Parents of kids in competitive sport, your input please

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

My DD is a gymnast. She switched last summer from a relaxed gym to a more competitive gym (it was her choice, she wants to perform better). Her hours are now 20 hours per week, instead of 14 at the previous gym.

 

At the last qualifier, she came in first from her new gym (not first overall though). She was 9th over 67 gymnasts in her category. The head coach was surprised, since at the first qualifier, she was last from her gym (she was also sick and on antibiotics, and I was in hospital having surgery). Anyway, since then, the head coach has been on her back, pushing her a lot harder than anything she's been exposed to in her life.

 

Today DD refused to go to training. She had silent tears and was pleading me not to bring her to the gym. She's scared of her head coach. Said head coach is known to be very demanding, and very hard on her gymnast. However, she is not DD's regular coach. It goes well with the regular coach. Head coach involvment is limited to Mondays. I didn't bring her to the gym.

 

I know gym is known to be a harsh sport, where little girls are pushed hard. My DD is not heading to the Olympics, she's not even at national level. And she doesn't want to be. Gym is just for fun. She does want to perform well, but she's not a champion.

 

Where is the limit between a demanding coaching and child abuse?

[MamaT]

My 11yo dd is also a competitive gymnast. She is at a very competitive gym 25 hours per week. The head coach, who has coached at the Olympic level, is very hard on the girls - but in a loving way. I don't know if that makes sense or not. All the girls love him and want to work hard to please him. I would not let my daughter be coached by someone she was afraid of. That is not the right incentive to work hard IMO.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My DD is a gymnast. She switched last summer from a relaxed gym to a more competitive gym (it was her choice, she wants to perform better). Her hours are now 20 hours per week, instead of 14 at the previous gym.

 

At the last qualifier, she came in first from her new gym (not first overall though). She was 9th over 67 gymnasts in her category. The head coach was surprised, since at the first qualifier, she was last from her gym (she was also sick and on antibiotics, and I was in hospital having surgery). Anyway, since then, the head coach has been on her back, pushing her a lot harder than anything she's been exposed to in her life.

 

Today DD refused to go to training. She had silent tears and was pleading me not to bring her to the gym. She's scared of her head coach. Said head coach is known to be very demanding, and very hard on her gymnast. However, she is not DD's regular coach. It goes well with the regular coach. Head coach involvment is limited to Mondays. I didn't bring her to the gym.

 

I know gym is known to be a harsh sport, where little girls are pushed hard. My DD is not heading to the Olympics, she's not even at national level. And she doesn't want to be. Gym is just for fun. She does want to perform well, but she's not a champion.

 

Where is the limit between a demanding coaching and child abuse?

 

Child abuse would be shouting obscenities at her and belittling her. It isn't pushing her hard the way I've seen the coaches do at our gym and I would suspect most competitive gyms.

 

Having said that, a coach needs to be aware of how to motivate a gymnast to do their best - for some, it is by pushing, for others it is by another method. It's hard to tell - my dd usually pushes herself harder than any coach can. It's best to motivate her by encouragement because she does the pushing on her own. But I've seen others who need the push.

[PiCO]

Today DD refused to go to training. She had silent tears and was pleading me not to bring her to the gym. She's scared of her head coach. Said head coach is known to be very demanding, and very hard on her gymnast. However, she is not DD's regular coach. It goes well with the regular coach. Head coach involvment is limited to Mondays. I didn't bring her to the gym.

 

I know gym is known to be a harsh sport, where little girls are pushed hard. My DD is not heading to the Olympics, she's not even at national level. And she doesn't want to be. Gym is just for fun. She does want to perform well, but she's not a champion.

 

Where is the limit between a demanding coaching and child abuse?

 

Schedule a meeting with the coaches and let them know what is going on. Sometimes a coach will see all this potential, and want to help a child reach it. They don't realize the child can take this as being picked on.

 

My guess is that the coach will feel bad that your daughter doesn't want to go to practice on Mondays, and will back off a bit, and hopefully change her style with your dd.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

DD has no problem with her regular coach. And that coach is 'good enough' by my standards. She did succeed in getting my daughter to 'head of the class'. The problem is with the head coach, who now has DD on her radar.

