Questions for actual and potential Chemists and Chem Engineers!

[April in CA]

Hello Everyone!

My younger ds has discovered an interest and ability in chemistry! He enjoyed chemistry last year in 10th grade (using DIVE and Apologia) and is thriving in AP Chem (through ChemAdvantage via PA Homeschoolers). He is maintaining approx a 95% average! So, he is thinking that he may be interested in pursuing chemistry or chem engineering in college. He is also, thankfully, likely to advance at least to National Merit Semifinalist based on his PSAT scores. He will need to follow the money in his choice of universities.

 

So, what we would like to know is: what do professional chemists and chem engineers actually do? What kinds of jobs do they get, where, what kind of working conditions, salaries, job security, etc - really anything you can think of that may be helpful as my ds thinks about career choices. Also, what kinds of other skills are important in these fields? (writing, speaking, etc)

Also, can you point out some good and great schools for these subjects?

 

Ds is rather eclectic in his interests, and he is also interested in government and might like to work in the Foreign Service like his grandfather. So schools that offer both opportunities (chem and gov't) - odd mix, I know, but that is ds! - would be especially nice! All the better if they offer huge scholarships to MNFs and if there are good places to go birdwatching close by!

Thanks for your help!

Blessings,

April :001_smile:

[Brenda in MA]

April,

 

I had a similar interest in high school, and my chem teacher directed me to study chemical engineering over chemistry, and I'm glad I did.

 

For my experience, B. S. level chemists usually work in labs of some type. Some jobs would be water testing, chemical testing of products, etc. The pay is decent, but there usually isn't much chance of advancing a great deal unless one has a graduate degree, usually a PhD is needed to run a lab or teach at a university. With a PhD, a career in research can be very rewarding.

 

B. S. level chemical engineers can also work in lower-level lab jobs. They also can join design teams at companies that produce chemicals and chemical related products, like oil, laundry soap, pharmaceuticals, tires, etc. Engineers can also join the technical sales staff at companies or do project management. With only a B. S. degree, there are quite a few types of opportunities, but most who stay in the field will work towards at least an M. S. degree. A PhD would be needed to teach at a university or to lead a research group at a company. I also knew a few fellow undergraduates who studied chemical/biomedical engineering and then went to medical school.

 

Regarding specific schools, you have some excellent choices in CA, including Stanford, UC Berekley, and Cal Tech. The schools that I am most familiar with back East are not known for great merit aid. As far as salaries and types of jobs, you might look at the placement center websites at technical schools.

 

Here is a page I found on UC Berkeley's site:

 

https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/ChemEngr.stm

 

If you surf around, they also have some info on Chemistry.

 

Best wishes to your son!

Brenda

[laundrycrisis]

If a person is interested in a career in research or running a laboratory, I would go with chemistry, but be prepared to need at least a master's degree and probably a PhD. The chemists I knew in research all had PhDs, and the one I knew with only a master's degree ran the plant lab. All of the chemistry majors I knew in school were either pre-med, or they were going for their PhD.

 

On the other hand, ChemEs have many opportunities for career growth with just a BS degree. As an undergrad ChemE student, I had summer internships following both my sophomore and junior years that paid at a rate equivalent to a starting salary and helped me finish the degree. At the end of my second internship, I went back to school for my senior year with a job already secured when I graduated; all I had to do was finish the degree; and I was paid a monthly stipend my entire senior year in exchange for working with the company's recruiters when they came to campus. Once I graduated, my job was interesting and challenging and I truly learned something new every day. I also had opportunities to go in various directions - becoming an expert in operations, developing capital projects, environmental compliance, or even going into the purely financial/business side of the industry. I had many opportunities to change jobs both within the company, or to move to other companies. Jobs were not hard to find. And they were all truly interesting.

 

On the downside, ChemEs who work in plants may work in hazardous environments, and may have daily low-level exposures to some concerning substances. They might also be expected to work a lot of overtime with no overtime pay or comp time, no advance notice, and saying "no" may not be an option. There may be an expectation that their job at the plant will take priority over family and personal time. I knew of people who had purchased plane tickets for vacations, who were told the morning they were to leave that they could not leave town because of something going on at the plant. Refusing was not an option. They had to cancel their vacations, and were not reimbursed for their lost investment either. Plant engineers may also experience being on the "company" side in labor union negotiations, and may be expected to be a scab worker during a strike. I did this for a month. A plant engineering job may be physically demanding and exhausting. The idea of night and weekends off may not be something the person can count on, because a plant engineer is pretty much on call all the time. I worked at three different plants and this was the case at all three of them. Engineers may also be expected to fill a spot in the plant fire brigade, or depending on the location, the hurricane team...that means if there is an evacuation called, you can't go .... you report to the plant and are prepared to help do an emergency shutdown if the storm comes that way, and use survival gear (ie rafts) to wait for your own evacuation rescue after the storm surge hits. These expectations can get pretty intense.

