AAS and phonics road questions

[Aoife]

Yes I have more questions and I didn't want to take over the early reader thread completely with them :lol:

 

 

Ok I am so on the fence and sorta confused and my head is spinning. Gotta love indecisiveness! :tongue_smilie:

 

So let me break it down to make it easier for you all and me. :)

 

I have 4 (soon to be 5) kiddos to figure something out for. The 2 older ones (my DSDs) are 12yo and 9yo. Right now we have 50% custody and they are here every other week with us. This may be changing though to being with us only weekends and summers. The 12yo is pretty good as far as spelling goes but greatly laking in reading ability, comprehension and writing. The 9yo had a really hard time learning to read in PS and has horrible spelling. DSD1 wants help with writing mainly so we are starting writeshop with her. DSD2 is embarrassed by her spelling problems and wants help. Now I also have a pre-ker who loves books and is so very eager to learn to read like a big boy. He knew is letters and sounds by age 2 and we started OPGTR a bit before he turned 3. I would rather teach him full phonics then any sight words to avoid any guessing and strengthen his reading as he learns.

 

I have OPGTR

I just reordered AAS level 1&2 and the first reader

 

I keep looking at phonics road and really liking what I see however we are pretty set on our other LA. (MCT with writeshop) However if phonics road can really give my kids a great foundation in phonics, reading and spelling then I can justify the cost in the long run even with not using 100% of the program.

 

So my questions are:

 

If you are using it to remediate older kids would it be better to go through AAS 1-3 then into phonics road 2?

 

If I go with phonics road how easy or difficult would it be to modify it to not use the other aspects of LA (composition and grammar)?

 

Would the program be as effective or worth it if I wasn't using the composition and grammar parts?

 

If you were to start with a younger child would you first use AAS and OPGTR to teach them to read not going too in depth with the spelling rules and then go into PR1 come K or first grade?

 

If I used AAS to teach my DSs to read would levels 1-2 be sufficient keeping in mind that I would go into PR1 and hit a lot of it again?

 

Or should I just stick with AAS for the whole ride and stop drooling over PR entirely? :lol:

 

thanks so much for your help and reading my crazy ramblings!

[Mosaicmind]

:lurk5: same questions as her

[ElizabethB]

Well, those are all good programs and any should work!

 

But, you will need to make sure to do some nonsense words with your older students who got sight words and other whole language methods in school, it will take much longer to learn the phonics if you don't break the guessing habit with nonsense words. Spelling also helps, but nonsense words are key. It took me about 4 times longer to remediate students without nonsense words. (I was using the same exact program, just added in nonsense words.)

[LoveBaby]

So my questions are:

 

If you are using it to remediate older kids would it be better to go through AAS 1-3 then into phonics road 2? I bought AAS 1, realized it moved waaaaay to slowly and decided on PR 1 accelerated then into PR 2.

 

If I go with phonics road how easy or difficult would it be to modify it to not use the other aspects of LA (composition and grammar)? It is very integrated, composition being original sentences in the early levels, more grammar in PR2 and above. Hopefully Tina will jump in and share her thoughts on the composition and grammar portions, you may just be convinced to go PR all the way!

 

Would the program be as effective or worth it if I wasn't using the composition and grammar parts? Mmmm...the way she teaches spelling, phonograms and rule tunes is pretty amazing. And the grammar tunes in later levels could be helpful for re-enforcing the grammar learned in your other program.

 

If you were to start with a younger child would you first use AAS and OPGTR to teach them to read not going too in depth with the spelling rules and then go into PR1 come K or first grade? I found a book called "Learning at Home: Preschool and Kindergarten that has a gentle phonogram approach, then dictating easy words onto reading and composing sentences by the end of the year. I am using it this year for teaching reading, then into PR 1 for 1st grade. I feel very strongly that I want a 7yo 1st grader doing PR 1.

 

If I used AAS to teach my DSs to read would levels 1-2 be sufficient keeping in mind that I would go into PR1 and hit a lot of it again? Couldn't say, as I've never actually used AAS.

 

Or should I just stick with AAS for the whole ride and stop drooling over PR entirely? :lol: Not that I am biased or anything (:D) but I would get PR 1 and stick with it for all 4 levels. I am *loving* it and am so happy to have found it!!

 

thanks so much for your help and reading my crazy ramblings!

 

No problem, mama!! That is what we are here for! Oh..there is a social group for those of us Phonics Road lovers, head over there, some of your questions may be addressed there as well.

[Jennay]

While I like have used levels 1-4 of AAS, I wouldn't use it for teaching someone to read.

[Guest aquiverfull]

I haven't seen AAS. I own their phonogram cards and one of the Beehive Readers. I have level 1 and 2 of PR. I'm accelerating my 11 year old through it. We are only on week 9 of level 1 so I can't really answer your questions about how the other components of LAs are integrated. I do know that they have a book study of Little House on the Prairie in the 2nd level.

