Do I correct ds7's "invented spelling" or not? And other related writing questions...

[HappyGrace]

I'm at a weird point-ds7, starting 2nd grade, has good fine motor skills and writes nice copywork-at least a few sentences at a time and it's easy for him.

 

But now I'm trying to have him also do some little written sentences that he makes up (sometimes narrations, sometimes a very brief draw and caption about a history topic, maybe a two-sentence thing describing an illustration he made of his Lego war, etc.) He likes this and I'm not of the ilk that thinks they should *only* do copywork for writing. His spelling is mostly phonetic at this point, what they call "invented spelling". Like "The man wuz not frends with him becuz of the wor." So am I supposed to correct those spellings, or just assume they will straighten out eventually, or what?

 

I am doing a spelling program with him (PR1) so I know he'll get better with it. I remember older dd at this age was VERY advanced-writing three paragraph reports about cats, etc, with nice spelling. She is a natural and visual speller and learned a lot of her spelling from her avid reading, so the transition into her writing was very natural, so I'm not sure how to handle this stage with ds! (He can read fine, but doesn't love it like dd did, so he's not picking up much spelling from his reading.)

 

FWIW, the copywork does NOT transfer over at all as far as spelling-he's not really looking at it in terms of learning the spelling, just getting it done, letter by letter. (We will continue it-I do think it's a valuable tool.)

[nansk]

Hi,

 

I have no BTDT experience, but from what I have read, I would suggest you discourage invented spelling (or rather, make sure you correct it gently but asap.) As you get through PR, I suppose he will start writing the right spelling for words he spells wrong now.

 

As for copywork not helping with spelling, would it help if you went over the copywork orally beforehand and explained the spelling rules for each challenging word?

[JulieD]

If he's easily copying sentences, you might want to try room-to-room copywork. Put a short sentence to copy in the living room and then have him walk to the kitchen to write it. He can go back and forth as much as he wants, but it should help him to start visualizing words in his mind. It gets pretty old walking back and forth.

 

Julie D.

[DianeW88]

I ALWAYS correct spelling and make them re-write the misspelled words. Seeing words spelled incorrectly and letting it go just reinforces the erroneous spelling of the word.

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

[Homemama2]

:iagree: with the other posts.

 

 

Once the word is in his head, right or wrong, it's already imprinted there. Not that he can't learn the correct spelling later, but it will more difficult for him....so we try to get it right from the beginning. When my ds is writing something, I encourage him to ask me for the correct spelling, or sit by him and help correct him as he goes.

 

BTW~ one thing I didn't know about copywork when I first started it, is that they are not suppose to copy letter for letter because, as you said, it doesn't transfer to spelling (my ds did this too). What they should try to do is make a 'picture' in their head of the word and then copy the whole word down. This takes a little longer at first if they aren't use to it, but once they catch on it doesn't take extra time...and it WILL help them spell better! :)

Edited September 10, 2010 by Homemama2

[MerryAtHope]

 

FWIW, the copywork does NOT transfer over at all as far as spelling-he's not really looking at it in terms of learning the spelling, just getting it done, letter by letter. (We will continue it-I do think it's a valuable tool.)

 

I'll start here. I agree that copywork is a valuable tool, but not if he's doing it letter by letter. I would work hard to retrain him to say the sounds out loud as he writes. He may hate that--but if he doesn't do it now, it's only going to get harder to associate letters and letter combinations with sounds as he gets older. What he's doing with copywork will not reinforce the hard work you are doing with PR1 if he thinks of spelling as lists of letters in order like a phone number. I also would not have him copy anything that he doesn't understand how the phonics work. (Ie, if he doesn't understand that ph stands for /f/, I wouldn't have him copy a word like "phone.").

 

As for writing--I look at the purpose of the writing, and I don't correct all spelling for 2nd graders. Writing and editing are different steps--if we want perfect spelling, grammar, and punctuation every time they put pencil to paper, first time--they may well not be able to come out with their ideas because they are so worried about being perfect. A few kids can do this pretty well, but it's a lot to ask of most 2nd graders (and even some older kids--goodness, even professional writers use editors!). Here's an article about how I approach writing and getting kids to use their spelling skills in their writing. It relates to using AAS but you could use these ideas with any spelling program.

 

HTH some! Merry :-)

[Chez J]

I ALWAYS correct spelling and make them re-write the misspelled words. Seeing words spelled incorrectly and letting it go just reinforces the erroneous spelling of the word.

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

 

:iagree: Catch it immediately.

