I really need some advice on choosing between SWR and AAS

[Guest Shanna]

I am so torn over this one decision. I just seem unable to decide which is the best choice. I want to use it for all of my children. Not only to teach reading to the younger ones but as remedial for my older one that needs it. I also want it for the spelling aspect. I know it can be hard to get unbiased opinions about these two as people are die-hards one way or the other.

 

I really really like the open and go of AAS. But, since it is only being sold as a spelling program I am kinda lost on how to implement the reading aspect. I have asked Marie about this and she says that they do plan on having a reading program to go with it in the future but I need that right now. I also like the tactile part of AAS.

 

I like SWR because it is a one time purchase and I can place my children depending on their levels rather than all starting at Level 1. But, I know there is a learning curve for SWR and that totally scares me.

 

Maybe if I give you some backgroud you all can help me here.

13 yr old learned to read via whole language and we are paying for it. He is reading books at or above grade level but I know he is not getting the full benefit of reading because he does not know how to sound out words so he runs into issues with not knowing words. This frustrates both of us. He needs to learn all the phonograms so that he can figure out any word he comes across. He is also not a nautral speller.

 

9 yr old learned to read using Alphaphonics. He needs deeper instruction to figure out the more difficult aspects of phonics.

 

8 yr old has learning delays. He can read cvc words but that is about it. He is on the autism spectrum and also has sensory integration disorder. I am sure it will take even a few more years for him to learn to read. I am fine with that cause if you had any idea how far he has come you would understand why I feel that way.

 

5 yr old....The Lord knew I needed an easy one. He has just about taught himself to read. He remembers every phonics rule I give him. He also spells well just by sounding out words. It is amazing to watch him.

 

So that is a short version of what I am dealing with and obstacles I need to help them overcome. If you need more information to help me just ask. Cause I need all the help I can get on this one.

[8filltheheart]

Well, Shanna, since I don't particularly care for either one, perhaps I can give you an unbiased opinion. ;)

 

I think that AAS would be difficult to use to teach reading. It moves at an incredibly slow pace. I think that the level two words are more in lines with 1st grade for spelling. Kids' reading levels are usually several levels above their spelling levels.

 

SWR would be my choice if I had to select between those two options. SWR is not as "baby-ish" in its presentation and would probably not be offensive to your 13 yo. The phonogram cards have the basic phonics rules on them so they can memorize the sounds and associated rules simultaneously. This might help your oldest's reading issues rather quickly.

 

HTH

[St. Theophan Academy]

My opinions (FWIW :) ) I have both, and struggled to use SWR as a teaching reading tool, and failed (and decided I hated it and would never use it again!). I got AAS because it seemed simple to implement. We used it for a few weeks, but found it not all that interesting. My final opinion is: I do NOT like trying to teach a child to read through writing and spelling - it has not worked for my kids. That said, now that they are reading, I am implementing SWR as a spelling program, and am beginning to like it. I liked the "idea" of AAS, and the letters etc - but really, all of that can be done with SWR - in fact, the way my dd learned to read this year was to use a magnetic board and magnet letters - I taught her a few phonogram sounds at a time, and we spent weeks just forming different word combinations with the letters. Then when she could begin to blend sounds, we started ETC, and now she is beginning to do the SWR spelling lists. So, while I have taught 2 kids to read without SWR, I will continue using it for spelling, and I found the concepts helpful (to me) in teaching my kids to read. With the next ones I plan to just focus on teaching phonogram sounds using letter tiles, bean bags, magnetic letters and whatever else is in the house, then move on the SWR after they are reading CVC and silent "e" words etc. I do teach them all the sounds for each vowel, but then we just focus on the basic short sound when we first start reading words. By the time we move on to long vowel words, they have transitioned smoothly, since they already know the 3 sounds of "a". So, while I do not consider myself an "advocate" for SWR, I have decided it is the best tool for me, and AAS just does not do it for me. I think SWR would be a great remedial program and I know there are others who have made it very successful as a reading program - me, I am sticking to my magnet letters and ETC :)

[Sue G in PA]

Well, Shanna, since I don't particularly care for either one, perhaps I can give you an unbiased opinion. ;)

 

I think that AAS would be difficult to use to teach reading. It moves at an incredibly slow pace. I think that the level two words are more in lines with 1st grade for spelling. Kids' reading levels are usually several levels above their spelling levels.

 

SWR would be my choice if I had to select between those two options. SWR is not as "baby-ish" in its presentation and would probably not be offensive to your 13 yo. The phonogram cards have the basic phonics rules on them so they can memorize the sounds and associated rules simultaneously. This might help your oldest's reading issues rather quickly.

