Prairie Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I was just about to order from CLE when I did a search on here to see if anyone had anything used for sale and found a thread about them bashing Catholics. I was raised Catholic and gee, I was always lead to believe that it was wrong to condemn others. Does anyone feel like you don't fit in if you're not in a skirt and scarf? Well TT here we come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I was just about to order from CLE when I did a search on here to see if anyone had anything used for sale and found a thread about them bashing Catholics. I was raised Catholic and gee, I was always lead to believe that it was wrong to condemn others. Does anyone feel like you don't fit in if you're not in a skirt and scarf? Well TT here we come! Yeah, I'm getting that feeling more and more, too. :grouphug: I'm SO glad I have someplace like this, though, to come and get brought back to reality. ;) Reality is, just because a group is vocal, doesn't mean they're the majority. They're just like my 4 month old... he might be the loudest in the house, but he's also the smallest. (And FWIW, bashing people like that shows that they have the maturity of my 4 month old, too, IMHO. :glare:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetzi Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm not sure what you are specifically referring to, but I don't like any bashing. I was reading recently (in a Catholic book) that the Catholic church was special because they are the *only* ones who follow Jesus Christ. Um...I can name many churches who claim to and do follow Jesus. Unfortunately the intolerance exists both ways. I think we'd all be better if we followed the second greatest commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself. Mt 22:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 :iagree: I just typed in CLE Math Catholics to the Search and it's a post in March from Eleanor which leads you to another post. I don't know how to 'attach' a post otherwise I would... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 We're Lutheran...really traditional Lutheran. Our service is very similar to a RC church, so I know where you're coming from and I did read that thread you're referring to. I agree with "some" of the stuff that was said. I haven't seen anything in CLE Math or LA that was offensive. In fact, the Math doesn't have much religious reference in it - not like the Reading. I was warned to stay away from their science and social studies...and I'm sure it's because those two subjects are specifically from a Mennonite perspective. You can avoid CLE Math if you don't want to buy a product from a company that's not Catholic-friendly...but if you looked at the math workbooks, I don't think you'll encounter anything negative in them. You can always look at samples online. I've been able to use Apologia and My Father's World and some CLE without any big religious issues, but if they came out with a Lutheran homeschool program...we're on board! :hurray: (And I would probably faint with excitement.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 I guess I'm like an ostrich with it's head in the sand. I didn't even realize this was going on until I got a little pamphlet in the mail with some used school books I'd ordered. I thought it was a fluke kind of thing but gee my eyes are being opened up more and more. I really, really, really wanted to go with CLE for math. But I feel kinda wierd giving my hard earned $ to someone that bashes other religions. Is there anything out there that's as good as CLE, not teacher intensive, and EASY for kids to follow? Anything? Anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Is there anything out there that's as good as CLE, not teacher intensive, and EASY for kids to follow? Anything? Anybody? Do you like Horizons? Singapore? Math Mammoth? Is Saxon not working out for you? Are you looking for something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 We are at our wits end with Saxon. Although I'm not an expert in math, I think that when a problem refers you to a chapter, you should easily be able to make out what they are trying to explain. We are in book 7/6 and I CAN'T even figure out what they are saying half the time. Daughter is using the DIVE cd too but she's just not getting it. That's why I was considreing CLE 500 and just starting her over, although she'll be in 7th grade, there is a lot in the 500 & 600 that isn't covered in the 7/6 Saxon book. Then I read the review of the TT post earlier today (about the standardized testing stuff) and thought that might be a good fit but it's really expensive compared to CLE 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I did see the Teaching Textbook prices... :glare: Do you like Life of Fred? Or something like that? Edited to say: You might get some more responses on the Logic Stage board. Oh, what about Math U See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 You had my support and sympathy........until you added that last part. You don't like how your religion is treated, but you turn around and bash some other group. :glare: Could be that the anabaptists didn't appreciate being drowned and burned at the stake by The Church, and it affected their opinions down through time......just say'n. Hope you find something you like. Now, now... We've all been there. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well if implying that I feel out of place when surrounded by ladies wearing skirts and scarves is bashing a religion then I am truly sorry. That was not my intent. It was actually an afterthought. I just didn't realize how big this religion bashing was. And yes, I do feel out of place, especially at the home school conventions. I even feel unwelcome there. I've always tried to find the best fit for my kids and really like Christian based curriculums. Honestly, I havn't even looked at the 'rules' of the religions that sell the curriculums we use. I guess I just felt like if they were good enough to put out a great curriculum, then they are good people. Perhaps I need to be more diligent in searching 'all' the information and not just the 'diagnostic' tests and such. We've used Abeka, currently use Apologia, R&S, Sonlight, etc. Even though some of these companies have been doing this 'bashing' (which I just found out about this afternoon) I still think they are good people, putting out good curriculum. My apologies to anyone wearing a skirt (no matter how long or short) and/or