Anyone else get a huge fight with copywork?

[K&Rs Mom]

I try to get 2x a week copywork from K, but it usually causes shouting & crying (on her end) as soon as I get out the page. Her printing is pretty legible, and she asked to learn cursive a few months ago so I make her copywork in cursive. She didn't like using Latin vocab and words from history/science topic of the week, so I've started some Bible verses (mostly her requests from 321 Penguins videos) and still get a fight. It's not that it's too hard for her - if I walk away and tell her I'll be back in 2 minutes, she's done when I return. It's not a lot - usually one line written twice (one to trace & one to write). It seems to be totally a power struggle. She requests to do this first when we start schooltime (her philosophy of saving the best for last), then fights with me as soon as she sees it. Any suggestions? I want this to help her spelling & grammar, as well as handwriting, and we don't do any other kind of penmanship program anymore. She does write a lot on her own, but all printing, and she still makes some of her letters incorrectly so I want to work on those without a boring drill page of one letter over & over.

 

Thanks for wading through this rambling!

[Alenee]

My oldest dd who is now 9yo HATED copy work. It would take her FOREVER because she would push push push. Some days she'd have it done quickly so I realized it was a power struggle; those quick days being the ones she just didn't have the energy to fight.

 

I make her do copy work now in prep. for next year's delving into a full-fledged writing program. One reason she pushed (I think) is because I wasn't convinced it was necessary. Now that I am, I laid down the law, and she knows she isn't getting out of it. She's mostly compliant as long as it isn't more than a whole page.

 

I'd say there are two ways of going about this. Either push on through, ignoring her tears or allow her to choose what she copies by giving her a small amount of choices. At one point there was something (can't think of what it is now) that dd didn't want to do. When I told her we were doing it but she could choose what of the different selections she wanted to do, she complied.

 

HTH!

[Reya]

Mine actually likes copywork (clearly he was switched at birth!), but the main reason he likes it is because I use stuff from his memory work--nursery rhymes, Bible verses, etc. If it's familiar, most kids will like it better.

 

Also, make sure it's not too much! My DS started out K doing just two lines a day--and this is portrait-orientation paper with spacing for early elementary! Now he's doing four lines a day without a problem, but that's pretty much his limit at this point.

 

My DS can only do copywork if I copy the material on the line above where he's supposed to write. Moving from paper to paper is too overwhelming. But every other line works fine.

[dragons in the flower bed]

It seems to be totally a power struggle . . . I want this to help her spelling & grammar, as well as handwriting, and we don't do any other kind of penmanship program anymore. She does write a lot on her own, but all printing, and she still makes some of her letters incorrectly so I want to work on those without a boring drill page of one letter over & over.

 

I see in your signature line that she's only five years old, so I'd recommend that you leave it alone for a year or more. Neither the eyes nor the hands of a five-year-old are in suitably ripe to be applied to cursive copywork.

Even if she is objectively physically and developmentally ready for cursive penmanship, which I think you'd have to take her to an occupational therapist to verify, if she's fighting you over it, why press it? KWIM? I try to save battles of will for those things which are necessary, and I don't think cursive is necessary in kindergarten.

 

If she's printing on her own, a lot, in her free time, she's obviously developmentally on target. But if you really must do something to improve her handwriting, teach her to finger knit, or have her knead bread with you 2x a week. This will help her develop the hand strength to write carefully and correctly in cursive, once her brain and eyes catch up to her hands.

[Sue G in PA]

Just agreeing w/ Rose. 5 is rather young for copywork unless the child is all for it. You could hold of another year and still reap the benefits of it. My ds6 HATES copywork. I copied a simple sentence from a science reader for him to copy and it was like I asked him to copy the entire book! Sheesh. So, after trying different types of copywork and still getting the tears and fits...I gave up for a while. We'll resume in a few weeks.

[Lovedtodeath]

Abeka starts cursive at 4 yrs old and they have books called writing with phonics (has words not just letters) which DD loved. They are fun and colorful and she got to color the pics with markers when she was done. You might look into those.

[Jennefer@SSA]

I agree with the other posters who said you could leave copywork alone for awhile and no harm would be done! If you chose to continue here is an idea that worked for my ds(6 at the time).

 

Ds was very frustrated with copywork - not that he was unable, it just seemed boring to him. I started doing what we called, "Words for Nerds". We would count up the words in the copywork selection and he would get one Nerd for each word he copied correctly with proper spacing and letter formation. It wasn't long before he was begging for longer copywork selections!!!!

 

If Nerds wouldn't be a motivator (my kids *rarely* get candy so 12 Nerds seem like a ton!), is there something else that would? Stickers, stamps on a chart....I know some people say that we shouldn't bribe kids for things they should be doing anyway but this truly worked for us. From the beginning I explained this would not be a forever thing but only for a time until he became comfortable with copywork.

 

Just wanted to shared the thought!

