Okay WTM'ers - I know you're out there...

[LisaNY]

I posted this Q. a while ago, but I didn't hear from that many of you. Could you please share how you are handling WTM's history in the logic/rhetoric stages? I did this a few years ago, when my dd was in 9th gr., but it was for half a year. We got alot out of our studies, and I would love to hear how others handled it. (Nan, bless you - you helped me a lot when I was doing this with my dd)

 

I have the DK World History text, and I was going to use is as an overview of events. I'd like to view it w/my dd., to see how events in a particular time frame are related to one another. (For ex., how the French Revolution set off a series of revolutions in other areas.) My dd is still young, so we can't do a full-fledge GB study yet. There is an Intermediate Great Books Study that I found in the WTM Archives. I was going to take ideas from there.

 

C'mon now, Ladies, we had a big discussion not too long ago about how the WTM'ers and WTM/Classical studies are getting lost in the shuffle here. Well, here I am! Let's discuss WTM! :seeya:

[Jane in NC]

Bear in mind that we began homeschooling in 7th grade. That year we used the DK World History text and read many of the books on the WTM list. My son made time lines, wrote the occasional page on historical topics of interest, and discovered Albert Marrin books at the library. Because he had studied the American revolution and explorers at his Montessori school previously, we decided to spend more time on the French and Indian War, the French Revolution and the Napoleanic Wars. (Note the appeal of blood and gore.) If you are studying chemistry in 7th, I would suggest that you have your student read a biography on Lavoisier. This ties in science with your history work (French Revolution). My son became obsessed with Nelson and spent a fair amount of time writing a paper on him.

 

We subscribed to Cobblestone Magazine during this year which lead to a number of tangents.

 

In 8th, we continued with the WTM reading list, but decided we needed something meatier than DK (which we pulled out for occasional background information only). We borrowed some Hakim books from the library but felt they were a bit simplistic. Again, if Marrin wrote a book on something we were studying, my son read it. He also read a WWI encyclopedia from the children's department of the library and wrote a series of reports, drew maps, created timelines, etc. This led to a personal reckoning that one could never understand the causes of WWII without understanding WWI. We never made it to present times but I felt that my son had a terrific foundation for understanding 20th century political geography and history.

 

In 7th and 8th, we also used two of the Critical Thinking in US History books which contain primary source documents that allow students to see how history is interpretted. There is too much in a single volume for us to have covered in a year with everything else, but I felt that these were a great supplement.

 

In 9th and 10th (current year) we do things roughly as suggested in TWTM. My son reads Spielvogel, Great Books and we add Teaching Company lectures in the mix. We talk, talk, talk. Sometimes my son writes brief papers, some longer, sometimes notes on characters in books. For a more creative project he wrote a series of short stories based on a group of modern travelers ala The Canterbury Tales.

 

What else do you wish to know?

 

Jane

[Mama Lynx]

I don't have my plans fleshed out yet. (DS is only halfway through the "logic stage," why would I have my plans fleshed out? :lol:)

 

For both 5th and 6th grades, we used History Odyssey. Sort of. I love HO. Both years son tolerated it for about half the year, and then grew to dislike it. Since he has a passion for history, I don't want to force him into a program that kills the joy for him. (Still, *I* like the program!)

 

My tentative plan for 7th grade is to have him read through the relevant parts of Kingfisher; after that I will throw books at him (lots of Marrin, Landmark, Autobiography of Ben Franklin, etc). I do plan to work on outlining ala WTM, but not every week. I do plan to have him write short papers ala WTM, but not every week. I do plan to discuss a great deal with him, and to let him dwell on the parts of the time period that most interest him.

 

I have the same critical thinking books Jane mentioned. They are meaty, but will be fantastic for supplementation. I am unsure whether we will use these for logic or rhetoric.

 

For high school, I am planning much as Jane describes. I don't know yet if Spielvogel will be our choice (I haven't looked at it myself), but we are planning a great books study with some kind of history spine, and Teaching Company videos.

