What to do with an angry teenager?

[ciyates]

We are at our wits ends. DS (14) was sent home from leadership (BSA) camp for hitting another scout. They both admitted it was horse play and not out of anger but no hitting is allowed at all. I was very disappointed to hear this but very angry when I got home to see my son covered in bruises from him being hit by other kids. No one at camp will listen to me because DS didn't report it and no one else saw it. Okay so we moved on and called his Scoutmaster and he told me that DS had hit a kid the previous week. Again it was horsing around but it still isn't allowed. They are doing a special board of review to see if he can stay in or will he be asked to leave Scouts. I need help trying to get him under control and to really understand about keeping his hands to his self! :confused:

[QueenCat]

I would insist that every boy involved with hitting in any way also receive a "review". They best do it to all who hit, or NONE! Additionally, BSA EXPECTS the troop to work WITH all boys, and REQUIRES TWO adults to be present at all times. I would INSIST on knowing and speaking to the required TWO adults who were present. Additionally, I would insist the District Executive send someone to be part of the review. They will usually require the troop to make a contract with the boy, to give him a chance to change things. They are not supposed to just "talk to them", and then the next step is a review and OUT.... Don't let them think they can kick him out with out a fair chance at remediation, NOT TRUE. I'm talking about the troop, not leadership camp. That said, your son might find another troop a better fit if the adults are going to make him feel uncomfortable. Sorry you're going through this.

[Sophia]

We got a phone call about ds when he was 13 and at Scout camp. He was in the emergency room because the boy he got into a fight with was bigger and hit him harder.

I would not have described my ds as "angry" but dumb.

 

Boys that age horseplay, it [sometimes] gets ugly, and unfortunately, it sometimes takes getting kicked out of Scouts for them to learn to exhibit some self-control. In ds's case, he did not get kicked out, but did get a strict warning from the troop leader, and huge consequences from us.

 

He's 16 now, and still constantly "wrestling" with his peers.

I think they know when to stop or hold back, though, because they don't end up in the e.r. anymore.

[Julie in CA]

Yep. Where was the "two deep leadership" during these episodes? :confused:

Also, I'm very surprised it progressed to the point of possible expulsion without the parents being notified. Scouting is supposed to be an organization that teaches character. Is that an emphasis in your troop? If not, then a different troop might be a better fit. I would first, however, try to work this through with the troop your son is in right now, so that if you do end up in another troop, the problem doesn't "follow" your son, either in reputation or in his actual behavior. I'd also be trying to determine whether there was any bullying involved, either towards your son, or from your son. That is a different problem, imo, than a kid with an aggression problem in general.

[Rosie_0801]

This might seem way off topic, but putting aside the scout issue for the moment and considering the anger part, my brain jumped to this so I thought I'd mention it: https://www.flagpagetest.com/ It's not terribly expensive but might help a little. Anger doesn't usually come from nowhere.

 

Rosie

[Danestress]

Was there no anger or aggression in it, and just strict play? Was the other kid hurt? Is he angry or is he a buddy who is saying, "We were just playing, what's the big deal?"

 

It doesn't seem right to me that the scouts are handling it this way if two kids were just playing. On the other hand, I have three boys, and they rough house, but i have never had one really HIT the other to leave a bruise during strictly playful behavior.

 

Actually, "hitting" doesn't sound like play. I have one child who will hit the other and claim he was just playing/joking, but typically the other child didn't think it was fun and will report that it was in the midst of an argument or problem. In other words, one child calls it "play" and the other says, "he hit me because I wouldn't give him the remote control" or something like that.

 

I would want to sit down with the scouts and get the whole story with DS and the other kid there. If in that meeting, you hear form the other child, his parents, and the scouts, "There were just having fun and being playful" I would go to bat for DS in a big way. If what you hear is, "Your son starts things as play but gets too aggressive and hurts people in the course of that encounter" then I would want DS to hear that and learn from it. If the other child was asking him to stop and he didn't, I would want DS to have to hear that. It's possible that things start as play but that your son doesn't always know when to stop. Maybe he just needs help learning that. It seems like the BSA could really HELP with that.

[QueenCat]

They are doing a special board of review to see if he can stay in or will he be asked to leave Scouts.

 

This is the part where you really need to get District involved as the troop is supposed to work with the Scout, not just kick him out over something that has been happening for a few weeks! The District Executive is trained to deal with these issues and provide appropriate guidance.

[Chocolate Lover]

I was very disappointed to hear this but very angry when I got home to see my son covered in bruises from him being hit by other kids. No one at camp will listen to me because DS didn't report it

 

 

This needs to be documented..Please take pictures of the bruises. It would be great if the camera had the date as well. Do them each day to get the development of the bruising. This seems to me to be a possible situation of secrecy of some type. Collect evidence!