 

HTH

 

Hey, Karen...good to see a post from you! Welcome back! Okay..totally hi-jacking this thread to say that, but you were missed!

 

Okay, now as to AAS or SWR...I have not used SWR. I looked at it, read back posts re: AAS vs. SWR and "almost" put out the big bucks for SWR. Then I realized I didn't have time to learn how to use it much less implement it. AAS seemed a good compromise as it used a lot of the same strategies. I just got my AAS materials, have looked through it and am excited to start it. It looks easy to use. My 10yo is my "remedial" one and even though Level 1 will be a breeze for him...there are still some "rules" that he is not quite solid with in Level 1. So, we'll go through it quickly until we reach that "sticking point". As for teaching reading...I don't know about how that would work. I can see it being a reinforcement to a phonics program, but not a stand alone. You could easily do as a prev. poster said and use the letter tiles to build words on a magnetic board along with another program like OPG or Phonics Pathways or something like that.

[Guest Shanna]

As for teaching reading...I don't know about how that would work. I can see it being a reinforcement to a phonics program, but not a stand alone. You could easily do as a prev. poster said and use the letter tiles to build words on a magnetic board along with another program like OPG or Phonics Pathways or something like that.

 

This is why I am also leaning towards SWR. I want something that will put them together. I dont know why but I really like the look of AAS but I want the combination of reading and spelling.

 

BTW, I have been trying to find magnetic letters to use and I cannot find them. None of the WalMarts in my area have them.

 

Thanks ladies for helping me work through this.

[teamturner]

As for teaching reading...I don't know about how that would work. I can see it being a reinforcement to a phonics program, but not a stand alone. You could easily do as a prev. poster said and use the letter tiles to build words on a magnetic board along with another program like OPG or Phonics Pathways or something like that.

 

I agree with Sue, AAS would be a good supplement to a separate phonics/reading program and even then I wouldn't start AAS until some basic phonics are learned. I really liked Phonics Pathways for teaching reading and I think the author says it can be used with older children who need to go back and learn phonics method of reading. It's not an expensive book either. Then if you decide to use AAS, I would have the older child just sit with the phonics CD-Rom and click on the letters and learn the phonograms (at least most of them) for each letter before you do any lessons. I'm sure with whatever route you decide to go, any of these programs will be helpful to you overcome the obstacles you have identified. Blessings!

[ELaurie]

My ds 8 has visual processing issues; as a result, learning to read was difficult, learning to write was challenging, and learning to spell is proceeding slowly. He's bright, and learns easily in other areas, but these critical skills are frustrating for him to learn.

 

I initially chose SWR because it was recommended for a child who struggles in these areas. I liked the approach, and I gave it a solid try. My experience with ds 8 was that the frustration caused by the writing involved hindered his ability to learn to read and spell. At teh time, he was still reversing letters regularly; the symbols and underlining were visually distracting and confused him; this was true even when I went to great lengths to use a white board so he could write as large as he wanted / needed to and painstakingly make my own set of magnetic letter tiles with all of the phonograms and symbols on them. In the end I returned to JW's wise ;) advice in WTM, and taught reading, writing and spelling sequentially.

 

Last year, he learned to read; this year he is learning to write and spell. It has been tedious and challenging for both of us, but he's making progress :) I have found that AAS is a dream to use in it's simplicity, and he enjoys spelling, so I guess we're on our way :auto:

 

If you decide to use AAS, the program comes with a guarantee, and the author will generously respond to questions.

 

I hope my reply doesn't confuse you further; I know others have used SWR with success.

 

I hope you will find the program that will work best for you and your dc.

[Guest Shanna]

Thank you. My 8 yr old has auditory processing issues which I did not add up at the top. So it makes learning to blend even more difficult for him.

 

I am wondering if maybe I should just stay the course. I have been using OPGTTR with all of them. I did not start at the beginning with the older 2 but found a place where I felt they needed to learn the explicit phonics and we began there. The younger 2 started at the beginning. We are on Lesson 33 with my 8 yr old. It is slow going but at least we are making progress.

 

Maybe I should just continue using OPGTTR remedially with my olders and add in AAS for spelling and rules and allow it to help behind the scenes in a sense. Then add AAS with my 8 yr old when he is reading a bit more. My 5 yr old is ready to start AAS but I might wait a little bit longer. I am sure my older 2 will fly through AAS but I knw it is important to start at the beginning.

 

Any thoughts? I dont even know if what I wrote makes sense as I am thinking out loud here.

[8filltheheart]

Thank you. My 8 yr old has auditory processing issues which I did not add up at the top. So it makes learning to blend even more difficult for him.

