Disrespectful

[jtcarter14]

I am at my wit's end. My dd (almost 9) dislikes being wrong so much that if I need to teach her or correct her about any subject, she is blatantly disrespectful and/or disobedient.

She has always been this way, but it seems to be getting worse. She doesn't do what I am telling her to do. She talks over me when I'm trying to explain something. She refuses to look or listen when I'm teaching. Her goal seems to be to just say, "I know, I know..." until I leave her alone.

I just don't see how I can teach her.

Please, tell me what I can do. :confused:

[Stellalarella]

Jessica, I am sending you a private message.

[Bug's Mom]

:bigear: This is going on here, too...with my almost-9 dd. Hmm.

[Testimony]

I thought that I was the only one when it was happening to me because both of my children did this to me.

 

I used a book called something about honor. It was from the Effective Parenting website. I wish that I could remember. My husband sat down with them when this occurred and made them apologize to me.

 

I hate that I cannot remember the book, but I do remember one of the books was called, "Say Good-bye, to Whining and Complaining." I hope that is the right title.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[wapiti]

I am at my wit's end. My dd (almost 9) dislikes being wrong so much that if I need to teach her or correct her about any subject, she is blatantly disrespectful and/or disobedient.

She has always been this way, but it seems to be getting worse. She doesn't do what I am telling her to do. She talks over me when I'm trying to explain something. She refuses to look or listen when I'm teaching. Her goal seems to be to just say, "I know, I know..." until I leave her alone.

I just don't see how I can teach her.

Please, tell me what I can do. :confused:

 

No advice, just :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:. Same here too, dd9-almost-10. She's finishing a math test (that took her like two days to do), and I am cringing at the thought of going over the problems that she got wrong. No matter how many times we discuss making mistakes, she feels really bad about herself when mistakes are pointed out to her, no matter what words I use, etc. She freaks out, and that often includes a large helping of disrespect, running and hiding, etc. :glare::tongue_smilie:

[lionfamily1999]

I stopped talking. Then, when the frustration drove him to tears and despair I asked if he was ready to listen. We talked about how he felt like I was treating him like a child and how rude and disrespectful his behavior toward me had been. I helped him with his lesson and explained why he needed to listen to me, not to guess, not to go off half cocked.

 

Now, I just raise both hands in the air, close my eyes and mouth and give him a moment to get a hold on himself.

 

Ime, any number that has to do with three is a bad number (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21... all of them are stinky stinky ages).

[mommyto4]

My ds8 is exactly the same way (he likes to run, hide, throw pencils, even has hit at me when I point out a mistake). I find Math lessons to be so hard because he cannot be wrong.

 

I walk away when he starts to get upset, and after he calms down, we try to look at the work again. My husband talks to him about this issue often. We also praise him constantly so that he feels positive about himself. We also talk about what is unacceptable behaviour when he is upset and have consequences for crossing the line.

 

You are not alone in this struggle!:grouphug:

[Hedgehog]

I am at my wit's end. My dd (almost 9) dislikes being wrong so much that if I need to teach her or correct her about any subject, she is blatantly disrespectful and/or disobedient.

She has always been this way, but it seems to be getting worse. She doesn't do what I am telling her to do. She talks over me when I'm trying to explain something. She refuses to look or listen when I'm teaching. Her goal seems to be to just say, "I know, I know..." until I leave her alone.

I just don't see how I can teach her.

Please, tell me what I can do. :confused:

 

DH and I have had a conversation with our two older DDS just this evening about this very problem. I don't know if it will have solved anything, so we'll see. Although from reading your post I will say that neither of them actually talk over either of us - at the moment, they are at the stage of disagreeing with us and contradicting us rudely.

 

So this evening.. we tried to get across to them a principle we hold to: that it is not appropriate or respectful to correct a person older or more experienced than yourself, even if they are in the wrong. There are ways to express that you have a different point of view, but an outright correction is not one of them. We said that something more gentle is appropriate - "that's interesting, I hadn't thought about it from that point of view. What is your opinion of [this]?"

