If you are RC or EO...

[cathmom]

Oh wow Cathmom what a beautiful gift you were given! I had equally good instruction in the faith. :tongue_smilie: It's through homeschooling that I've been learning about our beautiful faith. :)

 

I've heard that the "smoke" around the altar is sometimes seen as a haze and is actually the Angels surrounding the altar during the Consecration.

 

Thank you! I'm sorry about your "equally good instruction" LOL!

 

I later read the story of a Germanic king Wittikind (I think) who converted when he saw Jesus in the Host also.

 

I've never heard that about the smoke or haze but it makes sense! Thanks!

[Teachin'Mine]

I've heard of others seeing Jesus' face in the Host. Admittedly, I always look, but haven't seen. But I know just as surely that Jesus is truly present. :) Sometimes people are gifted with a brief look beyond this world, and the veil between here and Heaven is temporarily lifted. It's then that people have seen the haze around the altar. I've heard it said that it's actually the beating of a host of Angel's wings. I've never seen this either, but I know that the Angels are there. :)

[Little Nyssa]

I was brought up in the RCC--- our particular church was very dead-- we found out years later that a couple of the clergy had serious problems and were probably just trying to get through the day... our family suffered a lot through not receiving good pastoral care.

Starting at age 18, I went through several years of searching, exploring atheism and every variety of Xnity... I settled down in EO. I can not put all my reasons for loving EO here, it is very all-encompassing, I would need to write several volumes!-- you can read the Exploring Orthodoxy social group posts to see much wisdom the ladies have posted...

I love, love, love where I am now. I feel that this is the best place that I can continue growing in my faith.

However, if I had been brought up in a more alive RCC parish, I probably would have stayed RCC and never given it another thought. I like the RCC, overall, and I am very fond of the current Pope, God bless him!

I can never go back, because I am now bound to the EO by strong family ties, and my intense love for EO. Hardly anyone in my family is still RCC. But, I am terribly sad when I think that I am apart from "my people", the Irish. Whenever I visit a Catholic college or visit a Catholic church I feel sad. When my son was at Catholic school I used to visit the school Mass and the tears just poured down my face. I hope that we will all be reunited soon, Primero Dios.

[Aelwydd]

I'm Episcopalian (sort of), so I don't have any skin in this game. However, to answer the question of RC vs. EO, I have only this to say...

 

 

(Set to the

)

 

Main refrain:

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son!

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son...

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son,

Soooon, and the Son, Son, Son!

 

 

Disclaimer: No Catholics or Orthodox were harmed in the making of this Filioque... :D

 

No disrespect intended. Please carry on once more with the regular programming...

Edited June 2, 2011 by Aelwydd

[milovany]

Disclaimer: No Catholics or Orthodox were harmed in the making of this Filoque... :D

 

No disrespect intended. Please carry on once more with the regular programming...

 

:lol:

{Although it's true for us. The filioque did played a role in our choice. It was one of those unchanging things about Orthodoxy that called us home.}

[Aelwydd]

:lol:

{Although it's true for us. The filioque did played a role in our choice. It was one of those unchanging things about Orthodoxy that called us home.}

 

You are totally laughing because I mispelled "filioque" aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

Anyway, I fixed it. Not the filioque, itself! (There's a thousand years no one's ever getting back. :glare:) I refer to my butchering of the spelling, of course.

[milovany]

You are totally laughing because I mispelled "filioque" aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!

 

 

LOL, I hadn't even noticed. Back down! :001_huh: :001_smile:

 

But, um, now I'm laughing because you misspelled "misspelled." :D

[Aelwydd]

Boys and girls, BEER and BENEDRYL do NOT mix well.

 

That is all. Good night.

 

(This message has been brought to you by the letter "C," as in "chagrin!")

 

:blush: :blushing:

[asta]

EO/RCC, IMO, are two sides of the same coin; East and West. And just as a person one side of the globe may "see" something slightly differently than a person on the other side of the globe, so did the two sides of the EO/RC coin evolve.

 

AFAIK, I have been Catholic for an eternity. From before I was born. I could tell you stories of experiences that would give you goosebumps and make your hair stand on end. My soul is an old, old soul, and it is rooted on the rock of Peter.