 

I debated between AAS and PR as well. Everyone kept saying that AAS moved a lot more slowly, and there are more levels to go through. I think Carmen has said that levels 1 - 2 or 3 of AAS are pretty much covered in PR 1. You'll have to double check that as my memory is foggy.

 

I have a 4 and 5 year old. I personally don't want to use either AAS or PR to teach them to read. However, I can't find anything else, so right now I'm patiently awaiting the release of All About Reading. I'm hoping to use it. I just hope it doesn't move too slowly and after a few levels of that I plan to move to PR 1. I, like Jesse, plan to use PR 1 for first grade. I thought I would like all in one and I do for the older grades. However, I want my child to be able to write letters and have some reading underway before starting spelling. I know programs like these teach "spell to read". That's fine but I think these programs meant for spelling can be a bit tough to adapt for reading. I guess I just want a reading program for teaching my children to read, because I feel there would not be enough practice for reading in PR 1 or AAS. For instance, my 5 year old can spell quite a few things but she can't read and she actually has trouble blending sounds. That's where I feel a "reading program" would be stronger.

Edited September 1, 2010 by aquiverfull

[Aoife]

we are using OPGTR as our "spine" for learning to read and were just planning on using AAS to supplement that so where OPGTR has sight word cards we'd use AAS or PR to teach the phonetic way rather then sight words. We are on step 36 of OPGTR and DS just learning a few sight words got thrown off and we've been working all week getting him back to sounding out rather then guessing. He is already blending pretty well and can sit and read some lower level library books and bob books so he's pretty determined to go all the way with the reading :)

 

 

One more question I had is...... Is PR secular? We have a blend going on in our home and like to teach our religion separately so the ability to use it secularly without heavy modifications would definitely be a big point as well.

[Guest aquiverfull]

 

One more question I had is...... Is PR secular? We have a blend going on in our home and like to teach our religion separately so the ability to use it secularly without heavy modifications would definitely be a big point as well.

 

See this thread... http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197891&highlight=phonics+road

[Aoife]

thanks for the link it gives me something to think on. But if it's just in the TM and only a few of the books I think we'd be fine :)

[Aoife]

bump :) thanks for the advice so far ladies :)

[Aoife]

:D

[siloam]

The 12yo is pretty good as far as spelling goes but greatly laking in reading ability, comprehension and writing.

Are you talking the speed at which he reads? Generally a child is not a good speller and a bad reader.

 

Does this child see words in their minds? Do they see pictures in their mind? Do they have a diagnosed learning disability (LD)?

 

There are lots of ways to work on reading fluency, including just having them read with a book on CD, which is probably the easiest way. Repeated readings are also an excellent way, and requires no extra $$ spent. :D

 

Anytime I see comprehension I wonder if they couldn't use some Visualizing and Verbalizing work. Basically people who can build detailed pictures in their minds generally don't have comprehension problems. I for instance, do have a running movie going in my mind, in fact I don't naturally see words at all (thus I am a poor speller), but I don't see it in great detail. Thus I do great with big ideas, but poorly with details in recall.

 

Another option to possibly consider is Megawords. AAS would probably be too slow and not effective with gaps in-between times you can work on it. Megawords is a workbook and can go with them when they leave. :D

 

The 9yo had a really hard time learning to read in PS and has horrible spelling.

Anytime I see a spelling problem the first question I have is do they see words/letters in their mind? If this ability is lacking they will always have problems with the visual memory required to spell well. Seeing Stars is a program that develops that ability. You wouldn't need the whole set as that is a full phonics program, all you need is to buy the manual and add the work to another spelling program, PR or AAS.

 

Again was he diagnosed with an LD? Many schools refuse to diagnose dyslexic, but they have developed various labels that mean the same thing. :rolleyes: The point here is if there is an LD present, then have you observed that this child is easily overwhelmed with new material? I agree that PR moves more quickly, but that is not good for all students. An LD student can become totally overwhelmed and shut down. AAS is incremental, and works better for the child who can't take it all in at once. I personally had two who did fine with SWR (similar to PR) and one who was in tears daily because it was just too much, but is doing well in AAS.

 

If the child can't spell on at least a 4th grade level I wouldn't even consider Megawords yet.

 

Now I also have a pre-ker who loves books and is so very eager to learn to read like a big boy. He knew is letters and sounds by age 2 and we started OPGTR a bit before he turned 3. I would rather teach him full phonics then any sight words to avoid any guessing and strengthen his reading as he learns.

 

I think you could go either PR or AAS here. Both are very strong programs. PR generally will get you there faster, but if there is an LD AAS will be more effective. Right now AAS doesn't have a full learning to read program, so you are going to probably need to use OPGTR to fill in some gaps. The reading part of it is supposed to be coming October or November. I can't wait to see it and am hoping it at least provides the options of working with nonsense words. I do agree with Elizabeth that it can really make the differences with most students. They can't guess they have to know their phonics and use them like it or not.

