S/O Damage to Children of Divorce

[Scarlett]

Addressing these issues snipped from your post...

 

Loving people and continuing to have a relationship with them does not condone unacceptable behavior. I seriously doubt that any adulterous person is unaware of how their close family/friends feel about their situation/choices. If I had a friend/relative in the position of committing adultery and I feared the person would think I was condoning it, I would simply tell them that while I don't condone their choices, I do love them. Any other type of love is conditional. We have all made mistakes.

 

Many people who commit adultery and later divorce don't do so with a cavalier attitude. It may cost them more than is obvious to others. Should it? Maybe. Is it for us to heap on by spending a lifetime showing our disapproval as some have suggested? I don't think anything in the Bible supports that. Quite the contrary.

 

Ok, I agree. I've done things I wouldn't want in my face the rest of my life. However, it seems to me that repentence is a huge factor in this...and when an adulterer and the partner to adultery go ahead and break up the family and then marry....that doesn't look like repentence. My best friend got a letter from the Other Woman before she married my friend's XH---apologizing! Really? She had found God I guess and felt sick at her part in destroying a marriage but she married him anyway! That is the part I can't reconcile. If you are sorry for what you have done you will STOP it. And yes I realize when they marry and go on to have children there is no way to back out then, but before then? I think it is perfectly reasonable to exclude the adultery partner from family gatherings for a while.

 

To be clear, I don't personally condone adultery, but it is not the unforgiveable sin, either. Peace to you because I believe I know the source of your pain/struggle.:grouphug:

 

Thank you. This issue isn't really an issue in my particular situation because I got custody of all the friends (all that I wanted anyway). My XH has yet to introduce his adultery partner to his mother....he really just has no one and he isn't involved in my life AT ALL--except for our son--and for the last 3-4 months he has even kept her away from our son (at son's request). But I am outraged by unrepentent adultery and society's lax view on it.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

So, the event is rather more than 2 years down the road? I would think it is time for the girl to accept some direction on what everyone else is doing, i.e. getting along with the new Mrs. .

 

I think the event in the OP was 4 years ago. The father had recently asked for a divorce and he was not yet married to the other woman. He did marry her 2 years later. OP said the girl has since gotten along with her fathe and the now new wife....this was an old incident when the wounds were all still fresh. I think.

 

One of my biggest peeves about divorce is how it hands the kids too much power (I know, not in all divorces).

 

I see it as kids losing total control of their lives. My poor son HATES that his parents are in two different houses and that his dad rarely lets him skip without some big plan to make up time. Before the divorce ds's dad would have never prevented ds from spending a Sunday afternoon with his friends...now all that has changed for ds.

[elizabeth]

This thread is so sad to me. You do not know the specifics but please know that there are people here with feelings and experiences that may differ from yours. Their truth and experience is no less valid than yours. Please do not condemn all second spouses as home wrecking adulterers. One can cheat like heck with booze, gambling, credit cards, doing nothing but disrupting the home yet only a sexual type of deceit is being discussed in the thread. There are many ways to be a terrible spouse and infidelity is but one form. People end marriages for many reasons and not all of them involve snap judgments of blame and an automatic pass for the aggrieved spouse. I could tell stories here that would make your hair stand on end with fright and none of the criminal harrasment, psychological and legal consequences could stop the offender who was allegedly the victim.

[texasmama]

However, it seems to me that repentence is a huge factor in this...and when an adultery and the partner to adultery go ahead and break up the family and then marry....that it doesn't look like repentence. My best friend got a letter from the Other Woman before she married my friend's XH---apologizing! Really? She had found God I guess and felt sick at her part in destroying a marriage but she married him anyway! That is the part I can't reconcile. If you are sorry for what you have done you will STOP it. And yes I realize when they marry and go on to have children there is no way to back out then, but before then? I think it is perfectly reasonable to exclude the adultery partner from family gatherings for a while.

 

I don't think it is possible to know the level of another person's repentance. We can only view their public behavior, which may differ from the condition of their heart, where true repentence lies.