 

Who p!ssed off whom in the long line of the history of this particular coin is not my concern, but keeping the data straight is as ingrained in me as is my DNA. I haven't had all of these odd things happen (and scare the cr@p out of me) for nothing. Sometimes I have time for lots of links, sometimes not (like this morning).

 

That said:

 

There has been an accusation going around that those of us that chose or look into EO do so because 1) high liturgy and 2) can't "swallow" the Pope as the "final authority" (my apologies, but this is a false accusation that needs to be dispelled. I would not go presuming why someone chooses the RC over EO).

 

I was given a choice between the EO and the RC. I was also familiar with both as we have friends that are RC (one that is closer than family) and family that had converted to EO. We were already appreciative of "high church" due to being Reformed prior to conversion. Both the RC and the EO have this. On the issue of the Pope, I don't have a problem with the Pope and, in fact, the position and person has my respect. I believe in how things are shown in Scripture and History and that would mean that I believe that he was the first amoung EQUALS, not that he is the end of the line at the top, above others.

 

The Pope is actually the Bishop of Rome. He is elected by a conclave of Bishops from around the world, guided by the Holy Spirit. It is said (sometimes jokingly) that the Church gets the Pope it needs, not necessarily the Pope it wants. His actual title doesn't even include "Pope", though Pope John Paul II started a tradition of signing things "Papa".

 

Coming from a background full of spiritual abuse, I appreciate (and believe in) the way the EO balances the Church and the Leaders in a way that the RC does not.

 

The EO sees the spiritual life as a journey. I don't have to hold to all the tenets immediately or understand everything before conversion. They took me, a Puritan, where I was and let me grow, let God work on me, and there was no judgment. I've changed a lot in the past two years and no longer call myself a Puritan.

 

There is no requirement in the RCC to do this.

 

I'm a TCK. I'm tired of being told that I have to fit everyone's mold. Nope, doesn't work. I actually do better in a culture that UNDERSTANDS (this is different than simply knowing) that I'm not what they are and was not raised as they were. The EO has been very gracious with me where I don't think your typical American RC would be.

 

I have to agree with you: The American RC can be... interesting. The RCC adapts to whatever country in which it operates. eg: the traditional mass will incorporate aspects of local culture as a means of "making people comfortable" (that sounds trite - it isn't meant to - but a Korean Catholic mass and an American Catholic mass have a different "flavor"). The American RCC (as a whole) really went astray in my opinion. It is slowly being reeled back in. Kicking and screaming. (again, IMO)

 

I agree with the EO view of Mary's Assumption, rather than the RC view.

 

Paedo Communion is more consistent with Paedo Baptism (this is something that had been studied before considering either, as it's a debate amoungst Reformed). And even the RC have admitted that this is something that they changed.

 

Standard disagreements between the two. ;-)

 

Reading about the Great Schism, I side with the EO as it was the RC that wanted to make changes that were not accepted by the rest of the Church.

 

Scholars are still debating that one, actually. If you ask an EO scholar, it was the RC's "fault". If you ask an RC scholar, it was the EO's "fault". I suspect none of us in this age will ever really know what happened in 1054 (or in the scurrying that led up to it).

 

Working through History, I fall more on the side of how the EO handled mission work amoungst other cultures, with respect to those cultures, than how the RC handled things many times.

 

The amount of political intrigue and manipulations throughout history are seen in the RC in a way I have not seen it when reading about the EO.

 

 

When I was very angry with the Church, I saw only horrors. When I was less angry, I saw great injustices. Nowadays, I see bad and good. I recognize that everyone and every institution has a light and a dark side.

 

The Church Tradition of the Early Church Fathers do not reflect some of todays RC's teachings, but still reflect the EO's teachings (Dh's addition and falls with what I stated above about the Great Schism. From what he has read and studied the EO has truly remained unchanged throughout the ages in it's Traditions and Doctrine).

 

There was only one Church until 1054, so it is reasonable that the coin is made of the same metal. Why one side chose one design and the other side a different one... ? This is seen as the tradition of the RCC continuing on as a living Church.

 

I agree with the EO view of Iconography over the RC's Statuaries (though this is a smaller issue with me now than it was when first converting), particularly since I was coming from an Iconoclastic POV.

 

They are beautiful, aren't they? I have one next to my Mary statue.

 

I agree with the EO view on Priests and Marriage, not the RC ban on it in most of their Churches or in history.

