HOD, Trail Guide, LBC, AO... (insert primal scream here - also very long post)

[Heather in VA]

Since I have a rising junior and a rising 7th grader, you'd think I'd be worried about jr. high and high school. But no - those plans are great. It's my rising 3rd grader. It's not that I don't like what we've been doing. It's good. I just feel like we've gone very 'schooly' because her sisters are so much older and school is schooly at that age. So I'd like to take some time to enjoy, do more dictation/copywork, have integrated lessons etc. She is also ADHD so I find that moving from subject to subject often causes me to loose her attention sometimes to the point of not getting it back. I've been doing my own integrated approach for about a month now and it's going very well as far as this being the right approach for her but doing it myself is killing me. I'm just too busy for this. So I'm looking for other options. Math is separate no matter what I pick and I plan to continue with VP self-paced history. It's wonderful and she loves it. But that doesn't mean we can't do more history or that it has to line up with VP. It doesn't. She already reads history stuff from a variety of time periods and isn't fazed. It also means that it doesn't have to be deep history. VP is giving her deep, chronological history. The retention is amazing.

 

So here are my choices from what I can see: Ambleside, Living Books, Trail Guide to Learning and Heart of Dakota. I have done the pros and cons list below but I need outside counsel. I'm losing my mind here. HELP!!

 

(oh and I am aware that our love for science makes science just 'ok' in most of these curriculums but I'd love one where the science is decent enough that if that week I don't get to any additional science then no problem but it doesn't have to be fantastic)

 

Thanks to everyone who read this :-)

 

Options:

 

LBC:

Pros:

Love Intermediate Language Lessons

Excellent books

Some older books without being archaic

 

Cons:

Only some copywork and dictation pre-chosen

Science is not the greatest – but not bad

Map work not very explicit

Grammar lessons separate (although I love ILL)

HOD:

Pros:

Eggleston books my favorite of all the programs

Very spelled out

Copywork and dictation chosen for you

Activites seem doable without overwhelming

Cons:

Grammar lessons separate from copywork/dictation

Not a huge fan of R&S

Almost too much Bible/Christian focus.

Science only ok – but again not bad

AO:

Pros:

Very high quality literature

Can adjust for skill level

Cons:

Nothing is scheduled for you

Really dislike science that way

Some of the books too archaic

 

Trail Guide:

Pros:

Integrated Language Arts

Excellent geography

Science pretty good

Easy to use guide with everything mapped out

Cons:

Book choice isn’t as classic

It’s so integrated that if you don’t like a book you are in deep do-do

History moves very slowly

Seems time consuming and I want time for other literature

[Pata]

Between those you've suggested, I would probably lean towards AO (I haven't used any of the ones you suggested, but have researched them to death :)). Just an FYI, AO has several yahoo groups with helps for implementing the curricula. One has schedules you can use and another has copywork/dictation passages you can use, makes it a lot easier!

[Heather in VA]

Between those you've suggested, I would probably lean towards AO (I haven't used any of the ones you suggested, but have researched them to death :)). Just an FYI, AO has several yahoo groups with helps for implementing the curricula. One has schedules you can use and another has copywork/dictation passages you can use, makes it a lot easier!

 

Thanks - I'll check those out. I didn't realize there was a copywork group. That could help alot.

 

Heather

[mommyagain]

If you like AO, maybe you would like Higher Up and Further In . It adds some more modern books.

 

Or how about using LBC and adding Map Trek for mapping?

 

Or have you ever looked at Epi Kardia? If you use the Daily Lesson Plans everything is scheduled for you and the LA is fully integrated with what you are reading.

 

I feel your pain. I like everything you've listed also. And a few more!:)

[Heather in VA]

If you like AO, maybe you would like Higher Up and Further In . It adds some more modern books.

 

Or how about using LBC and adding Map Trek for mapping?

 

Or have you ever looked at Epi Kardia? If you use the Daily Lesson Plans everything is scheduled for you and the LA is fully integrated with what you are reading.