 

Heather

 

[lovinmomma]

 

I think you could go either PR or AAS here. Both are very strong programs. PR generally will get you there faster, but if there is an LD AAS will be more effective. Right now AAS doesn't have a full learning to read program, so you are going to probably need to use OPGTR to fill in some gaps. The reading part of it is supposed to be coming October or November. I can't wait to see it and am hoping it at least provides the options of working with nonsense words. I do agree with Elizabeth that it can really make the differences with most students. They can't guess they have to know their phonics and use them like it or not.

 

Heather

 

 

 

Wait! Did they change this? I thought it was December???

[siloam]

Wait! Did they change this? I thought it was December???

 

I Merry posted it go with her instead of me. She knows the date better than I do. I might have just missed that there was a change. Originally they were shooting for October, but realizing how often all publishers are late (so many things go wrong) I have been saying Oct.-Nov.

 

Heather

[nicholsonhomeschool]

You've gotten a lot of good and informed advice -- I just wanted to add that my 7yo son had been working through AAS when I learned about PR. I was intrigued by PR and emailed the author to ask if it would work to start in with PR level 2 after completing two levels of AAS. She strongly advised against it, saying that it would be better to go back and start PR with level 1. Well, as much as I liked the look of PR, I've stuck with AAS because I know my son would be frustrated with "starting over." He likes AAS and I do too, but I might consider PR for my younger son.

 

And, while I saw a big surge in reading skills after starting AAS, my son was already reading when we started level 1. I wouldn't bill it as a reading program.

 

Hope that helps!

[johnandtinagilbert]

So my questions are:

 

If you are using it to remediate older kids would it be better to go through AAS 1-3 then into phonics road 2? No, not b/c of anything to do with AAS, but b/c PR builds upon itself with each level. You'll be referring to Building and Framing Codes (spelling and grammar rules and principles) from PR1, when you begin PR2 and you'll have learned many of the Rule Tunes (songs that explain spelling rules) in PR1. Carmen evaluated both and said AAS 1-3 = PR1 (essentially) To give you an idea, I accelerated (easily) levels 1, 2 and about 1/4 of 3 in one school year. We'll finish up 3 (dd is in 5th now, almost 11) and begin 4. After finishing 4 (next year, 6th grade) we'll use Write Shop for a year and practice the Latin she's already learned in PR (Latin starts in Level 3 and moves forward in 4, then The Latin Road).

 

If I go with phonics road how easy or difficult would it be to modify it to not use the other aspects of LA (composition and grammar)? If you dropped the literature, you'd lose the writing component; and if you dropped the grammar you'd lose some writing component and all the grammar. NOT hard to use from there, it'd be SUPER easy, but I think you'd be missing the beauty of this comprehensive program.

 

Would the program be as effective or worth it if I wasn't using the composition and grammar parts? Effective for spelling, yes; but overall, imo, a strength of this program is it's completeness; it's ability to show yoru student that Language Arts is a Whole subject area, not bits and pieces you pull from different books, different texts, different notebooks. Cohesion pays off in the end, in my experience. If you were just looking for spelling, I might encourage AAS, but I'd have to remind you that you can get the same benefits and then some by using PR.

 

If you were to start with a younger child would you first use AAS and OPGTR to teach them to read not going too in depth with the spelling rules and then go into PR1 come K or first grade? I'd use AAReading or OPGTR, even Phonics Pathways, then come into PR1 in 1st grade (age 6+). You can use PR to teach reading, but the teaching of the phonics isn't laid out for you as "step by step" as you'll find in OPGTR/PP/AAR. Using PR1 you will not only review the phonics (first 4-weeks), but in week 5, you start the spelling list in PR1; go to easy reading at week 15 (I'm pretty sure it's 15) (note: not controlled readers b/c Mrs. Beers wants to avoid memorization, and encourage decoding); then you start PR2 with Little House in the Big Woods as the literature study.

 

If I used AAS to teach my DSs to read would levels 1-2 be sufficient keeping in mind that I would go into PR1 and hit a lot of it again? Again, I'd suggest AAReading, and mention Carmen's evaluation that PR1 = AAS 1-3

 

Or should I just stick with AAS for the whole ride and stop drooling over PR entirely? :lol: I can't stop drooling over it and I just received Level 4 today...I got my Latin Road DVDs last week or the week before...still drooling! If you really have your heart set on MCT, then just stick with AAS; I encourage you, though...comprehensive has Big Perks!

 

thanks so much for your help and reading my crazy ramblings!

I could talk about PR (and TOG) for days and days :D Edited September 2, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert

[Lovedtodeath]

I have OPGTR

I just reordered AAS level 1&2 and the first reader I received AAS 2 and decided to sell it before we started. We did two lessons syllabication is taught very well in AAS and is lacking in PR.

I keep looking at phonics road and really liking what I see however we are pretty set on our other LA. (MCT with writeshop) However if phonics road can really give my kids a great foundation in phonics, reading and spelling then I can justify the cost in the long run even with not using 100% of the program. I used to drool over MCT, but I am so happy with PR for all of our LA that I don't any more. I know that I can't use every program out there and I already have the best.

