WWYD, those who are familia with academia? Talk to me about bell-curves, please?

[Halftime Hope]

:rant:

 

So ds is taking a CS class dual credit at the univ where he will start fulltime as a freshman next year. This class is a required part of the engineering majors. He has scholarships that are renewable based on GPA, and the GPA requirement gets higher the junior and senior years.

 

His prof has been all over the board in the way he has presented the class requirements--no plan, no syllabus, no consistency, lots of polling the class on how they want their grade made up, when to schedule tests, etc. He told the class the day *after* census day, so they could no longer drop without it appearing on their transcript as a drop (they can only drop 9 hours throughout their entire college career), that they had better study hard, as last year he failed 75% of the class.

 

So ds has studied very hard and has been making good grades. So far he has over a 100% average, when you factor in the weighting of the hmwk with bonus points. He is seventh in class rank out of ~40. So Tuesday, the prof says that the final grades will be a combo of their scores and their class rank. Ds has concluded that this is going to be a bell-curve deal, that the prof will probably only give out six As, many more Bs and Cs, although he hasn't stated that explicitly.

 

I have a real problem with a bell curve being applied and with a kid's grade being arbitrarily adjusted based on class numbers. A work is A work. If you have too many As, then you adjust the work to be harder or score things more stringently.

 

This should have been a class that was a straightforward A for ds; and it really matters toward his GPA, which will matter in his being able to keep scholarship money.

 

Help?? how would you handle this?

 

Thank you!!

 

Valerie

[Jane in NC]

Valerie,

 

The schools at which I have taught have required that students be given a syllabus illustrating grading procedures on Day One. Now there might be some tweaking involved--usually in favor of the students--but the general scheme is laid out in the beginning.

 

Does this university have such a policy? If so, you have reason to complain to a department chair or dean.

 

By the way, individual faculty often have great leeway in assigning grades. There are no rules which say that one must give any high marks--but if 75% of the students consistently fail the course, it is a sign of poor teaching. Again, that is reason for a complaint.

 

Jane

[Gwen in VA]

Wow -- I have never heard of a prof curving DOWNWARDS!

 

I attended an engineering school, and I remember one course (that was graded on a bellcurve) where the class average was below 50. The standard deviation was so big that a student could have an average below 0 and still get a D!!!!!

 

I would definitely follow Nan's advice and not take the grade passively. Your student should talk with the prof if he isn't happy with it, and then the dept head and then.....

 

Best wishes -- Please let us know how this works out!

[Linda in NM]

I teach online at a couple of universities; we have to grade "down"--we have to have strict grading policies in place so that not all the students in the world get As...grade inflation. My students don't--others I know have to take special workshops. I clearly specify my expectations (what equals an A, etc.) If the student earns the A, he or she gets the A. I have no sympathy for those students who whine about ruining their GPAs, but don't do the work (not that any homeschool students would do that, I hope!)

[Pamela H in Texas]

But Linda....a student with a cumulative grade about 100% not getting an A, which sounds possible in this case, does seem wrong, doesn't it?

 

I don't agree with grade inflation, but students scoring WAY high shouldn't have to worry that they won't make an A just because there happen to be several students ALSO scoring way high.

[Halftime Hope]

I teach online at a couple of universities; we have to grade "down"--we have to have strict grading policies in place so that not all the students in the world get As...grade inflation.

 

Linda, I understand what you are saying. University policy states that 90-100% constitutes a A. That's where the adjustment should be made, in the percentages given on work all along; if a prof doesn't want to have everyone in the class making As, he should either grade harder, or give harder work.

 

I clearly specify my expectations (what equals an A, etc.) If the student earns the A, he or she gets the A. Herein lies the problem, the syllabus states the percentage of the grade assigned for homework, programming, quizzes and tests. There is no mention that these would then be adjusted up or down to fit a bell curve. The mention of the class rank adjustment came on Tuesday, in the next to last week of class.

 

I have no sympathy for those students who whine about ruining their GPAs, but don't do the work (not that any homeschool students would do that, I hope!) Good for you! Neither do I. They need to be prepared for the real world. But did you read my note? He has over a 100% average so far...he's been doing the work.

 

 

This prof has renigged (spelling error, I'm sure) on a commitment he made to ds already once. Even the TA tried to intercede on ds' behalf, b/c the prof didn't keep his word. I'm in a real bind, because if ds were to raise a flag in any way, I'm afraid he might find a way to either score ds' final badly, such that there would be no way to protest, or he might adjust the difficulty of the final so that everyone's grade went down tremendously. Based on what I know from experience with guy already, I don't trust him.

 

Ick, ick, ick!

[Alice]

Not sure what to tell you to do but we were graded like this in med school. The % needed for a "A" changed depending on what people scored...only a certain percentage could ever get an "A". Not only was it frustrating but it created even more competition than already existed. Hard to help someone else when you know your own grade could be hurt if they ended up doing better!

 

I think some professors get a kick out of being known as difficult (probably why this guy bragged about failing 75% of the class). I would say study as hard as he can for this test and do as well as he can and then avoid classes with this guy in the future.

[Linda in NM]

I've never had a student earn 100%, so I don't know...but I do know that my students who earn 97% earn their As...and those who earn 85% earn their Bs...

[Linda in NM]

Sounds like grounds for appealing to a higher authority...if you have the 100% proof...that's what I'd do in that situation.

[Halftime Hope]

I've never had a student earn 100%, so I don't know...but I do know that my students who earn 97% earn their As...and those who earn 85% earn their Bs...

 

I think a prof should make it very, very difficult to earn 100%, so that kids can count on what they've been getting all along.

 

FWIW, I don't like curving grades *up* either.

 

Thanks for you input -- if I were one of your students, I'd appreciate your consistency. ;)

[JFSinIL]

I HATE bell curves - particularly in colleges where the students are already cream of the crop kids or they would not have been accepted!!! If a college only takes the top 10% of a high school class - the kids who always do "A" work - then a bell curve, to me, makes no sense. It only is usable in the general population, where you really would only expect to find a certain percentage of "A"s, a larger clump of "B"s, and the biggest group "C"s, etc. In colleges it should ONLY be the standard 90 - 100 A, 80 - 90 B etc. and it is up to the kids to do the work well to get the A.

Just my two cents after attending community colleges, state university, private college, then UCLA and finally Northwestern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Linda in NM]

Well, to play devil's advocate...the standards at the more competitive colleges should be higher, so professors should expect more quality work from students who wish to earn an A. Therefore, the bell curve would apply...and if the student were willing to settle for a less-rigorous academic environment, the standards would, presumably, be lower.

[Amy in NH]

...the standards at the more competitive colleges should be higher, so professors should expect more quality work from students who wish to earn an A. Therefore, the bell curve would apply...

 

That just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I would expect more challenging work at a more competitive college. But work should be graded against a standard of expectation for the finished product, preferably using an objective rubric, not adjusted after the fact to fit some artificial curve. As a student, your correct work should stand on it's own merit, not be judged against someone else's correct work.