Tell me about Tapestry of Grace?

[jenniferp8]

I've heard a lot of people mention TOG and I've done a little lurking on their website but would like to get feedback from others on this program...

 

It looks very comprehensive but also looks quite expensive as the IG (I prefer printed over digital edition) is over $200 and then you have to buy the resource books as well.

I have children in all age levels so would I be buying all the resource books? If not, how do I pick and choose without having the IG first?

 

The have a lot of additional supplements (maps, popquiz, writing etc). What are essential and what can you live without?

 

What additional subjects do I need to cover with another curriculum? Math?

 

Anyone, used this and/or sonlight? How do they compare - what do you like better? Which works better for multiple ages/large families? Which is less teacher intensive?

 

I think this program has a religious slant? Can you tell me what bible version it favors?

 

Any other feedback would be helpful! Thanks!

 

Thanks!!

Jennifer

[jenniferp8]

Oh, and one more thing...

Anything to watch out for if I try to buy used? Updated versions etc?

Thanks!

Jennifer

[jewel7123]

Oh, and one more thing...

Anything to watch out for if I try to buy used? Updated versions etc?

Thanks!

Jennifer

 

If you purchase used the main thing is to be SURE you are getting the Loom cd. I would use caution when purchasing used....just make sure you are purchasing from someone with good feedback, who's been on the board a long time, and make sure to get insurance and delivery confirmation.

 

Also check Homeschool Classifieds as they have feedback as well.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I've heard a lot of people mention TOG and I've done a little lurking on their website but would like to get feedback from others on this program...

 

It looks very comprehensive but also looks quite expensive as the IG (I prefer printed over digital edition) is over $200 and then you have to buy the resource books as well. Consider the cost to be for 4 -- levels AND teacher training and complete resources. You'll be guided toward Socratic Discussion and provided all the answers to all you'll need for all 4 levels. You're also not just purchasing history, but the Whole of Humanities for 12 years of schooling. If you break it down into subjects, you're really not paying much for So.Much. coverage.

I have children in all age levels so would I be buying all the resource books? No. Page 4 has the primary recs, which are all "in print" books. Page 5 is the Alternative List of suggestions. You do not need to buy anything from this list. You can interchange between pages 4 & 5 to compliment your personal or local library. If not, how do I pick and choose without having the IG first? You can use Bookshelf Central to a limited degree by searching for History: Core, Literature, Church History, etc. as separate subjects. Honestly, I find it easier to choose w/ the IG in hand.

 

The have a lot of additional supplements (maps, popquiz, writing etc). What are essential and what can you live without? You want the maps. Do you need a writing program or do you want writing assignments to coincide with history? If so, you want Map Aids. The Pop Quizzes make a nice auditory summary of the week for you or Dh. The Evaluations are a nice touch, but whether or not you need them is really reliant on your philosophy on tests. I have found them most beneficial in D and R.

 

What additional subjects do I need to cover with another curriculum? Math? Yes, Math. Science, grammar, phonics/reading instruction, any electives like Logic or foreign language. TOG will cover read aloud, assigned reading, history, philosophy, fine arts (music and art appreciation), hands on activities (for some this is "art"), church history (bible in some years: 1&parts of 2), geography, writing.

 

Anyone, used this and/or sonlight? How do they compare - what do you like better? Which works better for multiple ages/large families? Which is less teacher intensive? THere are several comparisons if you search TOG + Sonlight. SL requires multiple cores, so *I* find TOG is better for large families b/c you have 1-teacher resource from which to pull. I have found the term "teacher intensive" to be very subjective. *I* do not find TOG to be teacher intensive, while others think it's a lot of work. The difference will be a daily schedule is given w/ SL, while a weekly is offered w/ TOG so you decide and divide the week's assignments.

 

I think this program has a religious slant? Can you tell me what bible version it favors? No particular version favored, but the program is Protestant. The religious aspects are generally kept to the Teacher's Notes. Addition or removal of religious views has proven easy in our 5 years of use. We are Protestant, but not of the same variety as the Somervilles. It hasn't mattered to our family, at all, and has actually opened the opportunity for some great discussions on our faith in our home.

 

Any other feedback would be helpful! Thanks!

 

Thanks!!

Jennifer

My blog has some great helps and peeks into TOG. If you'll grab a cup of whatever and sit back to read, it should help a great deal.

[abacus2]

I will add Sonlight is Protestant and does not favor any particular Bible version.

[quetzal]

I have not used Sonlight, but from the research I have done it would be harder than TOG to use with many children at different levels--it is possible to combine children who are close in age and use a single core, but with children at many different levels you would probably have to use several cores at the same time. TOG was specifically designed for families with children at many different levels.

The program is written from a Protestant perspective, but there are Catholic and Orthodox Christians who use it as well. I don't think it would work well from a non-Christian perspective. I am LDS and find that other than occasional tweaking I don't have to worry to much about a slightly different religious perspective. Year 1 relies pretty heavily on Bible reading as part of history study, but you choose whichever translation/version your family prefers. There is a Worldview portion of the program, if your family's religious traditions are significantly different from those of the author this is where you will likely find the most material that needs to be tweaked. Alternatively, the worldview portion can be left out entirely. TOG is designed to be "tailored to fit"--there are a lot of options and resources offered, you are meant to choose among them not use all.

Have you tried the 3 week sample from their web site? Beyond that, I would recommend finding someone in your local area who is using the program and would let you look through it; I know it helps me a lot to hold something in my hands, turn the pages, etc. Alternatively, you could buy a single unit, check out the books from the library, and get a feel for whether this is really right for your family or not. I started by buying a used volume of the "Classic" version, and found I liked it so well I have now converted entirely.