 

In my opinion, being remorseful and moving on with remarriage are not mutually exclusive. Situations are usually more complex than anyone realizes looking from the outside.

 

I don't find it unreasonable for an adultery partner to be asked to refrain from attending extended family gatherings for a time out of respect for the feelings of others.

 

Life is messy. Marriage is messy. Extended family is messy. Nothing is really gained for anyone by long-term exclusion of a family member's partner, though. At some point, the core relationship between the blood family suffers. Some people are willling to continue that level of anger for a long time, but I am not clear how that benefits anyone involved. Just my opinion.

[Scarlett]

This thread is so sad to me. You do not know the specifics but please know that there are people here with feelings and experiences that may differ from yours. Their truth and experience is no less valid than yours. Please do not condemn all second spouses as home wrecking adulterers.

 

I don't think anyone on this site thinks that! I'm a second spouse!

 

One can cheat like heck with booze, gambling, credit cards, doing nothing but disrupting the home yet only a sexual type of deceit is being discussed in the thread.

 

That was what the OP was about.

 

There are many ways to be a terrible spouse and infidelity is but one form. People end marriages for many reasons and not all of them involve snap judgments of blame and an automatic pass for the aggrieved spouse. I could tell stories here that would make your hair stand on end with fright and none of the criminal harrasment, psychological and legal consequences could stop the offender who was allegedly the victim.

 

Elizabeth, this is not about ending marriages for other reasons. I agree there are other reasons to end a marriage. There are situations no one should have to endure. However, that in no way gives the injured mate the right to commit adultery.

[Scarlett]

I don't think it is possible to know the level of another person's repentance. We can only view their public behavior, which may differ from the condition of their heart, where true repentence lies. .

 

This is true, however, repentence requiress action when possible. A component of it is ACTION. Of course in the end, no one can read a heart....a person could in fact, do all the right things and still not be really repentent. But I stand by my belief that when you are able to make recompense and you don't it shows a lack of repentence.

 

I don't find it unreasonable for an adultery partner to be asked to refrain from attending extended family gatherings for a time out of respect for the feelings of others.

 

Life is messy. Marriage is messy. Extended family is messy. Nothing is really gained for anyone by long-term exclusion of a family member's partner, though. At some point, the core relationship between the blood family suffers. Some people are willling to continue that level of anger for a long time, but I am not clear how that benefits anyone involved. Just my opinion.

 

 

The bolded---well said. As I said, I wrestle with the line-. I have always leaned toward being rigid on these issues....

[foxbridgeacademy]

You don't leave anyone out, if the teen chooses to not attend, that's up to her. She's making the choice to act like a child. She will likely regret her behaviour in the future but only if shown her behaviour is unacceptable. Her father made the choice to leave her mother, if she feels the need to give someone the silent treatment it should be him.

[Scarlett]

You don't leave anyone out, if the teen chooses to not attend, that's up to her. She's making the choice to act like a child.

 

Hmm. Maybe because she WAS a child.

 

 

She will likely regret her behaviour in the future but only if shown her behaviour is unacceptable. Her father made the choice to leave her mother, if she feels the need to give someone the silent treatment it should be him.

 

Well, it has been four years and apparently she has moved on. However, I don't think her 'behavior' was unacceptable. "Please Dad don't bring your adultery partner to Grandma's for dinner....it is too fresh and raw for me."

 

What is unacceptable is her father leaving her mother for another woman.

 

 

I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe sometimes.

[angela in ohio]

Honestly I dont care where it begins or ends, and I don't care if dad and his new honey feel supported or offended. My only effort would be to support the child whose family was destroyed and make sure she had the support of her extended family in the aftermath of the divorce. It's sad that the "grownups" couldn't let her have that.

 

:iagree:

[texasmama]

You don't leave anyone out, if the teen chooses to not attend, that's up to her. She's making the choice to act like a child. She will likely regret her behaviour in the future but only if shown her behaviour is unacceptable. Her father made the choice to leave her mother, if she feels the need to give someone the silent treatment it should be him.