 

I agree with the EO taking circumstances and context into consideration with some of their views, rather than making a sweeping, dogmatic decree (aka methods of birth control/sterilization. The EO is against birth control, but takes into consideration a mother's health, etc is still against abortifacient forms of birth control, but is not against natural, barrier, or sterilisation when necessary. The RC view is simply, NFP/FAM or nothing...which, having been there, does NOT work for everyone).

 

This is incorrect. Please take a moment to read the Humanae Vitae from Vatican II. The RC most certainly takes a mother's health into consideration!

 

The EO's view of Original Sin.

 

Those old guys really knew how to split a hair, didn't they! LOL (there are some scholars working on reconciling that...)

 

The EO is not as "judicial" as the RC is. I'm burnt out on the pounding out every doctrine and bit of theology until the horse is dead and we state that we know who God is, how He works, etc, etc, as though we know everything about Him, better than He does (something the Reformed inherited from the RC). My years with all of that wiped me out in so many ways. I'm fine with God and His ways being a Mystery and something that I will never fully understand.

 

Where do you see this? I read lots of things in regards to how the bible and Church tradition relates to current problems in the world (the AIDs crisis, the disintegration of the family, war, etc.), and reassurances THAT God is working and is there to help, but not HOW. This is a sincere question.

 

There's more, but these are off the top of my head. Please, to my RC sisters, do not take offense to what I have said. These are MY reasons and MY views and MY beliefs. I understand and respect that you believe differently and still I see a lot of connection between us. I don't believe unity will happen in my lifetime, but maybe one day (if not here, at least we will have it in Heaven).

 

No offense taken.

 

We have lots of people interested in this coin this year (great year for precious metals!) - good information is always good.

 

 

a

[Mama2Many4]

Cathmom....That was truly beautiful to read. I only wish I could experience something like that.

[asta]

I had someone wise tell me once upon a time that spirituality is like a radio. Most people cruise along, listening to the pre-sets, and only hear static in-between them.

 

A few people, though, hear the stations buried in the static. They are "tuned differently" spiritually.

 

I thought that was a good explanation for those who experience the divine.

 

 

asta

[cathmom]

Cathmom....That was truly beautiful to read. I only wish I could experience something like that.

 

Thank you. However,

 

Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. [29] Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Sometimes people are gifted with a brief look beyond this world' date=' and the veil between here and Heaven is temporarily lifted. [/quote']

 

I've never seen the haze around the altar (never even heard of it) but I have this to share...

 

I've been an 'extraordinary' minister of Communion for a few years. For personal reasons I don't want to get into on a public message board, I wanted to step away from that, but once in a while, I was needed and I would go up. One day, I happened to be standing next to the priest, handing out Communion on autopilot (that's part of the reason I wanted to stand back from that position). As I presented the host to a lady, and said "Body of Christ", from behind me came a very distinct, male, "Amen". I jumped, promptly gave the host, turned around, and there was no one there. The priest, unaware of this, continued handing out communion, and I could tell right away that it wasn't his voice at all that I had heard. There was NOBODY who could have been near me at that time.

 

I can tell you that definitely shook me out of automatic mode! I was shaking all through the rest of Communion. Real Presence of Christ, for sure!!!

[cathmom]

I've been an 'extraordinary' minister of Communion for a few years. For personal reasons I don't want to get into on a public message board, I wanted to step away from that, but once in a while, I was needed and I would go up. One day, I happened to be standing next to the priest, handing out Communion on autopilot (that's part of the reason I wanted to stand back from that position). As I presented the host to a lady, and said "Body of Christ", from behind me came a very distinct, male, "Amen". I jumped, promptly gave the host, turned around, and there was no one there. The priest, unaware of this, continued handing out communion, and I could tell right away that it wasn't his voice at all that I had heard. There was NOBODY who could have been near me at that time.

 

I can tell you that definitely shook me out of automatic mode! I was shaking all through the rest of Communion. Real Presence of Christ, for sure!!!

 

Wow!

[mommaduck]

I'm Episcopalian (sort of), so I don't have any skin in this game. However, to answer the question of RC vs. EO, I have only this to say...

 

 

(Set to the

)

 

Main refrain:

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son!

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son...

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son,

Soooon, and the Son, Son, Son!

