but aren't a bad read for parents either ;)

You need to decide on the house rules; rules that apply to you just as much as the kids. You have to legislate acceptable ways of expressing anger, because no one can be cool and calm all the time. The more reading you do, the better idea you'll have of what the rules ought to be.

Good luck,

Rosie

[Aubrey]

Sue, my parents parented this way, too. Everything, incl religion, was fear-based. So as soon as they could, my bro & sis rebelled. They weren't afraid any more.

 

I guess my fear goes pretty deep, lol, because I've had a harder time breaking away even from things I no longer believe.

 

As far as parenting, though, I've *tried* to get my dc to obey out of love instead of fear. Now, I do too much yelling & threatening, etc., too, so this is just the ideal I'm talking about, kwim?

 

Something else I noticed that's related. When dh & I first married, our "disagreements" reminded me so much of those between my bro & me. And one day after the honeymoon, I looked at dh & realized I'd married my bro. I was DOOMED to spend the rest of my life w/ this man!!!

 

And then I thought, if I could live w/ my bro, I could live w/ anyone. LOL. That's when I decided that we had to raise our children to think of ea other, love ea other first. Before us, even. Because a) it's harder, b) loving us is a little more natural, & c) if you can get along w/ your siblings, you can get along w/ anybody.

 

Our mantra is, "Who are you thinking about?" We've done various things over the yrs to teach this, i.e., for a while around 2yrs "mine" was pretty much an off-limits word. We teach them to think of ea other before their friends (like when playing outside, etc.), that they are the best gift ea other's getting from God, etc.

 

Kind-of hodge-podge, but you can see it. They'll bicker & such here (lately), but they can be brought around pretty easily. And when I watch them playing w/ the other dc here, man. They look like best friends. It's wonderful!

 

So that's my tome of wisdom. And fwiw, I've noticed that the harder I am on them--as far as yelling, harsh criticism, etc--the harder they are on ea other. Realizing that, I've just called it what it is. "You're really feeling frustrated w/ me, not your sister. You're treating her that way because I treated you that way, but I was wrong. I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?"

 

Then we move on to, "It didn't feel good when I treated you that way, did it? So I know you don't really want to hurt your sister, too. When you're frustrated w/ me, it's really important that you use your words & talk to *me*--we can solve the problem faster that way & w/ fewer hurt feelings." Or something like that.

 

GL!:grouphug:

[UnPrairieMuffin]

but, that is no excuse for being ugly to one another. I've struggled with the same thing myself (especially after my baby was born), so part of your frustration might be post-partem issues?

 

I think you need to take a breather and then reflect on the situation, child by child. Certain people add chemistry to a group that others don't. Some kids have specific issues that need to be dealt with. Perhaps some of the kids need a trip to the woodshed when dad gets home. I would try to think hard and very specifically about who is causing the trouble, usually behaviors are like Reagan Economics--they "trickle" down so to speak. If your older kids are bothering the youngers, then perhaps getting that element under control can diffuse the situation and give you peace.

 

As for character building, it kind of like charity--it all starts at home. Rosie was right about you needing to change, especially the yelling part. I'm very guilty of this especially of late, and it's an easy albeit very temporary remedy, but a cranky answer never turned away wrath. If it's too hard not to yell, grit your teeth and hold it in. It's the very beginning of self-control, a fruit of the spirit, and even small fruit is good in God's eyes. Model the behavior you want your children to have to your husband. Give them the example of a happy and loving marriage and half the battle is won. No book on character building or polished cornerstones will help you unless the behavior is modeled at home. You can't expect the kids to have what they aren't taught, and they won't pick it up through osmosis either.

 

As for fear, it is certainly not healthy to parent through continued use of it. Nobody wants to be on eggshells all of the time. However, there is a certain amount of fear that is healthy. Afterall, we are told to fear God (I am assuming your a Christian). For example, I want my sons to fear if they are disrespectful to me that their father will take issue with it. It is good and healthy for them to know that Dad cares about how they treat me, and if they aren't being respectful that he'll deal with it.

 

Like anything else in our pendelum society, it is hard to find a balance for our lives. Whatever you do, stick to it, and don't allow the kids to press your buttons.

 

Blessings,

Erin :grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

I'm afraid you need to change first, or they won't have room to. I'd suggest you hit the parenting shelf at the library (which won't cost much) and dig through until you find something that makes you want to keep reading. Something that describes the sort of parent you want to become. We all need role models. Sometimes they come from books, sometimes from church, playgroup, a really touching moment you witness down at the supermarket, or something really dreadful you witness down at the supermarket.

I recommend you search the library for John Gray's "Children are from Heaven." It's waffly, but what he is actually saying is quite sound. I'd also see if you could get a copy of any "Mrs Piggle Wiggle" book. They are kids books, but aren't a bad read for parents either ;)

You need to decide on the house rules; rules that apply to you just as much as the kids. You have to legislate acceptable ways of expressing anger, because no one can be cool and calm all the time. The more reading you do, the better idea you'll have of what the rules ought to be.