 

I feel your pain. I like everything you've listed also. And a few more!:)

 

Thanks. I haven't heard of either one of these. I'll check those out as well. One of the things I dislike about the AO-type programs is that the science is just not for us but the more I think about it the less that matters because we are currently doing Elemental Science and my daughter loves it so she'd be crabby if we didn't continue that so whatever I choose we'll either be replacing the science with ES or adding ES to it.

 

Heather

[mommyagain]

I understand! I love CM and I like nature studies but I think there should be more to science than JUST nature studies!

[Amy in KS]

Have you looked at Easy Classical?

[woolybear]

There's also Milestones Academy and Mater Amabilis, which both look good. I have used Milestones partially this year and liked it. However, I am heavily leaning towards Living Books Curriculum or Trail Guide to Learning: Paths of Exploration. So, really I have no answer for you. Whenever I think I know, I don't.:D

 

 

http://www.milestonesacademy.com/Site/Welcome.html

 

http://materamabilis.org/ma/

[Heather in VA]

Whenever I think I know, I don't.:D

 

 

 

:lol: This is me too. Right now Paths of Settlement is ahead but I bet I'll wake up tomorrow with another idea.

 

Heather

[Heather in VA]

There's also Milestones Academy and Mater Amabilis, which both look good. I have used Milestones partially this year and liked it. However, I am heavily leaning towards Living Books Curriculum or Trail Guide to Learning: Paths of Exploration. So, really I have no answer for you. Whenever I think I know, I don't.:D

 

 

http://www.milestonesacademy.com/Site/Welcome.html

 

http://materamabilis.org/ma/

 

And I just wanted to say I love your blog. It looks like you guys have a great time. Are you doing Tapestry of Grace right now? Sounds like you are looking to switch. I'm checking out Milestones. It seems to be for LDS families. I'm not LDS so I'm not sure if that's a problem. Are you LDS or is it not an issue?

 

Heather

[Guest mrsajoy]

We unschooled for Kindergarten, and that went well, but I'm really feeling the need to have more structure for first grade. But, I want it to be really, really gentle.

 

I WAS going to us AO, but I need more hands on then just reading, drawing, and narrating. The plus side to that one was it's free:) I've never heard of Epi Kardia, but I'm really really liking it, but the downside to that one is, the price:( It's a total of $420, and you don't even get the books that you are reading from. Has anyone here used this one? I'm really wanting as cheap as possible.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Those are some really great options. I don't have a suggestion, I'm just here empathizing with you. Both LBC and HoD have my heart but I couldn't even make my own decision for next year - I had to hand it over to DH before the anguish did me in.

[3lilreds in NC]

I am right there with you. I have been using LBC, but I do not thnk we will continue with it. I do not do well with remembering to choose my own copy work and dictation. Also, I am finding their US history to be hard to follow; there doesn't seem to be a spine. No one likes the Synge books for world history, either.

 

I keep looking at AO. I think that would be the least expensive way for us to go at this point. We are going to do FLL/WWE for LA, so that doesn't bother me. I had forgotten about Higher Up& Further In so I may have to check that out again, but I'm leaning toward MFW RtR actually. That fits best, so far, with where we are in history right now. If we were to do AO, we would do the pre year 3 schedule. I have been thinking today that I might try it over the summer, see what we think, and go from there.

 

ETA: there is a yahoo group with lots of AO schedules.

Edited April 15, 2011 by 3lilreds in NC

[Kfamily]

I really like Ambleside Online but it does have some flaws. To me, one of its strengths is that it is so adaptable. You could pick and choose what you like, create a schedule and then you are set to go. There is a blank schedule form that I like to print out and write in my own schedule. It is more work though...:lol:

We really like Intermediate Language Lessons too!

Edited April 15, 2011 by Kfamily

[twoxcell]

I would pick HOD, but I'm biased :lol:! We love HOD!