)

 

I don't find it unacceptable for a teen (or an adult, for that matter) to set a boundary of not wanting to be at a family gathering with someone who caused a great deal of hurt to her during the intial period afterwards.

[Joanne]

)

 

I don't find it unacceptable for a teen (or an adult, for that matter) to set a boundary of not wanting to be at a family gathering with someone who caused a great deal of hurt to her during the intial period afterwards.

 

 

This, totally.

 

While kids *are* capable of exploiting and manipulating situations, they should be the center of care, nurture, focus, and *grace* in the aftermath of their parent's split.

 

I don't know when a child should be reigned in, but it shouldn't be early on and if an error of grace given, it should be to the child in the picture, not the adults.

 

Children should not be made, encouraged, or coerced into accepting new loves - directly or indirectly. If in the company of someone, they should be either courteous or at least silent, but they should not have to tacitly accept or normalize a new love, especially if that love caused the breakup.

[Scarlett]

This, totally.

 

While kids *are* capable of exploiting and manipulating situations, they should be the center of care, nurture, focus, and *grace* in the aftermath of their parent's split.

 

I don't know when a child should be reigned in, but it shouldn't be early on and if an error of grace given, it should be to the child in the picture, not the adults.

 

Children should not be made, encouraged, or coerced into accepting new loves - directly or indirectly. If in the company of someone, they should be either courteous or at least silent, but they should not have to tacitly accept or normalize a new love, especially if that love caused the breakup.

 

Thank you!!!

[BamaTanya]

Ironically, this article popped up in my news-surfing tonight.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303544604576430341393583056.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read

 

The phrase "friendly divorce" may strike some as an oxymoron, but it is increasingly a trend and a real possibility. Relatively inexpensive and nonadversarial divorce mediation—rather than pricey, contentious litigation—is now more common than ever. Many of us are all too familiar with the brutal court fights of our parents, and we have no intention of putting our kids through it, too.

 

I'll look for a brighter one tomorrow.

[Peela]

I am wondering why the OP is still upset over this 4 years later when everyone else has moved on? If it still makes you shake as you write the words....isn't it time to do some letting go and forgiving yourself?

 

People do hurtful things. But we hurt ourselves over and over if we don't let go and forgive them anyway. And basically, people such as the grandma may have made a mistake, or not- she may have regretted it and she just never told you. The father may have been defensive and acted arrogantly....but later softened. The 13yo was speaking out about her pain and perhaps wasn't handled so well by a father in the throes of a new romance. But...they survived. And your pain for the girl doesn't help her or anyone anymore.

 

I was in the same situation as the 13yo, and i found it extremely difficult to be around either of my parents' new partners as I was so devastated (both partners were on the scene before my parents separated, but I think they were a sign that my parents had given up rather than the actual cause of their breakup). Neither parent was sensitive to me about it although I think they did try- I reacted very strongly and negatively to the whole breakup.

 

These threads about children of divorce are stirring up a little in me that hasn't been fully healed, too, although I have done much healing work around the issue...the way I see it, it is 100% my responsibility to handle my feelings, to forgive and let go, to heal. If I am blaming anyone anymore, I haven't healed yet, and the only person I am hurting is myself.

[Cassy]

Peela, yes I know it shouldn't upset me four years later, which is one reason I'm grateful to be able to discuss it here. The reason it upsets me is that I did nothing at the time. They were fairly close family, I knew a lot about the original marriage (of BIL/SIL, nieces' parents), and at the time I stood by and watched it all unfold and did nothing, said nothing. There is still pain and anger in that situation four years later, and my niece, now seventeen, has suffered terrible problems in the interim. I never said or did anything at the time because it was all such a terrible mess and so many people's feelings were hurt that I felt another strong opinion would just inflame things more, which I'm sure it would. But I still feel guilty for not standing up for what I felt was right at the time, and I suppose I wanted some kind of validation from someone that my feelings were right. Also, some of the people involved are still part of my life and I have big issues of trust where they're concerned, so there's that part too that's bugging me. This incident was an example of how I can be pushed about by them and I'd like that to stop. So, while maybe it shouldn't have been, this is probably a bit about me too.