[Laurie4b]

We are at our wits ends. DS (14) was sent home from leadership (BSA) camp for hitting another scout. They both admitted it was horse play and not out of anger but no hitting is allowed at all. I was very disappointed to hear this but very angry when I got home to see my son covered in bruises from him being hit by other kids. No one at camp will listen to me because DS didn't report it and no one else saw it. Okay so we moved on and called his Scoutmaster and he told me that DS had hit a kid the previous week. Again it was horsing around but it still isn't allowed. They are doing a special board of review to see if he can stay in or will he be asked to leave Scouts. I need help trying to get him under control and to really understand about keeping his hands to his self! :confused:

 

Why did you title your post "What so you do with an angry teenager" when here you say it was not out of anger? I'm confused.

 

I think the issue is more how do you teach ds to not engage in roughhousing when it's against the rules (because it's also a very normal thing for boys that age to do.)

 

I would take photos of the bruises. I wonder if there was some kind of hazing going on.

[Renee in NC]

Why did you title your post "What so you do with an angry teenager" when here you say it was not out of anger? I'm confused.

 

I think the issue is more how do you teach ds to not engage in roughhousing when it's against the rules (because it's also a very normal thing for boys that age to do.)

 

I would take photos of the bruises. I wonder if there was some kind of hazing going on.

 

Or teasing. My ds got into a fight at boy scout camp where he attacked another boy, but it was because they teased him over and over and over at camp. This is not the first incident he has had with teasing/bullying (and he brings some of this onto himself), but it was the first time he did something about it. The leaders never told me - my ds did. He said they just talked to him and the other boy agreed to lay off.

 

OP, I would definitely get the district involved because that way there is at least some impartiality and you will know that Boy Scout rules are being followed.

[....]

Ya' know...this is just my 2 cents...(and I know it depends on the adults) but I've noticed a big lack of supervision with our cub scouts - especially when they went to camp in June. In fact, my 7 yro had heat exhaustion when I picked him up on Day 3 and no adult had noticed. We ended up taking him to the hospital - his temp was almost 105 and he was crying out to me in pain. I didn't let him go back to camp (well, he couldn't - he was pretty sick).

 

Anyhoo, I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe your son was goofing around in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe no one saw the other boys horsing around. I would report the bruising to your pack's cubmaster - or whatever they're called at the older boys' levels.

[Renee in NC]

Ya' know...this is just my 2 cents...(and I know it depends on the adults) but I've noticed a big lack of supervision with our cub scouts - especially when they went to camp in June. In fact, my 7 yro had heat exhaustion when I picked him up on Day 3 and no adult had noticed. We ended up taking him to the hospital - his temp was almost 105 and he was crying out to me in pain. I didn't let him go back to camp (well, he couldn't - he was pretty sick).

 

Anyhoo, I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe your son was goofing around in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe no one saw the other boys horsing around. I would report the bruising to your pack's cubmaster - or whatever they're called at the older boys' levels.

 

I agree there is a big lack of supervision. Several incidents have happened because the boys were without supervision (or any kind of organized activity) and got into trouble.

 

I try to remember that the Scout leaders are just volunteers. I am pushing for dh and I to be involved with *all* activities so that we can provide an extra set of eyes.

[....]

I agree there is a big lack of supervision. Several incidents have happened because the boys were without supervision (or any kind of organized activity) and got into trouble.

 

I try to remember that the Scout leaders are just volunteers. I am pushing for dh and I to be involved with *all* activities so that we can provide an extra set of eyes.

 

Yeah...my husband is actually taking over as den leader in August. :glare:

 

'Twas really sad, tho...poor little guy. He had to have been in a lot of pain for a while and nobody noticed or he was afraid to say something because he didn't want to miss out on what the other boys were doing. :crying:

[Renee in NC]

Yeah...my husband is actually taking over as den leader in August. :glare:

 

'Twas really sad, tho...poor little guy. He had to have been in a lot of pain for a while and nobody noticed or he was afraid to say something because he didn't want to miss out on what the other boys were doing. :crying:

 

That is so dangerous, too! You have given me something else I should keep an eye out for. They were really big about the boys drinking water at camp, but it is almost always hot here. I'll be sure to watch for signs during activities.