 

 

Disclaimer: No Catholics or Orthodox were harmed in the making of this Filioque... :D

 

No disrespect intended. Please carry on once more with the regular programming...

 

Ah, another reason I'm EO! (but that falls under RC additions that I spoke of)

[mommaduck]

The Pope is actually the Bishop of Rome. He is elected by a conclave of Bishops from around the world, guided by the Holy Spirit. It is said (sometimes jokingly) that the Church gets the Pope it needs, not necessarily the Pope it wants. His actual title doesn't even include "Pope", though Pope John Paul II started a tradition of signing things "Papa".

 

I'm aware of this. However, whenever I've called him the Bishop of Rome (as we view him and as he is) it seems to make some RC people a bit irate. So I was being polite ;)

 

There is no requirement in the RCC to do this.

 

I thought that was the point of RCIA? Also, from what I have read of inquisitions and conversions in history, I thought this was required. (still, there were certain walls I knew I would not be able to breach and I'm a bit overly honest. I did not feel I could honestly be RC. I felt the Spirit leading us to EO and knew that there would be changes in my own heart and mind there)

 

I have to agree with you: The American RC can be... interesting. The RCC adapts to whatever country in which it operates. eg: the traditional mass will incorporate aspects of local culture as a means of "making people comfortable" (that sounds trite - it isn't meant to - but a Korean Catholic mass and an American Catholic mass have a different "flavor"). The American RCC (as a whole) really went astray in my opinion. It is slowly being reeled back in. Kicking and screaming. (again, IMO)

 

This is not what I'm referring to. In fact, it was that it did NOT adapt to some cultures as it did others. The cultures it did not adapt to and did not attempt to prevent the slaughter of are dear to me as part of my heritage. The EO example in Alaska is quite different. Yes, old news and not a current situation, but it showed a consistency in the EO that the RC does not have.

 

Standard disagreements between the two. ;-)

 

yep!

 

Scholars are still debating that one, actually. If you ask an EO scholar, it was the RC's "fault". If you ask an RC scholar, it was the EO's "fault". I suspect none of us in this age will ever really know what happened in 1054 (or in the scurrying that led up to it).

 

Exactly...again though, I read about it and decided that I agree with the EO scholars.

 

When I was very angry with the Church, I saw only horrors. When I was less angry, I saw great injustices. Nowadays, I see bad and good. I recognize that everyone and every institution has a light and a dark side.

 

I'm not angry at anyone. I looked for consistency ;)

 

There was only one Church until 1054, so it is reasonable that the coin is made of the same metal. Why one side chose one design and the other side a different one... ? This is seen as the tradition of the RCC continuing on as a living Church.

 

One side chose to stay with the original design. The other chose to make changes in it's design (and has admitted such)

 

They are beautiful, aren't they? I have one next to my Mary statue.

 

It has nothing to do with beauty :) There is a theology to icons.

 

This is incorrect. Please take a moment to read the Humanae Vitae from Vatican II. The RC most certainly takes a mother's health into consideration!

 

I read it and it states exactly the issue I have with the RC. Sterilization is "unlawful". One may only use NFP/FAM (noting the "infertile periods" to prevent, even in cases of illness or other health concerns. The other option would be complete abstinence in marriage. Btw, I've been in plenty of discussion on this topic with RC people. The Humanae Vitae is used often to prove the point that ONLY NFP/FAM is acceptable and that barrier and sterilization are not.

 

Those old guys really knew how to split a hair, didn't they! LOL (there are some scholars working on reconciling that...)

 

]This is one hair that SHOULD be split! I've seen the consequences in doctrines and how people are viewed.

 

Where do you see this? I read lots of things in regards to how the bible and Church tradition relates to current problems in the world (the AIDs crisis, the disintegration of the family, war, etc.), and reassurances THAT God is working and is there to help, but not HOW. This is a sincere question.

 

I've seen it out of theologians that came out of the RC...it's called the Reformation. They brought their habits with them.I used to be one of those armchair theologians and

 

No offense taken.

 

We have lots of people interested in this coin this year (great year for precious metals!) - good information is always good.

