s/o: Sonlight Changes

[*~Tina~*]

Someone please save me the headache of trying to decipher the new catalog!

 

Are they changing the IG's for the elementary levels? Or is it just the higher ones?

 

I was planning to get the Core 1+2 (4 day) with advanced readers. Am I correct in reading that with the name change the price is going from $366.99 up to $424.99??

 

Or wait, maybe is that because Bible is now included in the Core's again? I'm confused.

Edited March 22, 2011 by *~Tina~*

[Jennifer in MI]

Id like to know this too! I hadn't heard these rumors. But, I'll be ordering a Core for next year.

[DawnM]

Have you received your new catalog?

 

I haven't gotten one yet.

 

Dawn

[*~Tina~*]

Jennifer shared a link to the new catalog in another thread. . .

 

http://www.sonlight.com/online-catalog.html

 

I was comparing prices between that and my last paper catalog.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I haven't gotten my catalog either.

 

I'd be very disappointed if they put the Bible into all their cores, instead of removing them from high school cores! Quite the opposite of what I wanted them to do. :-(

 

Their Bible studies do not apply to us. And I'm not interested in spending money on those books just to get a core badge. Sigh

[Disney Dreaming]

I downloaded the catalog in PDF and the price of the 4 day B+C with 4+5 grade readers is $424.99. However, they have added CHOW and Usborne World History to the B+C History/Geography, and this price also includes Bible from Core C. HTH!

[*~Tina~*]

I downloaded the catalog in PDF and the price of the 4 day B+C with 4+5 grade readers is $424.99. However, they have added CHOW and Usborne World History to the B+C History/Geography, and this price also includes Bible from Core C. HTH!

 

Thank you so much!

 

Darn, I already have both of those, plus a few others, and didn't want their Bible part, so I think by the time I factor in the overlap, it wouldn't be worth it to get the new package at the additional cost. Ugh.

 

I'm guessing with the new additions, the IG is also changing (at least to add these items)?

 

I wonder how long the core will be available as they currently are?

 

I don't like the new catalog set up :tongue_smilie:

 

BTW - another change that was on a postcard they sent me is that they've added payment plan options with no fees or interests.

[*~Tina~*]

I took advantage of Live Chat to ask some questions and give feedback on the new catalog. . .here's the transcript for anyone who might have the same questions:

 

Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are currently 1 out of 1 in the queue. Approximate wait time is 0 minutes.

 

You are now chatting with 'Barbara'

 

Barbara: Welcome to Sonlight's instant Advisor chat service. How may I help you today?

 

Tina : I had a chance to look at the new catalog online and am so disappointed in the new format and some of the changes :(

 

Tina : Sorry, hit enter too soon. I was wondering. . .how long are the current cores going to remain available?

 

Barbara: Let me find out exactly. One moment please.

 

Barbara: You can order from the 2010 catalog until midnight 4/3 Mountain Time

 

Tina : Thank you. That's April 3, 2011, correct? Are all of the IG's being changed? If not, which of the lower levels will have changes? For example, I noticed Core B+C has additional book that Core 1+2 did not.

 

Barbara: Sonlight updates/upgrades their guides every year. At this point I do not have any more details to offer besides what is in the catalog. Yes, that is April 3, 2010 at midnight Mountain Time.

 

Tina : Thank you so much Barbara. Please pass on the feedback regarding the catalog. There's a lot of chatter about the format changes and the view is not positive. One of the main complaints being the lack of book descriptions. . .apparently folks really liked those. Also, the inclusion of Bible in the Cores, leaving no option there.

 

Barbara: Thank you, Tina. I will pass your feedback on to Sonlight.

 

Barbara: Is there anything else I can help you with today?

 

Tina : Yes, one more new thing that was on the postcard they sent was a note about payment plan options with no fees or interest. Where can I find more detail on this?

 

Barbara: One moment, let me get the link for you.

 

Barbara: the website is taking a little long on my end to load ... if you type in Time Payments in the search field on the top right of the website, the page will pop up. Basically, we offer 3, 6 and 9 month time payments right now, and they are offered during various times of the year.

 

Barbara: No fees, no interest.

 

Barbara: http://www.sonlight.com/timepayments.html

 

Tina : Thank you again Barbara. Have a great day!

[welovetoread]

I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you still have to buy the bible books. It is in the IG's however. Am I reading that wrong? Or is the Bible books now part of the core?

Chandi

[*~Tina~*]

I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you still have to buy the bible books. It is in the IG's however. Am I reading that wrong? Or is the Bible books now part of the core?

