Chalk Dust, Video Text, or Harold Jacobs Algebra?

[JenniferB]

Does anyone have experience with all three of these? If so, can you give me your analysis and opinions? Video Text claims to cover Pre, Alg 1, and Alg 2 in one course, which seems intriguing. But, I also found the Chalk Dust equivalents on Amazon based on another thread with ISBN #s, so it's cheaper, which is also intriguing. Harold Jacobs dialectic style of writing also seems intriguing, and I found DVDs to support that one by Dr. Callahan, here. I need help deciding what to order for next year. We'll be finishing up Pre-Algebra this year, and moving onto either Algebra I, probably, or I was considering another year of Pre-Algebra for more reinforcement before Algebra I. Decisions, decisions.

[JenniferB]

bump

[MorningGlory]

Jennifer, I read your post this morning, but I didn't answer because I don't have direct experience with all three programs. But I'll give you a bump.

 

My ds recently completed Algebra I using Jacobs. We LOVED it! I didn't use the dvds...just taught it myself. We loved the real-life problems and puzzles and funny examples. I thought the text had a perfect amount of problems (my ds completed Set I, II, and IV for each lesson). I also liked how the problems built on each other...they were a lesson within themselves. Jacobs starts off kind of slowly so I think that might suffice for a pre-algebra review. My ds started Jacobs geometry last week...it seems to be just as well-written.

 

I looked at Videotext at one point. I didn't like the thought of not having a textbook in hand. That is a just personal preference. I've also carefully looked at Chalkdust and intend to use it down the road. And that is the reason I didn't select it for Algebra I! I didn't want my son to tire of that teacher and that format for math.

 

Hopefully someone with direct experience with all three programs will speak up!

Jetta

 

ETA: WooHoo! I finally hit my 100th post. Three years of mostly lurking...

Edited April 21, 2011 by MorningGlory
a celebration

[Jillinan]

I just posted this on the high school board and you might find it helpful:

 

My mathy 7th grade son just finished Chalkdust. My wordy 8th grade daughter is still slogging through Jacobs. We didn't use the dvd's for chalkdust because "they are too long and boring." I would go over the material with him and he would do the assignments. Chalkdust moves quickly, tackles multiple topics in one section, and presents more difficult problems than Jacobs. For my math challenged daughter, this would have brought her to tears every day. That's why I chose Jacobs for her. She worked one chapter in Chalkdust on simultaneous equations (or systems of equations in Chalkdust) because I didn't care for the way Jacobs presented it. She had a hard time making the adjustment for just one chapter. Now, ymmv, but she was glad to get back to Jacobs (remember she's not mathy.)

 

They just completed our state's standardized testing and they both tested advanced in math. Son was off the charts, daughter was comfortably advanced (this was a huge milestone for her because she has always tested proficient.) Does this mean anything? I don't know for sure, but I think you'll be fine with either. I figured out which worked best for my kids and stuck with it.

[JenniferB]

hmmm, lots to think about. In Pre-Algebra she doesn't seem to understand why we have to get "x" all by itself. I've explained it umteen times, but it's like her eyes glaze over and it doesn't sink in that we're solving for "x" so, we have to get "x" by itself. She hates manipulatives and stuff like that, she just wants to know why and then work the problems quickly to get it over with.

[Capt_Uhura]

how are you explaining it? Just curious. I can't really think of too many ways to explain that. What do you want to know? 4x+12? 4x? No, you want to know what x is which translates to x=. If I say 1/4 of 12 is that translates to 1/4x12=. So if I want to know what x is that translates to x=, not 4x or 4x+12 but x.

 

I'm reading AoPS so I'll have to see how he explains it. I also have Foester's and will check to see how it is explained in that text as well.

[Trish]

I have both Thinkwell and Jacobs, but haven't used either yet!

[JenniferB]

For example one of today's questions was. 5/400 = x/2200. First we reduced the 5/400 to 1/80. Then I was like, "We have to get 'x' all by itself." She was like "huh?" I can't figure out how to explain this, because it's obvious to me. I can't understand how it's not obvious. :( boo-hoo. Anyway, her brain works way different than mine, so I can't figure out how to explain it. I was thinking that next year I would use a video curriculum because maybe they will explain it better. Just reading the book and my poor job of explaining isn't working too well. But, it's just Pre-Algebra, so I'm not too worried yet. I just want to make sure to get a really good program for next year since it's just going to get harder.