 

Engineers who work on capital projects may be expected to travel a lot, all over the world, and may be sent to other countries for months or even years at a time. Operations engineers may also be pressured by some companies to spend several years working in other countries, often in places where the political environment is not so safe, living in a compound and only leaving it with bodyguards. I knew people who did this. Some companies will "offer" an employee a position like this, with a big pay raise for "hazardous duty", but if the employee says no, in the end they will lose their job.

 

Overall I did not find it to be a family-friendly or healthy career. The overtime expectations were too excessive for me. Most of the older engineers I worked with were divorced. I knew people who seemed healthy but had strokes or came down with cancer at ages that seemed way too young. These are the reasons I chose to leave it. I still really miss the science and economics and thinking-on-my-feet aspects of it though. Those parts were great.

 

The other downside might be how you feel about what you make. I'm a different person now, and I feel I have some "bad career karma" to shake off, because after I decided I didn't want to work around hydrocarbons and hydrofluoric acid anymore, I spent a year making corn syrup. :crying: There are a lot of companies that hire ChemEs that now, I wouldn't feel great about working for, due to business practices I have come to feel not so good about.

 

I will also honestly say that I still have dreams about industrial environments and hazards, and some of the near-misses and tragedies that happened in the plants I worked in. I have been inside a refinery when it is on fire, felt the impact of a tank explosion from less than one mile away, walked into an ammonia cloud, had a coworker narrowly survive a control panel exploding in his face, worked on hazop studies to try to think of every scenario in which something might go wrong and how to prevent it, and been part of the accident investigation after it did, and it's tough to get past this stuff. Anyone who is considering this career, I would advise choosing the industry you work in very carefully, and the company as well.

Edited January 13, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[momofkhm]

Keep in mind that my information is "eons" old!

 

I got a BS in chemistry. Just a BS. I worked at a lab. I was happy working in the lab as what I would call bench work. I would prep the samples and then run them if it was a GC/MS. Those people all had a masters. Don't know why though.

 

The "field guys" would go to smokestacks and collect the samples. Someone would point out the procedures on how to prep and run them. I'd give the results to someone else. There were people in the lab who had graduated a few years before I did that were still doing what I did but also analyzing results. They were still in their 20's. The people who were in thier 30's still usually had a BS but they were hardly in the lab. Just to check on things. But they were "project directors". They were the ones who told me what to do. Then the people who were older, they may have had advanced degrees, but they were project managers. They were the ones who worked directly with the clients. There was no reason for me to think I wouldn't be able to move up the ladder as I had more experience. Many people several levels up did not have advanced degrees.

 

I did go to client meetings, just not many. {I only worked for 2 or 3 years, got laid off, got pregnant and never went back. So my work experience was as a "fresh out".} The people in the upper 20's went to client meetings more often than I did and then the 30's maybe once a month.

 

I worked for a company whose main chemistry work was figuring out how to test for the chemicals the EPA wanted to regulate in the clean air act in the 90's. So it was all research, but at my fresh out with a BS level, it was bench chemistry work.

[Annie G]

My oldest daughter has a masters in chemistry from Georgia Tech. She's currently teaching labs at a university outside of Atlanta and recently interviewed for a lecturer position- a full time tenured position. So I'm not convinced leaving her PhD program with a masters is going to dead end her career.

Dd's best decision was going to a smaller school for her undergrad education. She had an excellent mentor- he guided her, helped her publish a paper as an undergrad, and sent her to speak at conferences. When she walked into Tech, she had a degree from a no-name school (Kennesaw State University) but tons of experiences the other kids didn't have, and that paved the way for her.

Good luck to your son- it's a fun field!

[burleygirl]

Sorry but this is going to be long. I am passionate about encouraging students to become engineers. I found it to be such a rewarding career.

 

I have a BSChE and I would have to agree with LaundryCrisis description of the negative side of working as a Plant/Process Engineer. However, that all depends on the company and the industry. When I graduated and was working before I started a family, I did work long hours and had 1 - 2 weekends off a month. I did travel but not a lot.

 

You do encounter some questionable practices sometimes in engineering depending on where you work. However, because of my personal beliefs there were companies who were not an option when it came to me choosing a position. I would also like to say that there are hazards on most jobs. Engineering is no different.

 

I am probably being bias but I believe the ChemE degree is one of the most flexible engineering degrees which will allow you to go in multiple fields. When I got my degree, 15 years ago, I took McHE, IE, CE, ME, EE classes in addition to the ones in my major.

 

Positives:

Good salary to support family

Multiple flexible job opportunities - an engineer can go the technical, business, management, quality, environmental, IT, route, trainer, product design, research, etc.

Good benefits - health, vacation, work life balance, tuition reimbursement

Learning opportunities

Opportunities for advancement

Can work abroad -- although some might see this as a negative

Job security is pretty good depending on the industry

You are making a difference.

 

Negatives

Long hours - sometimes

travelling - positive or negative depending on person

some plants are located in the middle of nowhere

 

Skills needed

Problem-solving skills

Critical thinking skills

Public speaking skills - I had a HUGE fear of speaking in public. One of my positions required me to be a trainer, I was sent to Train the trainer boot camp. It quickly helped me get over that. I can't count the number of presentations I have made to Operators as well as to senior executions.

 

Communication skills

Writing skills - one of my positions required me to write investigation reports

 

what do professional chemists and chem engineers actually do?

ChEs work as plant/process engineers - generally improving the production of some product - run the line faster, make more product - without costing the company more

ChEs work as quality engineers - insuring the product meets the specification requirements of the customer, doing root cause investigations when the customer complains about a product not meeting spec

ChEs design new production plants or work as start-up engineers on new plants

ChEs work as project engineers - managing a capital project or designing an upgrade to a new system

ChEs work as trainers - teaching others how to run a plant or do process improvement, problem

ChEs can work in maintenance -help the plant run better

ChEs can go into marketing as well.

 

ChEs can work in the food, pharmaceuticals, medical, nuclear, petroleum, chemical, automotive, education, government (patent law, CIA, FBI), energy industries

 

Working conditions/Salary

Working conditions can be as unfortunate as Laundrycrisis mentioned or you can work for a company that offers flextime, telecommuting, working abroad. Working hours on days. There will be circumstances where you may have to work overtime. No they don't pay overtime but when you leave "early" or stay home sick they don't dock your pay either.

 

Salary depends on the company - In general, the starting pay is good -but the old saying is if you want a raise as an Engineer you have to get it upfront or move to another company - with that said, I did make a very good salary - some industries pay more than others - (better paying industries, petroleum, nuclear, chemical) - those industries have higher risks as well.

 

Also, can you point out some good and great schools for these subjects?

I did not go to what you would call a "top" engineering school but if you can graduate from a fairly decent school with at least a 3.0 in ChE then most companies will give you a job. Getting a ChE degree is difficult and takes determination.

 

I talked several of my chemistry major friends into switching to ChE. I worked in a lab as a ChE but received ChE pay versus Chemistry pay. Chemists make much less than ChEs and like the other posters said, they usually have to get an advanced degree.

 

Sorry this is so long but I hope it was helpful.

Edited January 15, 2011 by burleygirl
More comments

[April in CA]

Thank you all so much; you have given us much to think about! I am sorry that I was late in thanking all of you; we were at a Robotics tournament this weekend, and my son's team won! Now we get to start saving to go to St Louis in April for the FIRST World Championships!

 

I really do appreciate all the comments from each of you, and if you have anything else to share that you think would be helpful, please share with us.

 

My son is quite interested in Texas A&M and the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. Both of these schools offer generous aid to National Merit Finalists. Any thoughts on either of these schools? Or others that might offer good merit scholarships. Sadly, our state schools her in CA offer virtually nothing in merit aid, so going to school here is unlikely. I wonder if CA is aware of the brain drain happening due to this policy? Sigh.

 

Thanks again, so much!

Blessings,

April

[GailV]

Most of the older engineers I worked with were divorced.

 

Had to comment on this, as someone who has been married to a ChemE for 28 years. Most of our ChemE friends that I can think of off the top of my head are still married. Some have had the opportunity to live all over the U.S. and Europe WITH THEIR FAMILIES, which means their kids have had truly amazing experiences. Heck, dh is currently on the phone right this minute to an old ChemE friend who is still married to the same woman (who wasn't a ChemE -- maybe an ME? -- lots of our friends are dual engineering couples).

 

Dh chose to pursue an MBA after several years out of school, as did many of his friends (the company for which you work will often pay for this). Dh currently works with MEs and EEs with motors, which goes to show that you can end up unexpected places with a ChemE degree (and the MEs and EEs are impressed that he has a ChemE from Purdue -- they know that's a tougher degree). One pivotal point is that people see a ChemE degree and figure that the person has a decent level of intelligence, and can learn and adapt well.

 

Dh has worked in pharmaceuticals, brewing beer, and plastics.

 

Oh! I just realized Burleygirl gave a fantastic reply to this question. And you know what? It looks like the sort of reply a ChemE would write :lol:

Edited January 17, 2011 by GailV

[laundrycrisis]

I think many of the negatives I experienced might have been specific to certain industries, or certain companies, but I never had an engineering job that didn't have those same negatives, so I can't say for sure. But for all but the last year of my engineering career, I worked in oil...some in "medium" oil, and some in "big" oil. I went to a lot of training seminars specific to the industry and met engineers from all over the nation, and in the evenings, we "networked" and discussed our working conditions, and I found that what I was experiencing was pretty typical for the industry, not just my company, which was disheartening to me. To get out of those really demanding roles, you had to get out of process and project support and get into the financial/business positions.

 

I worked with quite a few engineers from Texas A&M. It's a good school. But any of the engineering schools in TX have the oil companies very involved in recruiting on those campuses. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone into a different industry. When you graduate in chemical engineering in that part of the country, it's more difficult to avoid the oil jobs because there are so many, but I wish I had made the effort to get into a different industry earlier. At the end, I did, but the food plant I worked in turned out to be even more hazardous and demanding than the refineries I had worked in...they had frequent fires, an employee had recently died in a fire there when I started, and a man was sprayed in the face with acid while I was there, because they didn't maintain their equipment. But in the food industry, I think perhaps it was specific to that particular company. Probably if I had pursued another job in food, it wouldn't have been that bad. Or perhaps a different industry again. I don't think they are all like oil.

[April in CA]

Thank you for the update, Laundrycrisis. (love that name by the way - I experience that myself from time to time :)) I am not sure which industry appeals most to my son - I don't think we are that far into the thinking process yet. Alternative fuels appeals to me, personally, along with bio-medical applications. My son was originally intrigued by chemistry when we met a young Air Force Officer who had studied chemistry at the Academy and is now getting his Masters in chem at UC San Diego. That young officer was in munitions - my son thought a career that involved learning how to blow things up sounded pretty nifty. I think his appreciation for chemistry has expanded beyond that, but blowing things up still appeals to him. :)

 

Thanks again for any and all comments and recommendations!

Blessings,

April

[laundrycrisis]

April, my brother is a bio-medical engineer. His original engineering discipline was mechanical, and then he earned a masters in biomedical engineering at Iowa State I believe. In his career, he went mostly into the area of artificial heart valves. He also has done work with blood filtration, dialysis technology, and perfusion technology. He said that beyond engineering, he had to learn a lot about human biology, and non-Newtonian fluid mechanics, because blood is a non-Newtonian fluid. It is also alive, and there are limits on the pressures and shear forces it can withstand without being damaged. It's a pretty specialized area of engineering but the work my brother has done has been incredibly interesting, with almost endless opportunities for learning, and also personally rewarding to him because what he does truly helps people. There are hazards associated with spending so much time in a lab full of blood, but they do as much work as they can with cow and pig blood before they test things with human blood, and that helps to minimize the risks.

[April in CA]

Thank you again to Laundrycrisis and Heigh Ho! Laundry, your brother's career path sounds really cool! My older son is studying mech eng right now (freshman) - I will mention the nifty bio-med stuff your brother is doing. Heigh Ho, thanks for the link - that camp looks very very cool!

Blessings,

April

[mommymilkies]

Personally, dh wishes he would have done music instead of chemistry. He's really good at what he does, but got burnt out with the pharmaceutical industry and research. He loves teaching, but chemistry positions are few and far between at community colleges nowadays (for tenure track).

[Gwen in VA]

One other option that is related to chemistry and chemical engineering -- materials science and engineering.

 

MSE is a cross between chemistry and chemical engineering, with some mechanical engineering and even some biology (depending on research interests) thrown in.

 

I started out as a chemistry major, switched to chem E, and then ended up in MSE.

 

My daughter, a senior in college, is graduating with a BS in chemistry but she will be going to grad school (PhD program!) next fall in MSE. Her interest, oddly enough, is art conservation science, and apparently chemistry and MSE are both routes into conservation science, with MSE looking a little more likely.

 

Many, though not all, engineering schools offer MSE. It is the ideal discipline for someone who can't quite decide if chemistry or engineering is the better route. :)

[April in CA]

Thank you Gwen and Mommymilkies! You have given me interesting things to think about and discuss with my son! I think materials science and engineering sounds really interesting, personally, and using that as a path to art restoration is fascinating! Gwen, where is your daughter going for her graduate work?

 

Thanks for sharing your husband's experience, Mommymilkies. I hope he is able to do some more teaching soon!

 

Thanks again for keeping me informed about what is a totally new field for me!

blessings,

April

[Gwen in VA]

Dd is still waiting to hear from a few grad schools, and she is starting to visit various grad schools that have accepted her. Decisions, decisions.......

Edited February 28, 2011 by Gwen in VA

[readwithem]

Since it looks like your ds might be NMF, I would look at Univ of Tulsa. They have a good chem engineering program, and offer full ride to NMF.

[April in CA]

Thanks for that tip and the link! I will definitely check it out1

blessings,

April

[distancia]

My DH has an MS Chem. His undergrad was in zoology but he had high chem grades and loved chemistry, so that's what he went to grad school for.

 

While a graduate student and a TA he also spent his spare(!) time studying law. He decided to go into law and after completing his MS he went to law school to study civil law. Around the same time he took the bar exam he also took the Patent Law exam and passed--this, without having taken a single patent law class. He had been reading the textbooks all along, since his chemistry days.

 

As life throws curve balls dh ended up being a city attorney for years and years, despite having received numerous offers to practice patent law, a very lucrative field and one that interests the "tinkering" type.

 

Dh really liked Chemistry but on a cautionary note, he was super careless in the lab (like so many young men who think they are immortal) and he messed around with some nasty chemicals that have caused health problems in later life. Something to think about.

[mommymilkies]

 

Dh really liked Chemistry but on a cautionary note, he was super careless in the lab (like so many young men who think they are immortal) and he messed around with some nasty chemicals that have caused health problems in later life. Something to think about.

 

This is really important. Organic Chemists, in particular has a high rate of cancer outcomes. At least that we have known (and that's a LOT).

[mommy4ever]

I can't answer from personal experience, but I have 2 friends that have degrees in Chemistry. One a Masters, the other her Doctorate.

 

They both currently work as crime scene investigators. Due to differences in education, they are at different 'levels' within the force.

 

Prior to working for the police(federal level), one work for a large oil company, she analyzed various samples that came through the lab.

 

They both absolutely love being CSI. They are both in the lab, one does court appearances, neither goes to the scene itself at this point.

[mommymilkies]

I can't answer from personal experience, but I have 2 friends that have degrees in Chemistry. One a Masters, the other her Doctorate.

 

They both currently work as crime scene investigators. Due to differences in education, they are at different 'levels' within the force.

 

Prior to working for the police(federal level), one work for a large oil company, she analyzed various samples that came through the lab.

 

They both absolutely love being CSI. They are both in the lab, one does court appearances, neither goes to the scene itself at this point.

 

We also had a friend who went the same route after working in pharmaceuticals for several years. Do know that it is an intensive process to get a CSI job. You will be heavily scrutinized and it can take years to get in.

[mommy4ever]

For her it was a 6 month process. She had to provide every possible violation of law she has ever been cited for, parking tickets, speeding tickets, any thing that involved the police. Then it was an 18 mo 'trial' period. I don't know about the other gal, she's been there for years, it seems almost right out of university.

 

They are SO happy with what they are doing, so I thought I'd share. It isn't a really high paying job though. The one took a 45% pay cut to do it, from what she'd been earning with the oil company. But you can't put a price on happiness, she is very happy there.

[mommymilkies]

For her it was a 6 month process. She had to provide every possible violation of law she has ever been cited for, parking tickets, speeding tickets, any thing that involved the police. Then it was an 18 mo 'trial' period. I don't know about the other gal, she's been there for years, it seems almost right out of university.

 

They are SO happy with what they are doing, so I thought I'd share. It isn't a really high paying job though. The one took a 45% pay cut to do it, from what she'd been earning with the oil company. But you can't put a price on happiness, she is very happy there.

 

Amen on that!