 

Normally the head coach deals with the nationals or pre-nationals. DD is neither. However by progressing so much so fast, she seems to now be fast-tracked, but she doesn't want to be!

[roxanne23]

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Edited January 4, 2023 by roxanne23

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Child abuse would be shouting obscenities at her and belittling her. It isn't pushing her hard the way I've seen the coaches do at our gym and I would suspect most competitive gyms.

 

 

I would have said the same thing, until now. When a child is *scared* to go to the gym, isn't that a bad sign? And there's belittling going on, kids being told "you s*ck", coaches saying they don't care...

 

And there's also the other side, big hugs, big cheering, yes from the same coaches. DD's regular coach does not belittle the girls, but she is very demanding. I highly respect her regular coach.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Listen to your instincts. The fact that you suspect child abuse is enough to convince me that you should meet with the head coach and discuss your concerns.

 

You know, it's weird. I've known the coaches were hard. I've seen how they treat some of the girls. One was left on the beam for 2 hours until she caved in and tried a move she was afraid of. She cried for the 2 hours. I understand that the coach has to win. (the girl was very capable and aced the move, she was just afraid) But now that it's my child on the receiving end, I'm not so 'zen' anymore...

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would have said the same thing, until now. When a child is *scared* to go to the gym, isn't that a bad sign? And there's belittling going on, kids being told "you s*ck", coaches saying they don't care...

 

And there's also the other side, big hugs, big cheering, yes from the same coaches. DD's regular coach does not belittle the girls, but she is very demanding. I highly respect her regular coach.

 

Dd did shut down at one time - she was being pushed too hard, too fast. It wasn't abuse in her case, she just didn't have the capacity for it. I explained that to the coaches and we backed off for a year. They did not understand (I could tell it in their eyes) but they respected me and my dd's needs.

 

I do not like the sound of being told that "you s*ck". Pushing at our gym is more on the lines of saying "Come on, you can do one more time." "I've seen you do better. Let's try it again." And then the big hugs, big cheering when they do it.

[PiCO]

You know, it's weird. I've known the coaches were hard. I've seen how they treat some of the girls. One was left on the beam for 2 hours until she caved in and tried a move she was afraid of. She cried for the 2 hours. I understand that the coach has to win. (the girl was very capable and aced the move, she was just afraid) But now that it's my child on the receiving end, I'm not so 'zen' anymore...

 

I don't think leaving a high level athlete alone for 2 hours until she did a move that she was clearly capapble of is abuse. I would be concerned if she was belittled, yelled at, or denied water/bathroom access for that 2 hours (all of which I have heard of...) I would be concerned if they did this with a 10-yo.

 

BUT- it shouldn't be about the coach "winning". The coach, athlete, and parent need to work together so the athlete can "win." I would recommend staying away from a coach who is in it to make themselves look good.

 

There is a line, and it's crossed all too often by gymnastics coaches. But a good coach will want feedback from parents, so they can figure how to get the best work and progress out of each child, without crossing any lines.

[Danestress]

I think from a coach's perspective, it says something when someone is willing to train 20 hours a week, and her parents are willing to pay for it and get her there.

 

I think what it says is "we are feeling ambitious about this."

 

If, in fact, this is mostly for fun and you are not willing to have your daughter pushed hard, you need to be very clear about that. You are the one who is making a major financial and time commitment, and the gym is a business but is also making a commitment to her. If they don't want girls who are there for fun, they can talk to you about that. Most likely, though, they will adjust the training to suit your goals - or they should.

 

I think that any time your child is spending that much time under someone's leadership, there has to be very very clear communication. My son trains for tennis that way, and I feel like his coaches (there are two) and I need to be on the same page. They need to know when he's got an Algebra test, when he's got sore abs, when he's feeling crabby or lazy. I need to know that they are training him to be a good person, not just a good tennis player. There is a lot of talk and a lot of transparency, and I could not allow it otherwise.

 

If you are putting that much effort into this, you should be able to sit down in the coach's office and say, "we have to talk." There is really no other way to make it acceptable. When a child is training with an organization 20 hours a week, they are partly the people who are raising her and they are partly a family to her. If they are not on your "team" in terms of goals, it's no good at all. Talk to them. Honestly. Put it right out on the table. Tell them what she is saying. Get her involved in the discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My DD is a gymnast. She switched last summer from a relaxed gym to a more competitive gym (it was her choice, she wants to perform better). Her hours are now 20 hours per week, instead of 14 at the previous gym.