Good luck,

Rosie

 

Yes, I agree completely. I can't change them..only myself. I've read a slew of parenting books, love the Mrs. Piggle Wiggle books (we've read them all!), implemented house rules but couldn't decide on consequences. That is the root issue. We KNOW how we want the dc to act and how we want the house to run...just can't seem to figure out how to accomplish that goal, KWIM? Dh and I both tend toward punitive parenting but realize this doesn't work...it's just what we both grew up with. I guess I just don't know how to parent w/out punishment. Back to the drawing board, I guess. More reading, more confusion, more indecision... :confused: What it all boils down to is this: an overtired, overstressed, overworked, overloaded and overwhelmed, and sometimes resentful mom who desperately wants to NOT be like that but can't for the life of her figure out how to change. I'm opening myself up to lots of "hits" here for "worst mother of the year", but I'm just desperate for some suggestions. Thanks for all the advice so far...keep it coming!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Sue, I have a couple old posts (a couple turned articles) I wrote that I can send to you. I can just forward them so it wouldn't be any trouble. I'd also be happy to help a little privately as I'm kinda restricted in my activity (which is why I've been posting on this board for hours now) so it also wouldn't be any trouble.

 

I also PM'd you.

[gardenschooler]

I have one suggestion, but it's so hypocritical of me to even suggest (Hi Kettle!). There have been a few times when I've felt especially peaceful, or tried really hard, that I could react to the squabbles with a calm, soft voice, and try to talk them through it and try to see how hurtful their behavior is to each other.

 

A few times. Mostly I holler things like, "Heads are gonna roll!!!"

 

But I set the tone, and when I can set one of peace and tranquility (yes, I'm even laughing at myself now), well, when I can at least act like I expect us to be quiet and calm and rational people....it does seem to rub off a bit. The whole litany of, "You WILL NOT believe what she did to me!" seems to get diffused a little faster, and we can sort it out.

 

That's on a good day. With a blue moon rising. And I believe I saw some pigs with wings. But it has happened. Other people have this happen on a regular basis - I know, because I've seen them. I've been at their houses when the incidents occur - blood curdling screams. They don't holler. They don't get bent out of shape. And their kids are every bit as infuriating as mine are. :D

 

I'm trying to have this reaction of calm and reason happen more often than not. I have had a decent amount of success with it. I think I've got a few things on my side - I'm just too old and tired to holler anymore, for one thing!

 

You're in a tough place now, and you need things to go smoothly. I know the amount of stress you're under, and I wish there were something I could say that would help. :grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

Yes, I agree completely. I can't change them..only myself. I've read a slew of parenting books, love the Mrs. Piggle Wiggle books (we've read them all!), implemented house rules but couldn't decide on consequences.

 

Mrs Piggle Wiggle rocks ;)

 

There's been a bunch of posts lately on these sorts of issues, so I suggest you dig through them. You've read all the parenting books, you know what you want the kids to look like, what you want yourself to look like. That's good! Your question now is consequences. Really, you don't have to make consequences. Consequences happen by themselves.

The two most useful phrases I think I've ever heard with regards to children are:

"It's ok, they're just learning" (to eat nicely, to share, to walk, to read, to clean things properly, etc.)

"Accidents happen sometimes, don't they?"

These were the two most used phrases at our playgroup. The mums said them so often, the children started to say them too :) The reason these are so nice is because it takes the fault away. It's not your fault, it's not their fault, it's just a thing that happens. Sometimes things aren't anyone's fault and eventually the kids become less interested in "fault" because it doesn't matter anymore. No one is getting into trouble for accidents, and accidents are accidental, so you don't have to be cross about them either. So, step one is to see how many things that happen in your house can be solved with either of those two phrases, and a "help me clean it up."

Step two is to figure out how to phrase the consequences, and how severe they really need to be. Consequences are natural progressions from choice, they aren't punishments. The idea is that you tell them the behaviour you require, then what will happen if it doesn't get done. "I can't listen to you when you speak like that, please come back when you are able to speak nicely." (Repeat like a broken record if necessary.) The consequence is that you won't listen right now. When they come back, greet them cheerfully as if they hadn't been obnoxious two minutes ago. It's tricky, but you'll get the hang of it, and they will too. "I want you to finish your maths and English work by 11 o'clock so we can go to the park." If they don't, you commiserate. "I'm sorry, but you didn't get your work done by 11 o'clock, so we don't have time for the park. It's a bummer, I know, but you chose not to get it done on time." Expect tantrums until they get the hang of it, but they will. If they say they don't want to go to the park anyway, you can cheerfully say "well then, you can take all day to do your work if you like. That won't leave any time for playing (or whatever they like to do) though, will it?" Then you go off about your business. You don't have to be cross, because it's their business, not yours. It sounds kind of dumb, but if you are used to being angry, it's a hard habit to break. You have to learn to see the difference between things that annoy you, and the things that actually do impact you. You might not want them to break their toys, but it's their toy and if they want a new one, they'll have to save up. You don't have to get angry. You may not want them to roll in the mud, but will shouting at them help? Will asking them not to help? Will teaching them to use the washing machine help? Is your problem that they leave wet towels on the floor, or is your problem that they'll make the carpet mouldy? You can't make them pick up the towels, but you can put plastic on the floor so they won't mould the carpet. Once you've got the hang of thinking this way, you can start to supply phrases for your kids to use with each other. "When your sister hits you, I want you to say 'I don't like you hitting me, so I'm not going to play with you now' and to go to your room and close the door." When she comes wailing to you that her sibling won't play with her, you point out the obvious. "Well, he doesn't like playing with you when you hit. Maybe if you say sorry, he'll come out and play again." (Maybe he won't too. Would you blame him?)