 

So my questions are:

 

If you are using it to remediate older kids would it be better to go through AAS 1-3 then into phonics road 2? It really depends on why they need the remediation. Heather has more experience in that area. It sounds like you may have a language problem instead of a phonics problem.

 

If I go with phonics road how easy or difficult would it be to modify it to not use the other aspects of LA (composition and grammar)?

 

Would the program be as effective or worth it if I wasn't using the composition and grammar parts?

 

If you were to start with a younger child would you first use AAS and OPGTR to teach them to read not going too in depth with the spelling rules and then go into PR1 come K or first grade?

 

If I used AAS to teach my DSs to read would levels 1-2 be sufficient keeping in mind that I would go into PR1 and hit a lot of it again?

 

Or should I just stick with AAS for the whole ride and stop drooling over PR entirely? :lol:

 

thanks so much for your help and reading my crazy ramblings!

 

I haven't seen AAS. I own their phonogram cards and one of the Beehive Readers. I have level 1 and 2 of PR. I'm accelerating my 11 year old through it. We are only on week 9 of level 1 so I can't really answer your questions about how the other components of LAs are integrated. I do know that they have a book study of Little House on the Prairie in the 2nd level.

 

I debated between AAS and PR as well. Everyone kept saying that AAS moved a lot more slowly, and there are more levels to go through. I think Carmen has said that levels 1 - 2 or 3 of AAS are pretty much covered in PR 1. You'll have to double check that as my memory is foggy.

 

I have a 4 and 5 year old. I personally don't want to use either AAS or PR to teach them to read. However, I can't find anything else, so right now I'm patiently awaiting the release of All About Reading. I'm hoping to use it. I just hope it doesn't move too slowly and after a few levels of that I plan to move to PR 1. I, like Jesse, plan to use PR 1 for first grade. I thought I would like all in one and I do for the older grades. However, I want my child to be able to write letters and have some reading underway before starting spelling. I know programs like these teach "spell to read". That's fine but I think these programs meant for spelling can be a bit tough to adapt for reading. I guess I just want a reading program for teaching my children to read, because I feel there would not be enough practice for reading in PR 1 or AAS. For instance, my 5 year old can spell quite a few things but she can't read and she actually has trouble blending sounds. That's where I feel a "reading program" would be stronger.

I have looked at Sensational Strategies, Recipe for Reading, WinterPromise PK and K phonics and Dancing Bears. They are all very good OG based learn to read programs. :) There is one based on WRTR also... Sound Beginnings, I haven't looked into that one much.

 

Looking at the scope and sequence of AAS 3 lead me to believe that PR 1 has it covered. I only used AAS 1 and 2.

 

we are using OPGTR as our "spine" for learning to read and were just planning on using AAS to supplement that so where OPGTR has sight word cards we'd use AAS or PR to teach the phonetic way rather then sight words. We are on step 36 of OPGTR and DS just learning a few sight words got thrown off and we've been working all week getting him back to sounding out rather then guessing. He is already blending pretty well and can sit and read some lower level library books and bob books so he's pretty determined to go all the way with the reading :) You would be much better off with PR for that purpose. You will have more phonograms and rules covered. I also vastly prefer the way PR marks and analyzes each word, and has rule tunes. We had trouble remembering things with AAS... I do understand that the AAS sequence is better for some kids though.

 

One more question I had is...... Is PR secular? We have a blend going on in our home and like to teach our religion separately so the ability to use it secularly without heavy modifications would definitely be a big point as well. I covered this question in the social group. I am disappointed that people aren't looking there.

[Aoife]

Thank you all SOOOOO much for the advice, answers and help! I have been so back and forth and torn over this decision it's crazy :lol: I am thinking I will most likely get PR1 and at least physically look through it and watch the DVDs to get a better idea. I had AAS a while back and I tried to use it for the 9yo but I was overwhelmed by it for some reason. :001_huh: I am still unsure what to do your my 9yo as it would only get done here and not at her mom's house. Her mom is um not very academically concerned and wants to be the "fun" parent rather then the one who makes them work so it is up to DH and I to help DSD out unfortunately.

 

She is a total guesser in that she will not sound out words and doesn't have the skills to segment them and figure them out. She makes the same mistakes over and over especially with substituting sounds. like she will spell "sit" as set because she confuses the sounds and letters. They have started into multisyllabic words in 3rd grade now and it is pretty over her head and she is getting lost quickly. She is reading on probably a 1st grade maybe 2nd grade level but if you were to ask her what happened in most books she would not be able to tell you.

 

The 12yo gets good grades in spelling so I am really unaware of any problems in that area however she just totally doesn't get a lot of stuff when reading. She has a lot of problems with summarizing and deriving the meaning in the writing. For instance I had her reading little women this summer and filing out a reading comprehension packet as she went through the book. For character development/descriptions she would put things like tall, thin, dark hair rather then about the character. She gets stuck on the literal words rather then the meaning behind them.