 

I am wondering if maybe I should just stay the course. I have been using OPGTTR with all of them. I did not start at the beginning with the older 2 but found a place where I felt they needed to learn the explicit phonics and we began there. The younger 2 started at the beginning. We are on Lesson 33 with my 8 yr old. It is slow going but at least we are making progress.

 

Maybe I should just continue using OPGTTR remedially with my olders and add in AAS for spelling and rules and allow it to help behind the scenes in a sense. Then add AAS with my 8 yr old when he is reading a bit more. My 5 yr old is ready to start AAS but I might wait a little bit longer. I am sure my older 2 will fly through AAS but I knw it is important to start at the beginning.

 

Any thoughts? I dont even know if what I wrote makes sense as I am thinking out loud here.

 

 

I think the problem you will encounter with AAS is the fact that all 72 phonograms are not mastered even by the end of level 2. For young kids, that is ok b/c they are learning their letters, sounds, how to read, etc. Your older kids already know those things and will learn far more rapidly than its pace.

 

Personally, for your older kids I would buy the phonogram cards and have them master the sounds and rules and perhaps buy a book like How to Teach Spelling which will teach you all of the rules and has spelling lists and sentences that you can study with your older children. The TM is not easy to use as a spelling program, but if you want to use the O-G approach for reading with all your kids, it might be a good source for you.

[ELaurie]

I used TOPG with my ds 8. I like it because it is systematic and very thorough.

 

My ds 5 is like yours; left to his own devices, I think he would just figure out how to read on his own :)

 

However, I am using TOPG with him too, just to be sure we cover all of the bases. Since he only needs to hear the rules once to remember them (in contrast to my older ds, who needed lots of repetition), I don't do as many of the "two review and one new" activities, or the enrichment activities with him. He hates the stories, so I don't require him to read all of them; we read other books instead.

 

I used AAS level 1 with him this year, and he flew through it.

 

Ds 8 is about half way through level 2, and I hope to keep chipping away at this summer, primarily because he needs practice withe his handwriting, and also because I don't want him to forget all that he has labored to learn this year.

 

What momof7 says about the phonograms is true; your older dc will fly through AAS, and could probably learn the phonograms more quickly than they are presented in AAS. However, given your situation, you might still find the "pick up and go" aspect of AAS to be very appealing.

 

Having thought about your post, and read your replies, I'm inclined to encourage you to stay the course, rather than attempting to use SWR. As you said in your original post, there is a learning curve with SWR, and I found that the effort involved with implementing it wasn't worth the investment for us. Again, I know that it is a fine program, and others have had different experiences with it.

 

Perhaps my experience was colored by the fact that I was also on a learning curve to implement history and science and poetry memorization and art and music appreciation :), not to mention trying to figure out the issues with ds 8 and the therapies he needed, but I found that using AAS freed up my time to do some more cohesive planning in other areas.

 

Again, I hope you will find what will be an optimal fit for you and your dc :)

[lfong]

I have been using SWR for the past 1 1/2 years with my dd who is now 6.5 and finishing up 1st grade. While SWR works great for our dd, I agree this program may not be for everyone. To help with the anxiety of the learning curve, I have found that attending their 2 day seminar really helpful in implementing the program. They have the seminars in various parts of the country so you might want to check out their website if there is a seminar being offered in a location near you. I attended the seminar 6 months after I started the program just because of scheduling conflicts. So, I found that my learning curve when I first started took about 1-2 months to feel confident that I know what I was doing.

 

This program needs to be done every day and has taken us from 30-40 minutes. There are no bells and whistles or colorful pictures. However, we have had great success with our dd reading and spelling above her grade level, particularly in the last few weeks I am amazed how she has really progressed. Of all the curriculum that we are currently using for school, this by far has worked the best for us. I do empathize with those who have had difficulties because each child is different I can't tell you how my ds will do when he comes of age for school in a few years. We'll see.

 

If you go with SWR, there is an active yahoo group that is really supportive and helpful! Wanda Sanseri who wrote SWR posts responses as well as other SWR Trainers. I hope this is helps in your decision making. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

lfong

[farmwife]

:iagree:

I agree with everything lfrong said. I started my daughter last fall with SWR and although we took a long break over winter, I am so glad to be back. It makes English spelling make sense (for the most part;)).

 

I am trying to teach my son to read now and 'other' phonics programs don't make sense to me anymore. I am going to start SWR in the fall with him too because it's just what makes sense to me. Everything else just falls short somehow.

 

My one recommendation is that you do make it to a 2 day seminar. There is a learning curve with this program but I feel the investment was worth every penny!

 

HTH,

~fw

[rafiki]

.

