European vs. American education?

[trying my best]

I had heard that before. Do they live on a campus?

Eather way.

When i was little I had a friend who were doing gymnastics. She lived at home.

I think that if a parent is super eager to see a child in Olympics they have an option to live on Campus. Meals and rooms are provided for free. Kid go home on weekends.

[trying my best]

But that's kind of different - it wouldn't be accessible to everyone. They are training kids who are likely to be doing their sport long-term. I assume, anyway.

Well if you are into sports you would probably stick with it for several years anyways. You dont have to be commited for life time at all..

 

But all school have selection of kids. Gymnastics have age restriction and flexibility. They have test to take to get enrolled.

Another friend i had was in Figure Skating. They have option to stay or quit. Noone is forsing to have long commitment. But i am assuming if a child spends several years it would be hard to quit emotionally.

Edited February 11, 2011 by trying my best

[JadeOrchidSong]

I wish I were in one of the countries outside the US. I would love to learn the way they could provide.

[mommymilkies]

For the shorter school days-does anyone have any idea for a common school schedule? I'm curious as to how it's done.

[Haiku]

Maybe because of finances of families. Some children would never be able to participate.

 

That happens even when schools sponsor sports. They are still not free.

 

Then you have the kids who can't participate bc they have little siblings to look after after school.

 

Or the kids who can't participate because they have to have a job.

 

Or the kids who can't participate because they don't have the grades.

 

Or the kids who can't participate because they don't have the interest/ability.

 

Overall, I think schools spend a huge amount of money on sports that benefit relatively few kids (I guess it depends on how large your school is; my high school had 2600 kids and a mere fraction of them participated in the sports).

 

Tara

[DragonFaerie]

Eather way.

When i was little I had a friend who were doing gymnastics. She lived at home.

I think that if a parent is super eager to see a child in Olympics they have an option to live on Campus. Meals and rooms are provided for free. Kid go home on weekends.

 

My daughter is a competitive gymnast. I just read this to her and she said "I want to live in Russia!" Somehow, I'm not surprised. :lol:

[Heather in WI]

This thread has a lot on this subject:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228902

 

Definitely put on thick skin before heading over! :)

[trying my best]

For the shorter school days-does anyone have any idea for a common school schedule? I'm curious as to how it's done.

HEre is a pic of any given class in Russian schools - Very simple, no distractions for kids to focus on what they need to do.

 

Lesson 1 8:30-9:15

Lesson 2 9.25 – 10.10

Lesson 3 10.30 – 11.15

Lesson 4 11.35 – 12.20

Lesson 512.30 – 13.15

Lesson 6 13.25 – 14.10

Lesson 7 14.55 – 15.40

 

1st grade:

Monday:

1. Reading

2 Writing

3. Math

4. Art/Craft

 

Tuesday:

1. Writing

2. PE

3. World all around us (kinda like scince you can find around you)

 

Wednesday:

1. Writing

2. Math

3. Reading

 

Thursday

1. Music

2. Math

3. Art and Craft

 

Friday

1. PE

2. Reading

3. Writing

 

2nd grade

Monday

1. Russian Language

2. Literature

3. Math

4. World Around Us

5. Art/Craft

 

Tuesday

1. Russian

2. English

3. Math

4. PE

5. Literature

 

Wednesday

1. Math

2. English

3. Russian

4. Music

5. Literature

 

Thursday

1. PE

2. Computers

3. Russian

4. Literature

5. Art/Craft

 

Friday

1. Russian

2. Math

3. English

4. World Around Us

5. Class time (discussing the needs of the class)

 

 

If interested in other grades let me know.

Edited February 11, 2011 by trying my best

[iwka]

Poland:

Year '0' (here K) - reading; elementary math; still 'play and learn' method

Years 1-3 - when I went through it we've had Math and Polish daily, plus Nature& PE twice weekly, Music & Art once weekly - only 3 h daily, 8-11am; strict classrooms methods, quite demanding from the beginning; Since we did not have Year '0' then, reading started in Year 1, and every child would read in a month or two; now: integrated curriculum, all these subjects are intertwined and overlap; English starts also in Year 1 now; my generation does not like it;

Year 4 - for my generation and now it is a transitional year; Botany, Geography and History added (History of Poland). I started German lang. course after school. Now: another foreign lang. is added on top of that.

Year 5 - Physics, Biology (instead of Botany) and foreign language added (everybody had to study Russian then - Communism :-). All of these twice a week. On average we would stay at school from 8 am till 1pm or so, mostly 5 different lesson daily. History goes through grade 8, chronological, including Polish history. Literature in Polish corresponds with studied history.