 

Jennefer

[8filltheheart]

I agree about 5 being young. Part of the problem could be mental maturity. It is a skill to be able to take info and duplicate it. Tracing is a more appropriate skill for most Kers. You can take something SHORT and write it in highligher and than let them write overtop of the letters. It will accomplish the same goal of correct letter formation, etc without stressing them mentally if they aren't ready for transfering on their own.

 

All of my kids have had no problem with copywork, even my hyper-I don't want to do school-hurry up and be done kids. So, I would suspect that expectations might be playing a role.

 

We don't start copywork until first grade and even then I keep them very short and simple. A single short sentence at the beginning of the year and working toward longer sentences by the end of the yr.

[lighthouseacademy]

My son did minimal copywork until he turned 6. I did a little bit but it was too hard for him to go between a book and his paper or even paper to paper. He hated it- also it was slow going (BTW he only does cursive and I think it is just fine developmentally to teach first or early). We did spelling from SWR and he gained the confidence in letter formation. Then we started copywork. I found that if I put the words to copy, in my best cursive on the paper and he wrote below mine, it worked much better. Now he is graduating to no longer needing me to write it out for him and can go from book to paper (about 4 months of copywork). He now loves copywork.

[M in Canada]

Yepp I agree 5 can be young. Also, don't make them copy it twice and mae sure they are copying something they know how to read. At least that is what I do.

[Lovedtodeath]

In Public School Kindergarten they are having the kids copy what the teacher writes on a board. About 3 sentences. It is not unthinkable to ask it of a Kindergartner.

[dragons in the flower bed]

In Public School Kindergarten they are having the kids copy what the teacher writes on a board. About 3 sentences. It is not unthinkable to ask it of a Kindergartner.

 

Gads, none of the kindergartens around here have kids writing or reading three sentences worth yet. That said, I agree, it's not unthinkable; I wouldn't hesitate to ask it of a K'er. I'd hesitate to force it on a very reluctant K'er.

[8filltheheart]

In Public School Kindergarten they are having the kids copy what the teacher writes on a board. About 3 sentences. It is not unthinkable to ask it of a Kindergartner.

 

Unthinkable.......well, there are plenty of things they do in ps that are questionable. :)

 

While it may not qualify as "unthinkable," it certainly is not necessary. If it is overwhelming the child, it has very little educational value. Most kids do not have fits about being educated unless they don't understand or are stressed. Assignments should be about helping children succeed in developing skills---not attitudes.

 

Asking children that are learning to decode phonics and write properly to read words, spell them correctly, write the letters properly all simultaneously can be beyond the "mental" maturity of many 5 yr olds. There is no problem with that. The brain will eventually mature into the skill. Until it does, there is no reason to fight something that will occur naturally.

 

PS's can not customize to the needs of individual children. Parent's can. An assignment's objective should be evaluated in light of a child's ability and whether or not the skills required are appropriate. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree, it's not unthinkable; I wouldn't hesitate to ask it of a K'er. I'd hesitate to force it on a very reluctant K'er.

 

Unthinkable.......well, there are plenty of things they do in ps that are questionable. :)

 

While it may not qualify as "unthinkable," it certainly is not necessary. If it is overwhelming the child, it has very little educational value. Most kids do not have fits about being educated unless they don't understand or are stressed. Assignments should be about helping children succeed in developing skills---not attitudes.

 

PS's can not customize to the needs of individual children. Parent's can. An assignment's objective should be evaluated in light of a child's ability and whether or not the skills required are appropriate. :)

 

Very good points!:leaving::lol:

 

I did not want OP to feel bad for assigning it in the first place. My local PS K has them doing a lot of things that are not in the state requirements until first grade. But, they do not teach phonics in K. Their priorities are so well thought out!:blink:

[K&Rs Mom]

Thanks ladies for all the thoughts. :) This 5yo is reading at a late 5th grade level, and her printing is more than sufficient for all of the stories, lists, and maps she writes on her own, so I try not to compare her to outschool kindergartens. I don't think 2 lines of copywork (one traced) is too much for her, and when she wants to she gets it done in about 2 minutes. I think this is more a discipline/attitude issue than an academic/readiness issue, and I'm not sure what else to try. I do let her choose the topic or sentence to some degree, and I do write it on the top line for her to write underneath, as someone suggested above. I also have tried a couple pages from Happy Scribe eBooks, and it's about the same - big fight then gets it done quickly & neatly once it's clear that this is not optional.

[Lovedtodeath]

I have to fight with Emily when we do handwriting because that is when I insist she hold her pencil right. Other times I let it slide. Wondering if this could be a problem. I have some links on WHY we should hold our pencil correctly and I read them to her... now she fights it less. I can send them along if you think it may help.

 

She is the same way writing stories and letters constantly, and I have people warning me not to start writing curriculum or spelling. It is hard to know what to do.

[Kate in Arabia]

My 6 yr old really likes doing his copywork. I print out things from the internet and copy/paste on the same paper a picture to color or related maze. He likes to get through the copywork then do the activity.