[jenniferp8]

So can you give me an idea of the difference between the "classic" version and the new revised version? From what I have researched, the new version has a specific booklist that the worksheets and questions are based on. What else has changed or been added with the new versions?

 

Honestly, a whole new set of required books is really making it hard for me to make the jump. I like having the books at my house and not having to hunt them down from the library (we soon will be without a library) but with kids in 2-3 different levels, I would have to invest in a whole bunch of books all at once. I know it says that you can substitute books of your own choosing but would that make it so that I am re-inventing and doing a lot more of my own planning (thus defeating the purpose of having it all laid out neatly for me)? Would it make the activity and question sections of the IG unusable?

Thanks for the help!

[ktgrok]

I hated it. I thought I would love it. I loved it for about a month. Then it was just TOOOO much to fast for us. And honestly, although I am Christian I didn't want to spend weeks and weeks with no history other than the Bible. I really really prefer SOTW and wish I had started with it in the first place.

[Guest]

I hated it. I thought I would love it. I loved it for about a month. Then it was just TOOOO much to fast for us. And honestly, although I am Christian I didn't want to spend weeks and weeks with no history other than the Bible. I really really prefer SOTW and wish I had started with it in the first place.

 

TOG uses SOTW as an alternative resource for the UG level students. There's Bible history there also ;). We use both.

[rolandgill037]

Tapestry of Grace curriculum is an award-winning, classical homeschool curriculum that you can get excited about using with your homeschooled children! This rich homeschooling curriculum can be overwhelming so here is a lens to highlight some of the features of Tapestry of Grace. Whether you are an experienced homeschooler or new to the homeschoolers adventure, take a closer look at Tapestry of Grace.

[choirfarm]

Download a three week sample and USE it. See how you like it. I love TOG, but it isn't for everyone. I would use redesigned hands down.

 

Now, as far as resource books. DO NOT BUY ANY UNTIL YOU HAVE THE IG. Can I say it again: DO NOT BUY ANY UNTIL YOU HAVE THE IG.

 

I did the first year and I was really sorry. For lower grammar and upper grammar it is very possible to substitute books, get books from the library etc as there are no specific questions for them to answer. There are just fun projects and/or writing assignments. They give you ideas on how to combine resources as well. Basically, I sit down with the IG open and look through my books with what I can use and/or how I will combine. You can sometimes raise or lower a kid a level if you need to. You really need to buy the rhetoric books. The dialectic can be a little more flexible IF you are flexible with whether or not they can answer the questions. A few times I have had a different resource and I've warned my children: Find what you can as far as the answers go. This isn't the same book they told me to use. I won't penalize you. Just do the best you can.

 

Then what they can't get, I'll lecture. I love the teacher's notes and the flexibility. I love combining resources, using the alternates or ignoring the alternates altogether. I can use it according to my season in life and/or the kids interests. I've taken 2 weeks to do one week in TOG and done 3 weeks in 1. I love that it is mine to use and adjust and there is so much in there for me to use. But...that is what drives some people batty. They want Sonlight that tells them you must read these pages of this book and these pages from this book. ( Never could do that...)

 

Christine

[TXMary2]

I've heard a lot of people mention TOG and I've done a little lurking on their website but would like to get feedback from others on this program...

 

It looks very comprehensive but also looks quite expensive as the IG (I prefer printed over digital edition) is over $200 and then you have to buy the resource books as well. When you consider it is for all levels for 12 years, the price is phenomenal.

I have children in all age levels so would I be buying all the resource books? No. I didn't purchase any of the books until I had the IG in my hands. I use a mix of the main books and alternative. If not, how do I pick and choose without having the IG first? You can use Bookshelf Central, but there is no breakdown of which books to choose from on which weeks. That is why I choose the books when looking at the actual pages of the IG.

 

The have a lot of additional supplements (maps, popquiz, writing etc). What are essential and what can you live without?Maps are a must have for the geography. Unless you use a separate writing program then I highly suggest Writing Aids- especially because for $50 you get ALL writing assignments/instruction for ALL levels for 12 years!! GREAT BUY!

 

What additional subjects do I need to cover with another curriculum? Math? Definitely Math. TOG covers History, Geography, Literature, Writing, Church History, Philosophy, Government and Fine Arts (art and music). You will still need Math, Science, Grammar, Health and anything not covered on the above TOG list.

 

Anyone, used this and/or sonlight?SL lays out the schedule for you and tells you what to do on each day. TOG does not do that - you plan out your schedule using what I call the TOG Buffet. How do they compare - what do you like better?Hands down, I prefer TOG because of the choices I have and the fact that I can use with both of my kids at once when the are 8 grades apart in school! Which works better for multiple ages/large families?TOG Which is less teacher intensive?Probably SL, but only in the planning stage. I find TOG more teacher friendly because of the sheer amount of information it provides me. I feel better equipped for discussions, etc.

 

I think this program has a religious slant? Can you tell me what bible version it favors?I haven't noticed it favoring any particuluar Bible version, but it is Protestant.

 

Any other feedback would be helpful! Thanks! I would say don't get freaked out about the comments of people being overwhelmed by TOG - not everyone has to stay in what they call the FOG. I was a little intimidated before I decided on purchasing TOG, but once I had it and broke it down I found it very manageable. I can see that looking at it on a whole can get overwhelming, so I don't suggest that! Also, don't get it two weeks before you plan on starting it. Allow yourself plenty of time to study it and figure out how you want to do your scheduling, choosing books etc. I use the library for a lot of the books so I go through the list and mark all the books I can get at the library and all the books I need to purchase. Bottom line, TOG is a great investment, but if you are lookig for open and go it might not be for you.

