How do you know your expectations are challenging or even grade level appropriate?

[creekmom]

I posted this on the high school forum and got some interesting responses. If you're piecing together your own curriculum, how do you know that you are truly challenging your dc for their grade level? At the very least, we should be certain they are grade level appropriate.... right? I believe the classical model seems to be behind grade level in it's expectations for the younger years (not as much writing required, or critical thinking skills, etc.), but then it far surpasses the ps in the logic/rhetoric stage. What are your ideas?

[Night Elf]

I believe it depends on the direction you plan to go with high school. For us, we use an accredited traditional virtual high school. I just need to make sure my children are ready for 9th grade work. Dd12 will begin her high school classes in May probably. She'll be 13. She's ready right now to be honest, but she's in some other classes and I don't know if it would all be too much.

 

I made some mistakes with her along the way though. I kept putting her in materials that were below her level. No matter what I tried, it just wasn't challenging enough. The straw that broke the camel's back was K12's 5th and 6th grade History that we started at the beginning of this school year. I knew the worksheets would be beneath her but the actual Joy Hakim books are excellent and ds14 thoroughly enjoyed them at ages 11 and 12. Then I was going to have her do all the writing assignments. Well, it was just plain boring to her because it was all way, way too easy. So, high school it is for her! And thus ends my era of buying curriculum. It's rather a sad thought really. I miss their younger days. :)

[robsiew]

I think this comes down to philosophy. Some will want high challenge and rigor from the get-go. Others ease their kids into it. It also depends on your definition of "challenging".

 

In our case, it's more important to me to create an excellent foundation for my kids. My 4th grader is not writing 5 paragraph essays yet (thus some may say he's not being "challenged"). That's okay with me. Could he do it? Probably. Would forcing the issue turn him off to writing? Yup. Eventually, I will put him up to any PS kid and my guess is he'll out write them. He reads above grade level and works above grade level in math. We don't do "tests" in science and history, rather I'm just trying to expose them to as much as I can in a fun way. I don't care if they don't remember everything.

 

My ds6 is extremely bright. I'm probably not "challenging" him as much as he could be... but he's 6! I want him to be a kid while he can. There will be plenty of time for academic stuff, but only a short while they can be kids.

 

It took some "retraining" of my public school teacher mind to come to these conclusions. Basically, it all boils down to what you believe education is and if "challenging" your kids is what is most important. Yes, they need to not be bored, but you have to decide yourself how far to go.

 

We are required to standardized test so I guess that's one measurement of "grade level" however, it's rather irrelevant from my viewpoint because my kids are not learning the same things or the same way as other kids in their grade level. Grade level is irrelevant in my mind. Not everyone subscribes to this!

[Crimson Wife]

I believe the classical model seems to be behind grade level in it's expectations for the younger years (not as much writing required, or critical thinking skills, etc.), but then it far surpasses the ps in the logic/rhetoric stage.

 

Just because the government-run schools are doing a particular thing, doesn't automatically mean that it's "grade-appropriate". In fact, I would say that quite a bit of what the government-run schools are doing in the primary grades is developmentally inappropriate. Full-day, worksheet-heavy kindergarten is touted by the schools in my area as "rigor" but I just want to smack those folks upside the head with a copy of Better Late than Early by Dr. Raymond Moore. :tongue_smilie:

[mcconnellboys]

I used Hirsch's book series What Your ________ Grader Needs to Know when I first started out. Some folks use the grade level requirements for their states but in trying to peruse ours, I found them such a useless garble of junk that they were really not of any value to me. They didn't *say* anything....

 

I also use standardized testing periodically, about every other year, to make sure we are on track. I don't really need this, though, as I know we are on track. If you're covering the amount of material we're covering and discussing it, writing about it, testing at home periodically, etc., then you know where you are at by the end of the year.