Year 7 - Chemistry (two lessons weekly) and Geometry added (3 or 4 Math lessons weekly plus 2 Geometry lessons weekly); Civics and Government weekly.

 

High School:

 

We've had profiled high schools, called Liceum, only people with good grades from Year 8 were received to those. It was considered 'liberal arts education'. You could focus on Math/Physics, or Polish, or History or foreign language. You would have then on average 6-7 of these lessons (one lesson is 45 min) weekly. Everything else is the same for four years, i. e.: History (2x), Geography (2x), Russian (2x), Biology (2x), Physics (2x), Chemistry (2x), PE (2x), Civics (1x), Geography, including Earth science (2x), Math (Algebra, Calculus) (4-5x); Geometry and Trigonometry (2x); Polish (5-6x); Physics (2x); foreign lang (2x); PE (2x)

Again, history corresponding with the Literature, chronological for 4 years.

School days were 8-3:00 or so;

 

There was an option for those who had good grades, but were already inclined technically. These are called 'Technikum' - vocational schools, 5 years long (not 4, like Liceum); After graduating from Technikum, you could work right away or go to the unversity. These schools would specialized in many occupations: nursing, dietitian, medics, electronics, miners, photography, accounting... you name it)

 

Last year of Liceum and Technikum included a exam from the whole four years of study, called matura. It is still used in may European countries. Liceum graduates had to pass written Polish and Math (including Geometry), and oral in Polish, Math, foreign lang. and one additional subject. It was quite tough, we've had to study for few months to pass. It is not "critical thinking" knowledge (we give you all the facts and tools during the exam, we just want to see if you can use your critical thinking skills), it is real knowledge, memorized and applied.

 

After matura, if you wanted to be received into university, you still had to pass the entrance exams.

 

Those who were not good students in grade 8, were choosing 3 year long vocational schools, similar to the Technikum, but with much less theory. After finishing this school, you could start working, and if you decided to continue your education you could finish Liceum or Technikum on weekends. Some people, late intellectual bloomers and from difficult backgrounds, could choose that way, and later on go to the University. So the system was open to all.

 

In the early years there was little homework, grades 1-3, maybe 30 min daily. Grades 4 & 5 - about 1h-2 h daily; Grades 7 & 8 - 2 or more. High school - 3-5 h home work and studying daily. 4th grade of high school: the last 6 months or so, when you start to prepare to pass the ending exam - we had to study for everyday lessons plus for the exam, which was horrid.

Edited February 12, 2011 by iwka

[FairProspects]

Another reason America probably behind is amount of home school work!

Seriously guys! have you seen Russian homework in middle school or hight school? Its if the kids already in collage. I remember sitting till 11pm every night just to finish book reports, geography maps, math, writing, biology - every day its easy 5 hours of home school work!

That really makes teacher's job easy if a child doing 1/2 of the class at home as practice. And that doesnt start in middle school - it starts in elementary as well.

 

I'm sorry, but I think there are many in America (and Western Europe for that matter) who would disagree that this is best for children. Multiple studies show that large amounts of homework, while very beneficial to academic outcomes in the later grades, have negligible impact on learning in the early years.

[trying my best]

I'm sorry, but I think there are many in America (and Western Europe for that matter) who would disagree that this is best for children. Multiple studies show that large amounts of homework, while very beneficial to academic outcomes in the later grades, have negligible impact on learning in the early years.

depends how large!

For 1st grader - i would be ok with 1 hour of home work.

If the 1st grader comes home at noon-ish like in my country. I would be ok if my child sits extra hour at the desk and do some drills they have been studied in class.

But in America if my child comes home at 3pm, he is already emotionally tired... no homework will be ok for him. This is another down side of long hours schooling in schools

Edited February 12, 2011 by trying my best

[leann_in_tx]

I read somewhere on here long ago that the Singapore science books are similar to the European model. There is a middle and high school curriculum that goes through bio, chem and physics over multiple years. I understand the high school chem at least is difficult to do at home - maybe you could use the texts as a supplement or an outline to follow, along with a US text?

 

http://www.singaporemath.com/Science_s/2.htm

[Targhee]

That really is bizarre! And says a lot about our schools here. How is it possible that they are getting a much better education in a lot less time???

 

We are not educating, we're providing state babysitting services.

[EKS]

depends how large!

For 1st grader - i would be ok with 1 hour of home work.

If the 1st grader comes home at noon-ish like in my country. I would be ok if my child sits extra hour at the desk and do some drills they have been studied in class.

But in America if my child comes home at 3pm, he is already emotionally tired... no homework will be ok for him. This is another down side of long hours schooling in schools

 

:iagree:

[Targhee]

I'm sorry, but I think there are many in America (and Western Europe for that matter) who would disagree that this is best for children. Multiple studies show that large amounts of homework, while very beneficial to academic outcomes in the later grades, have negligible impact on learning in the early years.

 

 

I think the amount of homework kids in the early grades have is silly - what they need is better instruction in school, and succinct homework (if they aren't at school 7 hours a day) at home.

[CandaceC]

I just wanted to give a quick THANK YOU to those of you who are commenting from other countries, or with experience in other countries! This thread has been VERY interesting and eye opening!! :)

[Targhee]

This thread makes me want to pull out LCC and streamline even more. Not that it's necessarily a European-style education, or that European-style education is the paragon or educational systems, but the comments that really hit me most from this thread were those that I also found in LCC:

 

- second and third language is important

- math, reading, and writing are important

- sports, circle time, and other "fluff" are not essential

(the above making up the multum non multa philosophy)

- mastery is expected

- students need to take ownership of their education

- long days are not necessary

[MeganW]

This thread has a lot on this subject:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228902

 

Definitely put on thick skin before heading over! :)

 

 

Whew - took me 2 days to read through all that, but worth the time!

[regentrude]

My husband said things are changing in Germany. So some schools are going to a longer schedule. Also, for those who have stuck to the traditional schedule in some areas kids go to school on Saturday. So while they have shorter days, they do go more days. They don't get the entire summer off. Overall, my guess is that it doesn't work out to be a huge difference.

 

The shortest days are for those in the earliest grades.

 

I'll have to ask my husband if he can find a schedule to show you (he once showed me one that was posted from a German school online).

 

For the schedules it is important to know that German students take many more subjects concurrently, but not every subject every day for a period.

For instance, in 6th grade, my DD had German(4 periods), Math(4), English(4), French (4), Biology(3), Physics(3), art(1), Music(1), PE(2), and Ethics(2)... I forgot some.

Every weekday has a different schedule, often different numbers of periods. (She hat 7 periods twice a week, 6 periods twice, five on Fridays). It goes up in later years.

Students get themselves to and from school and there is no need for all kids to have identical schedules because of school bus transportation - they walk or use public transit.

 

IN Germany, summer break is 6 weeks only. the total number of school days comes out to be about the same, but the number of hours in elementary grades is definitely less. My 4th grader had six periods one day, five periods three days, and four periods one day

Edited February 13, 2011 by regentrude

[Mom in High Heels]

We are not educating, we're providing state babysitting services.

 

That's the best thing I've read in a long time.

[Kim in SouthGa]

Just thinking aloud about the sciences...

What if you did Apologia Biology, Chemistry, and Physics concurrently taking two years for each, then did the upper levels also concurrently and also taking two years for each? That would give you four years of science and get all the advanced courses in.

I suppose you could do a trimester of each or do each subject on different days so you didn't have to do all three sciences on the same day. I think I would prefer doing it by trimester. If I wasn't so science lab challenged, I would try this. We have to have our lab coops, though.:glare:

[mommymilkies]

When I was in high school, I had a friend who was a French exchange student. She had to re-do her last year in France as the two did not compare favorably and she was "behind" even with a 4.0 here in the states. Dh teaches chemistry in a cc and has a lot of foreign students. We were talking about this subject after I read this thread. He agrees the difference in the average American student & foreign students are startling. There are differences between countries, too. Not so much in achievement as in their range and depth. I know that of the people I graduated with, all of my friends (honor students for the most part) had to take remedial math and english in college.

[Stacy in NJ]

Of course, we track here in the USA but not nearly to the degree that many European countries do. I'm thinking here specifically of France and Germany.

 

As Americans, we're much more hung up on educational equality and have a hard time with the aggressive sorting that happens on the other side of the pond. The early elementary testing, around age 10, that determines, to a certain extent, the child's academic course is an impossibility with our diverse populations and endemic performance gaps. Basically, if we tested as aggressively as they do, we'd end up with a profoundly racially segregated system. That's not something most of us want or can deal with.

 

Most European countries also have national curriculum: a core of standard classes whose content is pre-determined by a national government. We have no such thing, thus the widely differing standards.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Stacy in NJ

[trying my best]

My daughter is a competitive gymnast. I just read this to her and she said "I want to live in Russia!" Somehow, I'm not surprised. :lol:

Oh me too! me too! Both of my kids are involved in the gym and i cant even afford for them to be in the team even though its their passion.