 

Thanks!!

Jennifer

 

Hope that helps!

[siloam]

I will add Sonlight is Protestant and does not favor any particular Bible version.

The biggest difference between SL and TOG, for me, is the integration of topics. SL treats Bible as a different topic. TOG integrates all the topics and helps you see how the related to one another in history.

 

Heather

[siloam]

So can you give me an idea of the difference between the "classic" version and the new revised version? From what I have researched, the new version has a specific booklist that the worksheets and questions are based on. What else has changed or been added with the new versions?

 

Honestly, a whole new set of required books is really making it hard for me to make the jump. I like having the books at my house and not having to hunt them down from the library (we soon will be without a library) but with kids in 2-3 different levels, I would have to invest in a whole bunch of books all at once. I know it says that you can substitute books of your own choosing but would that make it so that I am re-inventing and doing a lot more of my own planning (thus defeating the purpose of having it all laid out neatly for me)? Would it make the activity and question sections of the IG unusable?

Thanks for the help!

You can use the books you have, it is just more work then because you have to schedule them.

 

The Classic was designed to be used with the Library. The spines sometimes overlapped between levels. The D level doesn't have as much discussion work. It was not color coded in the same way. You do have different colors for the sections. The schedule is yellow, the student activity pages are blue, the teacher notes are white. I honestly still haven't used Redesign I am still using classic. I was always one step ahead of the redesign, so I was stuck. :D

 

But the reason why I love TOG is different than many people. I have specific books I love and want to use MOH, Guerber, SOTW. I always re-wrote anything I did use: SL, WP. It was just easier to use TOG and have more pieces to choose from, given I was going to tweak it anyway. With TOG the vocab, timeline, mapping, literature, writing assignments, activities and such all still work because they are topic based and not book specific (well the literature is but I use TOG recommendations most of the time). That is a lot of work done for me. I just have to schedule in my books.

 

The discussion would be hit and miss. I expect to have to do some lecture on the fly and such because my texts won't cover what their first choice did. I haven't used them to date, but philosophically I am OK with that sort of on the fly change directions between lecture and discussion. It would work fine in our school environment.

 

Some people find classic difficult to follow, but I never had a problem with it.

 

Heather

[Guest]

The biggest difference between SL and TOG, for me, is the integration of topics. SL treats Bible as a different topic. TOG integrates all the topics and helps you see how the related to one another in history.

 

Heather

 

:iagree: TOG's approach works better in our house where that is concerned.

[Guest]

Download a three week sample and USE it. See how you like it. I love TOG, but it isn't for everyone. I would use redesigned hands down.

 

Now, as far as resource books. DO NOT BUY ANY UNTIL YOU HAVE THE IG. Can I say it again: DO NOT BUY ANY UNTIL YOU HAVE THE IG.

 

I did the first year and I was really sorry. For lower grammar and upper grammar it is very possible to substitute books, get books from the library etc as there are no specific questions for them to answer.

 

Very wise words :). I had the Year Plan and I still didn't do that and ended up buying all the books :tongue_smilie:. I just started going over the long list of books for Year 2 LG and am starting to pick and choose. Living in Canada the library is not very helpful but since we are Canadian I will be adding Canadian content also so will be taking books out due to that as well.

[Guest]

With TOG the vocab, timeline, mapping, literature, writing assignments, activities and such all still work because they are topic based and not book specific (well the literature is but I use TOG recommendations most of the time). That is a lot of work done for me. I just have to schedule in my books.

 

Yep, this (with TOG) works well for us here also. I like the flexibility. I was new to homeschooling when we started SL and only using it with a 4-6 year old (we used Cores P3/4 to K) but I still tweaked heavily. I don't need to do much of that anymore with TOG. It just fits my son's learning style better.

 

While we did go overboard and tried to do too much, it was not difficult to see it right away and make the proper adjustments to make it work for us. Those that are considering TOG need to remember what is always stressed about TOG. It is a buffet. You can't do it all. Trust me, I tried ;).

Edited March 15, 2011 by Guest

[johnandtinagilbert]

Yep, this (with TOG) works well for us here also. I like the flexibility. I was new to homeschooling when we started SL and only using it with a 4-6 year old (we used Cores P3/4 to K) but I still tweaked heavily. I don't need to do much of that anymore with TOG. It just fits my son's learning style better.

 

While we did go overboard and tried to do too much, it was not difficult to see it right away and make the proper adjustments to make it work for us. Those that are considering TOG need to remember what is always stressed about TOG. It is a buffet. You can't do it all. Trust me, I tried ;).

:iagree:I tried too and my dc were exasperated and frustrated. "Mom, why do I have to read these books, too? They tell me the same information." I was having them read both pages of the booklist. It got well beyond reinforcement and steadily became unnecessary repetition. Then I was like, "Oooooh, that's what they mean by buffet." Silly me. :tongue_smilie:

[Guest]

:iagree:I tried too and my dc were exasperated and frustrated. "Mom, why do I have to read these books, too? They tell me the same information." I was having them read both pages of the booklist. It got well beyond reinforcement and steadily became unnecessary repetition. Then I was like, "Oooooh, that's what they mean by buffet." Silly me. :tongue_smilie:

 

It is my understanding that even the primary list you pick through. I mean who can do 80 books in one year just for LG history? I won't even touch the cost :tongue_smilie:. SOTW is a keeper for us as a spine. Beyond that, I am looking at getting the literature books and RA's and the history books used for 4 weeks and up. Oh, and the activity books. That's what I am thinking for next year but I will be going week by week with my Year Plan checking out the books wherever I can find preview pages in order to make up my list. I am setting a $300 max on books for TOG. I set a figure in order to stop myself from getting carried away ;).