 

Personally, I am becoming fed up with my girls arguing with me, which almost always happens when they ask me a question, I answer it, and then they immediately disagree with me. I told them that it is a waste of time to ask someone something, if you always come back at them with a flat disagreement or correction. In the end, the person concerned will not answer your original questions because it's a waste of breath. And the subject matter is usually quite trivial anyway.

 

For example, this evening, DD11 brought me a piece of cross stitch she has been working on, a Winnie the Pooh picture with her initial.

I said, "That looks really good, honey. You've worked hard at that. When I do cross stitch I make all my stitches go the same way because I think the end result looks more even; you might like to try that."

She came right back with - "no it doesn't. It's fine as it is." :001_huh:

I said, "Do you know what it looks like when you do all the stitches the same way?"

She began to look a bit silly, because this is her second piece of cross stitch and she's never tried doing it any other way but her own.

I said, "Honey, when I offer an opinion, or some advice, please don't contradict me like that, especially when you don't actually know. You have the right to choose to carry on doing it your way, if you wish; you just don't need to be rude about that choice. You could say, 'Thanks Mom, I'll think about it' or even 'Thanks Mom, but I like doing it this way' - neither of those are rude, and I don't mind you having a different opinion to me on the subject because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter one way or the other."

 

Work in progress eh.. and it sure makes you think about the way you talk to others, too!!

[Kidlit]

I used a book called something about honor. It was from the Effective Parenting website. I wish that I could remember. My husband sat down with them when this occurred and made them apologize to me.

 

I hate that I cannot remember the book, but I do remember one of the books was called, "Say Good-bye, to Whining and Complaining." I hope that is the right title.

 

Blessings,

Karen

www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

 

Is this the book?-- http://www.amazon.com/Goodbye-Whining-Complaining-Attitudes-Your/dp/0877883548/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1299618379&sr=8-1

 

I've read it, though it has been awhile. It discusses honor a good bit (in a Christian context).

[jtcarter14]

I read that book, too, last year. I read some of it aloud to my dc. Maybe we should go through it again.

Thank you all for the responses. It sure helps to know that I'm not alone. Keep them coming.

[Testimony]

Is this the book?-- http://www.amazon.com/Goodbye-Whining-Complaining-Attitudes-Your/dp/0877883548/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1299618379&sr=8-1

 

I've read it, though it has been awhile. It discusses honor a good bit (in a Christian context).

 

Yes, this is the one!

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[cjgrubbs]

My 10 ds is the same way. He doesn't want to actually read his math lesson before he starts the problems and then whines that he needs my help. Or if it is something that we haven't done in a while instead of going back several lessons in his book to look for the info and refresh his memory (what I refer to as "using your other resources first before you ask mom") he whines that he doesn't know how to do it. He is gifted mathematically according to previous SATs but when it is something new and he doesn't already know how to do it, he freaks out. I get so. very. tired.of. this. every. single. day. From there the rudeness starts. he says things like "You don't understand" and "you don't know how to explain things" etc. Unfortunately for him I made a perfect score on the math section of the ACT so I DO know and I worked as a tutor all through highschool so I CAN teach. It is just frustrating. This is our first year to homeschool and I really thought he was going to take off and do great bc he could move as fast as he wanted. I thought my younger son, age 7, would be the one to give me trouble b/c he is fun loving, hyper, etc. But has really done better than his big brother! I can handle my kids not understanding something or needing to work on it longer or repeat the lesson, but I can't not take rudeness, disrespect and negative talk. My 10 yr old thinks he needs to always have the last word. we have finally told him the only way he can have the last word is if it's to say "Yes ma'am." Otherwise he will just never let anything go.

 

Glad to hear we aren't the only ones struggling with this!

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I thought that I was the only one when it was happening to me because both of my children did this to me.

 

I used a book called something about honor. It was from the Effective Parenting website. I wish that I could remember. My husband sat down with them when this occurred and made them apologize to me.