[woolybear]

And I just wanted to say I love your blog. It looks like you guys have a great time. Are you doing Tapestry of Grace right now? Sounds like you are looking to switch. I'm checking out Milestones. It seems to be for LDS families. I'm not LDS so I'm not sure if that's a problem. Are you LDS or is it not an issue?

 

Heather

 

Thank you about the blog. It is sadly neglected of late and we haven't been having so much fun. I think winter just got too L....O.....N....G. I am only very lightly using TOG (as in, very lightly using it as a booklist:D---and actually, that may be an exageration).

 

I think I need something all printed out and laid out for me next year, maybe. Milestones is LDS, but I find it does not matter at all. It is easy to leave the LDS content out and if you feel the need to substitute. The only place I would see that being necessary would be with language arts. Otherwise, I just skip the bible/religious aspects.

[woolybear]

I am right there with you. I have been using LBC, but I do not thnk we will continue with it. I do not do well with remembering to choose my own copy work and dictation. Also, I am finding their US history to be hard to follow; there doesn't seem to be a spine. No one likes the Synge books for world history, either.

 

 

 

 

Oh, Beth, tell me it's not so. :D

[Heidi]

I was looking for something that does a little more handholding than AO, but decided against it. I looked up the reviews of the books in AO year 2 last night and I'm soooooo excited to get started on it. So many of the books sound too good to miss. We LOVED AO year 1 books (most of them). AO just has awesome books. I've looked at Milestones, LBC, Higher up, and while they're good adaptions of AO, they leave out some of the best books, imo.

 

You have history and science already, so I wouldn't worry about choosing a curric. that has MORE history and science. I will do a separate history and science next year and just use AO as a booklist, plus their poetry and artist & composer study. Copywork comes from whatever they're reading. It's easy to pick out good, worthwhile copywork out of books that are good and worthwhile reads.

Notebooking will come from science and history books. Narration from my family RA's (I pick the difficult books from AO for RA's)

We're doing PR for LA.

[Heather in VA]

I would pick HOD, but I'm biased :lol:! We love HOD!

 

Well be biased!! That's great. Tell me why you love it. Tell me what you'd change if you could.

 

Heather

[Evergreen Academy]

I am looking at some of the same curriculums, as I try to make a decision for next year. I LOVE ILL and PLL and I love AO and all the CM concepts, but it is a matter of how to make it all work here with my different learners. AO is wonderful, and two of my learners could handle it with no problem. However, I have two ADD learners, one more severe than the other, and one of those has auditory processing issues. While the AO concept of short lessons is perfect for an ADD learner, the older language and complicated sentence structure has proven difficult for them, my littlest one especially. They would happily sit and listen to the stories, but because narration is an integral part of CM education, asking for narrations after every reading let me see just how much they were missing.

 

I wrote to a CM Special Needs message group and someone there put well what I had been sensing: Charlotte Mason chose the books used in AO at a time when that language was contemporary to the children. Some of our children (and this may not be yours) struggle with modern language, so this is a double challenge for them. Several moms on that list suggested HOD, and said it had been a Godsend for them and their families. So that is going higher on my list of possibilities for next year. I would greatly mourn the loss of PLL and ILL as they have been lovely during our years of homeschooling, but if narration, dictation, poetry and copywork are scheduled, perhaps I won't miss them as much as I think I would.

 

Good luck with your decision!

Blessings,

Aimee

Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20

Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

[Heather in VA]

I am looking at some of the same curriculums, as I try to make a decision for next year. I LOVE ILL and PLL and I love AO and all the CM concepts, but it is a matter of how to make it all work here with my different learners. AO is wonderful, and two of my learners could handle it with no problem. However, I have two ADD learners, one more severe than the other, and one of those has auditory processing issues. While the AO concept of short lessons is perfect for an ADD learner, the older language and complicated sentence structure has proven difficult for them, my littlest one especially. They would happily sit and listen to the stories, but because narration is an integral part of CM education, asking for narrations after every reading let me see just how much they were missing.