 

:D

 

a

 

:D Don't worry, I'm not trying to convince anyone to choose this side or that. I don't believe it's my job to do so ;) But these are my reasons and they do come from AFTER having spent time on a Catholic board and reading both sides. In fact, the first book I bought was The Catholic Way during discussions with Catholic friends. Our Catholic friends were thrilled with our conversion to EO (kinda in a "well, if we can't have you in the RC, the EO is a good choice...and it shows you've come a long way, baby!"). My husband's best friend is strongly RC. He said he would have sponsored us in the EO if they allowed crossovers with the RC.

Edited June 2, 2011 by mommaduck

[Teachin'Mine]

I've never seen the haze around the altar (never even heard of it) but I have this to share...

 

I've been an 'extraordinary' minister of Communion for a few years. For personal reasons I don't want to get into on a public message board, I wanted to step away from that, but once in a while, I was needed and I would go up. One day, I happened to be standing next to the priest, handing out Communion on autopilot (that's part of the reason I wanted to stand back from that position). As I presented the host to a lady, and said "Body of Christ", from behind me came a very distinct, male, "Amen". I jumped, promptly gave the host, turned around, and there was no one there. The priest, unaware of this, continued handing out communion, and I could tell right away that it wasn't his voice at all that I had heard. There was NOBODY who could have been near me at that time.

 

I can tell you that definitely shook me out of automatic mode! I was shaking all through the rest of Communion. Real Presence of Christ, for sure!!!

 

What an awesome experience that must have been!!!

 

Cleo so many of us could use a shaking like that. For years I took Communion for granted and didn't fully understand or appreciate the precious gift.

[Parrothead]

I'm aware of this. However, whenever I've called him the Bishop of Rome (as we view him and as he is) it seems to make some RC people a bit irate. So I was being polite ;)

Wow! The 70s really did no good for the Church.

[simka2]

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with you: The American RC can be... interesting. The American RCC (as a whole) really went astray in my opinion. It is slowly being reeled back in. Kicking and screaming. (again, IMO)

 

 

 

 

We have lots of people interested in this coin this year (great year for precious metals!) - good information is always good.

 

 

a

 

The above would be a very interesting discussion. What exactly happened in the American RC Church back in the 70's?

[imagine.more]

The above would be a very interesting discussion. What exactly happened in the American RC Church back in the 70's?

 

Okay, I'm new to posting though I've been lurking on WTM boards a lot these past few months, so I have no idea how to properly quote people, lol! Sorry!

 

Anyway, I think a lot of people would say Vatican II happened (1965 I think), but from what I can tell it was just one part of it, there were lots of reasons the catechism stopped being taught to kids. As a former teacher a lot of the modern educational theory can explain the poor catechesis of the generations of Catholics since 1970-ish. Those same modern educational techniques (pushing little kids to be creative, a fear of making them memorize prayers or catechism or bible verses), made their way into the Catholic church's education programs. When I was in CCD/PSR elementary school years we heard a few cute stories, were given facts orally and never required to write in class, and basically only told that Jesus loves us. Then our poor confirmation teachers got us and realized we didn't even have the Lord's Prayer memorized! So they spent their time drilling us in the basics--prayers, basic catechism stuff, and had no time to do the connecting/understanding level stuff. By the time we were confirmed most of my classmates were bored to tears and begged to stay home from church. They had no idea what the church was about.

 

So now we have a couple generations with crappy catechism education, not a good thing. There are other aspects of American RCC that are problematic but the education of youth is my big issue.

 

As for EO and RC, I am loving this discussion. My DH is Lutheran so I've actually looked into the EO church a bit, since he's a pastor and won't ever convert to RC especially since he couldn't be a pastor there. EO wouldn't have that hang-up. So far though I haven't found any compelling reason to go with the EO church over the RC church, not that the EO church doesn't have much to offer, it really is beautiful and I see a lot of wisdom in its teachings, I just haven't been compelled in that direction.

[oraetstudia]

As for EO and RC, I am loving this discussion. My DH is Lutheran so I've actually looked into the EO church a bit, since he's a pastor and won't ever convert to RC especially since he couldn't be a pastor there. EO wouldn't have that hang-up. So far though I haven't found any compelling reason to go with the EO church over the RC church, not that the EO church doesn't have much to offer, it really is beautiful and I see a lot of wisdom in its teachings, I just haven't been compelled in that direction.

 

Actually under the pastoral provision, he could, as a Lutheran pastor by following through the proper channels, have the potential to become a Catholic priest. One of the priests in our parish is a married, Episcopalian convert with two daughters.