a scarf (religious based or not) who might have taken offense to my comment made earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Oh. Dear. I've never used this programming and have never heard such a thing, but this is very disturbing. Why on earth would different denominations of Christians attack each other? Isn't there enough trouble in the world without adding more needlessly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 This is why I only consider secular materials even though we are Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauracolumbus Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 To the OP, We're using Saxon, but I've come to like it more since we've started using Art Reed's dvd's that go along w/it. I"m not good at providing links, but the dvd's should be easy to find if you google it. I also use the new Saxon dvds (sort of like Dive, but better I believe). I like as much help as possible, especially as the kids march on toward stuff I can't remember at all. Another option is Kinetic Books, an online math program, which I talked a friend into using for her 7th grader this year. I don't have the courage to leave Saxon yet b/c my kids are testing really well with it. My friend has liked Kinetic Books (as does her son), so I might consider switching some time in the future. And I, too, am Catholic, but I don't buy my math from Seton (or any other religious-based math curriculum) b/c I want my math to be secular. And you will need to be careful w/some curricula to avoid the bashing of other religions. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 This is why I only consider secular materials even though we are Christian. Ummmm....hate to chime in here....but secular materials are not neutral. All materials written by people have bias....including so called "neutral" ones. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Ummmm....hate to chime in here....but secular materials are not neutral. All materials written by people have bias....including so called "neutral" ones. Faithe As far as math goes, maybe you want go go with modern curriculum press or horizons. I have not found anything offensive in CLE math...and have finished years 1,2,4,5,6. The reading program is very evangelical in a Mennonite way. It did not bother me.....but I could see where it may bug my sil who is a Roman Catholic. I just explain that this is how mennonites believe and they have good hearts, but just like everyone else, they have their ideas, opinions and biases. I have had great conversations with my kids over lots of things that come up in curricula...including secular (neutral) humanist materials. I will not use A beka or BJU because of their stances on interracial couples, Jews and Catholics which were extremely evident in their 7th grade World History...even I, who can usually talk around anything found their bias harsh and unfair. So, I just ditched the book, told my kids why....and moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamom Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 We are at our wits end with Saxon. Although I'm not an expert in math, I think that when a problem refers you to a chapter, you should easily be able to make out what they are trying to explain. We are in book 7/6 and I CAN'T even figure out what they are saying half the time. Daughter is using the DIVE cd too but she's just not getting it. That's why I was considreing CLE 500 and just starting her over, although she'll be in 7th grade, there is a lot in the 500 & 600 that isn't covered in the 7/6 Saxon book. Then I read the review of the TT post earlier today (about the standardized testing stuff) and thought that might be a good fit but it's really expensive compared to CLE 500. This was our experience with Saxon also and we switshed (back too!) CLE and love it. I have not noticed any Catholic bashing though, are you sure someone wasn't over reacting? We are in 4th and 5th grade by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Why on earth would different denominations of Christians attack each other? Isn't there enough trouble in the world without adding more needlessly? i agree. but honestly, even on these boards christians bicker and argue with one another over such stupid things imho. it's no surprise really that it happens on a larger scale too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateLeft Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 We're Catholic also, and I stay away from certain publishers who have anti-Catholic stances and feel that we're in serious theological error. I also stay away from Protestant publishers who aren't particularly anti-Catholic, but who promote their theology in a way that I feel is incompatible with ours, or would require too much discussion to correct. I'm not opposed to that discussion with my older kids, but with limited time, I have to pick my battles! Fortunately, there are plenty of companies and publishers, Catholic, Protestant and secular, that don't fall into either of those camps. For math in the lower grades, we've used Singapore and K12. Actually, we've *tried* a lot of other programs, but those are the only ones that we really liked. At higher levels, we use Chalkdust. Knowing what I know now (and what fits my family), I'd use Singapore and then Chalkdust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I was just about to order from CLE when I did a search on here to see if anyone had anything used for sale and found a thread about them bashing Catholics. I was raised Catholic and gee, I was always lead to believe that it was wrong to condemn others. Does anyone feel like you don't fit in if you're not in a skirt and scarf? Well TT here we come! I am not sure who a skirt and a scarf refers to, since I know plenty of religious women who wear skirts and scarves, including nuns, who certainly are Catholic, as well as Jews, Muslims, and rastafarians, and others who are not religious at all. I am sorry you are in a period of feeling excluded. That being said, I think you can easily find non-religious math texts. I am not sure these are being anti-religion, by leaving this to the family to discuss. You can easily make oral or alter word problems to introduce a moral or religious theme, of whatever sort you'd prefer (e.g. "David wants to raise $100 to send an orphan to school. He's raised $67 so far. How much remains until he meets his goal?"