[WTMindy]

If you buy the TOG used (make sure it includes the Loom) you can get things quite a bit cheaper, with a little elbow grease and some upfront costs.

 

Here is what I do...

1. See which books our library has and make notes.

2. Any books that our library doesn't have I add to the "buy list"

3. I keep an eye on the TOG sale boards (now you can do this on Bookshelf Central, I understand). My goal is to purchase the books from 50%-75% of the new price. The great thing about the TOG books is that they hold their value so you can turn around and sell them for around the same price when you are finished with them. This does take some work, to shop and keep track of what you have and need, etc. I'm pretty much done with my buying for next year already because I've been doing it all year as I see books I need pop up.

[HiddenJewel]

There is a big difference between the Classic and the Redesigned. For me, the Redesigned is an easier format to follow and has way more teacher helps. I was using it the D/R levels.

[Honey Bee]

If you buy the TOG used (make sure it includes the Loom) you can get things quite a bit cheaper, with a little elbow grease and some upfront costs.

 

Here is what I do...

1. See which books our library has and make notes.

2. Any books that our library doesn't have I add to the "buy list"

3. I keep an eye on the TOG sale boards (now you can do this on Bookshelf Central, I understand). My goal is to purchase the books from 50%-75% of the new price. The great thing about the TOG books is that they hold their value so you can turn around and sell them for around the same price when you are finished with them. This does take some work, to shop and keep track of what you have and need, etc. I'm pretty much done with my buying for next year already because I've been doing it all year as I see books I need pop up.

 

What a great plan!

[Guest]

It depends on what you are comfortable with also. I don't buy used. That's just me. I don't resell so I want the books new to save for my kids :). The only used books I buy I get from our library for 10 cents and I get to look them over first, and even in this case I just buy books I normally would not spend the money to buy new. If they are keepers then I buy them new and I have purchased many books new after getting them from the library and seeing my son reading them over and over.

 

I also add Usborne Encyclopedias to the mix (we have quite a collection of the Internet Linked ones) and I will be getting the Kingfisher World History for next year also.

 

I am in Canada so I find very little at our library from the TOG list. I have tried. I can find some of the literature titles and will be checking those out first before buying (I am only going to invest on those I want to keep) but other than that I am having a really hard time finding especially the US history titles. Anyway, each situation is different so one really has to think and research after getting the Year Plan and before selecting the books to use.

[johnandtinagilbert]

It is my understanding that even the primary list you pick through. I mean who can do 80 books in one year just for LG history? I won't even touch the cost :tongue_smilie:. SOTW is a keeper for us as a spine. Beyond that, I am looking at getting the literature books and RA's and the history books used for 4 weeks and up. Oh, and the activity books. That's what I am thinking for next year but I will be going week by week with my Year Plan checking out the books wherever I can find preview pages in order to make up my list. I am setting a $300 max on books for TOG. I set a figure in order to stop myself from getting carried away ;).

Oh, yes. Feel free to pick through the primary list. We don't always do all the books on page 4, but sometimes we do...but that's b/c I've been a TOGger for a long time and I'm sort of an academic monster. My older dc get every elective they can from TOG!

[Crazyderiver]

It is my understanding that even the primary list you pick through. I mean who can do 80 books in one year just for LG history? I won't even touch the cost :tongue_smilie:. SOTW is a keeper for us as a spine. Beyond that, I am looking at getting the literature books and RA's and the history books used for 4 weeks and up. Oh, and the activity books. That's what I am thinking for next year but I will be going week by week with my Year Plan checking out the books wherever I can find preview pages in order to make up my list. I am setting a $300 max on books for TOG. I set a figure in order to stop myself from getting carried away ;).

 

You must be my twin. This is exactly what I do and almost my budget also! Anything else extra and I take a good trip to the library and pray for selection!

 

I love coming on the boards and finding encouragement and validation. This is just what I needed today! Thanks,

[Guest]

You must be my twin. This is exactly what I do and almost my budget also! Anything else extra and I take a good trip to the library and pray for selection!

 

I love coming on the boards and finding encouragement and validation. This is just what I needed today! Thanks,

 

It's good to find someone like minded :). I am still working on figuring this out, we only started this year. For Year 1 I bought all the books and the cost was around $300 so this was how I set my budget for TOG books for Year 2. There are 80 books for Year 2 LG on the primary list, valued close to $800. My understanding of the "pick and choose, you can't do it all" includes going through the books and picking and choosing what will work best for you so that you get what you need to cover out of them. Then you have the Worl Book entries that help also.

 

A SL Core (just the books) is about $300-$350 for that age group, so I think it is a very reasonable budget for books ;). I have my SOTW costs separate to the TOG books so this would be for the books above and beyond SOTW (book and AG). Also, I cannot wrap my brain around the idea that someone (especially with other kids to homeschool or toddlers running around) having the time to go through 80 books with the LG group. It wouldn't work in my household anyway and I only have two kiddos. We like reading other books of personal interest also so I wouldn't want to go through this amount of books just for history anyway. History is important in my house but LA, Math and Science take top priority. I think what we are doing for history at this age is more than enough ;).

[johnandtinagilbert]

It's good to find someone like minded :). I am still working on figuring this out, we only started this year. For Year 1 I bought all the books and the cost was around $300 so this was how I set my budget for TOG books for Year 2. There are 80 books for Year 2 LG on the primary list, valued close to $800. My understanding of the "pick and choose, you can't do it all" includes going through the books and picking and choosing what will work best for you so that you get what you need to cover out of them. Then you have the Worl Book entries that help also.