 

I guess if everyone adherred stringently to the classical mode of just having children write dictation or copywork in the elementary years, and did not have them do any other form of writing at all, then it might be considered that they were "behind". But I think you see them reap the benefits of that work as soon as they get to logic stage and begin writing more of their own things, unless they have some sort of disability with regard to writing (as my youngest does). And I think most folks who have children who can do any sort of writing at all are allowing them to do that even during the grammar stage. I don't think they are purposefully holding them back....

 

I don't think that there's much value in the sort of "critical thinking" that is done in public schools. Most of it seems to be geared toward asking kids to evaluate and give opinions on things before they've learned anything about the subject at hand. It's just random fishing in the dark. Occasionally, someone might hit upon something of value, but they don't have the tools they need in order to make appropriate judgments, in general, so it's usually just a big shell game.... If critical thinking skills are to be taught, there's a right and a wrong way to do that....

[regentrude]

I believe the classical model seems to be behind grade level in it's expectations for the younger years (not as much writing required, or critical thinking skills, etc.), but then it far surpasses the ps in the logic/rhetoric stage. What are your ideas?

 

My kids attended a public elementary school. We liked the school and the teachers, the kids were happy.

They did not, however, do a lot of writing or do anything where the students had to think critically. Anything I have read about classical education seems to be more challenging on an elementary level.

[Jamee]

My kids attended a public elementary school. We liked the school and the teachers, the kids were happy.

They did not, however, do a lot of writing or do anything where the students had to think critically. Anything I have read about classical education seems to be more challenging on an elementary level.

 

I'll agree with this. We pulled DS half way through 4th grade and one of his biggest complaints about school was not having all subjects, all the time, particularly when it came to science and history--his favorite subjects. While in PS, he didn't get any grammar instruction either so I'm really having to play catch up there. (DH is even finding this to be an issue with his 6th graders.) He did some writing, but not enough to make him proficient. The more I look into classical education the better I like it and the more I wished it was used as a model for all schools.

[Mandy in TN]

I would like to preface this by saying that some of my answers would be different for a high schooler and even for the 2 years prior to high school when you are ramping up. This information only applies to the younger years.

 

If you're piecing together your own curriculum, how do you know that you are truly challenging your dc for their grade level? At the very least, we should be certain they are grade level appropriate.... right?

Challenging would mean that the child is capable of doing the work, but that effort/ concentration must be used to accomplish the task. All of a child's work should not be challenging. Imagine trying to learn new information if it is all presented at the upper reaches of your skill level.;) Survey subjects like science and history do not need to be challenging a child's reading ability or writing ability. In language arts reading for pleasure should not be challenging reading. You don't teach a new challenging math topic every lesson.

 

Uh, what is grade level and who is deciding what is appropriate for that grade level?

I will assume that you are talking about the manufacture date (dob) that is stamped on my dc's forehead that the state uses to dictate what grade my dc should be in. I will also assume that you are talking about what the state has dictated is appropriate for teaching that age range child. If this is the case, then frankly they are not doing such a hot job so I will take their opinions of what is appropriate with a grain of salt.:tongue_smilie:

 

This is pail filling mentality and if you are going to take that approach with every subject all the time in the education of your child, at least make sure that you are filling the pail with things that are useful and beautiful. For most people this probably will not be accomplished by looking at the state scope and sequence and using it as a check list.

 

I believe the classical model seems to be behind grade level in it's expectations for the younger years (not as much writing required, or critical thinking skills, etc.), but then it far surpasses the ps in the logic/rhetoric stage. What are your ideas?

How a specific model of education is implemented can vary greatly from one homeschool to the next. I have known an unschooling family whose child was pursuing topics in a very rigorous and challenging manner and traditional homeschoolers whose children have gone through grade level material with very little joy or interest. However, for the sake of argument I will say that I agree that in the early years (k-2) most classical homeschoolers that I know do not require as much writing as some of the private schools. In my opinion, this isn't a bad thing. Having a child write, write, write when they cannot spell or read well is illogical and could even be counterproductive.