 

I hate that I cannot remember the book, but I do remember one of the books was called, "Say Good-bye, to Whining and Complaining." I hope that is the right title.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

 

 

I've been looking at this book since I first saw it listed on the Easy Classical site. I think it's something we need at our house too.

[hsmom]

I am at my wit's end. My dd (almost 9) dislikes being wrong so much that if I need to teach her or correct her about any subject, she is blatantly disrespectful and/or disobedient.

She has always been this way, but it seems to be getting worse. She doesn't do what I am telling her to do. She talks over me when I'm trying to explain something. She refuses to look or listen when I'm teaching. Her goal seems to be to just say, "I know, I know..." until I leave her alone.

I just don't see how I can teach her.

Please, tell me what I can do. :confused:

 

That is my 6yr old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marsha617]

Yes, that's the title. You can also get an email sent every few days from them. It's biblicalparenting.com or .org maybe??

[nicholsonhomeschool]

I don't have any answers... But this sounds familiar. I try to step back when my son (7) starts in on the I'm-right-and-there's-no-way-I'm-not tact. I think that respect for an elder is very important, but when he gets in this mode I try to see why he is not open to correction at that particular moment.

 

Another hs mom once told me that we (hs parents) can be quite driven sometimes (guilty here) and want our child to do what we want when we want it. I don't think the child needs to run the show, but I do believe that there are times that they don't know how to say, "Mom, I hear what you are trying to tell me but I really need a break right now." So I try to avail my son to that vocabulary by saying, "It sounds like you are frustrated right now and we might try to find a better time for me to show you that you need help with..."

 

When I can step back and remember to do it, this seems to help. In any event, you are not alone!

[Halcyon]

we tried to get across to them a principle we hold to: that it is not appropriate or respectful to correct a person older or more experienced than yourself, even if they are in the wrong.

 

\i found myself agreeing with most of your post (mom to 8 yo ds here!!!) except for this section. I think it's fine, indeed encouraged, to disagree with an older when they are in the wrong. But it must be done in an agreeable and respectful way. My son has corrected my own mother a few times on her physics knowledge but he doesn't do it disrespectfully. Hey, older people make mistakes too! :D

[MusicMama]

I remember being 10 years old, and being insulted that I still qualified for a "kids" meal. Because, obviously, I was an adult. :tongue_smilie: I've heard it said that the need for autonomy peaks at that age, because that's the highest point where the need for independence, and the lack of ability to BE independent intersect. Make any sense? They feel like it is more important to be wrong on their own terms, than to be right on your terms! Teaching that age group can make you lose your hair! I really like a PP advice to step away from the problem and give them some space, I agree they aren't able to express that need in polite terms quite yet.

 

Give them as much space to do it their way, and make mistakes in a safe way. If it is not critical, don't correct. Kinda like with a three year old. Mis-matching socks isn't hazardous to her health, but the explosion at not be able to wear what she PICKED OUT HERSELF! might be. :)

 

For example, perhaps not mentioning the wrong-way cross-stiching would have been better for another PP. Let her bring those non-important problems to you if she wants help, and pick your battles. She will feel more in control of her life, and hopefully will be more willing to listen when you absolutely must step in and take control. HTH! :grouphug:

[MamaReads]

A couple tricks that help in my house are:

 

Point out when I make a mistake. Hey, we're all wrong sometimes and it helps my dd to see that I am still learning.

 

Allow my dd to self correct work when possible, that way there is less of a feeling of me pointing out her deficiencies.

 

And, as pp have mentioned, model the language that is appropriate in a given situation.

 

hth, and good luck!

[wapiti]

Hmmmm.... as a practical matter, specific to a subject where you (the general you - any of you!) have an answer key (such as math), would you allow such a dd to check her own work? (and then check it later yourself of course)

[JenninMN]

When that attitude peaked at my house, I switched to TT math and SOS LA. That way the computer told my daughter she was wrong, not me. And she knew she had to get 80% or rework. Not for everyone--I know. But it worked here.