Chandi

 

In the new catalog, they way I read it, the core includes Bible.

 

 

 

Okay, I stopped to Live Chat with this and some additional questions. Transcript below:

 

Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are currently 1 out of 1 in the queue. Approximate wait time is 0 minutes.

 

You are now chatting with 'Brenda'

 

Brenda: Welcome to Sonlight's instant Advisor chat service. How may I help you today?

 

Tina : Are the prices for the individual IG's listed somewhere in the catalog? If so, can you tell me where? If not, can you tell me how much the Core BC IG will be? The link listed in the new catalog http://www.sonlight.com/core-bc is not working.

 

Tina : I'm looking in the new catalog via PDF.

 

Brenda: The prices for the individual Instructor's Guides are not listed in the catalog. They will be on the website when it is released to the public on April 4. We have not been told the new prices yet.

 

Tina : Is there a way to find out for me? I'm trying to decide if I want to order now or wait. I was told that on April 4th, it will be too late to order from the current catalog.

 

Brenda: At this time, you have all the same information that I've been given. I'm sorry about that.

 

Tina : Okay, please let Sonlight know that it's hard to make informed decisions with limited information.

 

Brenda: I'll be sure to let them know.

 

Tina : I'm wondering. . .why did they put the catalog up on the website if the links weren't going to work until April? And why did they leave out the IG prices?

 

Brenda: The website isn't ready yet, and the new website never goes live before Sonlight is ready to start taking orders. That part of the change is the same as usual. The new catalog only has prices on full packages.

 

Brenda: Is there anything else I can help you with today, Tina?

 

Tina : Okay, but WHY did they leave the IG prices out of the catalog this time? What was the logic behind this?

 

Brenda: Though we described each individual book in Core and Science packages in past catalogs, we realized this year we could do a better job of emphasizing the overall scope and purpose of each package.

 

Brenda: A Sonlight package is so much more than a box of great books. So this year I we described each Core and addressed questions such as: What can you expect when you use this Core? What makes it unique? What will your students gain from it?

 

Brenda: To make space for this in the print catalog, we removed the individual title descriptions there. But don't worry--they're all still here online. Find descriptions, trimester indications and pricing for individual titles by browsing for your curriculum < >. You can also enter a title or item number in the search field. If you would like, you can order individual titles by item number < >.

 

Brenda: This is what Judy posted on the Dear Sonlight forum.

 

Tina : I just had a live chat with Barbara and offered feedback on the catalog, because the chatter among those who have looked at it online is not good. People really like the book descriptions and they liked having the option to pick their own resources for Bible.

 

Brenda: The options will still be there on the website. Just be patient. When April 4 rolls around and you can see the complete picture, then you can make your final decisions about whether or not you like it.

 

Brenda: Would you like me to transfer you to Judy, the Customer Champion?

 

Tina : Still doesn't explain why they'd leave out the IG prices. When the cores include things that people don't want included, i.e. Bible, (and thus the price goes up) they are less likely to purchase an entire core. This is actually a comment that was made by another hser early today.

 

Tina : Yes, please feel free to tranfer me to Judy :)

 

Brenda: She'll be right with you.

Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Judy'.

You are now chatting with 'Judy'

 

Judy: Good afternoon Tina. Please give me one moment to review your chat with Brenda.

 

Judy: I do appreciate your feedback Tina. And yes, I am well aware of what folks are sharing on our forums. I review the comments regularly.

 

Judy: As Brenda already shared ... we chose to focus more on our packages this year and not on individual products, in our catalog.

 

Judy: The same detailed, per title information will be available on our website as it has always been.

 

Judy: I will be sure to share your feedback as well, as I compile to review with our management team.

 

Tina : I understand that it will be available on the website, my dilemna is that I was planning to order something that has now changed, and I don't have all the information I need to help me decide whether to order now from the current catalog or wait until the new version is out.

 

Tina : Btw - I wasn't referring to the Sonlight forum :)

 

Judy: I am truly sorry that you feel this presents a dilemma for you. We do release our upcoming catalog as a courtesy to our customers ... but as with most other publishers, we don't publish our new product line pricing in advance of its release.

 

Judy: As far as comments that folks are sharing elsewhere ... I'm always happy to hear from them. But I'm only aware of what folks share with me directly.

 

Tina : As far as I could tell, all the prices are all listed, with the exception of individual IG's. Is that right or did I miss something?

 

Tina : Why is Bible being included in the Cores with the changes?

 

Judy: We have, in the past, listed pricing for individual book titles. We chose not to do so this year.