[Linda in NM]

OK, so we cheat--we use Trisms. I'd focus on finding some videos to supplement the time periods you're studying, and pursuing some research interests, such as the key figures in the French Revolution...(On that topic, we loved that time traveler book about the FR...can't remember the name, though...and, of course, Tale of Two Cities...) We did an overview of World History this year--from Trisms' HistoryMakers. My son loves the research questionnaires, and requested the same program for next year (we'll use Discovering the Ancient World). We also find great videos on Cosmeo...we just jumped from 1800 to the First World War, since we've never studied the 20th century (we're listening to SOTW in the car to review the 1800s as well...)

[Kelli in TN]

We follow the four year chronological for high school. Whenever there is a new freshman in the house we all go back to the ancients, no matter where we were in our cycle the year before.

 

With my current high schooler we are using a combination of Spielvogel ($8 used from half.com!! No extra charge for the pre-highlighting and notes in the margins), A Short History of Western Civilization ( the high school recommendation in the first of edition of WTM) and Notgrass World History and Notgrass American History (for easy readability). I have dd read from Notgrass first, then I match up the other two books to what she just read. It is a LOT of work but I feel good about the foundation she is getting here.

 

For literature we used Smarr in 9th and 10th grades. We usually discussed the works of lit as well, but when I was just too overwhelmed I at least knew the question/answer format in Smarr was keeping her accountable. I listened to her request to drop Smarr in 11th and 12th in favor of more writing, but I regret this and will not be doing it with future high schoolers. My next high schooler will use Smarr all the way through.

 

My next high schooler will be using as much of SWB's history series as possible. I don't know what the expected time frame is, but I am hoping the books are published a little bit ahead of where I need them.

 

As far as logic stage, at our house we roll the logic and grammar stage kids into one and we do SOTW but the logic stage kid does the supplementary reading from Kingfisher whereas the grammar stage kid does the supplementary reading from Usborne. Also the logic stage kid is forced to sit and watch history documentaries from Netflix with his mom. He does not like documentaries the way his mom does and his mom thinks perhaps the babies were switched at the hospital. How can you NOT love a PBS documentary on Thomas Jefferson? The logic stage kid would rather be watching Nest cartoons on unitedstreaming with his grammar stage sister.

[Mama Lynx]

Also the logic stage kid is forced to sit and watch history documentaries from Netflix with his mom. He does not like documentaries the way his mom does and his mom thinks perhaps the babies were switched at the hospital. How can you NOT love a PBS documentary on Thomas Jefferson? The logic stage kid would rather be watching Nest cartoons on unitedstreaming with his grammar stage sister.

 

LOL. Oh, yes, except it's my 4th grader who would rather be doing anything else in the world. Anything.

[Kelli in TN]

OK, so we cheat--we use Trisms. ...)

 

Hmmmm, to my way of thinking cheating is saying you're going to homeschool and then spending the day watching soap operas. If you count The Price is Right as math class, I would call that cheating.

 

I can't see Trisms as cheating!

[threetreasurs]

For my son's high school years, we followed Kolbe Academy's program. It doesn't divide the years up exactly as SWB does but follows the same principles of chronological history and great literature. The Kolbe list is not as comprehensive as hers but worked out well for us.

 

Kolbe also has a set of CD's introducing Greek and Roman History AND Literature that we found very useful.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I posted this Q. a while ago, but I didn't hear from that many of you. Could you please share how you are handling WTM's history in the logic/rhetoric stages?

 

My first thought was that this does not apply to me because my kids are too little. Then I realized Sterling is going into sixth grade, and that definitely IS logic stage.

 

I suppose the truth is that I have no clue what we're doing. I want to reserve my serious long term planning for after the next edition of LCC comes out. On the other hand, I can't resist a good excuse to make a spreadsheet.

 

Right now, second half of 5th grade, he's reading SOTW1, UILE and kids' versions of Greek classics. I'm going very easy on him.

 

For next year, 6th, I worked out a schedule coordinating The Cartoon History of the Universe by Larry Gonick with Story of the World II. We'll use UILE too. I hope to include a biography of Marco Polo and maybe Suzanne Strauss Art's Story of Islam. He'll alternate written narrations and outlines (from SOTW), producing one per week.