[Blueridge]

You need to get x all by itself because x is the unknown you are looking for. It's easier to find something you are looking for when you've eliminated everything else...like all the pieces of hay you move to a new pile so you can find the needle. :)

[trailofsparks]

For example one of today's questions was. 5/400 = x/2200. First we reduced the 5/400 to 1/80. Then I was like, "We have to get 'x' all by itself." She was like "huh?" I can't figure out how to explain this, because it's obvious to me. I can't understand how it's not obvious. :( boo-hoo. Anyway, her brain works way different than mine, so I can't figure out how to explain it. I was thinking that next year I would use a video curriculum because maybe they will explain it better. Just reading the book and my poor job of explaining isn't working too well. But, it's just Pre-Algebra, so I'm not too worried yet. I just want to make sure to get a really good program for next year since it's just going to get harder.

 

Which math program(s) have you used to date? I'm thinking if you post what worked with your dd up to this point, someone may be able to recommend a higher math that teaches similar. Ie: I use RightStart, and RS recommends VT, so that's what we're planning to use next year w/ds12 - b/c they teach similar w/focus on concepts. HTH

[JenniferB]

For the last 3 years we've used K12. The 4th and 5th texts were Sadlier-Oxford, and the 6th grade text is McDougal Littell (Dolciani) Mathematics Structure and Method Course 1. She's doing OK with these. I could keep on the same path and do Dolciani, but I'm just thinking if someone else explains it she might do better. She resists my explanations and wants to figure it out for herself, even if it takes a half hour longer. So, I'm wondering if a video (DVD or internet) course w/ books would be better than just books, like we're doing now.

[Janice in NJ]

You mentioned that you aren't sure how to explain certain concepts. Because of that, I would strongly recommend a video program - but not Video Text (see below). With a real DVD instructor, the teacher will explain everything to your daughter; you can learn along with her.

 

For your situation, I would also recommend Chalkdust. IF you purchase directly from the company, I believe you are eligible for help via email or phone when your daughter gets stuck. You may be able to purchase that extra help if you buy the program used. One of the toughest things to deal with in mathematics is "getting stuck." Sometimes you just need a person to help you move forward. Because of that, I would strongly recommend that you learn along with your daughter. It is just so hard to get "unstuck" in math without a PERSON to help you. Face to face is just the best thing. Apart from that, email or phone will work. Staring at a solution manual can work. But sometimes kids get so confused that they don't even know where to start.

 

I think Video Text moves too quickly. Period. I think kids need more practice than the program provides. I have heard Mr. Clark's sales pitch. I think he is wrong. Period. I think successful mathematics curriculum spirals through the material. (I have not used this program. I listened to the pitch and read through the materials at his booth and walked away bewildered.) I don't know of any other subject where my kids have mastered the material by working through it once. Not reading. Not spelling. Handwriting, grammar, composition, poetry, languages, history, science, philosophy, cleaning their ROOMS. LOL VT moves from Pre-Algebra through Precalculus by working through each topic one time as listed:

 

http://www.videotext.com/VideoText%20Interactive/Shaded%20Algebra%20Schematic%20-%20Adobe%20PDF%20-%2010-05-05.pdf

 

I think kids need more practice than that. Like elementary arithmetic, my kids learn best when you spiral through mathematics. Covering high school math like this would be like opening the 7th grade arithmetic book and starting at the beginning and working through it one time. There. Done. Really? Not at my house. We start in kindergarten, and we build understanding in arithmetic. It's hard work. But like everything they have learned, my kids learn in layers. AND that process of learning builds intelligence. Even the process has value! :001_smile:

 

And VT assumes that you are the instructor - not the program. "Please understand that it is not the intent of the program to let the VideoText lesson take the place of instruction. Actually, the video should never tell your student anything that hasn't been considered or discussed (while the DVD is paused), and it should never answer questions that have not already been resolved." Read more here:

http://www.videotext.com/algebra.htm

 

Jacob's text for algebra has been around for a while. It doesn't integrate the graphing calculator. An important skill in 2011. It just is. (My oldest used Jacobs; we had to play catch-up with the technology.) The other problem is the sequence. Jacob's geometry is a good text, but then it's difficult to choose the next step. Lots of different opinions about where to go after Jacob's geometry. So once you choose, you'll have to choose again.