 

I really wish AAR would be coming out sooner! I have DS1 begging me daily for reading lessons and I am just hesitant because I don't want to take a wrong approach and then have to fix it later. As far as he goes I am really leaning towards doing PR1 with writeshop primary for first grade. Then in 3rd grade adding in MCT. I don't foresee going through to Latin road so we'd be doing MCT full time after PR4 anyway. I am most concerned with giving him and the other littles a really strong foundation in phonics. If it is just grammar and composition in PR then there wouldn't be too much overlap when we start MCT and it might just complement each other and reinforce the material. If it ever gets overwhelming then we'll know to back off some too. Does this sound like an ok plan or am I being too ambitious?

 

again thanks so much!

[johnandtinagilbert]

Thank you all SOOOOO much for the advice, answers and help! I have been so back and forth and torn over this decision it's crazy :lol: I am thinking I will most likely get PR1 and at least physically look through it and watch the DVDs to get a better idea. I had AAS a while back and I tried to use it for the 9yo but I was overwhelmed by it for some reason. :001_huh: I am still unsure what to do your my 9yo as it would only get done here and not at her mom's house. Her mom is um not very academically concerned and wants to be the "fun" parent rather then the one who makes them work so it is up to DH and I to help DSD out unfortunately.

 

She is a total guesser in that she will not sound out words and doesn't have the skills to segment them and figure them out. She makes the same mistakes over and over especially with substituting sounds. like she will spell "sit" as set because she confuses the sounds and letters. They have started into multisyllabic words in 3rd grade now and it is pretty over her head and she is getting lost quickly. She is reading on probably a 1st grade maybe 2nd grade level but if you were to ask her what happened in most books she would not be able to tell you.

 

The 12yo gets good grades in spelling so I am really unaware of any problems in that area however she just totally doesn't get a lot of stuff when reading. She has a lot of problems with summarizing and deriving the meaning in the writing. For instance I had her reading little women this summer and filing out a reading comprehension packet as she went through the book. For character development/descriptions she would put things like tall, thin, dark hair rather then about the character. She gets stuck on the literal words rather then the meaning behind them.

 

I really wish AAR would be coming out sooner! I have DS1 begging me daily for reading lessons and I am just hesitant because I don't want to take a wrong approach and then have to fix it later. As far as he goes I am really leaning towards doing PR1 with writeshop primary for first grade. Then in 3rd grade adding in MCT. I don't foresee going through to Latin road so we'd be doing MCT full time after PR4 anyway. I am most concerned with giving him and the other littles a really strong foundation in phonics. If it is just grammar and composition in PR then there wouldn't be too much overlap when we start MCT and it might just complement each other and reinforce the material. If it ever gets overwhelming then we'll know to back off some too. Does this sound like an ok plan or am I being too ambitious?

 

again thanks so much!

I have a friend using PR and WS together and she says it's not too much...although, another option is to take the skills learned in PR and apply them to science or history. Here's an example of how I often do this in our home school.

 

Your plans sounds great. If you're not starting MCT until later, it'd be great to use PR first...you will surely get the excellent foundation you are shooting for.

 

Heads up...watch a lot of the DVDs with the Teacher's Manual and the Student notebook in front of you, with remote in hand so you can pause and look to make the connections. There's a short fog in understanding it all, but once you "see" it, you'll understand how amazing the program is.

[Guest aquiverfull]

I have looked at Sensational Strategies, Recipe for Reading, WinterPromise PK and K phonics and Dancing Bears. They are all very good OG based learn to read programs. :) There is one based on WRTR also... Sound Beginnings, I haven't looked into that one much.

 

Thanks for these recommendations, Carmen. I'll look into them.

 

I really wish AAR would be coming out sooner! I have DS1 begging me daily for reading lessons and I am just hesitant because I don't want to take a wrong approach and then have to fix it later.

 

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

Aoife, I had difficulty with AAS. I do not do well with Mastery based programs. I really need a daily lesson plan. I am finding PR 1 very easy. At first I didn't even need the DVD's. Now if I come to a lesson that worries me I can watch the DVD and then teach it with ease the next day. I like your plan. At first I was planning to switch to MCT after PR 4 too.

 

Kelli, I am still thinking that AAR will be the best. :tongue_smilie:

[Aoife]

for some reason I LOVE mastery in math but when I looked at AAS and used it a bit I just really didn't hit it off :tongue_smilie: I felt kind of overwhelmed and lost even though it was scripted. I don't want to hate what I am teaching IKWIM so I sold the AAS. With DSD 9yo having so many probems and begging for help with spelling DH wanted me to go ahead and get AAS again which I did impulsively but I am thinking we'll be sending it right back and going with PR instead. I am just hoping that PR1 sticks and just ins't too fast for her since this is an area she struggles in. If it ends up being the case then I guess we'll use AAS with her since it is more geared to kids with LDs and difficulties and we know she has ADHD and suspect dyslexia

[Veritaserum]

So I dreamed about Phonics Road after reading about it extensively last night. I've been using AAS with my oldest three (dd10 is in level 5). I like it quite a bit. I am considering PR for my third dd and the younger two. The all-in-one aspect of PR appeals to me, but I worry about it being too teacher-intensive. I like that AAS is open-and-go, but the rules songs and integrated approach of PR sounds great. We love Song School Latin and Audio Memory Geography because of the songs.