 

For 7th and 8th grade, I plan to create a reading schedule coordinating SOTW3+4 and A Young Person's History of the United States by Howard Zinn. I think this is when I'll begin expecting essays. If I have him read the Uncle Eric series at this age, comparing that with Zinn will make great essay fodder. If all goes well with house building, we'll be living together at this point, so documentaries from Netflix and historical fiction will be replacing endless hours spent watching Fairly Oddparents under his bio mom's care.

 

I can't plan high school yet. It's too far away. All I know for sure is that it will involve great books and primary sources.

[Mama Lynx]

I forgot to say: We're still strongly leaning towards reading Churchill in high school; I think my oldest will love it, and I love to teach/study British history.

[Linda in NM]

Well, I was sort of teasing...but it doesn't exactly follow a traditional WTM approach (if you consider reading excerpts from encyclopedias and outlining...)

[Kareni]

I worked out a schedule coordinating The Cartoon History of the Universe by Larry Gonick ...

 

This is a fun book which I had my daughter read too. There is also a Gonick book that covers American History.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[threetreasurs]

Definitely a fun book. Never thought to use it as a spine; clever idea!;)

 

This is a fun book which I had my daughter read too. There is also a Gonick book that covers American History.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Cedarmom]

Now we use Omnibus to do the great books. I also have him timeline the major events that happened at the time of the writing of the book that he is currently reading. Once in a while he does a summary page of the historical events. He loves doing maps, so he also maps several of the historical events.

 

Before we started Omnibus, he outlined the spine (Kingfisher and/or Usborne) that we were using. Of course, we read many of the books that Susan suggested for that time period. He loved reading the books.

 

In eighth grade he made a notebook that went along with the cycle of history we were studying. He filled in various things in his notebook, such as famous inventions, battles,people. He would have pictures and write summaries. The kind of thing people say their kids love, but he hated it.:001_smile:

 

Cedarmom

[dragons in the flower bed]

For next year, 6th, I worked out a schedule coordinating The Cartoon History of the Universe by Larry Gonick with Story of the World II. We'll use UILE too. I hope to include a biography of Marco Polo and maybe Suzanne Strauss Art's Story of Islam. He'll alternate written narrations and outlines (from SOTW), producing one per week.

 

Yikes. Notebooking everything is such a given in our house that I completely forgot to tell ya'll that I purchased WinterPromise's Make Your Own Medieval History Book for him, too. He has his own timeline binder, also from WinterPromise. Also, those written narrations will be on HistoryScribe pages.

[elizabeth]

We are using JMRoberts Illustrated History of the World it is fairly challenging reading but what a beautiful set of books ...Found through alibris and powells books. I am also using Jensen's Format Writing with brief research assignments on various topics as TWTM suggests. We are hitting the early moderns again this fall and plan to listen to Philbrick's Mayflower and Roanoke the lost colony as well. I do not like 1776 by Mccullough as the narrator annoys me for some reason. Anyway, that is the plan for Early Moderns. Modern history we will use the same spine with lots of books by Jacob Riis, Howard Zinn and other favourite history authors. I enjoy planning this way too much...If you need an online source for extra materials ,posters ,texts etc go to http://www.socialstudies.comhttp://socialstudies.com/

[Colleen in NS]

I posted this Q. a while ago, but I didn't hear from that many of you. Could you please share how you are handling WTM's history in the logic/rhetoric stages?

 

C'mon now, Ladies, we had a big discussion not too long ago about how the WTM'ers and WTM/Classical studies are getting lost in the shuffle here. Well, here I am! Let's discuss WTM! :seeya:

 

Since you included logic stage, I'll jump in here (ds 5th grade next year). :)

 

I'm pretty much going to do what's outlined in WTM....use KF for reading and outlining (with much coaching, after I get comfy with outlining it, which I am currently working on and it's not so bad...phew), and maybe trying outlining and rewriting from supplemental reading (encyclopedia, lib. books), somehow meshing in SOTW and Usborne, since I'm combining in my 2nd grade dd....I haven't fleshed out how this will all work yet. But I'm working on a plan that will work but not overwhelm anyone.