 

A SL Core (just the books) is about $300-$350 for that age group, so I think it is a very reasonable budget for books ;). I have my SOTW costs separate to the TOG books so this would be for the books above and beyond SOTW (book and AG). Also, I cannot wrap my brain around the idea that someone (especially with other kids to homeschool or toddlers running around) having the time to go through 80 books with the LG group. It wouldn't work in my household anyway and I only have two kiddos. We like reading other books of personal interest also so I wouldn't want to go through this amount of books just for history anyway. History is important in my house but LA, Math and Science take top priority. I think what we are doing for history at this age is more than enough ;).

I completely agree. You'll be sad if you go all out and do everything and work super hard and go super deep...only to find it was wasted b/c they only remember the highlights. I'd say from about 3rd or 4th grade and beyond, they remember much more. At least, that's been my experience with my first 4 dc.

[TracyP]

This was said but I didn't want it to be missed. Page 5 is ALTERNATIVES as in, if you don't have access to primary, want more depth in a particular topic, want to use a 'textbook', etc. I use page 5 to make a 'book basket'. Page 4 is PRIMARY as in the whole, complete program that is to be used as a buffet. I just pictured someone lurking here, thinking that BOTH pages were the program - they are not. When Marcia says you are not meant to do it all she is referring to page 4. Just wanted to make sure that was crystal clear.:001_smile:

[RobinF]

I agree don't buy any books until you buy the program.

 

This year I bought the DE, last year I bought the print. The price difference for me made it worthwhile and I like being able to print what I want/need.

 

After I purchased it I printed off the primary and secondary booklist for the year for each level I needed.

 

I used this booklist to check first the books that are used in many weeks. I looked at the weeks these books were used and to see if I was going to use the primary or secondary source books. SOTW is an alternate resource but it is one that we will use. So on weeks that I had to choose between SOTW and another source my choice was SOTW. So I knew I didn't need the primary book. I marked the books that I wanted for each level. I also marked books that I already had for that level.

 

If we have a book on Davy Crockett that is appropriate for UG, I see no reason to buy a specific book that is recommended. We use what we have and I make a note of the book that I am using.

 

Then I went to PBS and put my books on the wishlist. For three levels (D, UG and LG) I only have 150 books on my wishlist and at least 20 of those are not related to TOG. Then several of them are different versions on the same book. I would say that I have about 75 books on my wishlist that are for TOG. I realize that I won't get all of these books but so far I have recieved about 7 or 8 books and that is that many books I don't have to buy.

 

At the end of summer I will purchase books starting with those that are used in multiple weeks first. I will buy as far down my book list as my budget allows. I tried to balance my wishlist out between the levels. I plan on using TOG all the way through so we will go through all the levels again. I do buy fewer books in the LG level. The next time we do TOG year 2 my youngest will be in 4th grade so he will probably be using more UG resources.

 

Also because of where we are I don't use the library but if we were in an area with a good library I would definitely ck to see what books are in the library system. For me I would check for books that are used in one week. I wouldn't buy a book for the LG level that was used for one week (say something on Vikings) if I could find an appropriate book at the library. Instead I would spend my money on something that is used over multiple weeks.

[Guest]

I completely agree. You'll be sad if you go all out and do everything and work super hard and go super deep...only to find it was wasted b/c they only remember the highlights. I'd say from about 3rd or 4th grade and beyond, they remember much more. At least, that's been my experience with my first 4 dc.

 

Actually the work I put in to prepare for TOG will not change ;). It is the amount of books I am looking to change. I am looking to equip myself with the books that will give me the meat of the program without having to buy 80 books or spend the kind of money I would have to, for them. The work and time I invest on doing this is for my boys and to make me a more effective teacher for them. I can't think of a better program than TOG to do that with :).

 

This was said but I didn't want it to be missed. Page 5 is ALTERNATIVES as in, if you don't have access to primary, want more depth in a particular topic, want to use a 'textbook', etc. I use page 5 to make a 'book basket'. Page 4 is PRIMARY as in the whole, complete program that is to be used as a buffet. I just pictured someone lurking here, thinking that BOTH pages were the program - they are not. When Marcia says you are not meant to do it all she is referring to page 4. Just wanted to make sure that was crystal clear.:001_smile:

 

This is my understanding also but since we are new to TOG I did not want to be saying something that may be a misunderstanding on my part. I was hoping for someone to jump in and clarify this. Thank you for being that someone :D.

 

I love all the options and possibilities that TOG provides. There's a lot of thought, research and hard work put into it. I am so glad I found TOG from the beginning of our homeschool journey :).

[Guest]

I agree don't buy any books until you buy the program.

 

This year I bought the DE, last year I bought the print. The price difference for me made it worthwhile and I like being able to print what I want/need.

 

After I purchased it I printed off the primary and secondary booklist for the year for each level I needed.

 

I used this booklist to check first the books that are used in many weeks. I looked at the weeks these books were used and to see if I was going to use the primary or secondary source books. SOTW is an alternate resource but it is one that we will use. So on weeks that I had to choose between SOTW and another source my choice was SOTW. So I knew I didn't need the primary book. I marked the books that I wanted for each level. I also marked books that I already had for that level.

 

If we have a book on Davy Crockett that is appropriate for UG, I see no reason to buy a specific book that is recommended. We use what we have and I make a note of the book that I am using.

 

Then I went to PBS and put my books on the wishlist. For three levels (D, UG and LG) I only have 150 books on my wishlist and at least 20 of those are not related to TOG. Then several of them are different versions on the same book. I would say that I have about 75 books on my wishlist that are for TOG. I realize that I won't get all of these books but so far I have recieved about 7 or 8 books and that is that many books I don't have to buy.