[K&Rs Mom]

I have to fight with Emily when we do handwriting because that is when I insist she hold her pencil right. Other times I let it slide. Wondering if this could be a problem. I have some links on WHY we should hold our pencil correctly and I read them to her... now she fights it less. I can send them along if you think it may help.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I do have this problem with my younger (not doing copywork yet), but not with the older. I do notice that she's all over her chair, and sometimes insist she sit up straight with feet on the floor, but mostly I try to let it go as just a developmental stage. I know her writing would be better if she sat right, but I figure that will come later.

 

I think part of the problem is a touch of perfectionism. She gets really frustrated if something isn't perfect the first time, and isn't used to having to work at something. Most things do come easily to her, so I don't want to let this go - I want her to see that she can get better with practice. I do point out that her cursive is far better than most kids her age, but she still says it's not how she'd like it to be.

[8filltheheart]

Thanks ladies for all the thoughts. :) This 5yo is reading at a late 5th grade level, and her printing is more than sufficient for all of the stories, lists, and maps she writes on her own, so I try not to compare her to outschool kindergartens. I don't think 2 lines of copywork (one traced) is too much for her, and when she wants to she gets it done in about 2 minutes. I think this is more a discipline/attitude issue than an academic/readiness issue, and I'm not sure what else to try. I do let her choose the topic or sentence to some degree, and I do write it on the top line for her to write underneath, as someone suggested above. I also have tried a couple pages from Happy Scribe eBooks, and it's about the same - big fight then gets it done quickly & neatly once it's clear that this is not optional.

 

How you approach the issue is up to you; however, no matter where she is academically, physically she is 5.

 

If she is reading on a 5th grade level, is writing on her own, etc......what is the purpose behind 2 lines of copywork? Is there a specific educational objective? She is obviously beyond even 1st and 2nd grade work. Does she have to do more than be where she is?

 

I guess I am sympathetic toward your dd. :) Lots of yrs loom ahead for accomplishing educational objectives. Sometimes, just b/c a child is capable of doing something doesn't mean that they actually need to. Burnout or educational fatigue are very real issues for academically advanced kids. If a child is pushing themselves, that is a separate scenerio than when it is expected.

 

I burned out my oldest. He was capable of doing more, so I pushed him to do more. I have a hard time forgiving myself for not letting him simply be a little boy. Ultimately, it slowed him down. Really bright kids (my #2 and #4 are examples) actually thrive more when provided with opportunities vs. expectations of conforming.

 

I hope this doesn't sound overly harsh. I don't mean for it to. I am simply suggesting weighing the need. She will learn to write very easily if she is that academically advanced. There is probably no need for the assignments. I would give her lots of reading and blank story books, etc and then sort of follow her lead.

 

BTW.......it's easy for me to see this b/c I have older kids and know that 13 yrs is a long time for educational preparation. I made so many mistakes when I started. I really wish someone had told me that my little boy was a little boy.....not an educational goal. ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

momof7 that was wonderful advice and I am keeping it to read over in the future. Can't leave you any more good rep.

[dragons in the flower bed]

momof7 that was wonderful advice and I am keeping it to read over in the future. Can't leave you any more good rep.

 

I left her some for you. I agree. Copywork is intended to keep a child writing on grade level. If the child is, then copywork is redundant. If one assigns their child redundant tasks, it's natural for the child to buck.

[asher]

I agree w. the PPs about her being a little young to push copywork. (OT: Thank you momof7 I needed your post :001_wub:)

[choirfarm]

How you approach the issue is up to you; however, no matter where she is academically, physically she is 5.

 

If she is reading on a 5th grade level, is writing on her own, etc......what is the purpose behind 2 lines of copywork? Is there a specific educational objective? She is obviously beyond even 1st and 2nd grade work. Does she have to do more than be where she is?

 

I guess I am sympathetic toward your dd. :) Lots of yrs loom ahead for accomplishing educational objectives. Sometimes, just b/c a child is capable of doing something doesn't mean that they actually need to. Burnout or educational fatigue are very real issues for academically advanced kids. If a child is pushing themselves, that is a separate scenerio than when it is expected.

 

I burned out my oldest. He was capable of doing more, so I pushed him to do more. I have a hard time forgiving myself for not letting him simply be a little boy. Ultimately, it slowed him down. Really bright kids (my #2 and #4 are examples) actually thrive more when provided with opportunities vs. expectations of conforming.

 

I hope this doesn't sound overly harsh. I don't mean for it to. I am simply suggesting weighing the need. She will learn to write very easily if she is that academically advanced. There is probably no need for the assignments. I would give her lots of reading and blank story books, etc and then sort of follow her lead.

 

BTW.......it's easy for me to see this b/c I have older kids and know that 13 yrs is a long time for educational preparation. I made so many mistakes when I started. I really wish someone had told me that my little boy was a little boy.....not an educational goal. ;)

 

 

Amen. Amen. Amen PLEASE listen to this advice. PLEASE for your child's sake. Let her be 5!!!!! I can feel so much pressure for your child to live up to!!

 

Christine