 

I'm sorry all this has brought up old hurts for you :grouphug:.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

[Peela]

Peela, yes I know it shouldn't upset me four years later, which is one reason I'm grateful to be able to discuss it here. The reason it upsets me is that I did nothing at the time. They were fairly close family, I knew a lot about the original marriage (of BIL/SIL, nieces' parents), and at the time I stood by and watched it all unfold and did nothing, said nothing. There is still pain and anger in that situation four years later, and my niece, now seventeen, has suffered terrible problems in the interim. I never said or did anything at the time because it was all such a terrible mess and so many people's feelings were hurt that I felt another strong opinion would just inflame things more, which I'm sure it would. But I still feel guilty for not standing up for what I felt was right at the time, and I suppose I wanted some kind of validation from someone that my feelings were right. Also, some of the people involved are still part of my life and I have big issues of trust where they're concerned, so there's that part too that's bugging me. This incident was an example of how I can be pushed about by them and I'd like that to stop. So, while maybe it shouldn't have been, this is probably a bit about me too.

 

I'm sorry all this has brought up old hurts for you :grouphug:.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

 

No worries about me...and i understand it is part of your healing to talk about it.

:grouphug:

[momma aimee]

It is pretty simple...adultery breaks up marriages. Cheaters tell themselves all sorts of stories about WHY they just HAD to have sex with someone other than their spouse, but the fact is they don't. Nothing that goes wrong in a marriage is justification for adultery. If your marriage is so horrible you just cannot stay in it, then WHY do you need a third party to get out of it?

 

Saying it is morally wrong to leave your spouse for another is not judging.

 

Agreed.

 

a marraige is a conmitment. no one promises it is gonna be easy -- in fact everyone tells you it is gonna be HARD. -- you stick it out -- if there is an issue, you fix it -- you do not run.

 

if nothing else, what does it teach kids -- as soon as something is hard, or not happy, you cut and run -- is that what we want our kids to learn?

 

Peela -- it may be 100% your responiblity as an ADULT to heal -- it was not your responiblity as a child when your parents wrongly put their lust before their very real obligations to you. I am sorry you went though that and i am sorry your parents put themsevles first -- that is just wrong.

[texasmama]

Peela, yes I know it shouldn't upset me four years later, which is one reason I'm grateful to be able to discuss it here. The reason it upsets me is that I did nothing at the time. They were fairly close family, I knew a lot about the original marriage (of BIL/SIL, nieces' parents), and at the time I stood by and watched it all unfold and did nothing, said nothing. There is still pain and anger in that situation four years later, and my niece, now seventeen, has suffered terrible problems in the interim. I never said or did anything at the time because it was all such a terrible mess and so many people's feelings were hurt that I felt another strong opinion would just inflame things more, which I'm sure it would. But I still feel guilty for not standing up for what I felt was right at the time, and I suppose I wanted some kind of validation from someone that my feelings were right. Also, some of the people involved are still part of my life and I have big issues of trust where they're concerned, so there's that part too that's bugging me. This incident was an example of how I can be pushed about by them and I'd like that to stop. So, while maybe it shouldn't have been, this is probably a bit about me too.

 

:grouphug: You have a lot of insight about how this has affected you and the reasons why. It is not too late to speak to your niece and to validate her feelilngs about the break up and make a short statement about what you wished you had done differently as things unfolded. That may help some healing for both you and her. In the moment of traumatic events, even the most self-aware person can falter and not know what to do or how to handle the situation. IMO, though, it is never too late to say to your niece, "I love you. I'm sorry for what happened. I wish I had made some different decisions but mostly, I wish you had not be put in a painful position." Then model for your niece that you have forgiven yourself, as well. And do it. You weren't the guilty party in this situation. You just played the cards which were dealt to you.:grouphug:

[AHASRADA]

I haven't read all the posts, but in my opinion, both dad and step-mom should be excluded from family occasions, based on their adulterous, home-wrecking behavior. If she was simply the step-mom, that would be a totally different situation. However, since this is the woman who broke up the family, the granddaughter, and anyone else for that matter, has every right to expect that the woman not be welcome in family members' homes.