[jtcarter14]

I would like to do that, but she is not very honest. I think she would usually erase well and just write the correct answer in. Then she would get out of having to rework the problem, study the word, learn the correct way to do it, etc.

[MerryAtHope]

Maybe what she's really saying is that she learns differently--maybe she has developed this because she either doesn't learn from what you say, or because she hates to ever be wrong, or has some other misunderstanding.

 

I would talk to her during a non-conflict time. Ask her how school is going, what's easy, what's hard, and why. then when she mentions her difficult subject, ask her what's difficult about it. Spend time really listening to what she says.

 

Also ask how she feels if she gets something wrong, or if you have to tell her something is wrong. Again, really listen at this point to what she is saying.

 

This all may take more than one conversation. Eventually you want to get to the point of expressing that when you try to help her, she does XYZ. And that can't continue, she has to show you respect. BUT, you are also willing to help her the way she needs to be helped--she needs to help you discover what that is.

 

In really listening to her, you are showing her respect as a person and that you care, you are building up relationship bridges--it's not her against you, it's both of you on the same side, trying to work towards a solution. By then setting the boundary lines--she needs to respect your authority, she may be able to come around.

 

There may be undiagnosed learning disabilities going on here, I would look into that as a possibility. Even mild ones that can be helped with different approaches often look like laziness and disrespect. Don't let the possibility scare you off from investigating--now is prime time to try to figure it out.

 

Just some thoughts. Merry :-)

[Katiebug_1976]

:grouphug::grouphug: Are you sure one of my kids isn't at your house?? I have 3 dc like this (15, 13 & 11) and my 8yo dd is picking it up as well. My kids are perfectionists and cant stand to be wrong or to "stoop to asking for hlep." It seems that they feel "stupid" (their word, not mine) if they have to ask for help. I have explained to them MANY times that the biggest part of learning is asking questions and that they are not expected to know anything from the beginning. But so far my words haven't seemed to make much difference. I wish I had the magic cure for this, but unfortunately I can only offer you encouragement and let you know that you are not alone. This is a very hard thing to work with! I just refuse to let them win.

[jtcarter14]

Katie, your dc really do sound *exactly* like my dd.

 

Merry, you sound like you really know your stuff! Thanks for that advice. I will talk to her and look into LD. Do you know of a website that could get me started? I am not familiar with LD at all. I think the issue is mainly perfectionism and disrespect though.

 

I told her earlier today that she is to respect me just like any other adult. (She's *very* respectful of all other adults!) I told her that when I'm showing her something, she needs to look, and when I'm talking to her she needs to listen without interrupting. I am happy to hear what she has to say if she'll just let me finish!

 

Thanks, everyone!

[fairytalemama]

I don't know how you feel about Waldorf education, but they have a lot to say about "the 9 year change". Here's a link to an article about it that may be helpful.

[wapiti]

I don't know how you feel about Waldorf education, but they have a lot to say about "the 9 year change". Here's a link to an article about it that may be helpful.

 

Thank you for this interesting article.

 

(In some ways, it seems my dd was born at 9 y.o. :glare:. But right this minute she's on a plane with DH to another continent for a learning adventure; I had no idea it would hurt this much to let her go :crying:)

[rafiki]

.

[kristamaranatha]

I have had the same problem with my 10-year-old in math, and I've been learning what works in our house:

 

1. My husband is the boss and will deal with any disrespect that is going on. He's also great at telling me if I'm the one who's overreacting.

 

2. Lots of encouragement. "Not understanding a problem or getting a question wrong does not say anything bad about you. It just means that we need to work on your method so that we make sure we are doing the problems right. You are a smart kid and I know you can do this. I've been watching you work out these problems and you show me you understand."