 

If it matters, my oldest is using MCT Town and my second dd is using CLE LA 300. I've been meaning to do FLL 1 with my third dd because she loves memorization and has an excellent memory. Songs stick with her very well. Does PR gave songs for grammar rules? My third dd needs to build her confidence with reading. Her handwriting also needs help. She enjoys writing stories (my favorite was her tale called "Gollum and the Precious Chocolate"). I think I read that PR does some original writing and she'd get to illustrate stories. Is that true?

 

I was turned off to PR when I read the thread in the social group that said PR teaches a short i sound for y at the ends of words, but then teaches a long i sound in level 2. Is there anything else like that? Dd is halfway through AAS level 1 and I like the way the phongrams are taught in AAS.

 

Gah. I should probably just stop thinking about anything new and just use what we have. :tongue_smilie:

[johnandtinagilbert]

So I dreamed about Phonics Road after reading about it extensively last night. I've been using AAS with my oldest three (dd10 is in level 5). I like it quite a bit. I am considering PR for my third dd and the younger two. The all-in-one aspect of PR appeals to me, but I worry about it being too teacher-intensive. I like that AAS is open-and-go, but the rules songs and integrated approach of PR sounds great. We love Song School Latin and Audio Memory Geography because of the songs. For the most part, you don't need to spend more than 20m on any section. There are longer days, particularly in the literature section and occasionally in grammar (if a child gets stumped), but you can opt to spread those into 2 days anytime you wish. It does not matter if you are on the same day/week in all 3 sections, as they compliment each other, but don't rely on each other. We are in the middle of 3 w/ dd10 and I never spend more than 20 min. with her on any section, period. I instruct, we do a few practices, she finishes the pages independently.

 

If it matters, my oldest is using MCT Town and my second dd is using CLE LA 300. I've been meaning to do FLL 1 with my third dd because she loves memorization and has an excellent memory. Songs stick with her very well. Does PR gave songs for grammar rules? Yes, called Grammar Tunes; so there are Rule Tunes (spelling) and Grammar Tunes. My third dd needs to build her confidence with reading. Her handwriting also needs help. She enjoys writing stories (my favorite was her tale called "Gollum and the Precious Chocolate"). I think I read that PR does some original writing and she'd get to illustrate stories. Is that true? Yes, Level 1 has illustrations, as do other parts of the lit. study. The children also dictate sentences to you and begin writing their own sentences. We often times create a theme and work around that for our sentence writing. My blog has a few examples of the writing skills taught in the program and also how we've been able to crossover those skills into history and science. Blog is in the siggy.

 

I was turned off to PR when I read the thread in the social group that said PR teaches a short i sound for y at the ends of words, but then teaches a long i sound in level 2. Is there anything else like that? Dd is halfway through AAS level 1 and I like the way the phongrams are taught in AAS. Nothing else taught that way. We explained why it is taught that way, and I just allow the dc to mark it as the long e if they remember it that way....it really is such a teeny tiny part of the program it really shouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

Gah. I should probably just stop thinking about anything new and just use what we have. :tongue_smilie:

We enjoyed PR and retained more than we did with FLL, ymmv. I can't say enough about how nice all-in-one is...you do have to teach, but if you're comfy in AAS, you can be comfy in PR, too. I'd say by level 3, I no longer find this program "teaching intensive" It is teacher led in level 1 and 2, but isn't most everything in 1st and 2nd grade...shouldn't it be? Again, ymmv. Best wishes on the best decision for your family.

[ElizabethB]

She is a total guesser in that she will not sound out words and doesn't have the skills to segment them and figure them out. She makes the same mistakes over and over especially with substituting sounds. like she will spell "sit" as set because she confuses the sounds and letters. They have started into multisyllabic words in 3rd grade now and it is pretty over her head and she is getting lost quickly. She is reading on probably a 1st grade maybe 2nd grade level but if you were to ask her what happened in most books she would not be able to tell you.

 

 

Nonsense words.

 

Nonsense words.

 

Nonsense words!!!

 

Actually, I would just work her through the program on my how to tutor page, but you at least need the nonsense word portion.

 

My game makes both real and nonsense words, that is the funnest way to add in nonsense words! (It's free, too!!)

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20P...rationgam.html

 

Here is a website that makes more nonsense words:

 

http://call.canil.ca/english/index.html

 

And, you can use my Language Lessons and New Elizabethian test as sources of nonsense words:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20R...zabethian.html

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20R...gelessons.html

 

If you need more than that, it's a bit expensive ($45), but the 3rd grade and above editions of "We All Can Read" have a ton of nonsense words. It is a good program, and can be used with a younger child who is reading fairly well but guessing, I would just write a few more things out in a bigger print.