 

At the last qualifier, she came in first from her new gym (not first overall though). She was 9th over 67 gymnasts in her category. The head coach was surprised, since at the first qualifier, she was last from her gym (she was also sick and on antibiotics, and I was in hospital having surgery). Anyway, since then, the head coach has been on her back, pushing her a lot harder than anything she's been exposed to in her life.

 

Today DD refused to go to training. She had silent tears and was pleading me not to bring her to the gym. She's scared of her head coach. Said head coach is known to be very demanding, and very hard on her gymnast. However, she is not DD's regular coach. It goes well with the regular coach. Head coach involvment is limited to Mondays. I didn't bring her to the gym.

 

I know gym is known to be a harsh sport, where little girls are pushed hard. My DD is not heading to the Olympics, she's not even at national level. And she doesn't want to be. Gym is just for fun. She does want to perform well, but she's not a champion.

 

Where is the limit between a demanding coaching and child abuse?

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I would be concerned if they did this with a 10-yo.

 

 

A 6yo was left for 2 hours until she climbed a rope on her own. The one on beam was a 7yo, I think, maybe 8. Definitely younger than 10. Not a high level athlete at all, although she's being pushed onto a high level track eventually. These haven't been done to my DD.

In her case, it was 'do this move until your knees aren't bent', till she cried... (the move was long kip btw)

[PiCO]

I would have said the same thing, until now. When a child is *scared* to go to the gym, isn't that a bad sign?

 

A child can be scared to go to the gym because of a misunderstanding also. The only way to figure this out is to talk to your dd & the coaches extensively. But it is worth figuring out all sides of the issue.

 

And there's belittling going on, kids being told "you s*ck", coaches saying they don't care...

 

I would not put up with this from dd's coaches. I don't like the word s*ck at ALL, but even if the language is ok with you, the coach should not be telling the athlete they s*ck, but telling then the skill they just did s*cked.

[Tap]

Okay, so I didn't handle it the best when I was confronted with this problem. LOL Ds had the same coach for a few years. HE was a hard a@@ coach and ds liked him a lot. One day, he crossed the line. I called him up, chewed him a new one, and pulled ds from the team. He called me a few days later, apologized to me and to ds, admitted his poor choice of words and asked ds back. Ds chose to go back. I apologized too, to both of them for how I handled it as well.

 

I do not recommend this method of handling it.

 

 

 

 

BUT, from this, came a conversation that allowed the coach to see that some kids, need a kind word once in a while. Not even at every practice, but once a month would be great! He also was forgetting that coaching is all about correction. correction, correction. If correction turns in to belittling, name calling, and derogatory remarks...it is not longer coaching...it is bullying. While some kids can ignore the behavior, not all do and it can be carried with them for a long time. If you coach is saying inappropriate things: I woud talk to the coach and remind him that what he says, may mean very little to him, it means A LOT to the kids and he should choose his words more carefully. I assume the coach has a vocabulary and a basic education, I would expect them to use it.

 

If it is just that he has high expectations and your daughter doesn't feel like she can meet those goals, I would keep her out on Monday or tell her that she is just going to have to make mental adjustments when she needs too. Ds used to do this. After practice, I would ask if coach said anything negative to ds (this was long before the blowup), and if he hadn't we would high-five and count that as an awsome swim day. With his coach, if you were not doing anything wrong, he would ignore you. Being ignored during a practice turned into an AWSOME day! When he did give ds correction, we would talk about the corrections and I would ask ds "did you need correction, did his advice help?" and ds would inevitably say 'yes'. Then we would discuss whether the correction was useful and that seemed to take the sting out of it. There were often goals that ds couldn't meet. But, that was the point. The coaches needed something for the kids to achieve! Something to push for. After having a coach with high goals, when ds went to the less competitive high school team, he found that coach too easy, because his goals were too low! LOL

[PiCO]

A 6yo was left for 2 hours until she climbed a rope on her own. The one on beam was a 7yo, I think, maybe 8. Definitely younger than 10. Not a high level athlete at all, although she's being pushed onto a high level track eventually. These haven't been done to my DD.

