JUST got LOF fractions in the mail

[Twilight Woods]

I am going through it....is this a independent study? Should I just let DD start reading a chapter and work the problems on her own and see how it goes?

[8filltheheart]

Well, I'm going to commit an act of heresy on this board, but I don't think LOF Fractions actually teaches fractions in anyway worth the paper its printed on.

 

If your child knows all of the material in the book, just letting her work through it on her own for fun should be great. But if you are expecting the book to build understanding of fractions, I'm afraid you will be disappointed and your dd might be frustrated. It is purely algorithm in approach. I think it is really awful and one of the worst math books I have ever seen. Sorry.

 

If you bought it for fun factor, though, my dd did enjoy working through it and following the story. She already knew everything in the book though.

[EKS]

Well, I'm going to commit an act of heresy on this board, but I don't think LOF Fractions actually teaches fractions in anyway worth the paper its printed on.

 

If your child knows all of the material in the book, just letting her work through it on her own for fun should be great. But if you are expecting the book to build understanding of fractions, I'm afraid you will be disappointed and your dd might be frustrated. It is purely algorithm in approach. I think it is really awful and one of the worst math books I have ever seen. Sorry.

 

If you bought it for fun factor, though, my dd did enjoy working through it and following the story. She already knew everything in the book though.

 

I have never more strenuously agreed with a post in my life.

[Mommyfaithe]

We use LOF as a fun Friday read...and play. We love Fred here...BUT our mIn learning happens in our regular math text and lessons. Fred has done a wonderful job of solidifying what dd knows and showing me what we need to work more on. I do not assign Fred, nor is it required...it is only if the WANT to use it on Fridays instead of their regular program. They read a few chapters and usually do a bridge every week or 2.

 

I don't think it is useless, but I wouldn't use it as a stand alone program either.

 

Faithe

[Poke Salad Annie]

I found a copy used, so I guess I'm okay with it. It certainly won't be the focus of our work with fractions. I've got several other tricks up my sleeve, so this one will only be for fun. It's a cute book, but absolutely not something to solidify understanding of fractions.

[Twilight Woods]

This would not be are primary program. I was going to use it as another way to explain or look at math. Especially Fractions...she hates fractions.

[cbollin]

If you bought it for fun factor, though, my dd did enjoy working through it and following the story. She already knew everything in the book though.

 

I'll join the "heresy". LOL LOL

 

We used LOF fractions at the end of this year for fun. not sure it helped learn anything about fractions that we hadn't covered. I can't imagine trying to teach from the book.

My daughter enjoyed the story and thought it was funny. It might have helped her have a better visual imagery for radius though. I think it got counted in "reading time" more than math time though.

 

-crystal

[EKS]

This would not be are primary program. I was going to use it as another way to explain or look at math. Especially Fractions...she hates fractions.

 

This is how I was attempting to use it. Unfortunately it doesn't really explain fractions at all.

[Poke Salad Annie]

This is how I was attempting to use it. Unfortunately it doesn't really explain fractions at all.

 

Not at all. Unfortunately, I discovered this after actually spending the time to sit down and read through the whole book. Oh well...

[NittanyJen]

Life of Fred Fractions is an outstanding program, and can be done by the student as a self-guided program. It does not require that the student already need to know fractions.

 

That said, it doesn't work for everyone (as the previous posters point out).

 

The author goes into painstaking detail to explain how and why fractions work, not just "what to do." What makes Fred such a great series above "drill and kill" books is that it will not just show a method and then have the kid blindly apply it-- the student has to really pay attention, take their time, and be willing to apply what they know.

 

The major caveats are: This program is not for a student who has any difficulty with reading, and the program clearly states that the prerequisites are that the student is already solid in addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division-- including long division. If you use the program and those skill are not in place, then you are setting your DC up to fail.

 

The problem sets are awesome, because you cannot just "plug and play." You really have to apply the knowledge and demonstrate understanding of what you are doing-- the author does explain everything you need to know in order to succeed, as long as you don't just read it like a story, but pay attention as you go.

 

My DS10 started LoF fractions in early March and has nearly completed it with no help-- and he is coming out of a horrific public school system, so his math background is not great, beyond what we have taught him to solidify the four basics in arithmetic and other areas of interest (we've read Penrose and The Number Devil and the like).

 

I have tutored kids at the University where my husband is a math professor, from basic remedial algebra up through differential equations, and if the kids I have worked with had been asked to think along the lines that LoF makes them think, they would never have needed me.

 

Let your daughter have fun with it, and don't interfere unless she seems to be just reading it like a story-- make sure she is really doing the problems and not just skimming the answer key :). And hopefully she really has mastered her basics through long division before she starts-- if she has that and can mix math with reading, then she should do very well with the program!