[Avila]

Actually under the pastoral provision, he could, as a Lutheran pastor by following through the proper channels, have the potential to become a Catholic priest. One of the priests in our parish is a married, Episcopalian convert with two daughters.

 

I don't think the pastoral provision applies universally. I think only Anglican/Episcopalians are covered, at least at this time.

[~Kirsten~]

Edited to add the original comment from ThreeBlessingsforme: I was born, baptized, communed, confirmed, and married Catholic. The Roman Catholic church is my home. I've never looked elsewhere and never felt a need to. I know that I'm in the One Holy Apostolic Church that Christ himself started.

 

*contented sigh* That is so lovely. As a convert, I've never had this experience, but I pray my children will.

I'm with Janette on this one. What an awesome experience! My husband is like that, too, though, so there's definitely hope for our children.

 

To answer very briefly, I chose the RCC because my husband is Catholic. I didn't convert when we married, though I did agree to a Catholic wedding and to raising our children Catholic. So when I felt called, it was an easy choice.

 

But I have a very dear friend who converted to EO, and it does intrigue me. I, too, feel such a strong connection between both RC and EO.

 

It seems to me, one of the differences was brought out beautifully by someone earlier (and now I can't remember who)...EO takes people exactly where they are and gradually each person strives to reach higher. The RCC seems, to me, to set a baseline below which you aren't to fall, and then also encourages one to reach higher. For example, it's my understanding that fasting is very individual for the EO--the list of things from which one fasts is quite long, but it's totally okay to start out much smaller and gradually aim to do it all. For the RCC, the list and the times for fasting are much shorter, yet they're mandatory. Then an individual can stretch beyond those minimums. Does that make sense? For my personality, this is a place where the RCC gives me comfort. I'm a black and white kind of person, and this baseline helps me know where to start. I think personality plays a role in which fits better for people, but of course, that's a very small thing to focus on.

 

Personally, I love the fact that for our priests, the Church is his family. I'm thankful they don't marry, and the priests I've spoken with are also thankful. I'm thankful for the Pope and the progression from Peter to our current Benedict. That resonates with me--how the Holy Spirit can continue to work through broken, sinful men to maintain the Church.

 

Honestly, I don't know how RC and EO differ on Original Sin and on the Assumption of Mary. I'll read through the thread to see if anyone else explains that, and if not, I'll be researching because now I'm curious! :D I do know that those things differ greatly from my Baptist/non-denominational upbringing, and I definitely agree with the RCC over that, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. :tongue_smilie:

 

Fascinating thread, and I'll be praying your friends find their way Home, to whichever Church that is.

Edited June 2, 2011 by ~Kirsten~
added original quote above

[milovany]

 

Personally, I love the fact that for our priests, the Church is his family. I'm thankful they don't marry, and the priests I've spoken with are also thankful. I'm thankful for the Pope and the progression from Peter to our current Benedict. That resonates with me--how the Holy Spirit can continue to work through broken, sinful men to maintain the Church.

 

 

Just a comment on this -- our khourias/presvyteras (priest's wives) are SUCH a huge blessing to our parishes. At least all the ones I've known thus far. And I feel like they give our priests a warm, gentle place to rest which is much needed because of the demands of the priest's role. Being a priest is a very difficult thing. They carry a lot of weight. But they're human, too, and need a place to rest like all of us.

 

Honestly, I don't know how RC and EO differ on Original Sin and on the Assumption of Mary. I'll read through the thread to see if anyone else explains that, and if not, I'll be researching because now I'm curious!

 

 

Here's an article about this for you, if you're interested. It describes how the East and the West have a different view of sin.

[Aquinas Academy]

I go to bed and in the morning I wake up to several more pages of responses. You ladies are the best! :)

Anyway, I was raised Catholic in a really bad parish in the 70s. As a young adult, I left the church but still wanted to attend a church. I met my future dh and began attending his mom's church, a small independent fundamentalist church. Dh had been raised Catholic at a much better parish, but his mom had left the Catholic church due to bitterness about many issues.

 

Dh and I loved each other very much and wanted to get married, but I was not going to marry someone who was a different religion. Maybe it was childish, but my parents were different religions and had an unhappy marriage, while my best friend's parents were the same religion and had a very happy marriage. However, dh could not stand the fundy churches (he is very reserved in church!) and only wanted to be Catholic. So, an impasse.