 

At the end of summer I will purchase books starting with those that are used in multiple weeks first. I will buy as far down my book list as my budget allows. I tried to balance my wishlist out between the levels. I plan on using TOG all the way through so we will go through all the levels again. I do buy fewer books in the LG level. The next time we do TOG year 2 my youngest will be in 4th grade so he will probably be using more UG resources.

 

Also because of where we are I don't use the library but if we were in an area with a good library I would definitely ck to see what books are in the library system. For me I would check for books that are used in one week. I wouldn't buy a book for the LG level that was used for one week (say something on Vikings) if I could find an appropriate book at the library. Instead I would spend my money on something that is used over multiple weeks.

 

We have a very similar approach and are also using SOTW. I just found out I need to buy both Vol. 2 and 3 for Year 2 of TOG :lol:. So my expenses are going up by the minute.

 

What I changed to bold in your comments, is my way of thinking also. If the books I have do not cover the Vikings (using your example :)) I will find a book on the Vikings from the library. It doesn't have to be the same as the TOG recommended. It is expected and the way that TOG was set up, that we make the appropriate changes to suit our family situation. This is what makes TOG so unique.

[RobinF]

We have a very similar approach and are also using SOTW. I just found out I need to buy both Vol. 2 and 3 for Year 2 of TOG :lol:. So my expenses are going up by the minute.

 

What I changed to bold in your comments, is my way of thinking also. If the books I have do not cover the Vikings (using your example :)) I will find a book on the Vikings from the library. It doesn't have to be the same as the TOG recommended. It is expected and the way that TOG was set up, that we make the appropriate changes to suit our family situation. This is what makes TOG so unique.

 

I know I got lucky on SOTW when they were selling the older version of vol 2 I think for $5. I snatched it up so I already have it and just need to buy vol 3 for next year.

 

I also love the way TOG is set up. I can decide what books I want to buy and then substitute others where appropriate.

[Guest]

I know I got lucky on SOTW when they were selling the older version of vol 2 I think for $5. I snatched it up so I already have it and just need to buy vol 3 for next year.

 

I also love the way TOG is set up. I can decide what books I want to buy and then substitute others where appropriate.

 

I'm collecting the SOTW books as hardcover. It is my attempt to be a little wiser in my spending while buying books. Certain books I am willing to invest in and others I don't see the need if we will not get much use out of them (like some of the books that will only be used for a week ;)). There are some one week books that I will invest in but I will find alternatives for those that won't be touched again until my little guy is ready for TOG.

 

I was going to get the audio CD's too but now with the added cost for two books and AG's I will hold off. I will just add those in our second go around since I will have the books already. By then I will have Adrian read the books on his own and then he can listen to the CD's with his brother. I also find CHOW very appealing for this age group. I was set on CHOW since our SL days and now I am torn since I don't want Adrian to be past the age group by the time we get it. I may just go ahead and buy the book and give it to Adrian to read on his own time :tongue_smilie: he likes reading before going to bed and I have a hard time getting him to turn off the light these days. CHOW seems like something he would like too.

[RobinF]

I'm collecting the SOTW books as hardcover. It is my attempt to be a little wiser in my spending while buying books. Certain books I am willing to invest in and others I don't see the need if we will not get much use out of them (like some of the books that will only be used for a week ;)). There are some one week books that I will invest in but I will find alternatives for those that won't be touched again until my little guy is ready for TOG.

 

I was going to get the audio CD's too but now with the added cost for two books and AG's I will hold off. I will just add those in our second go around since I will have the books already. By then I will have Adrian read the books on his own and then he can listen to the CD's with his brother. I also find CHOW very appealing for this age group. I was set on CHOW since our SL days and now I am torn since I don't want Adrian to be past the age group by the time we get it. I may just go ahead and buy the book and give it to Adrian to read on his own time :tongue_smilie: he likes reading before going to bed and I have a hard time getting him to turn off the light these days. CHOW seems like something he would like too.

 

My older two boys are like this. One has already read through SOTW vol 2 on his own before bed.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I agree don't buy any books until you buy the program.

 

This year I bought the DE, last year I bought the print. The price difference for me made it worthwhile and I like being able to print what I want/need.

 

After I purchased it I printed off the primary and secondary booklist for the year for each level I needed.

 

I used this booklist to check first the books that are used in many weeks. I looked at the weeks these books were used and to see if I was going to use the primary or secondary source books. SOTW is an alternate resource but it is one that we will use. So on weeks that I had to choose between SOTW and another source my choice was SOTW. So I knew I didn't need the primary book. I marked the books that I wanted for each level. I also marked books that I already had for that level.

 

If we have a book on Davy Crockett that is appropriate for UG, I see no reason to buy a specific book that is recommended. We use what we have and I make a note of the book that I am using.

 

Then I went to PBS and put my books on the wishlist. For three levels (D, UG and LG) I only have 150 books on my wishlist and at least 20 of those are not related to TOG. Then several of them are different versions on the same book. I would say that I have about 75 books on my wishlist that are for TOG. I realize that I won't get all of these books but so far I have recieved about 7 or 8 books and that is that many books I don't have to buy.

 

At the end of summer I will purchase books starting with those that are used in multiple weeks first. I will buy as far down my book list as my budget allows. I tried to balance my wishlist out between the levels. I plan on using TOG all the way through so we will go through all the levels again. I do buy fewer books in the LG level. The next time we do TOG year 2 my youngest will be in 4th grade so he will probably be using more UG resources.