[siloam]

I don't let my kids do writing on their own till they progress enough in spelling that they don't make these sort of errors. I either sound it out/spell it for them while they write (ideal) or I write it for them and have them copy it.

 

And I have a 9yo still in AAS 1 who struggles with spelling, so I know what a pain that can be some days. :001_huh:

 

Heather

[shanvan]

I don't let my kids do writing on their own till they progress enough in spelling that they don't make these sort of errors. I either sound it out/spell it for them while they write (ideal) or I write it for them and have them copy it.

 

Ideally this was my plan for DD (now 8). The problem is she loves to write and I just cannot hold her back. She has pages and pages of stories in her room and new ones come to her everyday. This has been going on for years. I've just given in and let her use invented spelling for these b/c if I wanted to make her spell everything correctly I would spend my entire day following her around telling her how to spell for her books and stories. So, for school writing I don't allow invented spelling, but for personal writing I can only do so much. I do allow her to come and ask for correct spelling when she knows she needs help, but she doesn't always know. God has truly given this girl a gift for writing, but her spelling is taking some time to catch up!

 

On the plus side, I can tell when she has truly mastered what she is learning in spelling because I see it being spelled correctly in her personal writing.

 

Shannon

[Hedgehog]

I ALWAYS correct spelling and make them re-write the misspelled words. Seeing words spelled incorrectly and letting it go just reinforces the erroneous spelling of the word.

 

:iagree: unless, like Shannon's daughter, you have a gifted, imaginative story writer on your hands who won't stop writing. Then I agree with what she does, just correcting the spelling on assigned schoolwork.

[siloam]

If I were in your shoes I would get them typing ASAP and using a spell check. I would also encourage the use of a mini-recorder.

 

But if she is both visual and tactile she might just prefer to write. You do your best and let go of the rest....

 

Heather

[Mama2two]

This has been a great thread. My 4.5 year old daughter has been doing just what was described below. For example, when doing math with her big brother today she grabbed some paper, folded it up and starting writing and drawing. She said she making a book. Her spelling skills are definitely far below her imagination. Sshe has been doing this for weeks. I don't want to squash her excitement so not sure how to handle it.

 

Ideally this was my plan for DD (now 8). The problem is she loves to write and I just cannot hold her back. She has pages and pages of stories in her room and new ones come to her everyday. This has been going on for years. I've just given in and let her use invented spelling for these b/c if I wanted to make her spell everything correctly I would spend my entire day following her around telling her how to spell for her books and stories. So, for school writing I don't allow invented spelling, but for personal writing I can only do so much. I do allow her to come and ask for correct spelling when she knows she needs help, but she doesn't always know. God has truly given this girl a gift for writing, but her spelling is taking some time to catch up!

 

On the plus side, I can tell when she has truly mastered what she is learning in spelling because I see it being spelled correctly in her personal writing.

 

Shannon

[robsiew]

I'm at a weird point-ds7, starting 2nd grade, has good fine motor skills and writes nice copywork-at least a few sentences at a time and it's easy for him.

 

But now I'm trying to have him also do some little written sentences that he makes up (sometimes narrations, sometimes a very brief draw and caption about a history topic, maybe a two-sentence thing describing an illustration he made of his Lego war, etc.) He likes this and I'm not of the ilk that thinks they should *only* do copywork for writing. His spelling is mostly phonetic at this point, what they call "invented spelling". Like "The man wuz not frends with him becuz of the wor." So am I supposed to correct those spellings, or just assume they will straighten out eventually, or what?

 

I am doing a spelling program with him (PR1) so I know he'll get better with it. I remember older dd at this age was VERY advanced-writing three paragraph reports about cats, etc, with nice spelling. She is a natural and visual speller and learned a lot of her spelling from her avid reading, so the transition into her writing was very natural, so I'm not sure how to handle this stage with ds! (He can read fine, but doesn't love it like dd did, so he's not picking up much spelling from his reading.)

 

FWIW, the copywork does NOT transfer over at all as far as spelling-he's not really looking at it in terms of learning the spelling, just getting it done, letter by letter. (We will continue it-I do think it's a valuable tool.)

 

Just remember age 7 is very young for any spelling instruction to transfer to their writing ALL the time. From what I've read, most children don't consistently spell well until they are more like 12.

 

When I taught in PS we encouraged inventive spelling. Now, I'm of the opinion children should write things accurately. If my children are writing a note and misspell I don't correct it. If they come to me with writing they've done on their own I don't say anything (unless it's a word they should know). However, in their school work, I do correct spelling mistakes. Most of the time with the older two I can remind them of a rule and they can find their mistake. I think it's of real value for them to spell things correctly. Then you aren't having to fix words they've written over and over again wrong later.