[EKS]

The author goes into painstaking detail to explain how and why fractions work, not just "what to do." What makes Fred such a great series above "drill and kill" books is that it will not just show a method and then have the kid blindly apply it-- the student has to really pay attention, take their time, and be willing to apply what they know.

 

 

 

I just read through the entire thing this week and I can assure anyone reading this that it does *not* go into painstaking detail about *anything*. And it most certainly *does* just show a method and has the kid blindly apply it. I don't think the author ever once explained the reason behind anything. It is truly the worst math book I have used in eight years of homeschooling (and I've used quite a number).

[8filltheheart]

Life of Fred Fractions is an outstanding program, and can be done by the student as a self-guided program. It does not require that the student already need to know fractions.

 

That said, it doesn't work for everyone (as the previous posters point out).

 

The author goes into painstaking detail to explain how and why fractions work, not just "what to do." What makes Fred such a great series above "drill and kill" books is that it will not just show a method and then have the kid blindly apply it-- the student has to really pay attention, take their time, and be willing to apply what they know.

 

The major caveats are: This program is not for a student who has any difficulty with reading, and the program clearly states that the prerequisites are that the student is already solid in addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division-- including long division. If you use the program and those skill are not in place, then you are setting your DC up to fail.

 

The problem sets are awesome, because you cannot just "plug and play." You really have to apply the knowledge and demonstrate understanding of what you are doing-- the author does explain everything you need to know in order to succeed, as long as you don't just read it like a story, but pay attention as you go.

 

My DS10 started LoF fractions in early March and has nearly completed it with no help-- and he is coming out of a horrific public school system, so his math background is not great, beyond what we have taught him to solidify the four basics in arithmetic and other areas of interest (we've read Penrose and The Number Devil and the like).

 

I have tutored kids at the University where my husband is a math professor, from basic remedial algebra up through differential equations, and if the kids I have worked with had been asked to think along the lines that LoF makes them think, they would never have needed me.

 

Let your daughter have fun with it, and don't interfere unless she seems to be just reading it like a story-- make sure she is really doing the problems and not just skimming the answer key :). And hopefully she really has mastered her basics through long division before she starts-- if she has that and can mix math with reading, then she should do very well with the program!

 

Since my 3rd grade dd finished her math book about 9 weeks ago, I purchased LOF Fractions and Decimals for something extra to use for the rest of the yr based on rave reviews about how great they are for building conceptual understanding. After sitting beside my dd as she did the book everyday, I am now realizing that I need to start following my own advice and start ignoring "mass reviews."

 

I know exactly what is in the book b/c I watched her do it. This is my child that needs my physical presence to complete tasks. My opinion isn't even from just reading through the book. It is from her reading the book and working the problems and watching her thought processes as she worked. She is a bright child and she managed fine. But, I also know that it is not b/c of what was in the book, only from her own abilities.

 

The explanation for reducing fractions is "Here's an easy way to reduce a fraction w/o having to draw a lot of pictures): You can divide the top and the bottom of a fraction by the same number: If I start with 2/8 and I divide the top and the bottom by 2, I get 1/4."

 

I have problems with that explanation on several levels. First, I don't like not using correct terminology. Second, why do you divide both the numerator and the denominator by the same number and get different fractions that are equivalent? There is absolutely no discussion about why, no explanation that 2/2 equals 1 and that any number divided by 1 equals itself. (same goes for the his explanation about multiplying both numerator and denominator. To his defense, he does eventually introduce the terms numerator and denominator.)

 

I would not want my child's foundational understanding to be based on the teaching in LOF. As an interesting supplement to get them thinking about review information in an entertaining way, yes, I see it as something that would appeal to a lot of kids and it does what it sets out to achieve. But, I would never use that approach to teach.

 

I think it is a poor attempt perhaps to teach via discovery method, but it does not reach the quality that I expect from a math program.

[EKS]

I know exactly what is in the book b/c I watched her do it. This is my child that needs my physical presence to complete tasks. My opinion isn't even from just reading through the book. It is from her reading the book and working the problems and watching her thought processes as she worked. She is a bright child and she managed fine. But, I also know that it is not b/c of what was in the book, only from her own abilities.

 

This is exactly what we are doing as well. In fact, I am reading the book to my son and watching him do the problems. He has learned nothing new from LoF, and if he hadn't known everything before we started, he would be totally lost as the explanations are beyond inadequate.

 

The explanation for reducing fractions is "Here's an easy way to reduce a fraction w/o having to draw a lot of pictures): You can divide the top and the bottom of a fraction by the same number: If I start with 2/8 and I divide the top and the bottom by 2, I get 1/4."