 

Also because of where we are I don't use the library but if we were in an area with a good library I would definitely ck to see what books are in the library system. For me I would check for books that are used in one week. I wouldn't buy a book for the LG level that was used for one week (say something on Vikings) if I could find an appropriate book at the library. Instead I would spend my money on something that is used over multiple weeks.

This is a good plan!

[Guest]

My older two boys are like this. One has already read through SOTW vol 2 on his own before bed.

 

It makes it so much easier to go through more books that way :). We read SOTW Vol 1 together this year but next year I want to have Adrian do most of the reading. Since we will be using it for TOG though I will keep it for our school time. We pick books together for his reading time and after I approve them he is free to read them as many times as he likes.

 

If he is reading SOTW at bedtime by the time we cycle through history again, I will just move onto something else to add to our TOG studies. Probably Mystery of History :). That's another one I have been considering but for now and given Adrian's age I don't want our school year to just have spine type books. I like the smaller books used between 4-5 weeks to change things up a bit and he still likes having pics, which is another reason why I like the Usborne book also (he likes the internet links with those too).

 

ETA: I think it is time I stopped my rambling though. I have gone way off topic here :tongue_smilie:. My apologies to the OP.

[RobinF]

It makes it so much easier to go through more books that way :). We read SOTW Vol 1 together this year but next year I want to have Adrian do most of the reading. Since we will be using it for TOG though I will keep it for our school time. We pick books together for his reading time and after I approve them he is free to read them as many times as he likes.

 

If he is reading SOTW at bedtime by the time we cycle through history again, I will just move onto something else to add to our TOG studies. Probably Mystery of History :). That's another one I have been considering but for now and given Adrian's age I don't want our school year to just have spine type books. I like the smaller books used between 4-5 weeks to change things up a bit and he still likes having pics, which is another reason why I like the Usborne book also (he likes the internet links with those too).

 

ETA: I think it is time I stopped my rambling though. I have gone way off topic here :tongue_smilie:. My apologies to the OP.

 

This year my oldest had already read SOTW so I added in the Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia for him to read and next year I am looking at adding Streams of Civilization for his spine, but he still prefers SOTW. I wish she had a middle school version and we definitely use it.

[jewel7123]

You might also look into A Picturesque Tale of Progress as another spine for Year 1.

[Guest]

This year my oldest had already read SOTW so I added in the Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia for him to read and next year I am looking at adding Streams of Civilization for his spine, but he still prefers SOTW. I wish she had a middle school version and we definitely use it.

 

Robin, as I recall the SOTW books were written to go into the middle grades when read independently. I am not sure where this information is in the PHP website, I'm sure it is somewhere, but Christianbook explains that they are also used for grades 5-8 when read independently. Here's a link to Vol. 2. You can see it in the comments:

 

http://www.christianbook.com/story-world-volume-two-middle-ages/susan-bauer/9781933339092/pd/339092?item_code=WW&netp_id=484767&event=ESRCN&view=details

 

As I recall SL uses SOTW in the middle grades also. Again to be read independently, which is what your oldest is doing already anyway. I understand though, when you have a voracious reader you need to add more ;). Have you added the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia? I am getting it for next year but will probably use it mostly for myself since it may still be a little much for Adrian. Streams of Civilization seems interesting also. Have you been able to check it out in person? It says grade 9 on Amazon. What are the other books TOG uses for Year 2 for the age group? I have only been checking out the LG so far (I still have a lot of work to do) but will be checking out the UG as well to see if I can add some to start transitioning Adrian. He will be 8 next year (end Oct B-day) so I am looking to see how I will do that now, before we start.

 

I know what you are saying though! I wish there was a second stage to the SOTW books. I really like them too. I am considering getting History of the Medieval World to read on my own time when we are doing Year 2 TOG next year but we shall see. My total has already hit close to the $2,500 mark for one child :banghead: and that doesn't even include an order I am placing next month or the audio lectures from the Somerville's and SWB that I want to get. I need to go over it again with a fine-toothed comb and cut back on certain things. I have Canadian books I want to get also and a big investment on science books etc. for science. Anyway, rambling again :lol:.

[RobinF]

Robin, as I recall the SOTW books were written to go into the middle grades when read independently. I am not sure where this information is in the PHP website, I'm sure it is somewhere, but Christianbook explains that they are also used for grades 5-8 when read independently. Here's a link to Vol. 2. You can see it in the comments:

 

http://www.christianbook.com/story-world-volume-two-middle-ages/susan-bauer/9781933339092/pd/339092?item_code=WW&netp_id=484767&event=ESRCN&view=details

 

As I recall SL uses SOTW in the middle grades also. Again to be read independently, which is what your oldest is doing already anyway. I understand though, when you have a voracious reader you need to add more ;). Have you added the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia? I am getting it for next year but will probably use it mostly for myself since it may still be a little much for Adrian. Streams of Civilization seems interesting also. Have you been able to check it out in person? It says grade 9 on Amazon. What are the other books TOG uses for Year 2 for the age group? I have only been checking out the LG so far (I still have a lot of work to do) but will be checking out the UG as well to see if I can add some to start transitioning Adrian. He will be 8 next year (end Oct B-day) so I am looking to see how I will do that now, before we start.

 

I know what you are saying though! I wish there was a second stage to the SOTW books. I really like them too. I am considering getting History of the Medieval World to read on my own time when we are doing Year 2 TOG next year but we shall see. My total has already hit close to the $2,500 mark for one child :banghead: and that doesn't even include an order I am placing next month or the audio lectures from the Somerville's and SWB that I want to get. I need to go over it again with a fine-toothed comb and cut back on certain things. I have Canadian books I want to get also and a big investment on science books etc. for science. Anyway, rambling again :lol:.