 

Most of the time my children ask me to spell words for them they don't know. I always oblige. I usually start with separating out the sounds so they can hear them, then have them guess what the spelling is. If it's a tricky word I just tell them the part that doesn't sound like it's spelled.

 

I'm sure people are all over the map on this one! Part of it comes down to your philosophy...

[Halcyon]

If he's easily copying sentences, you might want to try room-to-room copywork. Put a short sentence to copy in the living room and then have him walk to the kitchen to write it. He can go back and forth as much as he wants, but it should help him to start visualizing words in his mind. It gets pretty old walking back and forth.

 

Julie D.

 

 

This is a wonderful idea whether your child is doing 1 sentence or 3 sentences--thank you!

[Halcyon]

I'm at a weird point-ds7, starting 2nd grade, has good fine motor skills and writes nice copywork-at least a few sentences at a time and it's easy for him.

 

But now I'm trying to have him also do some little written sentences that he makes up (sometimes narrations, sometimes a very brief draw and caption about a history topic, maybe a two-sentence thing describing an illustration he made of his Lego war, etc.) He likes this and I'm not of the ilk that thinks they should *only* do copywork for writing. His spelling is mostly phonetic at this point, what they call "invented spelling". Like "The man wuz not frends with him becuz of the wor." So am I supposed to correct those spellings, or just assume they will straighten out eventually, or what?

 

I am doing a spelling program with him (PR1) so I know he'll get better with it. I remember older dd at this age was VERY advanced-writing three paragraph reports about cats, etc, with nice spelling. She is a natural and visual speller and learned a lot of her spelling from her avid reading, so the transition into her writing was very natural, so I'm not sure how to handle this stage with ds! (He can read fine, but doesn't love it like dd did, so he's not picking up much spelling from his reading.)

 

FWIW, the copywork does NOT transfer over at all as far as spelling-he's not really looking at it in terms of learning the spelling, just getting it done, letter by letter. (We will continue it-I do think it's a valuable tool.)

 

 

I would correct the spelling after each session, and have him rewrite it with correct spelling, either that day if possible or the next. But I would only do this for "school work" and not for any 'free writing' he may feel inclined to do on his own time.

[HappyGrace]

Great suggestions! Mulling this over, I think it will squash his creativity by trying to catch him with the spelling as he writes. And I think having him correct all the spellings afterwards will really turn him off to even trying to write. Most of what he would be writing creatively would be for school, so would probably need to be corrected based on what people said here (and I agree and like the idea about separating the "school" writing and the "free" writing-but he doesn't do much, if any, free writing anyway yet!)

 

What I'm thinking I might do for now, so I don't crush his attempts at writing, is choose a couple (like two) words to have him spell correctly right after, and THEN if there are others, pick a couple of them to include later in the weekly spelling list. Or to play with later in the day with our magnetic letter tiles, trying to have him sound out the word by telling him any rules we have learned, etc. And pick a couple others to put into spellingcity.com to get him more familiar with them in a fun way. Thanks for the ideas-really got my creative juices flowing on how to make correcting the words more palatable for him!

 

I love the room-to-room idea for copywork-will start that right away to correct his letter by letter copywork!

Edited September 11, 2010 by HappyGrace

[min]

Do you have one of those children's dictionaries? The kind with the 300 most common words kids use in writing, and room for their own words?

 

I just got one (we afterschool) as they have them in the classroom. It seems as though it might be useful, but will see if they stop long enough to look words up. Still, it might be another tool.

 

Min

[Pata]

If my children are writing a note and misspell I don't correct it. If they come to me with writing they've done on their own I don't say anything (unless it's a word they should know). However, in their school work, I do correct spelling mistakes.

 

:iagree: This is how we handle it.

 

JulieD, what a great idea! I'm going to try the room to room copywork with my dd. It seems to me that it would also help with dictation skills. Thanks for sharing!

Edited September 11, 2010 by Pata
spelling error, LOL!

[HappyGrace]

I thought of another idea (based on min's dictionary idea) that I forgot we had here-a great little book called "Words I Use When I Write"-it's like a very very simplified alphabetized book with basic words in pretty large print that children would be likely to use most. There are no definitions, just spellings. And then there are spaces w/in each letter category to write more words in that they want to include. I remember dd liked it when she was younger; I will have to pull that out again! Thanks!