 

By this point he and I had been dating nearly 3 years. We had stopped once but couldn't stay away from each other! I had prayed and prayed and prayed and I know he had also. Then one day I was praying yet again about this issue, just so confused because I felt he was the one but we couldn't resolve this issue. While I was praying, I felt as though Jesus was impressing on me, "The church where you see Me is the one you belong at."

 

Immediately, I thought, "Oh, that's the fundamentalist church! The people are so warm and loving and you can really see Jesus in them..."

 

About a week later, I felt a strong urge to go to a Thursday evening Mass. I hadn't been to Mass in ages. I went to the church and realized that the entire Mass was actually Scripture! Duh, "responsorial psalm" means "from the Book of Psalms" - told you my religious education was bad! Then as the priest began the Consecration, I began seeing smoke around the altar, and at the Elevation, I saw Jesus. I saw His Face in the Host. And I cried. And knew I was home.

 

Very shortly after that, dh asked me to marry him. We had a beautiful Catholic wedding! And I've been making up for my rotten education ever since.

 

I've never seen the haze around the altar (never even heard of it) but I have this to share...

 

I've been an 'extraordinary' minister of Communion for a few years. For personal reasons I don't want to get into on a public message board, I wanted to step away from that, but once in a while, I was needed and I would go up. One day, I happened to be standing next to the priest, handing out Communion on autopilot (that's part of the reason I wanted to stand back from that position). As I presented the host to a lady, and said "Body of Christ", from behind me came a very distinct, male, "Amen". I jumped, promptly gave the host, turned around, and there was no one there. The priest, unaware of this, continued handing out communion, and I could tell right away that it wasn't his voice at all that I had heard. There was NOBODY who could have been near me at that time.

 

I can tell you that definitely shook me out of automatic mode! I was shaking all through the rest of Communion. Real Presence of Christ, for sure!!!

 

Cathmom and Cleo, what amazing stories!

 

 

(Set to the

)

 

Main refrain:

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son!

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son...

And the Son, and the Son, and the Son, Son, Son,

Soooon, and the Son, Son, Son!

 

:lol: That was great! Thanks!

 

EO/RCC, IMO, are two sides of the same coin; East and West. And just as a person one side of the globe may "see" something slightly differently than a person on the other side of the globe, so did the two sides of the EO/RC coin evolve.

 

AFAIK, I have been Catholic for an eternity. From before I was born. I could tell you stories of experiences that would give you goosebumps and make your hair stand on end. My soul is an old, old soul, and it is rooted on the rock of Peter.

 

Who p!ssed off whom in the long line of the history of this particular coin is not my concern, but keeping the data straight is as ingrained in me as is my DNA. I haven't had all of these odd things happen (and scare the cr@p out of me) for nothing. Sometimes I have time for lots of links, sometimes not (like this morning).

 

Asta, you have such a great way of explaining things!

 

 

I'm with Janette on this one. What an awesome experience! My husband is like that, too, though, so there's definitely hope for our children.

 

To answer very briefly, I chose the RCC because my husband is Catholic. I didn't convert when we married, though I did agree to a Catholic wedding and to raising our children Catholic. So when I felt called, it was an easy choice.

 

But I have a very dear friend who converted to EO, and it does intrigue me. I, too, feel such a strong connection between both RC and EO.

...

 

Fascinating thread, and I'll be praying your friends find their way Home, to whichever Church that is.

Kirsten, I could have written exactly the same thing. Your story is so similar to mine. Thank you for the prayers. :)

[mommaduck]

Just a comment on this -- our khourias/presvyteras (priest's wives) are SUCH a huge blessing to our parishes. At least all the ones I've known thus far. And I feel like they give our priests a warm, gentle place to rest which is much needed because of the demands of the priest's role. Being a priest is a very difficult thing. They carry a lot of weight. But they're human, too, and need a place to rest like all of us.

 

 

:iagree: And there is a role for them in relationship to the Church as well.

[WIS0320]

This question may have an extremely obvious answer so I'm sorry if I am just an idiot and not sure how to figure it out on my own!

 

Is there any such thing as just a regular Orthodox church minus any cultural flavor? I just ran a search for Orthodox churches in my area and the two here are Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox.