Step three is that we are all human, and everyone shouts sometimes.

:)

Rosie

[Mosaicmind]

Sue,

I am doing the same thing and I don't even have a new baby in the house. Some of my dc go to ps, which has caused them to bicker, squabble, and sometimes have knock-down-drag-out fights around here. I am right there with you needing to work on discipline, character, and respect issues around here.

 

If you need a friend/prayer warrior during this time I would be happy to give you my phone number to call. I remember all too well bringing #7 into the mix and what havoc that can cause.

 

I am also starting to read Making Brothers and Sisters Bestfriends. I have had it for awhile but hadn't had the chance to read it. I probably need to look into some character issue type books/curriculum. I believe the best book of course is the Bible, which I think needs to be read by all my kids right now.

 

Hang in there!!! Did you get the LLATL Red Readers? :grouphug:

[Dayle in Guatemala]

First of all, it's so good that you recognize that changes need to be made. I don't think there's a mom here who hasn't stuggled with this issue in one degree or another. I commend you for your honesty in this issue. It's hard to admit that things aren't always peachy--but, we all need to be real when it comes to our families.

 

I think you are heading in the right direction. It's good to take a step back and deal with character. Teaching character is something we sometimes put aside in favor of other things because of all that needs to be covered! But, without it, we can't achieve our goals. One thing that we did that was fun, educational, and worked on character is KONOS. We used that when my dc were a lot younger, but, it's really good for middle school/jr. high as well. They do sell just one unit at a time so you don't have to invest in the whole program. It would be a great summer curriculum and it covers everything but LA and math.

 

Also, one thing that helped us as a family overcome this is positive reinforcement. I set up a jar (a large mayo or pickle jar would work) with graduated lines I drew on it. The first line was about 1/4 of the way up and it said "movie night at home". The second line was aout 1/2 of the way up and said "out for ice cream". The third was about 3/4 of the way up and said "pizza night". And at the top of the jar it said "Family Fun Day".

 

We used beans (larger ones!) to fill up the jar. Whenever I caught a child doing something kind or speaking kind words or obeying the first time I said something (in the house or outside of the house) they were allowed to add beans to the jar. When we reached the first line we did what it said "movie night at home". We would rent a movie we've been wanting to see and make some great snacks and as a family have a fun movie night at home. We would keep adding beans doing each activity until we reached Family Fun Day which was a big outing somewhere fun! We would empty the jar and start again when we were done.

 

If a child was disobedient or rude to another member of the family (in or out of the house), I would calmly (not easy!) give them their punishment and walk away so there wouldn't be arguements. A good book to help with this is Creative Correction by Lisa Whelchel. It has really great creative ways to discipline your dc. I really love this book, because so often I would just send them to their room, or ground them from something and it would often bring anger to my child, not remorse for what they've done. I want to teach them. There are good teaching things in that book. It's been real helpful to me.

 

I guess the biggest thing is bringing the joy back into parenting. It can be hard. We work so much to educate, discipline, and train that we get bogged down and forget to find the joy. Taking whatever time you need to do that is not time wasted. It's probably the absolute most important thing you will do!

 

Have a wonderful summer! I pray you find the joy!

[Sue G in PA]

A good book to help with this is Creative Correction by Lisa Whelchel. It has really great creative ways to discipline your dc. I really love this book, because so often I would just send them to their room, or ground them from something and it would often bring anger to my child, not remorse for what they've done. I want to teach them. There are good teaching things in that book. It's been real helpful to me.

 

I guess the biggest thing is bringing the joy back into parenting. It can be hard. We work so much to educate, discipline, and train that we get bogged down and forget to find the joy. Taking whatever time you need to do that is not time wasted. It's probably the absolute most important thing you will do!

 

Have a wonderful summer! I pray you find the joy!

 

I have and LOVE Creative Correction! I even heard Lisa speak last year and she was such an inspiration...must find my notes from that day. You did hit the nail on the head with your comment about bringing the joy back to parenting. I lost it somewhere along the way! There are days when I don't even enjoy being around my kids (and that's hard to admit!). We get so bogged down with the teaching, disciplining, refereeing, training and the joy is just sucked out of us!

 

Such great ideas from everyone, besides. Thank you, thank you! Lots to think about, discuss w/ dh and lots more to read and pray about.