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) I have not found anything offensive in CLE math...and have finished years 1,2,4,5,6. I also understood the OP to be saying that there was Catholic-bashing in the math program, but that is apparently not what she meant. I think she means that she cannot in good conscience purchase materials from a company that disparages Catholics in any of their materials. (quite an understandable position, it's just that I misunderstood what she meant!) I did the search and followed the link that she mentioned, and the offensive remarks were from the 3rd grade Social Studies curriculum. I have never been tempted by CLE's Social Studies or Science because I know those would not work for us for a number of reasons. I do, however, really like their Math and Language Arts. So I am glad to have clarification on this matter. I do not AT ALL like or defend what they said in that Social Studies book. But I do think it's worth stating that a person can use the math program without exposing their child to that. Edited April 15, 2011 by GretaLynne typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenfoot Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I grew up an evangelical, conservative Protestant who was taught that Catholics are basically pseudo-Christians; that if some of them are saved, it is in spite of the Church (not because of it); that they worship Mary and saints; that their rituals are empty, meaningless tripe, and so on. Today I am Catholic (by active choice, not marriage), and sometimes I run into people who have the same opinions I used to hold. I encourage the original poster who was shocked at the "bashing" to try not to let it upset her. Those who don't regard Catholics as Christian brethren do not do so out of spite but out of genuine belief, based on information they have been given about the Catholic Church--some true, some twisted--just as I was. They aren't intending to bash so much as teach what they believe to be true, and...well, aren't we all? Now that I am on the other side of the line, I feel it is more productive to simply understand their point of view, accept it for what it is, and try to correct misconceptions about the Church, one discussion at a time. And I usually make sure I choose curricula that is not known to be anti-Catholic, so that I do not support such companies. It may not feel good to be regarded by other Christians in this way, but Catholics have their views about them in return--and I guess it is just one of those things that will not go away until Jesus stitches everything back together--Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox, all as one. Maybe it will be on earth or maybe in heaven--but someday, we will be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I will not use A beka or BJU because of their stances on interracial couples, Uh-oh! Huh? :confused: Really? That's ridiculous. That's it. We'll never do their spelling again! :eek: Someone tell me it ain't so. :svengo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellalarella Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Math U see has worked great for us. It just sticks with numbers. I think that one time a story problem mentioned something about a "drive to church," but, happily, not WHICH church. :) WE also LOVE Life Of Fred. DD12 reads it to friends. Fred does, however, go to Sunday School, but happily not a denominated Sunday School. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Uh-oh! Huh? :confused: Really? That's ridiculous. That's it. We'll never do their spelling again! :eek: Someone tell me it ain't so. :svengo: http://articles.cnn.com/2000-03-04/us/bob.jones_1_racist-school-ends-ban-bushs-visit?_s=PM:US BJU ended their ban in 2000. Whether this shows it is broad-minded or closed minded is a matter of interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 http://articles.cnn.com/2000-03-04/us/bob.jones_1_racist-school-ends-ban-bushs-visit?_s=PM:USBJU ended their ban in 2000. Whether this shows it is broad-minded or closed minded is a matter of interpretation. They banned interracial marriage because it was going to bring in the antichrist?? :confused: Ah, sigh. I give up. :scared: Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymatters Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry I don't know what ages your children are, but Developmental Mathematics is an excellent program, esp. for those with engineering/analytical mindsets, only needing Measurements and clock work (from MM) and some extra word problems supplemented, if you really feel like you have to, it has word problems. It introduces algabraic concepts early and is mastery based. I've used it with my son from the beginning (he's 10.5); it has a different scope and sequence than normal spiral programs. The other I would recommend is Math Mammoth; again a mastery based program; a little more understandable for an artistic mindest and with learning problems (my artsy, dd w/SID struggled in DM) but is thorough. For both, only an abacus was used. Both are void of religious references. You will have to find another program for upper level math, however. HTH, Rachel Edited April 15, 2011 by Messianicmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 They banned interracial marriage because it was going to bring in the antichrist?? :confused: Ah, sigh. I give up. :scared: Thanks for the link. Are their leaders Aaron and Miriam? Wonder how long they were banished outside of the camp :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 To the OP,We're using Saxon, but I've come to like it more since we've started using Art Reed's dvd's that go along w/it. I"m not good at providing links, but the dvd's should be easy to find if you google it. I also use the new Saxon dvds (sort of like Dive, but better I believe). I like as much help as possible, especially as the kids march on toward stuff I can't remember at all. Another option is Kinetic Books, an online math program, which I talked a friend into using for her 7th grader this year. I don't have the courage to leave Saxon yet b/c my kids are testing really well with it. My friend has liked Kinetic Books (as does her son), so I might consider switching some time in the future. And I, too, am Catholic, but I don't buy my math from Seton (or any other religious-based math curriculum) b/c I want my math to be secular. And you will need to be careful w/some curricula to avoid the bashing of other religions. Laura Do you have a link to the new Saxon DVDs?:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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