[asta]

The above would be a very interesting discussion. What exactly happened in the American RC Church back in the 70's?

 

Pope Benedict has been speaking/writing about this very thing recently. In his address to the College of Cardinals this past December:

 

In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than†and a “worse thanâ€. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today.

 

Yeah... that whole "if it feels good, do it" movement that zipped around the world hit the ENTIRE world - churches included. Churches. Not just the Catholics. Lots of denominations ended up in a world of hurt. For that matter, lots of institutions ended up in a world of hurt.

 

I was reading one blogger who completely missed the point and thought the above meant that the Church endorsed paedophilia. So much for critical reading skills.

 

The address at the link is very good, BTW.

 

 

a

[mommaduck]

This question may have an extremely obvious answer so I'm sorry if I am just an idiot and not sure how to figure it out on my own!

 

Is there any such thing as just a regular Orthodox church minus any cultural flavor? I just ran a search for Orthodox churches in my area and the two here are Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox.

 

LOL! You mean an "American" Orthodox Church? Yes. The OCA (Orthodox Church in America)

[milovany]

LOL! You mean an "American" Orthodox Church? Yes. The OCA (Orthodox Church in America)

 

And every parish is different within the different jurisdictions. Even a Greek or Russian church can be very "American." (Do know that even though there are "jurisdictions" all Orthodox churches are Orthodox -- the Greek Orthodox church is in communion with the Russian Orthodox Church which is in communion with the OCA, etc.) Our parish is Antiochian, and in our part of the country, these parishes are typically very "American" in flavor. Our parish is 90% converts from Protestantism and is very welcoming and open to all. Yet, from what I understand, some Antiochian parishes, esp. back east, can be more ethnic.

 

Having said that, I think it's important to also not think of Orthodoxy as foreign and ethnic. It's the Church, which is open to all. (Not to say there aren't instances where ethnicity is made an issue for visitors, just to say Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, and that the cultural variations may have to be worked through if one believes this is the "one holy catholic and apostolic church" and if a more cultural parish is all that's available).

Edited June 2, 2011 by milovaný

[oraetstudia]

I don't think the pastoral provision applies universally. I think only Anglican/Episcopalians are covered, at least at this time.

 

Not so. Anglicans/Episcopalians are the most common, but there have been Lutherans as well. A quick Google search brought up this article and I even found mention of one former married Baptist preacher who became a priest.

[simka2]

In our last chatecisim class we were talking about the different councils throughout church history. Our priest stated that he thought the next council would most likely be to address the issue you are alluding to. Normaly, who ever evangelized a country first became the "Patriarch" of that country. The situation with America developed differently than in many other countries. You had almost a 3 pronged collision of sorts. The Russian church in Alaska was here first, but they started in the west and moved east. Then you had the immigrants in the east bringing their respective cultures churches with them, and finally you had the OCA. So, there is a question of jurisdiction and this brings challenges with it. I realize I may not see unification between the RC and EO in my lifetime, but I think it is possible that I will see America unified under one Patriarcate.

 

 

I need to add that I am still unfamiliar with some terms and details. Those Orthodox wo are more familiar with the details are welcome to add to what I have stated. As a newbie, it has been nice to watch this situation develop.

This question may have an extremely obvious answer so I'm sorry if I am just an idiot and not sure how to figure it out on my own!

 

Is there any such thing as just a regular Orthodox church minus any cultural flavor? I just ran a search for Orthodox churches in my area and the two here are Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox.

[~Kirsten~]

Just a comment on this -- our khourias/presvyteras (priest's wives) are SUCH a huge blessing to our parishes. At least all the ones I've known thus far. And I feel like they give our priests a warm, gentle place to rest which is much needed because of the demands of the priest's role. Being a priest is a very difficult thing. They carry a lot of weight. But they're human, too, and need a place to rest like all of us.

 

Here's an article about this for you, if you're interested. It describes how the East and the West have a different view of sin.

 

Thank you so much for the link! I really appreciate it! I was just sitting down to hunt. :001_smile:

 

And, with everything in this thread, I so appreciate hearing the other side and the differing perspective on the wives of the priests. My only experience comes from my Protestant perspective, and it sounds like a very different world for EO (which is just beautiful and wonderful).