 

Judy: I'm uncertain which Core you believe includes Bible materials?

 

Judy: All our Cores have always included scripture reading schedules and memory work.

 

Tina : Oh, I didn't catch that the individual book prices were listed. I used to like that as well. I particularly like when the website used to include your prices and Amazons. I found it very helpful to see the differences.

 

Judy: Cores B-F have optional, additional Bible materials available.

 

Judy: The individual pricing will still be available on our web site, as in the past.

 

Tina : In the new catalog, if I'm reading correctly, it states that the core includes Bible. Is this schedule wise only? Example copied from new catalog "Core W Includes Instructor's Guide W, History W, Bible W, Read-Alouds W, Readers W."

 

Judy: Core W is the equivalent of our current Core Alt 7. That particular Core has always had the optional Bible materials included. That is not a change for 2011.

 

Tina : I was just looking at the PDF catalog, it looks like each of them state that Bible is included just as the description I copied above.

 

Judy: No ... Cores B-H includes Bible (scheduled scripture reading and memory work) ... but the additional Bible study materials are optional. As was true in 2010.

 

Tina : Core D Includes Instructor's Guide D, History D, Bible D, Read Alouds D, and your choice of Readers

 

Tina : that was also a copy and paste. Is this an error in the catalog?

 

Judy: No ... that is correct. There is an asterisk after Bible D

 

Judy: and at the bottom of the page it explains that this is an additional Bible Study package you can add if you desire.

 

Judy: But that scripture reading and memory work is included in the Core IG.

 

Tina : Where do you see the aterisk and explanation? At the top of each page where it list the Core package, they state that they include the Bible package. The increased price on the B-C seemed adjusted from the price of 1+2 to include this as well.

 

Judy: I'm looking at page 50 of the 2011 catalog.

 

Tina : I think that's going to cause a lot of confusion. It does not say that on page 51 where it list the prices and what's included in the Core. It states the Bible D is included. So, as in the example of B-C vs. 1-2 what accounts for the vast price increase. (I'm comparing these with the advanced readers).

 

Tina : Not trying to give you a hard way here, just trying to plan my next year and figure this all out :)

 

Judy: I'm sorry that you find it to be confusing Tina. It does state that Bible is included in the Core, because it is. But it also states that additional Bible materials are available if desired.

 

Judy: If the change in price of Core B+C over Core 1+2 is concerning to you, you do have some time left in which to order the current Core.

 

Judy: Part of the increase in pricing is because the two required titles (CHOW and Usborne World History) are now included in the 2011 Core B+C package.

 

Judy: They are a required, but separate, purchase in the 2010 catalog.

 

Tina : Scripture and memorization notes being listed in the IG is not the same as when it actually states "Bible D" is included.

 

Judy: I have noted your comment and will be sure to share that with our team.

 

Tina : I did see the two new books, but it didn't equal the increase. Yes, I do know I can still order either way, thus all the questions to figure out which I might rather do.

 

Tina : Nothing further. Thank you Judy.

[Blueridge]

Tina, you've been busy today! :D

[DawnM]

Ok, I have looked through the catalog but honestly, I am going to have to wait for the paper version to really get the feel I need to compare.

 

We have most of what we need for next year (for the older two) other than some consumables, oh shoot, I hope they are still available!~

 

I will need to order an IG for my 2nd grader for next year and some consumables for him as well. Still haven't figured out exactly what I will do with him. I won't order a whole core.

 

Dawn

[stansclan89]

Ok, I have looked through the catalog but honestly, I am going to have to wait for the paper version to really get the feel I need to compare.

 

We have most of what we need for next year (for the older two) other than some consumables, oh shoot, I hope they are still available!~

 

I will need to order an IG for my 2nd grader for next year and some consumables for him as well. Still haven't figured out exactly what I will do with him. I won't order a whole core.

 

Dawn

 

Well, you certainly won't know what to do from the catalog. (Just got mine) There's just no info for people that already use Sonlight and know that they don't need the entire core.

[at the beach]

I got my catalog yesterday. Talk about strange. No prices for individual items? How is that going to help them make sales? It's a bad economy. Focusing on trying to get people to buy the whole shebang probably isn't the best approach. Giving people options to buy whatever they need, whether it's simply an IG or a few books or the whole core, would be a better business decision I think. Good grief, even if buying a whole core, who wants to do so when they don't break down prices for you? And now they want parents to go online to get the info they need? Then what good is that catalog if you can't even directly order from it?