 

I have settled on Chalkdust as our main program. I love math. I would love to teach math - everyday to every child. NOT possible; I do not have the time. Dana Mosely teaches the concepts well. He is neat, systematic, and careful. He is thorough in his explanations; he uses correct terminology. His pacing is great - he focuses on the things he should and minimizes the extras. Solid. Solid. Solid. After my kids work through the lectures with him, I assign problems. (My kids take notes while watching. Everything he writes, I require them to write in their notebook. When they take mathematics at the university, they will have to take notes while watching the board. Another good skill.) Then we choose problems. This is where I spend my time. I like to work with them as they begin - to check their understanding of the lecture. Then I check in after they complete the problems to clear up their thinking. I like the books - lots of practice with plenty of word problems. Mid-chapter quizzes (in some books). Review. And a test. Done. Good coverage of the topics. And many universities use the Larson texts for Calculus. Another benefit.

 

I will offer up one caution: We spend at least 75 minutes a day on algebra II. Geometry gets 90 minutes. Precalculus also gets 90 minutes. (I actually cover Algebra I from the middle of 6th grade until the end of 8th grade using a ton of different materials. So I have not personally used the Chalk Dust Algebra I program. BUT I have used Geo, Alg II, PreCalc, and Calc DVD's. Excellent.)

 

My oldest did not use this sequence all the way through. We bounced around a lot while I tried to find the perfect program. No more! This program is pricey, but it has everything I need.

 

1. The man in the blinking box has the time to TEACH the concepts well - he's not under a time crunch to DO something else. And he does what I would do if I had the time to prepare each lesson.

 

2. The books are paced well. Good introduction of topics from year to year. The videos teach the student to use the graphing calculator well. And the program recognizes that the calculator is a tool for problem solving, not a substitute for understanding.

 

3. The book provides a great mix of problems. PLENTY to choose from.

 

Of the three you listed, I would recommend Chalkdust. And I would work through the material with your oldest as much as you can. Your understanding of high school mathematics will be a GREAT benefit as you home school all of your kids. It's such a big piece. (And it REALLY is easier the second time around. I think you'll be surprised!) I would take the time to do it well with your oldest, and you will have overcome a hurdle that stumps a lot of families and causes a lot of regrets.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Edited April 23, 2011 by Janice in NJ

[monk17]

Thank you for writing such a thoughtful reply with evidence to back up your opinion and experience! I'm struggling with the same questions as the poster.

 

Mike

[Janice in NJ]

Hi Mike,

 

You're welcome. I'm glad it helped.

 

Have fun carving out your path.

 

Peace,

Janice

[JenniferB]

Janice, Thank you. You have helped me with your detailed explanation. I appreciate it very much. I was about to choose Video Text because the lady on the phone says that showing the problems without the instructor was better than the instructor. I can't remember why that is - I think because she said the instructor was distracting, maybe? I think you are right about the layers and the spiriling. My daughter did not do well with the uber mastery approach to any subject, especially math. It wasn't until we started using K12, which is more spirally that she started moving forward at a normal pace. She's about 1/2 year behind, even though I started early with her, because we wasted so much time on the uber mastery of addition. If she just would have learned a little subtraction along with her addition, I think it would have come quicker. Then, I was told, "don't move onto subtraction until those addition tables are completely mastered." Eek! We took a year and a half or more probably on addition, and they still weren't "totally mastered." I rebelled and moved on anyway. Once she got to doing subtraction her addition retention came quickly. Then, when we moved to K12 she did much better each time it got harder. She hadn't "totally mastered" the previous material, but once the next lesson went a little deeper, then she got the previous one, like "ah ha" came once the harder material was presented. Thanks for all your advice. I will take it and use it! :)

[Tohru]

Not to throw a wrench in your decision, but we use VT and it works for us. We actually bought it from a good friend who used VT with her son. He went back to public school and took honors level courses. His comprehension of their math was great after a VT background.

 

My son is currently working through VT and he is doing well.

It explains a concept and he does a few problems, if he gets it, he moves on to the next lesson. There isn't a reason to dwell and do all the practice problems because the concept gets practiced over and over again throughout the next lessons. Skills build upon themselves.

 

We tried Jacob's and he didn't like it, didn't understand, etc. We also tried TT, but he hated the voice on the disk - very nasally.