In her case, it was 'do this move until your knees aren't bent', till she cried... (the move was long kip btw)

 

NOT OK. I have been involved with gymnastics my whole life, and I know that this kind of thing goes on, but it's not OK to subject kids this young to this treatment. It's an unnecessary scare tactic for the entire team, and it does not help in the long run.

 

I don't want my dd to do skills because she's more afraid of the coach than the skill, I expect coaches to reduce the fear as much as possible. If my dd still won't do the skill, she's obviously not (mentally) ready for it yet. Fear is not a healthy motivator.

[My3Monkeys]

 

I know gym is known to be a harsh sport, where little girls are pushed hard. My DD is not heading to the Olympics, she's not even at national level. And she doesn't want to be. Gym is just for fun. She does want to perform well, but she's not a champion.

 

Where is the limit between a demanding coaching and child abuse?

 

I think that is key - gym is for fun and she doesn't have any desire to head to elite competition. I think a meeting with this coach would be best. She may be seeing talent in your daughter that she wants to make the most of, but if your daughter doesn't share those goals, then she is just going to make her miserable. Not every kid meshes with every coach but maybe a meeting will help them to get on the same page.

 

That being said, I would have major problems with a coach saying a kid sucked or any other similar comments during practice time.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I would not put up with this from dd's coaches. I don't like the word s*ck at ALL, but even if the language is ok with you, the coach should not be telling the athlete they s*ck, but telling then the skill they just did s*cked.

 

We live in a bilingual society - even the gym is bilingual. The team is exactly 50/50... This has a weird impact on swearing. Words that are big swear words elsewhere are very mild here. For example, the F word is no big deal. It's synonymous with 'weird' or 'broken'. Not much else. So yeah, you s*ck isn't that bad over here.

 

There is no yelling at a child. There's yelling sometimes, but in normal conditions. If the coach is at the vault, and wants to tell the child something, she will yell. But it's not yelling *at* the child. It's only to be understood. However sometimes a child will feel she's being yelled at.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We live in a bilingual society - even the gym is bilingual. The team is exactly 50/50... This has a weird impact on swearing. Words that are big swear words elsewhere are very mild here. For example, the F word is no big deal. It's synonymous with 'weird' or 'broken'. Not much else. So yeah, you s*ck isn't that bad over here.

 

There is no yelling at a child. There's yelling sometimes, but in normal conditions. If the coach is at the vault, and wants to tell the child something, she will yell. But it's not yelling *at* the child. It's only to be understood. However sometimes a child will feel she's being yelled at.

 

Well, that puts a different spin on it. Here "you suck" is saying that you are worthless. I wouldn't want my child to hear that or to be motivated by that.

[My3Monkeys]

A 6yo was left for 2 hours until she climbed a rope on her own. The one on beam was a 7yo, I think, maybe 8. Definitely younger than 10. Not a high level athlete at all, although she's being pushed onto a high level track eventually. These haven't been done to my DD.

In her case, it was 'do this move until your knees aren't bent', till she cried... (the move was long kip btw)

 

I'm changing my answer - I don't think this gym is ok at all. I know this sort of thing happens in gymnastics but it WOULD NOT be happening to my child. This makes me glad that dd quit before she moved into anything more than the baby team.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Well, that puts a different spin on it. Here "you suck" is saying that you are worthless. I wouldn't want my child to hear that or to be motivated by that.

 

Here it means more 'you really didn't do well'

[Mom22ns]

I'm changing my answer - I don't think this gym is ok at all. I know this sort of thing happens in gymnastics but it WOULD NOT be happening to my child. This makes me glad that dd quit before she moved into anything more than the baby team.

 

:iagree:

Dd is a competitive gymnast as well. I would never tolerate that treatment for her or her teammates. Our gym is not the best in the country, but our top gymnasts get scholarships and win at nationals. Our teams win most of the meets they enter. No one is ever left on a beam for hours, called names or any of the other things you've mentioned.

 

I encourage you to think if this is the way you want your daughter to accept as normal in all of her relationships.

[My3Monkeys]

:iagree:

Dd is a competitive gymnast as well. I would never tolerate that treatment for her or her teammates. Our gym is not the best in the country, but our top gymnasts get scholarships and win at nationals. Our teams win most of the meets they enter. No one is ever left on a beam for hours, called names or any of the other things you've mentioned.

 

I encourage you to think if this is the way you want your daughter to accept as normal in all of her relationships.

 

GOOD point!

[Nan in Mass]

Cleo, two things: My sons have been coached by coaches who were high school gymnasts and then plumbers, coaches who coached Eastern European olympic teams, and coaches between those two extremes. At times they were fairly good gymnasts and at times they were just going for the fun of it and not willing to work hard. Their own goals did not always match up with the goals of their coaches, but the coaches were always aware of what my sons' goals were and pushed them to achieve THOSE goals, not the goals of the gym or the coachs' goals. You or your daughter need to be able to tell the coach what those goals are and the coaching needs to be modified to meet those goals. That is what you are paying for. It may be that the gym isn't willing to have someone on that particular team whose goals are fun and not the olympics.

 

All the coaches were men coaching boys and at times were less than polite about my children's efforts. None of them did anything like what you describe with the beam. None of them yelled (except from a distance, to be heard). Sometimes they misjudged how hard to push and wound up with a crying child. They all felt badly when that happened and did their best to apologize and comfort him. If the child hurt himself badly and cried, they comforted him. If he hurt himself a little and cried, they told him not to be a baby, you'll be fine in a minute, stop crying. If he was scared, they told him not to be a baby and do it anyway, but it was possible for the child to refuse. The best coaches built up the skills slowly and spotted them until they gained confidence, even when they were 16. Before my 16yo went off to Japan last month, I reminded him that he doesn't have to do something that an adult tells him to do, and that he has to think for himself. He told me not to worry, that his coach is the only adult that he believes when he tells him he can do something that he thinks he can't. In other words, it isn't that the coach always has to win and the gymnast has to do it whether he wants to or not; rather it is that the coach always has to be right when he says, "You are able to do this," and the gymnast has to have faith in the coach and trust him. Your daughter doesn't know her new coach well enough to trust her yet. Perhaps, as time goes on, that trust will grow and all will be well, but in the meantime, as a parent, I would consider it a bad thing that the new coach doesn't recognize this and doesn't work first to build that trust on a series of successes rather than on fear. My children were pushed, called names, ignored when they weren't trying hard enough, and all the rest, but it was ok. It wasn't abuse because my children trusted the coaches and the coaches had their best interests at heart, not their own egos.

 

-Nan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I slept well, DD is still in bed.

 

This morning, I don't really regret not having sent her in yesterday, but I don't want to get to that point again. We had a nice chat, DD and I, about demanding coaches. Honestly, DD has not been on the receiving end of abuse. While there are some icky situations at the gym, she's not the target, has never been and is not right now. She has at least 2 other years before she moves up to the 'problem team'. We plan on puling her out at that time.

 

Right now, the head coach is very demanding because the next qualifier determines who goes to provincial championship. DD is on the list of maybes. A few kids are already qualified but not her. She's probably #1 of the maybe list though. It *is* DD's dream to make it to the championship. Olympics no, but this year's championship at her level? yes. So the coach is working in line with DD's current aspirations. But it's DD's first time in being pushed outside of her comfort zone. She never needed that so far. Right now, she needs it. She can score a 12.10 (scoring over here is different than everywhere else, btw), but others can score a 12.60 and a few can score a 13.00 The difference is strictly about straight legs, straigth arms. It's not a new move that she has to learn, she has to master to perfection those she can do. At the previous gym, it was enough to be 'good enough' and to score 11.50 per apparatus. She does have to get used to someone expecting her to do her best.

 

It's really Dd's first time in being pushed at her limits. We've seen every other member of her team cry because the coach wants the best, except my own kid. I have warned her it would come soon enough. Now it's her turn. And she reacts by refusing to go to the gym. I'm not too happy about that reaction. but maybe she really needed to confide in me and feel she has support at home.

 

thank you everyone who responded and helped me work through my feelings.

 

:grouphug: for *your* support!

[LidiyaDawn]

We've seen every other member of her team cry because the coach wants the best, except my own kid. I have warned her it would come soon enough. Now it's her turn. And she reacts by refusing to go to the gym.

 

I will never put my kids into any kind of activity where it's somehow seen as "normal" for a coach/teacher/instructor/etc to make them cry.

 

I'd refuse to go to the gym too.

[Nan in Mass]

Straight legs are one thing. Fly-aways are another. You probably want to talk to your daughter about how some of what she is seeing with the older levels is not right, why, and about how you don't approve of it, though, because it is amazing how much children absorb and what they conclude from being allowed to stay in a situation. You don't want her thinking the bad coaching is ok. It might spill over into her parenting when she is a mother.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

That is why the choice of coach and choice of gym matters so much. You are basically co-parenting with the coach. I have noticed that most of the people who are willing to do it were gymnasts or something similar themselves. They are willing to do it because they know how much they gained from it. The whole set-up is pretty scary, looked at from a modern child-raising point of view. I would do it again in a minute, though, and I would be surprised if my children did not have their own children in gymnastics. I have strong children, not just physically strong but strong in character.

-Nan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Straight legs are one thing. Fly-aways are another. -Nan

 

hmm. She's working on straight legs *in* her fly-aways. It's a move she can do, but while the legs are straight, they're not completely extended. She does have a slight bend.

 

Anyway, I'm not too sure what you're trying to convey here, by saying "fly-aways are another"..

[Nan in Mass]

No wonder you are confused. I'm using the wrong terminology. I was thinking of the release skills - where you let go of the bar, do a flip, and grab hold again while doing giants. They aren't too fond of blind changes, either. And they've all banged themselves up on the parallel bars enough that it takes courage for them to do some of those skills, as well. The point I was trying to make is that learning to do something scary and then learning to do it with good form are two different things. Our coaches would be much more likely to coax a child through the first and much more likely simply to order the child to do the second. It doesn't make any difference to you because you obviously know that already, but it does make a difference in what sort of advice people are likely to give you. : )

-Nan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

No wonder you are confused. I'm using the wrong terminology. I was thinking of the release skills - where you let go of the bar, do a flip, and grab hold again while doing giants. -Nan

 

Ah, that would be a Gienger (spelling not guaranteed). The advance team is working on those, including three kids of the same age as DD... But not DD. She's working on the fly-away, which is a dismount.

 

And yes, I can see how the situation would be different whether you're learning a scary move, or polishing one you can do. Basically, she's being asked to polish her move, and each time she doesn't do it nicely, she gets to do push-ups or something similar. So it's a punishment/reward sytem, to get her to try harder. It's so easy to keep repeating the same mistakes. Not so easy to correct something.

[Nan in Mass]

And it is making her stronger at the same time. Sounds rather familiar. Not particularly fun and if done wrong, downright nasty, but if done in a good natured way, a fairly good way of giving these high strung kids an outlet for their frustration at not being able to get something right. At least, it works well with teenaged boys. I don't know about little girls. : )

-nan

[Dmmetler]

I will never put my kids into any kind of activity where it's somehow seen as "normal" for a coach/teacher/instructor/etc to make them cry.

 

I'd refuse to go to the gym too.

 

 

I think that would depend on the child, though. My DD's response to frustration is to cry-and if the adult backs off and lets her get away with it, and doesn't continue to push a little, she'll develop a fear that she really CAN'T learn whatever, and stop trying. It's MUCH harder to get over that block later than to get over it now, even though there are tears. So, I warn all of her coaches/teachers that as long as she's crying and still trying, to ignore the tears and continue to support her attempts, and to finish the class/practice session-even if all she does is stand there and cry.

 

And usually, she'll show some minor improvement that session-but by the next one, there will be MAJOR gains, because she'll have worked through what was bothering her.

 

This is everything that has a challenge to it-whether it was riding a bike, pumping a swing, tying shoes, or whether it's a dance step or tumbling skill.

 

So for my DD, a coach that doesn't make her cry is someone who isn't challenging her. Period.

 

I would, however, be concerned if my DD didn't want to go back and had problems with the coach directly-when she's in that crying/frustrated state, her problem is with HERSELF, not the coach.