 

It is hard because both of my boys have/are reading SOTW independently in 3rd/4th grade. They are history buffs and I know that is part of the issue. I did buy one vol of Streams used and we will see how they like it. Also I will probably purchase another Usborne book and may look at the Kingfisher book, thanks for that recommendation.

 

I have my cost for all our still needed books to under $700 so I know what you mean. THat doesn't include any logic or foreign language which I would like for them to do along with some type of music.

[Guest]

It is hard because both of my boys have/are reading SOTW independently in 3rd/4th grade. They are history buffs and I know that is part of the issue. I did buy one vol of Streams used and we will see how they like it. Also I will probably purchase another Usborne book and may look at the Kingfisher book, thanks for that recommendation.

 

I hope you post how Streams is working for your family. I would love to hear :). Feel free to PM me if you remember.

 

The Kingfisher book seems meatier. There was an older edition that many on here prefer but for me here in Canada it would be next to impossible to get without paying a ton on shipping (it is out of print). I believe it is this one:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kingfisher-Illustrated-History-World-Present/dp/1856978621/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1300773173&sr=8-11

 

We are just going to get the one with the red cover.

 

I have my cost for all our still needed books to under $700 so I know what you mean. THat doesn't include any logic or foreign language which I would like for them to do along with some type of music.

 

My total includes music, art and the list goes on. It also includes foreign language, which is one of the reasons why our total has gone up so high. I have 3 levels of Rosetta Stone included in there but that will be for both my boys to use (and hopefully if we have another addition to the family) so this will be a one off, for Greek that is. I want to get French later also. For next year I also want to invest on a proper microscope and I have the Brock on my list (based on a recommendation from the forums here :)) so that is bringing the cost up also, plus several science books I want to add to our science programs as resources and some kits. It doesn't take long for the list to go up in cost :tongue_smilie:.

[mom@shiloh]

Jumping in here re: the Streams of Civilization question.....

 

I used it with a ninth grader years ago and have been looking it over again recently. My opinion would be that a younger child could certainly do the reading, but many of the options for extra reinforcement at the ends of the chapters may be difficult to implement with a younger child without significant parental help.

 

Jean

[RobinF]

My total includes music, art and the list goes on. It also includes foreign language, which is one of the reasons why our total has gone up so high. I have 3 levels of Rosetta Stone included in there but that will be for both my boys to use (and hopefully if we have another addition to the family) so this will be a one off, for Greek that is. I want to get French later also. For next year I also want to invest on a proper microscope and I have the Brock on my list (based on a recommendation from the forums here :)) so that is bringing the cost up also, plus several science books I want to add to our science programs as resources and some kits. It doesn't take long for the list to go up in cost :tongue_smilie:.

 

If I include music and foreign language my total would skyrocket. I do those incrementally which makes it easier for me to handle. :D

[RobinF]

Jumping in here re: the Streams of Civilization question.....

 

I used it with a ninth grader years ago and have been looking it over again recently. My opinion would be that a younger child could certainly do the reading, but many of the options for extra reinforcement at the ends of the chapters may be difficult to implement with a younger child without significant parental help.

 

Jean

 

Thanks, I don't think we will be doing the extra reinforcement but will use it for one of our spines.

[Guest]

If I include music and foreign language my total would skyrocket. I do those incrementally which makes it easier for me to handle. :D

 

:lol::lol: I need to know exactly what I will be spending ahead of time :tongue_smilie:. I am picky that way. I always make an Excel sheet with all my expenses in detail.

 

By the way, I wanted to caution those buying the Usborne Internet linked Encyclopedias. I was getting ready to order the Medieval World when I noticed from the table of contents that it appears to be a portion of the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History (which we already own). My library carries the Medieval World book so I just put it on hold to make sure. It looks like I may be saving a few bucks on that purchase :D.

[Guest]

Jumping in here re: the Streams of Civilization question.....

 

I used it with a ninth grader years ago and have been looking it over again recently. My opinion would be that a younger child could certainly do the reading, but many of the options for extra reinforcement at the ends of the chapters may be difficult to implement with a younger child without significant parental help.

 

Jean

 

Thank you for sharing this :)

[jewel7123]

 

By the way, I wanted to caution those buying the Usborne Internet linked Encyclopedias. I was getting ready to order the Medieval World when I noticed from the table of contents that it appears to be a portion of the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History (which we already own). My library carries the Medieval World book so I just put it on hold to make sure. It looks like I may be saving a few bucks on that purchase :D.

 

Hmm....that is interesting to know. Please let us know for sure once you confirm.

[Guest]

Hmm....that is interesting to know. Please let us know for sure once you confirm.

 

I always back my statements ;). I just put it on hold early this morning. When I get it, I am going to do a page by page comparison and post an update :). It seems very likely though since the titles all line up exactly.

[RobinF]

:lol::lol: I need to know exactly what I will be spending ahead of time :tongue_smilie:. I am picky that way. I always make an Excel sheet with all my expenses in detail.

 

By the way, I wanted to caution those buying the Usborne Internet linked Encyclopedias. I was getting ready to order the Medieval World when I noticed from the table of contents that it appears to be a portion of the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History (which we already own). My library carries the Medieval World book so I just put it on hold to make sure. It looks like I may be saving a few bucks on that purchase :D.

 

 

I need to look at that. I think we have the Ancient World not World History so there may not be as much overlap.

[Guest]

I need to look at that. I think we have the Ancient World not World History so there may not be as much overlap.

 

Those two are completely different, this is why I own both. I find the Ancient World meatier and I am not using it as much with my son this year. The World History is more at his level right now :).