 

http://weallcanread.com/3-Adult-Product-1.html

 

My free online phonics lessons also use nonsense words.

[Lovedtodeath]

I am glad you commented Elizabeth!

[Veritaserum]

We enjoyed PR and retained more than we did with FLL, ymmv. I can't say enough about how nice all-in-one is...you do have to teach, but if you're comfy in AAS, you can be comfy in PR, too. I'd say by level 3, I no longer find this program "teaching intensive" It is teacher led in level 1 and 2, but isn't most everything in 1st and 2nd grade...shouldn't it be? Again, ymmv. Best wishes on the best decision for your family.

 

Thanks for the helpful response. I plan to watch the sample DVD this afternoon and hopefully make a decision! :)

[Mosaicmind]

If we use PR do we need another grammar, writing and spelling program? I have three dSs that I am looking at using this with. DS/12 reads well but doesn't comprehend and can't spell. DS/10 reads ok, doesn't comprehend and yet spells tremendously. DS/8 well......needs help in all areas.

 

I am wondering if I can drop using R&S English if I use PR with all of them. I was planning on using WWE with the younger two and Write Shop with DS/12, do I need it?

 

Should I just use AAS with DS/12 since his main problem is spelling? It seems that he reads well above grade level but doesn't comprehend unless he is interested in what he's reading. It's mainly his spelling that isn't clicking with him and we have been using SWO.

 

With DS/10 I don't really know if PR is the ticket since his reading is at or a little above grade level, but comprehension is nill. He has done fantastic in spelling which is probably because he is a natural speller.

 

DS/8 just isn't reading very well and his year in ps last year didn't help since they didn't teach him any phonics. Because of this he just isn't doing well in reading, spelling, comprehension, dictation, ect.... Since I heard from another poster that AAS shouldn't be used as a reading program than I am assuming PR is the way to go.

[AnointedHsMom]

Just a quick response here for those that need to do remedial reading/phonics/spelling work with older students. I have an 11 year old that I am using Saxon's Phonics Intervention with. He had so many problems learning to read and everything has suffered because of it. I am very pleased so far with the program and really wish that I would have used this with him earlier.

 

Just wanted to throw this out there to muddy the waters for everyone!! :o)

[Guest aquiverfull]

Kelli, I am still thinking that AAR will be the best. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yep, that's my thinking too, so I'm trying to wait it out. :)

 

I was turned off to PR when I read the thread in the social group that said PR teaches a short i sound for y at the ends of words, but then teaches a long i sound in level 2. Is there anything else like that? Dd is halfway through AAS level 1 and I like the way the phongrams are taught in AAS.

 

 

Well I use PR, but I also had previously purchased the phonogram cards from AAS. I also prefer to teach that y can make a long e sound. So for the cards in AAS that had extra phonogram sounds that were not in PR, I just simply added those sounds to the back of my PR phonogram cards. I teach that y has 4 sounds, as well as o. PR doesn't teach that o can say short u as in oven, but AAS does. So we use what AAS uses and if we were to come across a word in PR where the o is saying the short u sound, we would simply mark it as its fourth sound.

 

If we use PR do we need another grammar, writing and spelling program?

 

I'm using PR at an accelerated pace with my 11 year old dd. She can read above grade level, has no problems with comprehension, only she spells at a 4th grade level (she's in 6th) and could use some help in the writing department.

 

At first I purchased CQLAs to use along with PR, but then I realized it would be too much for LAs. Now we are using Trail guide to Learning- Paths of Exploration and that has some gentle LAs included, so we do it too. I feel that it's not too much with PR. However, I think a full LAs curriculum (like R&S) in addition to PR would probably be overkill.

 

The reason I choose PR is because I believe it will give her a very strong LAs foundation. I probably could have just found a spelling program (although we tried Megawords and didn't really like it) and a writing program, but I really wanted to insure that we closed all the gaps we had from using multiple programs and switching around in the LAs department.

 

I can't tell you what to do for your children. Only you know them and will have to decide if PR would be the right choice. I hope sharing my experiences can give you some insight.

[MerryAtHope]

I Merry posted it go with her instead of me. She knows the date better than I do. I might have just missed that there was a change. Originally they were shooting for October, but realizing how often all publishers are late (so many things go wrong) I have been saying Oct.-Nov.

 

Heather

 

Actually the Pre Level is due out in October, and the Level 1 of AAR is due in December--that's always been the dates as far as I've known.

 

Merry :-)

[Guest aquiverfull]

Actually the Pre Level is due out in October, and the Level 1 of AAR is due in December--that's always been the dates as far as I've known.

 

Merry :-)

 

Merry, thanks so much for letting us know. Can you tell us what will the pre-level include? Is it just teaching phonograms or will it have the student reading some words? Will any of the Beehive readers coordinate with it?