 

Whichever you chose, just try and stick with it for awhile. A lot of programs are taught somewhat differently, with different approaches and philosophies. Switching gets confusing if mastery hasn't been met first.

[LindaG]

Does anyone have experience with all three of these? If so, can you give me your analysis and opinions? Video Text claims to cover Pre, Alg 1, and Alg 2 in one course, which seems intriguing. But, I also found the Chalk Dust equivalents on Amazon based on another thread with ISBN #s, so it's cheaper, which is also intriguing. Harold Jacobs dialectic style of writing also seems intriguing, and I found DVDs to support that one by Dr. Callahan, here. I need help deciding what to order for next year. We'll be finishing up Pre-Algebra this year, and moving onto either Algebra I, probably, or I was considering another year of Pre-Algebra for more reinforcement before Algebra I. Decisions, decisions.

 

JACOBS 2nd edition is the best. Our oldest hated Saxon and so did I.

good luck!

[RootAnn]

Like elementary arithmetic, my kids learn best when you spiral through mathematics.

 

Jacob's text for algebra has been around for a while. It doesn't integrate the graphing calculator. An important skill in 2011. It just is. (My oldest used Jacobs; we had to play catch-up with the technology.) The other problem is the sequence. Jacob's geometry is a good text, but then it's difficult to choose the next step. Lots of different opinions about where to go after Jacob's geometry. So once you choose, you'll have to choose again.

 

I have settled on Chalkdust as our main program. I love math. I would love to teach math - everyday to every child. NOT possible; I do not have the time.

 

This post was extremely helpful to me. I had already ruled VT out, but knowing now that it is not a spiral program, I will definitely not use it. My kids (so far) need spiral over mastery-based methods.

 

I had tentatively chosen Chalkdust, but I might have to get Jacobs and start there for Algebra instead. I definitely don't want to introduce a graphing calculator for Algebra or Geometry. So, it is great to note Jacobs won't be doing that. (My) Kids can pick up technology later & quick (IMO). [i base this one the fact that my DH & I are both engineers by schooling. Both of us survived college without owning a graphing calculator despite the fact that almost every other kid had one. Both of us believe we had a better understanding of the fundamentals, the 'reality check,' and were the stronger for it. Your mileage may vary.]

 

I still have a couple of years to decide, but this was a very informative post!

[swimmermom3]

Jennifer, what do you need as a teacher? I have found that it is helpful to consider not only how your student learns, but how you teach. How much support do you need? I have studied through calculus, but am not well-grounded enough in math that I can work from a text with no answers or only the odd. I like solutions manuals and teacher's editions that give me alternate ideas on how to approach a topic. They help me to be a better teacher. Using a program like Foerster's Algebra has actually ignited a true joy in working and learning along side my son. Jann would probably be able to best tell you what would work for you. Just a thought. Good luck with your decision. There are many good programs to choose from; it is much more difficult when you get to geometry.:tongue_smilie:

[Janice in NJ]

Hi! :001_smile:

 

I have an engineering degree as well.

 

I said "No!" to the calculator for my oldest for algebra as well. As you mentioned, I reflected on my own experience and decided that not only was unnecessary, I thought it would make my kids "soft."

 

After further research, I changed my mind. Mathematics has changed since I was in college - as has engineering. :001_smile: Once a child learns how to work the math, computers and calculators are used to model multiple scenarios to foster critical thinking. (We just didn't have the time to do allllllll that math so we were limited to fewer examples. The economy of the situation.)

 

A good program, like Chalkdust, doesn't use the calculator to replace pencil and paper. Calc use is actually very sparse. But when it is used, it reinforces what the child knows. Generate a function. Graph it on paper. What would happen if? Predict. Check your answer with the calculator. Ok. Good. Now what would you have to do to the function to get it to do this......? Punch it in. Were you right? Why or why not?

 

Yes, it's one more thing to learn. And yes, it takes time. But the luddite in me had to admit that I was wrong. IMO Chalkdust introduces the technology in a way that reinforces the math and fosters critical thinking. And that little machine is one more tool that is available for the ACT/SAT tests. My kids used it VERY infrequently, but when it gave them an advantage, they take the time to turn it on. :001_smile:

 

Just some more info about our family. And of course, I respect your choice not to use a calculator. I have bumped into kids in my travels who can't do simple arithmetic. :confused: Mathematics will never be beautiful if the child never learns the phonics of the language.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey