SeekingSimplicity Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 While we're talking about religions, I thought I'd ask. Are there any Friends here? I've been interested for a while now, and have gone to a handful of meetings. I have a hard time getting to the meetings so can't go with any regularity. But I've enjoyed it the few times that I've been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jld Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Would you be willing to share with us what you've enjoyed about the meetings? Is there anything specific that draws you to the Quaker faith, SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekingSimplicity Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 One thing that I like is that the group I went to is very seeker friendly, which I need right now. They believe that the light of God shines in all men, and that we should look for that light. There is not really any dogma. Men and women are equal. There's no dressing up to go to first day meetings, and simplicity is embraced. The group I attended is an unprogramed meeting, so it is held in silence. You sit quietly and listen. Have you ever heard the saying (concerning meditation) that if prayer is talking to God, meditation is listening to God? I like to think of it in this way. You sit and listen for God. If anyone feels moved to speak they may. There are queries you can got through to decide if what you are hearing needs to be spoken or what your thinking is just your mind.. ego.. whatever. Communion is in the form of a meal after silence. Someone always brings/bakes a loaf of bread to be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I am a friend of Friends, lol. I am actually suprised there aren't more here. Many of the Quakers I know personally are homeschoolers. I also know a fair number who are not, to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I am a Quaker. In America there are two types of Meeting, one type with a pastor, the other unprogrammed. In NZ we have unprogrammed meetings. We meet in silence and anyone may speak if they feel led to do so. There is no creed or articles of faith, but the majority of Friends believe or at least support the 4 basic tenants (although one is not required to do so) Peace Integrity Equality Simplicity. What would you like to know? I will do my best to answer, but I can only speak for myself. Quaker experience is collected in their writing in a book called Faith and Practice, and refers to how a particular Friend may have dealt with a particular situation or how they felt God in their lives, but Quakers believe in not imposing their beliefs upon others so the writings may or may not speak to you. It seems like I am rambling, but if anyone is interested i will try and answer questions. Willow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 You may have heard of David Albert, homeschooling dad and author 'Skylark sings with me' 'Have Fun, Learn stuff,Grow' who is also a Quaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jld Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thanks, Willow. Were you brought up a Quaker, or did you convert? What keeps you in your faith? To be honest, I'd enjoy hearing whatever you feel like sharing about your religion.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 To be honest, I'd enjoy hearing whatever you feel like sharing about your religion.:) Me too. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarinesWife Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Me too. :001_smile: Me three. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 We've been attending a different church since we moved here 16 years ago... but I'm still more Quaker than anything else. :) I grew up attending an unprogrammed meeting, and went to a Friends school for 6th-8th grades. I'd be happy to answer questions too, although as Willow says, I can only speak for myself -- there is no "typical Quaker"... lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 My very extended family is Quaker, the kind with a pastor. We go to reunions every 2 years and go to their church while there. I'm Anglican but the sermon always does speak to me. It's always funny in the letter we get before the reunion, Uncle Bob always says that if we want to give the sermon that day, we're most welcome to. Funny story, when mom was little, her mom took her to visit this side of the family, but didn't warn mom about the silence. I guess it was an "unprogrammed" group then. After about 20 minutes, mom stood up on the pew and said as loud as she could "What the heck is everyone so quiet for?" Gramma was mortified! Men and women also sat on opposite sides of the church then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesing Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I grew up in the Quaker Church and have several family members who are still Friends. My home church is programmed -- it employs a minister. We now live in an area of the U.S. where there are no Friends meetings, and so we recently joined another denomination. But I still consider myself a Quaker at heart. I really miss the Quakers' emphasis on silence and listening for the voice of God. So many other denominations are filled with noise . . . I also really appreciate the Quakers' view of sacraments. I think that disagreements over communion and baptism can cause division in churches and divert one's attention from the Holy Spirit. Although I personally find the sacraments meaningful and participate in them in my current church, I would not miss them if I were able to attend a Quaker meeting. I find the Quaker silence to be more meaningful than traditional communion (which always seems to be accompanied by music -- ack!). I also love Quakers' emphasis on the light of God within everyone. I have always admired Quakers for their historical roles in ending slavery and in seeking equal rights for women. I appreciate that women have been called as Quaker ministers for many years. It is my understanding that in recent times, certain branches of the Quaker Church seem to rely on the Bible less and less. I've read reports of some Quaker meetings that have, for example, crossed out the name of God in their hymnals so that they don't offend people. That really bothers me, and I don't think that this is what George Fox intended when he founded the Quakers. My home church is a member of one of the more conservative branches of the Quaker Church, and my beliefs reflect that. I hope that is helpful in some way! Lynne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Sorry it has taken a while to get back to you all, the time difference means that things move on when i am asleep. Great to 'meet' other Friends on here too. Hello Friends! :) And for those not Quaker or Quaker attenders we say Ffriends to include everyone, Quakers or not. We were actually Methodist when i was born, Baptist when my older sister was born and Quaker when my younger brother was born. As there are only 3 years and 9 days between us all in age you can see how quickly my parents rotated through churches. As we were growing up i attended (in no particular order, and some we were with for maybe a year, others only weeks, some we cycled back to or attended another church of the same denomination in another town...we moved a lot too) here goes....Methodist, Baptist, Quaker, Catholic, Church of England, Congregational, Congregational fellowship, Buddhist temple, Raj Yogi, 2 different home groups/house churches, United Reform, Salvation Army. Phew. I may have missed one or two, but I am sure this gives you an idea. All this was a lot of Church 'noise'. Each church was different, in services structure and even in what God or gods, they worshiped. When I grew up I didn't feel I had any particular faith, but my favorite church when growing up was the Quakers. My memory was of quiet friendly people, and yummy lunches. I was a kid remember. ;) When I was in my mid 20's I contacted the local Friends and never looked back. The main thing that brought me back was the acceptance of all. All contain the light of God, all are equally valuable, and also the fact there is no creed or articles of belief. I had no idea what I believed! I feel that some of the churches I had attended had an us and them feeling. If you join us and believe this creed then you are 'in'. Being 'in' is nice but by its very definition it means others are 'out'. I never had this feeling with Quakers, all are welcome. Yes one may join, but this does not make you more or less 'in' or 'out' (but it might make people ask you to do more jobs ;)) Yes, I too have noticed some Quakers drifting away from God. But this is OK I expect God isn't drifting away from them. And sometimes Quakers spend so much time being accepting and inclusive they begin to loose their integrity, which is an important part of being a Quaker. But then don't we all make mistakes? A friend got up in our meeting recently and asked if 'Jesus' was becoming a banned word in meeting, as He was so rarely mentioned in testimony. This led to several other thoughtful testimonies that morning. In general Quakers i have met seem to be more God and Holy Sprit centered than Jesus centered. But that is OK too. I love the silence in Meeting for Worship. I love listening for God. Sometimes my mind wanders of course, and sometimes, of course, people get up to speak seemingly just to hear their own voice. But if you try to listen for God in what they say He is usually there. Sometimes I get cross when it seems that Quakers have a concern for everyone (prisoners, their families, people in war torn areas, work for peace, work for justice etc etc ) that they seem to forget the children right there in meeting, under their noses. This is getting long (we Quakers are a wordy bunch!) In peace, Willow. PS Willow is not my real name, and therefore not in line with the Truth testimony of Quakers. Speaking the truth and the internet may be an interesting debate for Quakers! Edited January 2, 2011 by Willow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thank you all for offering to answer questions! This is most interesting to me. I just looked at the 5 basic beliefs of Calvinism and am in an exploratory mood. Do Quakers base their beliefs on the Bible? What is their stance on live after death? Is it in any way related to the Amish or Mennonite history of faith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I am a friend of Friends, lol. I am actually suprised there aren't more here. Many of the Quakers I know personally are homeschoolers. I also know a fair number who are not, to be fair. :iagree: When we were looking at schools, we very seriously considered a Friends school. We are not Quaker, we are UU. But could probably fit in well in a Friends community as well. Maybe more quakers tend to be waldorf/unschool types. We lean relaxed compared to plenty on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thank you all for offering to answer questions! This is most interesting to me. I just looked at the 5 basic beliefs of Calvinism and am in an exploratory mood. Do Quakers base their beliefs on the Bible? What is their stance on live after death? Is it in any way related to the Amish or Mennonite history of faith? Hi, Not Quaker here, but studied years ago. Definitely defer to Willow, but here's what I learned as an outsider, (and an Evangelical Christian at the time I was researching). No, there is no history shared with the Amish and Mennonites. They have very little in common. Quakers don't have any sacraments--baptism, communion, etc. It is believed that everyone has the light within them, and that there is no ritual that makes them closer to Jesus Christ. As far as Biblical belief. The Bible is not viewed as equal to the leading of the Spirit in people's lives. One should seek the Spirit first, and the Bible second. The Spirit is the primary teacher, and they believe in continuing revelation through the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not "inerrant" as conservative Christians would see it. As far as "life after death" it depends. Some conservative Quakers might hold views similar to Protestants, some wouldn't believe in it at all. There is no "creed" for Quakerism, so that can be tricky. Most Quakers seem happy to leave that in God's hands. The idea of preaching a gospel of Heaven and Hell is not really a part of Quakerism. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesing Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The Quaker Meeting in which I grew up definitely looks to the Bible AND the Holy Spirit for wisdom. In fact, one of the most devout Quakers in our church never brings her Bible to church. Her idea is that you should study it so well during the week that you know it by heart on Sunday morning. The minister bases his sermons on Biblical texts, and sometimes scripture is recited during the silent communion. The Quakers I know definitely believe that Christians go to heaven after death. The idea of hell is not emphasized, however. We are content to leave that in God's hands. Another interesting Quaker tradition is that meetings make decisions by seeking consensus, rather than by taking a vote. For example, they might discuss whether or not to pave the church parking lot for months and months, with everyone seeking the Spirit's leading, until members can agree on the best course of action. This drove my Methodist-reared mother insane! :001_smile: Willow mentioned Quakers' truth testimony. Friends are known for "letting their yes mean yes and their no mean no." They refuse to swear on the Bible in a court of law, for example, for they should always be speaking the truth. I use that quote with my own kids when discussing honesty. Lynne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 No, there is no history shared with the Amish and Mennonites. They have very little in common. Actually I think there was some shared history -- not that Quakers are descended from Mennonites or vice versa but that they had some interactions way back... like 17th century way back. Also there are some more modern overlaps - pacifism is a major one, and (to different extents) simplicity of dress. I'm not sure about Mennonite and Amish beliefs regarding the swearing of oaths, but that might be another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Another interesting Quaker tradition is that meetings make decisions by seeking consensus, rather than by taking a vote. For example, they might discuss whether or not to pave the church parking lot for months and months, with everyone seeking the Spirit's leading, until members can agree on the best course of action. I'm not Quaker myself (Jewish) but went to a Quaker college and later did a lengthy international service project through a different Quaker college. How to work towards consensus was hands-down the most valuable thing I've ever learned. It's so difficult, not to mention UNBELIEVABLY time-consuming and frequently maddening, but incredibly useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thank you all for offering to answer questions! This is most interesting to me. I just looked at the 5 basic beliefs of Calvinism and am in an exploratory mood. Do Quakers base their beliefs on the Bible? What is their stance on live after death? Is it in any way related to the Amish or Mennonite history of faith? It's a religion that is based on an individual relationship to God... so there is no single list of Quaker beliefs. Lots of Quakers (even "liberal" Quakers) consider themselves very conservative Christians, only their understanding of the bible might not match with what other conservative Christians take from it. The Sermon on the Mount is pretty central to a lot of what is considered Quaker beliefs (again allowing for lots of individual variation...) But as previous posters have said the individual relationship to God is also very important. And most of the Quakers I grew up with are universalists - not that "anything goes" but that God is a loving and forgiving God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 :iagree: When we were looking at schools, we very seriously considered a Friends school. We are not Quaker, we are UU. But could probably fit in well in a Friends community as well. Maybe more quakers tend to be waldorf/unschool types. We lean relaxed compared to plenty on this board. I think you're right that a lot of Quakers are unschooly (and maybe some are Waldorfy, although there are religious aspects of Waldorf that others would find very troublesome)... but I'm probably one of the least-relaxed homeschoolers ever! (Not uptight mind you, just very happy with lots of structure!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Actually I think there was some shared history -- not that Quakers are descended from Mennonites or vice versa but that they had some interactions way back... like 17th century way back. Also there are some more modern overlaps - pacifism is a major one, and (to different extents) simplicity of dress. I'm not sure about Mennonite and Amish beliefs regarding the swearing of oaths, but that might be another. Ah, you're right in terms of Anabaptists not swearing oaths or taking up arms. The Anabaptists refer to "non-resistance" while Quakers typically seem to call it "pacifism." Most Anabaptists do not care for the term "pacifism". There are certain overlaps between the two groups (Quakers and Anabaptists), but overall, folks tend to think of Quakers as a sort of "plain" groups and relate them to Mennonites and Amish, but they're _very_ distinct from one another. Quakers and Mennonites do not share a history. They came from countries and cultures and were inspired by different events/beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think you're right that a lot of Quakers are unschooly (and maybe some are Waldorfy, although there are religious aspects of Waldorf that others would find very troublesome)... but I'm probably one of the least-relaxed homeschoolers ever! (Not uptight mind you, just very happy with lots of structure!) Sorry - I'm definitely not trying to stereotype at all and I'm very happy to see more Quakers here (from a UU). A "real" unschooler would call us extremely structured. :D I do know some UUs that's do Waldorf without the relgious overtones that real Waldorf schools might have. Many UU's would feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It's a religion that is based on an individual relationship to God... so there is no single list of Quaker beliefs. Lots of Quakers (even "liberal" Quakers) consider themselves very conservative Christians, only their understanding of the bible might not match with what other conservative Christians take from it. And most of the Quakers I grew up with are universalists - not that "anything goes" but that God is a loving and forgiving God. Yes, you're quite right. My apologies for misrepresenting you there. Maybe I should have said, "conservative Evangelicals" or the like :) T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Funny, yes we are waldorfy! Dh is a Waldorf teacher....but we are the only Waldorf family at Meeting As people have pointed out already, it is very hard to say 'this is what Quakers believe' simply because we do not lay rules or forms upon ourselves or others. I am going to copy some quotes from the front of Questions and Counsel (the NZ version) "The historical basis of friends practices lies in 17th-centuary England. George Fox, the principal founder of Quakerism, sought religious truth through prayer and Bible-reading, and was grieved by what he saw as the failures of professing Christians of his time. After much traveling and listening to priests and preachers, he lost all hope of help from men. Then one day, when sitting alone, he became conscious of the presence of God's Sprit within himself, directly answering his needs and giving him hope, power and understanding. When he spread this message that the divine Spirit was active within all human beings, his words spoke to the experience of other seekers. With their keen response, the Quaker movement took form in the 1650's." Questions and Counsel (also called Questions and Queries) has the first sentence from an epistle issued by elders at Balby, Yorkshire in 1656. "Dearly Beloved Friends, these things we do not lay upon you as a rule or form to walk by, but that all, with the measure of light that is pure and holy, may be guided; and so in the light walking and abiding, these things may be fulfilled in the Spirit, not from the letter, for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." There then follows a number of questions to help Quakers in their daily life, the answers, of course, come from listening to the promoting of the Spirit. Many are long but some are short. To give an example; "Do you always use the guidance of the Spirit when seeking the truth?" " We have a testimony to honesty and plain speaking. Be utterly scrupulous both in personal relationships and in dealing with business firms and government departments. Taking oaths sets a double standard of truth: ask to affirm instead." These are 2 at random, and are not rules, but rather guidings. I've not counted them but there are maybe 30 or so. We also have a book Quaker Faith and Practice, this is huge and there is an NZ one as well as the UK one and I expect Americans have their own version too. This is a book containing writings by Quakers since the 17th century about how they met and dealt with situations. Again not rules, but extracts that say...I met this problem and was led to deal with in in this way. It also covers Quaker business including finding consensus. We have been trying to build a new Children's room for almost 15 years...... So rather than rules we have questions and counsel and the writings of those who trod this path before us. All we can do is consider those things and do as we feel led by Spirit to do. On another tack, my father is seriously ill (esophageal cancer) and I am leaving the southern hemisphere in its mid summer, to travel half way around the world to North Yorkshire in the UK, in less than 24 hours time. So i do not expect to be on this forum again after today for several weeks. So I will not be able to update this thread after today. If you feel led to hold me in the light, whilst I travel, and my father who has lost his faith, and pray he may be lead back to the light, I would be very grateful. Willow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sorry I missed the question of life after death. I don't know if there is life after death, but I hope... Most Quakers leave this question to God, but also most don't seem to worry about Hell. Sufficient unto the day etc. I don't worry. I'm with Julian of Norwich (writing in the 14th century) who asked God how things could be well if 'many creatures will be dammed'? and who received the reply from God "What is impossible for you is not impossible for me. I shall honour my word in everything and i shall make everything well." Willow. (again only speaking for herself, and not Quakers in general.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 On another tack, my father is seriously ill (esophageal cancer) and I am leaving the southern hemisphere in its mid summer, to travel half way around the world to North Yorkshire in the UK, in less than 24 hours time. So i do not expect to be on this forum again after today for several weeks. So I will not be able to update this thread after today. If you feel led to hold me in the light, whilst I travel, and my father who has lost his faith, and pray he may be lead back to the light, I would be very grateful. Willow. Please have a safe journey! You and your father will be in my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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