[Jennay]

BTW, I have been trying to find magnetic letters to use and I cannot find them. None of the WalMarts in my area have them.

 

I have magnetic tiles that I got from Rainbow Resource.

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1211643343-956952&subject=5&category=886

(If that URL doesn't work do a search for Magnetic Tiles)

 

Maybe you could use these with whatever program you choose. (The colors are different from AAS though)

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'm not die-hard any direction. I read your post through a few times, and I guess I'd encourage you to think of what it is you're wanting from each program. It sounds like you really want the hands-on from AAS. It seems right on (to me) to ask what modes of presentation would help your 8 yo, and I agree that you could print the SWR phonograms onto magnet paper or just use the Walmart tiles, no problem. Or nuts, just print them onto tagboard and laminate, as that's all the AAS tiles are anyway, aren't they? Or maybe they've spiffed up and gone magnetic?

 

There's a similar program called ABCDarian that it seems you ought to check into. Pensguys is using it successfully (on top of therapy, etc.) with her struggling boy of similar age. Look for her posts and see what she's using and of course ask on the Special Needs board.

 

As far as practicality, I think you may end up wanting a couple different programs, just being honest here. The thing that remediates your oldest more quickly might not have the special, slower pace appropriate for your 8 yo. And while you COULD slow down SWR to fit your 8 yo, you need to have a better grasp of it than a beginner would. SWR just isn't going to give you those extra tools that a more specialized program would, one that's TRYING to be slower, trying to be more hands-on. SWR is, in essence, just a bunch of words, some rules, and an attack method. Everything beyond that is what *you* make of it. I think, in your situation and with as much as you have going on, you'd do better to plunk out for a program that gives you more of those tools upfront. I just think you'd be happier. Look up what Pensguys is using and talk with her.

 

Now, on your 5 yo, the 9 and the 13, it seems like you have different things going on. ANYTHING would work with your 5 yo, and he has both the normal limitations of attention and writing quantity for his age. In your position, honestly I'd either get a simple workbook series like ETC or continue OPGTR. Is OPGTR helping your 9 yo? Is it helping your 13 yo? Who is it working for? Why are you looking for something else? My guess is you're feeling some time constraints with your oldest. SWR would work for this, but it's a shame, with the load you have, you can't find something more independent to do the job. Didn't someone say Reading Rewards takes about the same approach but is meant for an older, remedial student wanting to work more quickly? I'd check it out, just to see. SWR would indeed work very well to hit your 9 and 13 yo's. Then in another year you could fold in your 5 yo too. I just hate the thought of you getting overwhelmed by SWR. It's not hard, but it's such a different way of thinking through things that it takes people a while to get used to it. Once you get used to it, it's not bad. So I guess you have to be realistic about your time and mental energy that you have to give to learning it. I also have my quick start guide to download on lulu http://www.lulu.com/etclaggett

 

At least be kind to yourself and only try to learn one new program at once. I think you are going to want special helps and material for your 8 yo, but for the rest you really have a lot of options. I'd punt on that 5 yo a year, just giving him workbooks or continuing OPGTR, whichever is easier for you. That just leaves your 9 and 13 yo's to decide about. So it's not a one curriculum answer, but at least a one new thing at a time till you get everyone's needs met answer.

[Another Lynn]

I didn't read all the replies. I can't give you an unbiased answer because I've only used SWR. However, I wonder if it would be worth your while to buy the SWR phonogram and rules flash cards (~$10 each?). You also might like to have the Alpha List which is an alphbetical listing of 2300 words showing SWR's markings. (This could be helpful if you're wondering why "shoe" has an "e" on the end when you know that "oe" doesn't say "oo" - so you look it up in the alpha list and find that the "o" is making it's 3rd sound "oo" and it has an "odd job silent e" on the end). These suggestions are just to give you a taste for the program before buy all of it.

 

Two ways SWR have benefitted me:

 

1) I now feel confident how to teach phonics without 50 million exceptions and I can explain so much more to my children than before. (I was constantly telling my oldest ds that words were exceptions when truth was I didn't know if they were, why they were, or what phonograms or rules applied to them. He saw no logic to the process and we muddled and struggled until we got SWR).

 

2) The other benefit has been teaching spelling through dictation of the sounds rather than through visual cues. My oldest ds was helped in his reading by ETC, but workbook exercises that relied only on visual practice did nothing for his spelling.

 

The cons: As pp said, if you have one struggling with writing then you will have to improvise. And as you and everyone else has mentioned there is a bit of a learning curve. I have also struggled with how to implement, what activities to do everyday and how to streamline. There are ways to keep it from taking over your school day, but it takes a while to figure out what works best for you.

 

Best wishes thinking through it!