 

I wrote to a CM Special Needs message group and someone there put well what I had been sensing: Charlotte Mason chose the books used in AO at a time when that language was contemporary to the children. Some of our children (and this may not be yours) struggle with modern language, so this is a double challenge for them. Several moms on that list suggested HOD, and said it had been a Godsend for them and their families. So that is going higher on my list of possibilities for next year. I would greatly mourn the loss of PLL and ILL as they have been lovely during our years of homeschooling, but if narration, dictation, poetry and copywork are scheduled, perhaps I won't miss them as much as I think I would.

 

Good luck with your decision!

Blessings,

Aimee

Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20

Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

 

This is a concern for me. My daughter is ADHD. Her LA skills are actually quite advanced (her learning issues are primarily in the math area) but nuance is still a problem for her. She's a literal thinker. Complicated symbolic language is hard for her. She can read challenging books (for example she's reading the original Pinocchio right now herself) but as you point out, AO books are challenging for a different reason.

 

One things I've though of if I go with HOD is to use ILL instead of Rod and Staff. It appears from the samples that they just schedule 'time to do R&S now' rather than integrate those lessons into anything so it seems I'd be able to do ILL in it's place without really affecting much.

 

Heather

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

One things I've though of if I go with HOD is to use ILL instead of Rod and Staff. It appears from the samples that they just schedule 'time to do R&S now' rather than integrate those lessons into anything so it seems I'd be able to do ILL in it's place without really affecting much.

 

Heather

 

This appears true. I see in most of the samples that where it schedules R&S and such that it notes the option "Your own grammar program" or "Your own writing program".

[Evergreen Academy]

HOD does seem to leave room for your own grammar program, but I consider ILL and PLL more of a writing program with informal grammar. Through the years, I've supplemented with something simple like Evan Moore Grammar and Punctuation, but then I feel maybe I'm doubling up...and when I leave it out, I worry that I'm missing something the standardized tests will include. It's had very good results with ds13 (he used both books), and the three youngers enjoy ILL and PLL as well, but I wonder whether it might be a relief to have something that includes it all and I don't have to plan it?

 

I wonder if HOD includes some of the copywork, dictation and poetry I like from Serle's books. I suppose I could pick up R&S, and if we hate it, I still have copies of PLL and ILL:confused:...still thinking it all through here.

Blessings,

Aimee

Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20

Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

[twoxcell]

You could substitute PLL, or ILL with Hod, but there would be some overlap. HOD guides cover poetry, dictation, copywork, narration, and a bit of picture study. R&S grammar is just grammar with a bit of writing.

 

As far as why I love HOD:

It is totally open and go for me. I simply look over the coming week on Sunday night and I'm ready to go.

It covers everything I love about CM aside from nature study, composer study, and artist study(composer, and artist study are covered in later guides) all of which I can add in easily.

It is the closest program I have found to what I think CM education should be.

HOD uses books that I would choose on my own.

It meets all my kids where they are at.

It starts gently, and then really ramps up.

It is perfectly Christ centered for me.

My kids enjoy the books we are reading, and all the projects.

The projects are simple enough that I actually do them.

It does not contain a bunch of evolutionary content that I have to sift through.

It is teaching me how to teach Narration.

It is mostly reusable, which I want because I have 4 kids I want to reuse it for.

It covers a wide array of subjects. One thing I love about Charlotte Mason.

HOD keeps lessons short.

 

The only negative I can think of is the science is a bit light in the first couple of guides, but we just add in Apologia Elementary science text. Better yet my dh does those with the kids in the evenings, so I don't have to worry about it.