 

What are your ideas?

Individualized education in a homeschool environment is an incredible way to have a child's education meet them where they are and move them in any direction the family determines best meets their goals. I feel so fortunate in this. My little man can use a math curriculum ahead of grade level. He can use a language arts program designed for gifted students. He can use a science program that contains suggestions at various academic levels so when the interest is there I can give suggests and when it is not he can just keep moving along. He can look at topics in history without using any curriculum and going only as deep as his interest. He can do all this in an environment where we don't have to worry about the politics of the school. Oh, I also love that we can do this where he is allowed to get enough sleep and see his father.

 

 

HTH-

Mandy

Edited November 8, 2010 by Mandy in TN

[khall]

At the very least, we should be certain they are grade level appropriate.... right?

 

I don't really buy into the idea of ensuring that they are grade level appropriate (whatever that means...ask 10 different people and you'll get 10 different responses :tongue_smilie:). My goal is to make consistent progress in all subject areas. That might not be working at grade level, it might be working ahead or behind based on the child.

[elise1mds]

My DD still attends a private school, and a lot of times work from the older classes will be hung up in the hall on bulletin boards. I also have a personal friend who teaches second grade in our area. Between those two and DS's friends who go to yet another school district, I have a pretty good frame of reference for what kids around here are learning. I feel pretty good about where DS is, even if we don't do tons of worksheets. ;)

[Jayne J]

Mine are still very young, so take my answer for what it is worth...

 

If your dc is throwing his pencil across the room and sobbing in frustration, the material is too challenging and needs to be scaled back. If he is using said pencil to pick his nose or create interesting gouges in the table, the material is too easy and he is bored. Ramp it up.

 

Really, (IMHO) the only things you need to get straight are *your* philosophy of education (what is the goal of a good education and what is the purpose of man, etc.) and an ability to gauge your child. The first helps you know what to teach and how, and the second lets you know how fast to go.

 

So, all you need to do is figure out the meaning of life, the universe and everything, and the rest is cake...:D

[debbielong]

How do you know if you are challenging your child?

 

You don't always know perfectly. But, you still know better than anyone else:).

[kalanamak]

I used Hirsch's book series What Your ________ Grader Needs to Know when I first started out. .

 

I use these books, plus a standardized test yearly, plus covering what is advised in WTM. If kiddo is behind in anything, we cover it a little more often, and I try to do some enrichment in it. It seems like it like cross country skiing....first one slides ahead, then the other, then the first.

[emilia]

This has been an interested thread. I have nothing particular to add but wanted to come out of lurkdom. I am attending a HS meeting this month that deals with standardized testing (I think it might be mandatory here in PA). The "age appropriate and developmentally ready" topic is always on my mind. I only began HS this summer and already changed curriculum. Whew!

[....]

I only began HS this summer and already changed curriculum. Whew!

 

I think that's really common - from all the parents I've talked to... I think it takes a while to get the hang of things and find what resources you like and don't like.

[katilac]

If your dc is throwing his pencil across the room and sobbing in frustration, the material is too challenging and needs to be scaled back. If he is using said pencil to pick his nose or create interesting gouges in the table, the material is too easy and he is bored. Ramp it up.

 

 

The Pencil Theory of Rigor, you should copyright that . . .

[Snowfall]

I can tell if it's challenging enough, and other than making sure we are diligent, there's nothing I can do about whether she's at grade level. If something is too easy, it's obvious. If it's too hard, it's obvious. If DD falls behind her appropriate grade level in something, despite us working away as best we can, then that's what she's capable of and I can't concern myself with what is or is not considered the right grade level. It hasn't happened yet, but that's my take on it. Grade level just doesn't matter, because short of making sure everyone is engaged and involved, there's nothing you can do to achieve it. If that doesn't work, then you have to meet them where they are.