[Aoife]

I just got AAS in the mail and I ordered the cobweb the cat book which says on it "All about reading level 1 book 3 " and all throughout the level 1 TM it schedules the "readers" as all about reading. Will AAR be pretty much using the AAS TMs along with the readers or are they releasing a different set of TMs to go with the readers? The release dates that you mentioned correspond with the release dates given on the site for the readers due out. and if you go to http://www.all-about-reading.com it shows the cobweb the cat as being the first released component. Can anyone who has read any info clarify if AAR will have different TMs from AAS or will they use the same and just add the readers?

[johnandtinagilbert]

If we use PR do we need another grammar, writing and spelling program? I have three dSs that I am looking at using this with. DS/12 reads well but doesn't comprehend and can't spell. DS/10 reads ok, doesn't comprehend and yet spells tremendously. DS/8 well......needs help in all areas. I'd use Saxon Intervention or AAS for the 12yo and solely PR for the other 2 (accelerate it for the 10yo). You will not need any other language art resources (no grammar, no writing, no literature analysis). I have some examples on my blog of acceleration and plan to put some more up b/c we accelerated through 2.25 levels last year, for my 10 yo.

 

I am wondering if I can drop using R&S English if I use PR with all of them. I was planning on using WWE with the younger two and Write Shop with DS/12, do I need it? Totally drop R&S and WWE for the younger 2. THere is dictation (plenty) and writing in PR. They'll be outlining, note-taking and writing solid, descriptive paragraphs by the end of the 4-levels. For the 12yo, I'd keep Write Shop for the 12yo and if he's okay in grammar, I'd use something simple like Editor in Chief, Student Editor, or Daily Grams. If he needs some remediation, I'd stick with R&S or something else.

 

Should I just use AAS with DS/12 since his main problem is spelling? It seems that he reads well above grade level but doesn't comprehend unless he is interested in what he's reading. It's mainly his spelling that isn't clicking with him and we have been using SWO. I would. I also hear Saxon Phonics Intervention is pretty good. I *think* that is the one Linda is using (Homeschooling6) I'd also offer the trade system with him...read this book (that you know he'll be interested in) and next we read my choice, your choice, my choice...and require him to do well in comprehension. ;)

 

With DS/10 I don't really know if PR is the ticket since his reading is at or a little above grade level, but comprehension is nill. He has done fantastic in spelling which is probably because he is a natural speller. PR will surely help this. The ability to decode and break down into syllables really took off for my son by using PR. You may see that he won't need to mark words for long b/c of his natural ability...you just want to make sure he understands WHY words are spelled the way they are. You can also practice lots of nonsense words using Elizabeth's website to ensure he is spelling phonetically and not just memorizing or "naturally" his way through...you'll have to judge that one since he's your student, just thinking aloud with you :) To improve comprehension you can also have him read aloud, you read aloud and slow him down a bit in his reading. Have him read a page or paragraph and stop to think about what he just read. These are good exercises for comprehension.

 

DS/8 just isn't reading very well and his year in ps last year didn't help since they didn't teach him any phonics. Because of this he just isn't doing well in reading, spelling, comprehension, dictation, ect.... Since I heard from another poster that AAS shouldn't be used as a reading program than I am assuming PR is the way to go.

Definitely will help here. PR changed the world for my last kiddo. I am not into spending a ton of money, but I find PR worth it, even if it was just for him. It has changed not only his skill level in LA, but also his attitude. Reading was not fun for either of us and now, he says PR helps words make sense.

I don't know if any of this helped, but I hope so!

[MerryAtHope]

Merry, thanks so much for letting us know. Can you tell us what will the pre-level include? Is it just teaching phonograms or will it have the student reading some words? Will any of the Beehive readers coordinate with it?

 

Here's what I have--I don't think there will be readers with it, I think it's strictly pre-reading readiness skills:

 

All About Reading Pre-1 is tentatively set to come out in October. This program covers phonological awareness; sounds of the letters of the alphabet plus beginning phonograms such as sh, th, ch; learning to blend sounds in order to read CVC words; and more. The instruction is through child-friendly hands-on activities. By the time the child completes the program, he has a strong foundation for reading and spelling and can easily move right into All About Spelling and All About Reading.

 

I just got AAS in the mail and I ordered the cobweb the cat book which says on it "All about reading level 1 book 3 " and all throughout the level 1 TM it schedules the "readers" as all about reading. Will AAR be pretty much using the AAS TMs along with the readers or are they releasing a different set of TMs to go with the readers?

 

Different TM's but they'll coordinate if people want them to or can be used separately if kids are reading faster than they are spelling--here's what I have on AAR Level 1:

 

All About Reading follows the same sequence as All About Spelling, and the first level of the program is due to be released by the end of the year. This is for new and struggling readers of all ages. The program includes decoding skills, fluency, comprehension, vocabulary and lots and lots of reading practice. It will use letter tiles just like AAS does.

[Bayt ul-Hikmah]

I can't wait for AAR!! My little ds is starting to sound out 3 and 4 letter words, and I am SO looking forward to trying out this program with him. :D