 

Also, I'll have ds work through the reading list in WTM, and we'll hash out the discussions and writing (like in the article you linked, Lisa). It'll be a new learning experience for me, too, just like when we started 1st grade narrations! :) I actually picked up an encyclopedia the other day and deliberately looked up Sargon to read about! This is new for me, to be digging into the content more! And I started a timeline last week - how cool a timeline is for getting an overall picture!!!! (sorry, I know this is old hat for a lot of you - I'm just so excited about new ways of learning)

 

I'm very much looking forward to a new stage, and it's great fun reading here about how people do this, too!

[Nan in Mass]

We go lightly on history in high school, due to sensitivity issues. Sigh. We read Spielvogel's Western Civ (a great continuation of Kingfisher in my opinion) and write the occasional paper. The rest of our great books is the literature half. We check with that giant timeline book (can't remember the name but it is in TWTM), which is fun, for each book. And we read whatever magazine articles come our way and watch some PBS programs. That's about it. It sounds completely inadequate, but the results seem to be good. My son knows quite a lot of history and happily points out connections and causes that I haven't thought of (woefully ignorant here) all the time as we discuss literature. He also has seen/heard/participated in quite a lot of history through his political activism.

-Nan

[Cedarmom]

. We check with that giant timeline book (can't remember the name but it is in TWTM), which is fun, for each book. -Nan

 

We also do this. The book we use is The Timetable of History We have been using it for so long and my son

just looks up the information on his own so I forget to mention it.

 

Cedarmom

[mcconnellboys]

I have my plan set for fifth grade, next year, beginning logic stage for the second time around. I was just looking over WTM again for the logic years and I think I've planned to do pretty much what's suggested there, which is what I did the first time around, as well. I think keeping a timeline will allow us to see over the course of that four years how things from different eras are related or how earlier things influence later events, etc.

 

For rhetoric stage, I decided with my older son that he really needed to be out in the arena with those other than me. He knew very well what my thoughts were and we had talked the events of history to death. He needed to hear the opinions of others on these subjects and he was really ready to delve much deeper into history. I cast around to try to get a great books discussion group for teens going, but wasn't successful. So we decided that he would take a couple of correspondence courses during his ninth grade year. (He didn't want to go on campus anywhere.) He decided to take Ancient Greek History and Culture, a freshman level course; and he was also allowed to take Greek Mythology, which was a sophomore level course that included a lot of writing. He loved both and did very well in them.

 

If he had stayed home this year, he was going to take the next level classical course, which was on Ancient Rome. As it turned out, he decided to re-enter private school, instead, so is back in a standard sort of world history course (and is a bit disappointed to have lost the minute focus he was able to have last year, too, LOL).

[Hilary]

Regena, what correspondence course did you use for those classes?

[Beth in SW WA]

I posted this Q. a while ago, but I didn't hear from that many of you. Could you please share how you are handling WTM's history in the logic/rhetoric stages?

 

Hi Lisa,

Omnibus is our current plan (w/ online Veritas online classes). I'm pre-reading and learning a ton because I somehow did not cover some/most of this content during my high school years. I'm still in the catch-up phase (I know, scary huh?) :)

[Jane in NC]

We also do this. The book we use is The Timetable of History We have been using it for so long and my son

just looks up the information on his own so I forget to mention it.

 

Cedarmom

 

Another vote for The Timetable book. It is great for making connections between what seem like disparate events.

 

Jane

[LisaNY]

Thank you, Ladies! I really appreciate all of the responses you gave!!

 

I've ordered several history resources from Amazon. I have the Rhetoric level resource books listed in WTM. The one thing I feel that I have to do is read some of the books I will assign for my dd to read. I'm reading Albert Marrin's War of 1812, and then plan to read his book on Napoleon. I am really enjoying Marrin's style of writing. He really pulls you in. My dd got pretty burned out with outlining KF last year, so I've put that on the back burner for now.

 

I will post an update on how things go once we settle into a routine. :001_smile:

 

Please, if anyone else has ideas to share, I'm all ears.

[mcconnellboys]

We did dual credit courses from Indiana University. Our local university (UK) proctored the tests for us.

 

My son was also taking a couple of high school level correspondence courses through UK's continuing education department, so they proctored the college tests for us free of charge, too! If you're interested in long distance college classes and have a nearby university, it might not hurt to contact their continuing education department to ask if you can get tests proctored through them - perhaps they'll even do it for free for you, which is a great savings.