 

Poor marketing decisions. Perhaps their motive is that SL needs to make more sales and is struggling. We have no idea of their financial health. But many companies are struggling in this economy, so I wouldn't be surprised that the economy has hit SL in a negative way. But making things more difficult for potential customers doesn't seem to be the answer. Giving less options instead of more seems the wrong way to go. I think they might have to look closer to home, like what can they do to cut costs on their end? Do they have too many employees? How about their offices? Have they expanded so much that they are now struggling to keep everything and everyone afloat? I think that may be why they are trying to get more people to buy whole cores. I don't think their tactics will work. I think they'll discover that soon enough.

 

Also, in bad economic times, revamping Core 100 and making the new price tag for it over $100 more than the old Core 100 doesn't seem like all that good a marketing decision. Same thing with Child's History of the World being included in Core 1/2. I bought Core 1/2 before. I already owned CHOW. I do not like buying books I have, especially not ones in the $30 range. And I agree that they should separate the Bible portion in every core, not force people into it.

 

They still have some great things going to bring in customers--time option payments and the Love to Learn Guarantee, the 10% discount, free shipping. If they decide to cut costs by taking those things away, I think they'd really feel a negative impact on their business.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Violet

[chicagoshannon]

If I were you I'd just order what you need now. From everything I've read on the Sonlight forums they havent' changed the IG at all except for changing it from a number to a letter. And I think they added some sort of cd with some extra activity suggestions that you can probably buy April 4th if you'd want that. I'm guessing that the extra cost above the added CHOW and encyclopedia.

[Margo out of lurking]

Sonlight is keeping in their tradition of making changes that are hugely unpopular with their (potential) customers. In my opinion, Sonlight has always made their catalog more difficult than it needs to be, so user-unfriendly.

 

A catalog without the prices? WHAT were they thinking this time?????? And the whole thing looks like an ad, not a catalog. :thumbdown:

[fairytalemama]

Tina, thanks for sharing the transcripts. I got my paper catalog a couple of days ago and I thought not including the book descriptions and individual prices was a HUGE mistake. The catalog seems to be about the same thickness as last year's with less content. *sigh*

[DawnM]

I got mine yesterday.....ICK! Yeah, you are right. No individual pricing is even listed!

 

ARGH!

 

Dawn

 

Well, you certainly won't know what to do from the catalog. (Just got mine) There's just no info for people that already use Sonlight and know that they don't need the entire core.

[stansclan89]

I got my catalog yesterday. Talk about strange. No prices for individual items? How is that going to help them make sales? It's a bad economy. Focusing on trying to get people to buy the whole shebang probably isn't the best approach.

 

I have up until now bought the IG new. I just like having a new one and it is helping out the company at least a little. Yesterday I bought a used IG for next year.

 

I was a bit offended by what they did. Their website is not the best to navigate and I didn't want to have to look up things individually on it instead of being able to see a lot at a glance on a printed page. They obviously didn't want my business with the way the set up the catalog. It is for new people and people that are buying entire cores. I can't afford to do that.

[Murphy101]

Tina, thanks for sharing the transcripts. I got my paper catalog a couple of days ago and I thought not including the book descriptions and individual prices was a HUGE mistake. The catalog seems to be about the same thickness as last year's with less content. *sigh*

 

:iagree:

 

I have always kept my catalog as a reference source as well as to decide any purchases.

 

I threw this one away after two days of being annoyed with it.

 

Guess I should thank them for saving me money this year.;)

[Jane Elliot]

Sonlight is keeping in their tradition of making changes that are hugely unpopular with their (potential) customers. In my opinion, Sonlight has always made their catalog more difficult than it needs to be, so user-unfriendly.

 

 

 

I don't use Sonlight, but I have used some of it in the past, and I own IG's and other products which I bought new from them. I have many times recommended it under certain circumstances to people who have asked me over the past 15 years.

 

However, yesterday after looking carefully over every page in the catalog, my head was spinning. I told dh that Sonlight seemed like a company bent on shooting itself in the foot over and over for the past few years. I will not even recommend it anymore. If I were new to Sonlight, and I looked through that overly complicated catalog, I would not think it boded well. I would think that if I couldn't even understand the catalog, how on earth would I understand the IG.

 

I'm sorry for them because I like their mission, but I can't see how several of the choices they've made lately will not harm their business.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Luann in ID

[*~Tina~*]

I got my catalog today. . .ugh, ugh, ugh. I used to LOVE sitting down with the one and am so disappointed in the format changes and the exclusions of individual pricing and IG pricing. Of course, what prices are in the book have increased, in some instances shockingly so! :glare: