Asynchronous development in general AND within subjects

[Enough]

HELP. :001_huh:

 

I recently started HSing my DS, 8 1/2 yo. I THOUGHT HSing would 'solve' the issues he was having in school, but I obviously have no idea what I'm dealing with here. The major issue I'm seeing is his asynchronous development. He has never been tested for giftedness (that I know of) but when he did aptitude testing for entrance into his (private) school he was ahead of his peers in all areas, from 2 to off-the-charts above grade level.

 

His academic dev. is WAY higher than his social/emotional- he is generally right at or behind his peers in these areas. AND he has moderate SPD.

 

{sheesh}

 

Even *within* academic subject areas he has such a wide range! So much so that almost ALL of the rigorous curricula I purchased is a terrible fit. For example, WWE1: the copywork is excruciatingly difficult for him, but his narration responses (which he dictates) are detailed, grammatically- and structurally-correct ESSAYS, not sentences. So he could easily move up a level or three in narration, but 1 is very much 'where he is at' in copywork. In Megawords, he has 100% accuracy with reading proficiency and fluency. If I followed their recommendations he will be in book 3-4 by June, and not do any spelling work- but today on a whim I tested his spelling of the words he had just scored 100% on and he really struggled with them.

 

His memory, intelligence, and reading comprehension are incredible. He read LOTR maybe 2 years ago- and fully *understood* it. :blink:

 

I am totally lost, and the curricula choices are doing the same things his school was doing (i.e. not challenging him enough in certain areas, and frustrating him to the point of 'checking out' in others). Do I need to get him tested? Or, what else? I need advice from BTDT parents.

[Dmmetler]

We hit that too-mostly due to writing, so I modify a lot.

 

I've also hit it with a few math concepts-for example, time in general drives my daughter crazy, and her fine motor skills are such that anything relying on counting is tough for her (graphing at the end of 2B, for example)-it's way too easy for her little fingers to land on the same item twice, so I've been teaching her to actually MARK items in the workbook as she counts them. It is literally easier for the poor kid to do 4th-5th grade math than to do 1st grade math a lot of time.

 

 

I kind of think of my daughter like the Genie in Aladdin-Big, enormous, powerful mental capacity, little teeny immature body!

[2smartones]

This is where I (personally) think testing is important. An IQ score means squat usually, but knowing which areas of the brain are firing faster than others can really help you understand how to be a better teacher.

 

And I ditto the remark about using curriculum as a guide. I've found very few things that we can pick up and use "as is"... writing is a big issue, of course, but you're right, even within subject matter, there's a variation of what gets learned when. My oldest is the "wordy" child. He can take any type of language arts (except handwriting, of course) and eat two weeks worth for lunch. He's been like that from the day he was born. He was at an adult reading level when he was 4. He still can't add worth anything, though. He can multiply and divide up to 15x12 without blinking an eye, but he can't add to save his life. :confused: My younger one is the "mathy" one, but he's all attitude and doesn't have much motivation to be taught. He likes to learn, but he doesn't like to "be taught", if that makes sense.

[Laura Corin]

I took a lot of dictation from Calvin when he was younger. We worked on handwriting separately, but the self expression was all oral. Over time, his handwriting caught up with his thinking - well, more or less. He mostly types now.

 

Laura

[Enough]

We hit that too-mostly due to writing, so I modify a lot.

 

I've also hit it with a few math concepts-for example, time in general drives my daughter crazy, and her fine motor skills are such that anything relying on counting is tough for her (graphing at the end of 2B, for example)-it's way too easy for her little fingers to land on the same item twice, so I've been teaching her to actually MARK items in the workbook as she counts them. It is literally easier for the poor kid to do 4th-5th grade math than to do 1st grade math a lot of time.

 

 

I kind of think of my daughter like the Genie in Aladdin-Big, enormous, powerful mental capacity, little teeny immature body!

 

The writing has definitely been an issue with math- he 'gets' the concepts in MM easily but he cannot write the answers himself. I've been focusing more on Miquon because he LOVES using the c-rods and there is very little if any writing that he has to do.

 

And I totally get the Genie image! Yup, that's my boy!

 

What I found is that there are somethings where you have to use the curriculum as a guide for you and then you have to teach it in a way that fits your child. It would be great if the scripted lessons worked for kids like this..... but they don't.

 

So, you keep copywork at a level that is challenging but not undoable.

 

Download Susan's lectures on writing and literary analysis. Keep in mind that her recommendations are for typically developing kids. You will need to do literature and composition at your son's level - whatever that is. You have a couple of options for accommodations. You can be his scribe and write for him, you can have him narrate into a tape recorder or you can teach him to type. A lot of people end up with a combination of those things.

 

It sounds like you need to separate spelling out from vocabulary and literature. If he can read and understand LOTR, is he making logic stage like connections between things and analyzing why something is happening instead of just remembering the facts? If he is thinking in a logic stage way, then treat his logic stage lit analysis as if her were that age, but don't expect the output of a 12 yo. Output will still be that of a 7 yo.

 

Basically, you separate things out so that he can work at different levels in different subjects. Sorry, the all-in-one LA programs will never work for you. Pre-scripted grammar or writing programs may end up going too slowly. You will need to use the materials to make sure that you know the information, and then you have to adjust the work to his needs. You might choose rod and Staff grammar but combine lessons and do just a little of the practice orally before moving on.

 

Susan's Writing lectures will help you match your expectations to his level without having to go out and buy years worth of curriculum in the next month.

 

Programs that cover a wide range of skills levels would be good investments. So, the WWE workbooks won't work for you, but the main text that tells you how to do it yourself is a good bet. It covers multiple levels and you can adjust things to move as quickly through the material as needed.

 

I rambled a ton, does any of that make sense?

 

Any more descriptions of what he is doing in other subjects and how he reacts to the materials will help others make suggestions.

 

You made a lot of sense. Thank you! :) I mentioned Miquon above- I had been alternating this with Math Mammoth, but am now using the Miquon daily and the MM as more of a 'check' once a week or so. The intellectual aspect of MM is not a struggle, but the amount of problems per page and the handwriting is a HUGE problem. (He is now dictating all of these answers to me.)

 

We're doing MCT Grammar Island and he really loves it. We are just reading it aloud and doing the exercises orally.

 

SOTW he also LOVES. We read it aloud and then he reads a quadrillion books related to the chapter topic. Sometimes we do a fun activity/field trip.

 

Recently started Song School Latin- again, he LOVES it. I can see him moving into LfC very, very soon.

 

Literature- classic, living, hearty books. Very little twaddle. :001_smile: We do a ton of family read-alouds and he also reads many, many, many books on his own.

 

This is where I (personally) think testing is important. An IQ score means squat usually, but knowing which areas of the brain are firing faster than others can really help you understand how to be a better teacher.

 

 

I am leaning towards testing, too. I have a general idea of his abilities, but more info is never a bad thing.

 

I took a lot of dictation from Calvin when he was younger. We worked on handwriting separately, but the self expression was all oral. Over time, his handwriting caught up with his thinking - well, more or less. He mostly types now.

 

 

Yes. I do feel like the writing squelches his self-expression, and I don't want that! Typing is a great idea. And so is the tape recorder idea that Cadam mentioned above.

 

 

Lots of great information here. Thank you!

[catz]

I have the female version of that one. :banghead:

 

Oooo ... me too! My 6 year old is making me crazy because I started her at the beginning of the Singapore math sequence this year. Well something switched on in her brain and I could probably skip a year or 2 for here without a problem right now. But she refuses to do more than 1 exercise per day and I don't really want to jump ahead either. I need to figure out how to compact for her so by fall she might actually be learning something new.

 

Just more of the same here - I use Singapore Math and MCT language arts (actually with mods). All other curriculum in my house is purely reference material for me. If your child's an avid reader, embrace that. My son could read about anything he wanted starting at age 6 too. My daughter can too, but she only wants to read American Girl and Calvin and Hobbes. :willy_nilly:My kids only do table work for 1 hour for my younger, 2-3 hours for my older and they are still wildly ahead and have lots of time for their own passions. Music lessons have been wonderful for both of them too.

 

One thing that has helped my oldest is he's a fairly fluent typer now. He will type pages when he'll only hand write a small amount. So teaching your child to type isn't a bad idea. My older does do hand written copy work daily, but I allow him to do composition on the computer if he wants. And he actually writes infinitely more this way. My younger is a horrible writer too. My kids are very much asynchronous like this. My older will be able to handle college level material in 2-3 years, but I have NO intention of sending him off to college before age 18.

[bcnlvr]

Oof! I could have written your post. My ds9 is just as you describe. We are all over the map with curricula. Science/math, easily 2+ grades ahead. Vocab/grammar, 2 grades ahead. Socially, not so much. Fine motor, not so much (he can't tie his shoes, there, I said it). Writing, not so much. He can verbalize a beautiful response to a reading question, but can't write it down. Writing is our thorn. I have him in keyboarding and that is helping. In the beginning, I DID expect his output to equal his imput. And that went, well, you know, HORRIBLY!!

 

Right now DS9 is enrolled in k12 (until June). He is a "third grader". He has just finished Language Arts 4 and much of the literature/writing work was done verbally or as me as his scribe. He is in math 5 and if I show him another problem like he has already seen (it's spiral), I think he may gouge my eyes out. I can definitely say that the "boxed" approach is not working with this child.

 

I will be keeping an eye on this thread!! :lurk5:

[Kuovonne]

Even *within* academic subject areas he has such a wide range! So much so that almost ALL of the rigorous curricula I purchased is a terrible fit. For example, WWE1:

...

 

 

That's why I don't use curriculum that tries to teach multiple skills at ones. Spelling is separate from vocabulary. Mechanics of writing (dictation) is separate from composition (narration), and grammar is separate from both of them. Regular math lessons is separate from fact practice, and both are separate from solving word problems.

 

In English, DD ranges from on grade level (comprehension) to 2+ grade levels ahead (spelling, grammar). In math DD's word problems are 1st grade, math lessons are 2nd grade, and fact memorization is 3rd grade.

[Enough]

You guys have given me so much to think about. :)

 

I'm realizing that the curricula I chose are very difficult to adapt in the way my son needs- or at least, it seems difficult for ME. My brain was spinning last night trying to figure out how to adapt what I've got, and quite honestly I am {thisclose} to just chucking spelling, copywork, and Math Mammoth for the time being and just feeding my kid literature.

 

Are there any specific curricula or programs or philosophies that DO lend themselves to this sort of parceling out? Or books that only tackle one particular skill?

[Dmmetler]

I've found the best thing to do is to get each book at a time, and to let go on the idea that finishing a book requires actually doing the written work. My DD is on the last 2 chapters of LfC A. The only words of Latin she's written are in a couple of little cartoons she's drawn with characters speaking Latin, inspiried by Minimus. She has probably actually written 1 page in 10 in her Singapore workbook in math-and even then, those are the "connect lines" type pages, and the only reason she's done those any way but orally is that she likes coloring the little pictures. Every other book...same thing. She will occasionally decide she wants to do a page, but most of the time, we do it all orally. And any recording happens either through audio recordings or because I wrote it down.

 

Luckily, I have a cover school that doesn't demand documentation-because otherwise, I'd have to bring in DD and let them talk to her-we have very little documentation that isn't in her brain and nowhere else, except for her handwriting book-since that's about the only subject I make her write. Because, unfortunately, she has about the handwriting expected of a young 6 yr old Kindergartner-which is what she'd be in public school. And I'm sure she has less pieces of paper to show what she's done this year than she'd have had in ps K.

 

I do wonder how this is going to work in math as she gets to a point where it's going to be harder to do it mentally. So far, she's been able to do Singapore almost 100% orally as mental math, and that's worked for her, but I'm a little concerned about how model drawing is going to work-and, in fact, that's the main reason why we've been doing a lot of extra word problems, problem solving, logic, and anything else even moderately related to 2A/2B-because while she almost certainly could have compressed 2A/2B as fast as she did 1A/1B, I'm scared that she's going to hit a physical limit.

[mktkcb]

Agree with the others. Lots of oral work. Appropriate amount of copywork. Teach your boy to type NOW. Get a good gamey typing program and just let him loose. He'll figure it out in no time (unless he already knows how). Are you using Megawords for just spelling? Sounds like you can be done with phonics. In math, go halvsies on scribing. You write one, I write one. I did this with my son, gradually ramping up the amount of writing. It has been a real struggle. He spent a couple years doing Kinetic Books Algebra in 6th and 7th, which doesn't require much writing at all. This year he is doing geometry from a textbook, and he is just now at the point that he can write all his math. Barely. And I have to nag him to make sure he puts enough steps in there instead of trying to do most of it in his head and just write the answer. And it looks like a 1st grader wrote it and he's 14. OY! I feel your pain. Pretty much: assist with the needed logistics in subjects where he needs physical help. Let him fly with the academics. IOW, don't hold him back, but help with the physical writing as needed. Scribe for him, gradually ramping up each year. Try not to pick curriculum that is writing/workbook intensive for for content subjects like science or history. And yeah, it's a continual tightrope.

[2smartones]

... I am {thisclose} to just chucking ... Math Mammoth ...and just feeding my kid literature.

 

Are there any specific ...books that only tackle one particular skill?

 

Tons! You can even use literature for math for a while if you want. There are a lot of "math books" at the library. Go to Amazon.com, put in "Sir Cumference" and look at all of the math suggestions it gives you. For curricula, get books that fit multiple levels (ones that are written without a particular level in mind, or ones that cater to a family approach so that siblings can work together). You can teach the material and easily adapt the output.

[Marie in Oh]

she has the fine motor skills of a surgeon (her cursive is gorgeous), she is type A to a T (a self induced perfectionist). She has amazing musicality (her teacher's words, not mine) for her age and has already graduated out of Faber's piano methods. However, her emotional maturity is that of a child much more of a K'er. She is fearful, doesn't like to sleep upstairs (though she shares with her two younger sisters), and was late doing lots of things that are considered independent milestones. She is a delightful child, but she is just behind emotionally. Thankfully, she is petite, so when she exhibits behavior less mature than her age, no one blinks because she looks 5 not 7.5. Ahh, the joys of giftedness. It can be maddening, eh?

[Kuovonne]

Thankfully, she is petite, so when she exhibits behavior less mature than her age, no one blinks because she looks 5 not 7.5.

 

 

My 7 year old DD is accelerated in English and holds her own in other academic subjects. She is also very tall and looks at least two years older than she is. It's frustrating when people expect her to act like a 9 year old (based on her height and academics) and she behaves like a 6 year old.

[Embassy]

I find that I need to piecemeal things to get the right fit. In language arts, for instance, my kids may be at one grade level for vocabulary, one for reading, one for grammar, and a different one for writing. These grade levels may vary 5-6 grade levels in just language arts. For math I've had to do one level for math facts, one level for the standard curriculum, and another level for living math books.

 

It keeps things interesting. But when I find the right mix, life is easier :)

[Storm Bay]

That's why I don't use curriculum that tries to teach multiple skills at ones. Spelling is separate from vocabulary. Mechanics of writing (dictation) is separate from composition (narration), and grammar is separate from both of them. Regular math lessons is separate from fact practice, and both are separate from solving word problems.

 

.

 

:iagree:We separate things out as well for my dc who fall into that. So far I have found that the things that are behind develop later in my dc, and so they catch up in most things (we're not done yet, so I can't say all yet).

[tarahillmom]

I have found that using different books for literature, grammar,writing, spelling, and vocabulary work is very helpful. For vocabulary we use Word Roots software so he learns it but isn't having to do write constantly. I have to say BJU grammar tackles the grammar but doesn't require much in the line of writing. We use spelling power which constantly goes over the phonics rules (plus its one book over a lot of years.) I have also enjoyed Mosdos Press's literature books. The student workbook has lots of activities that you can choose to do or not and the TE is very comprehensive. As far as testing I used the Brigance test which tests abilities in all areas and is not perfect, but a lot cheaper than a professional.

[Reya]

This isn't really asynchronous. This is NORMAL for a gifted kid. Physical, emotional, and mental levels are separate things.

 

Stop using prepackaged curricula. They don't work. My kid's finished 6th grade grammar, reads at a 7/8th grade level, writes at a 3rd grade level, and spells at a 4th grade level. All of this is perfectly normal for a gifted kid, but it's not going to work with a packaged curriculum. The more gifted the kid, the more obvious the gaps.