 

Grandma should have defended her granddaughter and uninvited both her son and his new wife if he insisted on bringing her along.

 

My $0.02.

[Scarlett]

I haven't read all the posts, but in my opinion, both dad and step-mom should be excluded from family occasions, based on their adulterous, home-wrecking behavior. If she was simply the step-mom, that would be a totally different situation. However, since this is the woman who broke up the family, the granddaughter, and anyone else for that matter, has every right to expect that the woman not be welcome in family members' homes.

 

Grandma should have defended her granddaughter and uninvited both her son and his new wife if he insisted on bringing her along.

 

My $0.02.

 

And at the time of the incident she wasn't even yet the step-mom....just a girlfriend and the situation was still new and the pain fresh for the young girl (13 years old).

[Orthodox6]

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

 

What follows is personal opinion, only. . . . Within my worldview, the child was on solid ground. Parents sometimes "shop around" to find therapists who agree with what they (the parents) believe in the first place, then promote the like-minded therapist as "an authority". Again, acknowledging that my worldview is not the same as everybody else's, I consider that the child was "conducting herself as an adult", and that the father was "acting like a child."

[momma aimee]

I haven't read all the posts, but in my opinion, both dad and step-mom should be excluded from family occasions, based on their adulterous, home-wrecking behavior. If she was simply the step-mom, that would be a totally different situation. However, since this is the woman who broke up the family, the granddaughter, and anyone else for that matter, has every right to expect that the woman not be welcome in family members' homes.

 

Grandma should have defended her granddaughter and uninvited both her son and his new wife if he insisted on bringing her along.

 

My $0.02.

:iagree:

 

there is a big differnce in a 2nd spouce met after a divorce vs the mistress (turned spouce or not) thus cause of divorce.

[beezus]

 

While kids *are* capable of exploiting and manipulating situations, they should be the center of care, nurture, focus, and *grace* in the aftermath of their parent's split.

 

I don't know when a child should be reigned in, but it shouldn't be early on and if an error of grace given, it should be to the child in the picture, not the adults.

 

 

 

It sounds like the OP's niece has grown and accepted dad's new wife over time, but when the child was 13 and the loss of her family unit was fresh and very painful, it seems rather insensitive of dad to be accusing a child of being manipulative while trying to force every in the family to accept his choice. I agree that during that early time frame, more grace should have been extended to this young girl, rather than focusing on dad's self-centered needs. She is fortunate to have such a caring auntie as OP, who is still thinking about this incident so long after the event. I like texasmama's s suggestion about talking to the girl about this. She might be really happy to know that OP is still concerned about how this affected her.

[Cassy]

:grouphug: You have a lot of insight about how this has affected you and the reasons why. It is not too late to speak to your niece and to validate her feelilngs about the break up and make a short statement about what you wished you had done differently as things unfolded. That may help some healing for both you and her. In the moment of traumatic events, even the most self-aware person can falter and not know what to do or how to handle the situation. IMO, though, it is never too late to say to your niece, "I love you. I'm sorry for what happened. I wish I had made some different decisions but mostly, I wish you had not be put in a painful position." Then model for your niece that you have forgiven yourself, as well. And do it. You weren't the guilty party in this situation. You just played the cards which were dealt to you.:grouphug:

 

Thank you so much Carol, I might just talk to her more directly about it. So far I've tried to show my love and support in a more general manner, as there were always so many sensitivities about whose side people were on and who wasn't being supportive enough of who. I've had enough now and feel I want to be on my niece's side, and on the side of the truth. I always doubted myself a bit until now because of BIL's insistence that he'd been told this was the way to go about things. Having talked this through with people here, I've come to the point where I'm just a bit weary now of BIL's need to always have his own way.