 

3. Never yell. Apologize if you do.

 

4. Take a time out. This is one of the best things to do. She is much more receptive after we've had a snack or meal, had some time to defuse and joke around a bit, and then get back to it. Then we're ready to work again. I'll gently explain the problem again, walk through two or three with her, and she'll usually get it right away and finish the rest with ease (and with a joyful instead of combative attitude!)

 

Hope this helps.

[MerryAtHope]

Merry, you sound like you really know your stuff! Thanks for that advice. I will talk to her and look into LD. Do you know of a website that could get me started? I am not familiar with LD at all. I think the issue is mainly perfectionism and disrespect though.

 

Well, and it may be! My knowledge mainly comes from years of learning about my son and the struggles we had, and realizing later on that many struggles were related to learning disabilities. Subtle things like not looking at what you are showing her can relate to vision processing issues for example. www.covd.org can tell you more about that and has a symptom list.

 

Perfectionism can be code for, "I don't want anyone to think I'm stupid. I don't want them to know that I really don't know something here." It can go along with a struggle that a child won't recognize as a legitimate struggle--she or he will just think there's some inadequacy within. The child realizes something seems easy for others but he or she really has to work at it--and they hide that fact. Kids with learning disabilities are working 10 times harder than the average kid just to keep up, and it's exhausting and frustrating to them.

 

That's just one possibility. Character issues are always good to explore. The fact that she is respectful to other adults and not you could mean many things--maybe it's a character issue, or maybe it's because you're the only one she feels safe enough around to let down her guard a little.

 

As to where to start looking...I don't know of a good all-around website. There was a really good post on here awhile back, I can't remember how to find it right now. If I come up with it, I'll post again.

 

A couple of books you could check into: The Mislabeled Child has good info on a variety of things from working memory and dyslexia to vision problems, auditory processing--it has examples, symptoms & some ideas to help. I like it as a reference.

 

Boundaries for Kids is one I haven't read yet but have heard that it's good for teasing out character vs. educational issues.

 

One thing you might do to start would be to just read on the special needs board, various posts on various things--see if anything sounds a bit familiar and read more on those topics. Also, journal the times when she has trouble--is it always the same subject that she gives you grief about? Or is there some common thread (like she misreads things in various subjects, or she forgets instructions that involve more than one step, or....) Sometimes journaling can help you come up with common threads to pursue. You could put them together and ask on the SN board, "does this sound like a learning issue to you, or something other than a character issue, and what could it be?" There's a wealth of knowledge there.

 

And one of your best tools is really asking your child questions and listening. Become a student of your child--how does this child think, how does she learn? What is hard for her, and can she express why it's hard for her?

 

When my son was 7, we were really struggling with Math. I was using Miquon--a discovery-based program, and he hated it. One day I showed him a different math book for his age, one that had pictures that showed a visual to how to figure out a problem. He took one look, picked up his old book and said, "the writers of this book don't want children to understand math."

 

This started a journey for me of really learning how to understand my child and know him.

 

Now...I didn't let him yell, talk over me etc... I sent him to his room & told him to come back when he was ready to ask for forgiveness. Sometimes it took awhile. I would pray for him during that time, and for me--for patience, for wisdom, for different approaches that might help him (because I recognized some things worked & some didn't...).

 

I also used the concept of a self-control tool-box. What is a right way to express frustration & what is a wrong way? (And I examined my own reactions--because if I'm late & have lost my keys, I'm not a model example of how to deal with frustration! So...I had to learn some self-control here as well). We talked about ways to express it--asking for a break, getting a drink of water, walking around or doing some exercise for 5-10 minutes, going to the bathroom, lying down for a few minutes, praying etc.... Things like yelling, being rude, throwing the pencil across the room are not the right ways to deal with frustration.

 

In my son's case, he had a big misunderstanding about what it meant if he made a mistake or didn't understand something--he thought this was a big deal and I had to work long and hard to prove to him it wasn't (and that also meant watching carefully how I reacted--even a facial grimace to hide my internal thought of, "can he be struggling with this STILL?" was seen and reacted to by him).

 

Well, hope this gives you some places to start! Merry :-)