[Heather in VA]

Thank you all for helping me think this through. I think I have made a decision. I went to a homeschool fair tonight and after much stress and driving my kids crazy going back over and over to look at it - I bought Paths to Settlement. I bought it from Schoolhouse Publishing which I really must plug here because it was a very good price AND the woman assured me over and over that I could take my time looking through it at home and return it with no problem if I change my mind. It was so nice of her to understand how hard a decision it can be sometimes. There is so much in this program I'm a bit overwhelmed right now. I hope tomorrow I feel as good about the decision as I do tonight LOL.

 

I really appreciate all of your input.

 

Heather

[lovetobehome]

I agree with twoxcell, and all her reasons! Finally, FINALLY settled with HOD. I tried it several times and ditched it before I finally came back to it and committed. My son has actually almost completed an entire year of the SAME curriculum, HOD CtoC. Every other year, we never made it through the year using the same thing, I always switched. So much relief, and so much time saved, now that I have decided to stick with it. Not even looking at anything else. I actually thought about sending my kids to a Catholic school this year, our priest's wife teaches there and would be his teacher. But I decided I wanted him to continue all the fun and good learning in HOD instead. :-)

 

I am probably going to use Preparing with my daughter, but might farm out the science using SOS.

 

About R&S, yes, you can easily substitute any grammar book. But I love R&S, so thorough and good.

 

 

You could substitute PLL, or ILL with Hod, but there would be some overlap. HOD guides cover poetry, dictation, copywork, narration, and a bit of picture study. R&S grammar is just grammar with a bit of writing.

 

As far as why I love HOD:

It is totally open and go for me. I simply look over the coming week on Sunday night and I'm ready to go.

It covers everything I love about CM aside from nature study, composer study, and artist study(composer, and artist study are covered in later guides) all of which I can add in easily.

It is the closest program I have found to what I think CM education should be.

HOD uses books that I would choose on my own.

It meets all my kids where they are at.

It starts gently, and then really ramps up.

It is perfectly Christ centered for me.

My kids enjoy the books we are reading, and all the projects.

The projects are simple enough that I actually do them.

It does not contain a bunch of evolutionary content that I have to sift through.

It is teaching me how to teach Narration.

It is mostly reusable, which I want because I have 4 kids I want to reuse it for.

It covers a wide array of subjects. One thing I love about Charlotte Mason.

HOD keeps lessons short.

 

The only negative I can think of is the science is a bit light in the first couple of guides, but we just add in Apologia Elementary science text. Better yet my dh does those with the kids in the evenings, so I don't have to worry about it.

[GoldenMolly]

Heather,

 

Let us know what you think after looking through it more. I have been looking at this one for next year too and would love to hear your thoughts.

[Heather in VA]

I agree with twoxcell, and all her reasons! Finally, FINALLY settled with HOD. I tried it several times and ditched it before I finally came back to it and committed.

 

I am so happy for you!! Sometimes it's not so much what you decide, but that you decide and stick with it. That's something I've learned over time is that when I go into something with a committed mindset it's much more successful than if I just want to 'try and see'. I think that's why my older girls are doing so well. I'm very committed to my plan for the upper levels. This decision just threw me because it was something new.

 

Heather

[krisperry]

I used Paths of Exploration this year. You had listed under cons that it might be time-consuming. It isn't ;) I think there is easily time left for other literature.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I am going between HOD, trail guide path to settlement, or a mix of things we may like. We will most likely go back to MFW after this year though so I am going nuts trying to figure out what to do this comming school year.

I am interested to see how you feel about the choice you made.

[Heather in VA]

You know - I bought Paths of Settlement and have been pouring over it. It's a fabulous product. I love everything about it. But (and you heard that coming didn't you) it's just too much for my daughter next year. I am going to return it and go with HOD. I may use it someday. I definitely want to use it someday but for next year I think the better choice is going to be HOD. I needed to have POS in my hands to really know what I wanted. For anyone who is reading this, it is NOT a reflection of how I feel about POS. It is REALLY, REALLY good. I just feel that while I thought Paths of Exploration was a bit light for what I wanted next year, POS is really packed and a bit much for a 3rd grader.

 

Heather