 

Cassy

[Scarlett]

Thank you so much Carol, I might just talk to her more directly about it. So far I've tried to show my love and support in a more general manner, as there were always so many sensitivities about whose side people were on and who wasn't being supportive enough of who. I've had enough now and feel I want to be on my niece's side, and on the side of the truth. I always doubted myself a bit until now because of BIL's insistence that he'd been told this was the way to go about things. Having talked this through with people here, I've come to the point where I'm just a bit weary now of BIL's need to always have his own way.

 

Cassy

 

I agree with Texasmama too....I think it might come as a great relief to your niece to know that her sense of morality was not out of whack.

 

Is this your husband's brother?

[elizabeth]

I am wondering why the OP is still upset over this 4 years later when everyone else has moved on? If it still makes you shake as you write the words....isn't it time to do some letting go and forgiving yourself?

 

People do hurtful things. But we hurt ourselves over and over if we don't let go and forgive them anyway. And basically, people such as the grandma may have made a mistake, or not- she may have regretted it and she just never told you. The father may have been defensive and acted arrogantly....but later softened. The 13yo was speaking out about her pain and perhaps wasn't handled so well by a father in the throes of a new romance. But...they survived. And your pain for the girl doesn't help her or anyone anymore.

 

I was in the same situation as the 13yo, and i found it extremely difficult to be around either of my parents' new partners as I was so devastated (both partners were on the scene before my parents separated, but I think they were a sign that my parents had given up rather than the actual cause of their breakup). Neither parent was sensitive to me about it although I think they did try- I reacted very strongly and negatively to the whole breakup.

 

These threads about children of divorce are stirring up a little in me that hasn't been fully healed, too, although I have done much healing work around the issue...the way I see it, it is 100% my responsibility to handle my feelings, to forgive and let go, to heal. If I am blaming anyone anymore, I haven't healed yet, and the only person I am hurting is myself.

 

Your post is as usual, gracious, honest and kind. I think you are incredible.

[texasmama]

Thank you so much Carol, I might just talk to her more directly about it. So far I've tried to show my love and support in a more general manner, as there were always so many sensitivities about whose side people were on and who wasn't being supportive enough of who. I've had enough now and feel I want to be on my niece's side, and on the side of the truth. I always doubted myself a bit until now because of BIL's insistence that he'd been told this was the way to go about things. Having talked this through with people here, I've come to the point where I'm just a bit weary now of BIL's need to always have his own way.

 

Cassy

 

You're welcome. You seem like an awesome aunt to have.

[Laurie4b]

There is no excuse for what that father did. He essentially chose his girlfriend (and later wife) over his daughter. Inexcusable, IMO. I've had that done to me... twice. It's not a matter of a teenager not having too much power. It's more of a father assuring his daughter in the midst of a life changing event that she is still his daughter, no matter what, and he still loves her.

 

He chose himself over his daughter. Otherwise, I agree with everything above.

 

No way is this about the daughter having too much power. This is about not rubbing salt in his daughter's wounds.

 

And yes, I can totally believe a therapist said this. Other therapists would have said he needs to attend to his daughter's needs. Therapists are not neutral, nor are they all repositories of wisdom. That's just a myth. And therapists only know what their clients tell them. They don't know the rest of the story.

[Joanne]

He chose himself over his daughter. Otherwise, I agree with everything above.

 

No way is this about the daughter having too much power. This is about not rubbing salt in his daughter's wounds.

 

And yes, I can totally believe a therapist said this. Other therapists would have said he needs to attend to his daughter's needs. Therapists are not neutral, nor are they all repositories of wisdom. That's just a myth. And therapists only know what their clients tell them. They don't know the rest of the story.

 

Maybe. It's *far* more likely, IMO, that Dad made it up. It would be consistent with Dad's behavior and thinking at the time. Affairs create an addiction-like behavior and the lying that comes with it.

[Scarlett]

Maybe. It's *far* more likely, IMO, that Dad made it up. It would be consistent with Dad's behavior and thinking at the time. Affairs create an addiction-like behavior and the lying that comes with it.

 

Yep. The lies I've heard made up by cheating spouses boggles the mind.