 

Here are a few more:

 

The explanation for adding fractions with unlike denominators is equally bad. He explains it in the solutions section for one of the Your Turn to Play problem sets: "1/4 and 1/8 have different denominators. The first step is to make the denominators the same."

 

Another on how to multiply fractions: "It's much easier than adding fractions. Just look at this example and you will know how to do it. 5/8 x 3/7 = 15/56"

 

Another on why you can't divide by zero: "Division by zero doesn't make sense."

 

The above are the extent of the explanations about these topics.

[Matryoshka]

This would not be are primary program. I was going to use it as another way to explain or look at math. Especially Fractions...she hates fractions.

 

I use LOF for review over the summer. I don't think it would work for my kids as a first-time introduction to a concept. Well, I think my dds did encounter dividing by fractions for the first time there, but we covered it again with their regular curriculum.

[nmoira]

I don't have my books available to address the other points, but I've posted about this particular one before:

 

Another on why you can't divide by zero: "Division by zero doesn't make sense."

This is not quite the case. Here is the entire sequence:

 

There's a story about Fred, then a series of questions.

 

 

 

The first asks the child to solve: 0 x ? = 14. [Of course they can't.]

 

 

 

Then:

 

 

 

How many 3's do you add up to get 21?

 

 

 

How do you write "How many 3's do you have to add up to get 21?" as a fraction?

 

 

 

Using the above question as an example, express 20/5 as a question.

 

 

 

Express 6/1 as a question.

 

 

 

Express 14/0 as a question.

 

[EKS]

I don't have my books available to address the other points, but I've posted about this particular one before:

 

This is not quite the case. Here is the entire sequence:

 

There's a story about Fred, then a series of questions.

 

 

 

The first asks the child to solve: 0 x ? = 14. [Of course they can't.]

 

 

 

Then:

 

 

 

How many 3's do you add up to get 21?

 

 

 

How do you write "How many 3's do you have to add up to get 21?" as a fraction?

 

 

 

Using the above question as an example, express 20/5 as a question.

 

 

 

Express 6/1 as a question.

 

 

 

Express 14/0 as a question.

 

 

You're right--I forgot about this. Though I have to say, that I *do* have the book right here and am finding it impossible to locate this exchange. Which brings me to another of my complaints: the format and the lack of a decent index make it difficult to find things.

[nmoira]

You're right--I forgot about this. Though I have to say, that I *do* have the book right here and am finding it impossible to locate this exchange. Which brings me to another of my complaints: the format and the lack of a decent index make it difficult to find things.

True, though the high school books are sequenced more like traditional texts and have better quality indexes. My biggest beef with the pre-pre-algebra LOF books is the relative lack of attention paid to ratio and proportion; LOF: Ratios would have stood well with Fractions and Decimals & Percents.

[8filltheheart]

Like I said, it is a poor attempt at discovery learning. The best discovery learning system is one that guides the student and THEN teaches the student. If the student doesn't need the teaching and discovered it through the guided exercises, fabulous, the goal is achieved. If not, the teaching is there to make sure the student learns the skills necessary.

 

Discovery methodology that simply provides questions w/o adequate follow-up is discussion is a very weak approach. That is the category I see LOF falling into.

[Mommyfaithe]

Like I said, it is a poor attempt at discovery learning. The best discovery learning system is one that guides the student and THEN teaches the student. If the student doesn't need the teaching and discovered it through the guided exercises, fabulous, the goal is achieved. If not, the teaching is there to make sure the student learns the skills necessary.

 

Discovery methodology that simply provides questions w/o adequate follow-up is discussion is a very weak approach. That is the category I see LOF falling into.

 

This is what frustrates me about discovery math....or discovery History...or discovery Lit....or discovery Science.

:D

 

I like programs that make my kids THINK....but I want them to THINK correctly...and come to correct conclusions.....admittedly much more difficult in history or literature...or even science than math....but still.

 

I like them to DISCoVER...but I want them to also be taught how to rightly come to the correct conclusions. To think in terms of truth and fact. To just leave things in the discovery camp is silly and waste of time at best....and dangerous and foolhardy at worst.

 

There needs to be both discovery...and then teaching and guiding to conclusions that are accurate.

 

Thanks 8 for pointing this out about LOF. I still really love, love, love these books.....but I use them with my math resistant kids who use them as review on topics we have covered ad nauseum...for all of us.....In this respect, they are wonderful and fun. I have the whole set! But as a stand alone, do alone program....nope. It just wouldn't work for us.

 

Faithe