[ciyates]

There is no supervision. This is the same group that my son's hand got hurt with. I asked the camp leader why there was no adult supervision. He kept saying the point of Leadership camp is for the boys to manage themselves. The DE was there and told me repeatedly that she believed my DS and this wasn't a big deal but the policy says no physical contact. DS agreed with he was in the wrong and should leave but is upset no one else is getting punished. I made him call his Scoutmaster and tell him what was going on. I had the call on speaker phone and the Scoutmaster said well I am disappointed but tell me what you learned. DS told him and he seemed happy. He then asked to speak to me. When he got on the phone with me he told me about the second incident (which was never addressed with my DS, me or my husband). He said since two incidents were so close together that he had to have a special BOR with the committee chair and would decide if he was going to be asked to leave the troop.

 

My main concern now is how to get DS to have some impulse control, to keep his hands to his self and make sure he doesn't explode in anger. Again both instances were wrestling and not out of anger but he is furious that he is the one getting into trouble and no one else is.

[elfgivas]

hi ciyates -

 

hats off to you. whatever else was going on (supervision, lack of supervision, etc, etc) the one real thing you can address is to help your son deal with his own impulses and behavior. he will likely find himself in other situations like that again.... most of us do.... so for him to decide who HE is and how HE handles himself is a huge thing. (by all means, you can parallel track it with talking to the scout leaders about what comes next and about why your ds is the one carrying the can, but that doesn't change the need to address it with him, KWIM?)

 

maybe try routines? same bed times, same meal times, lots of good healthy outdoor exercise, minimal or no media.... and see if it makes a difference.

 

fwiw,

ann

[Sophia]

My main concern now is how to get DS to have some impulse control, to keep his hands to his self and make sure he doesn't explode in anger. Again both instances were wrestling and not out of anger but he is furious that he is the one getting into trouble and no one else is.

 

I shared in a pp about our ds's experience at camp.

Dh and I told the troop leaders-in front of our ds- that we would not challenge whatever decision they made about ds continued involvement in the troop.

Ds also needed impulse control, and we felt the best way for him to learn that was to suffer the natural consequences of his behavior.

Ds-and I suspect your ds as well-knew the rules re. physical contact. Because he was at leadership camp, dh and I would not expect him to need constant supervision. He was training to be a leader and have future supervisory roles over other scouts-his behavior should have been exemplary.

Ds did have other kids in the troop who were problematic-antagonizers and whatnot- he and dh had previously discussed how to handle those types of situations (where others provoked/started nonsense) but the situation ds was involved in was just as much his fault as the other boy's.

 

Quite frankly, we told our son the other boy's consequences were not our concern. He was wrong for what he did and that's all that mattered to us.

 

His anger should only be directed at himself.

 

That same year I did outsource some classes for him so he could begin having outside accountability to other adults.

 

Those middle school years, imo, are crucial to developing self-control and taking responsibility for one's actions.

[ciyates]

I shared in a pp about our ds's experience at camp.

Dh and I told the troop leaders-in front of our ds- that we would not challenge whatever decision they made about ds continued involvement in the troop.

Ds also needed impulse control, and we felt the best way for him to learn that was to suffer the natural consequences of his behavior.

Ds-and I suspect your ds as well-knew the rules re. physical contact. Because he was at leadership camp, dh and I would not expect him to need constant supervision. He was training to be a leader and have future supervisory roles over other scouts-his behavior should have been exemplary.

Ds did have other kids in the troop who were problematic-antagonizers and whatnot- he and dh had previously discussed how to handle those types of situations (where others provoked/started nonsense) but the situation ds was involved in was just as much his fault as the other boy's.

 

Quite frankly, we told our son the other boy's consequences were not our concern. He was wrong for what he did and that's all that mattered to us.

 

His anger should only be directed at himself.

 

That same year I did outsource some classes for him so he could begin having outside accountability to other adults.

 

Those middle school years, imo, are crucial to developing self-control and taking responsibility for one's actions.

 

That is the track we are trying to take. We have a book called the Heart of Anger and are reading through and discussing it together as a family. I am just at a lose as to where to go next.

[SonshineLearner]

My first thought was martial arts... takes time.... and teaches respect.. amongst other skills :)

[Sophia]

That is the track we are trying to take. We have a book called the Heart of Anger and are reading through and discussing it together as a family. I am just at a lose as to where to go next.

 

I haven't read that book although I've heard good things about it.

 

Is he your oldest boy? One thing I learned with my oldest, is that some concepts just take time and maturity. If your boy is like mine, he's going to get stuck on "fair", especially when he's being held accountable. Our tactic was to agree-life isn't fair, and since we have now confirmed that for you, it is to your advantage to do the right thing and minimize further problems for yourself.

 

My ds didn't like hearing that, and he got angry too.

 

We always tried to make him understand that we are on his side and ultimately our goal was to raise him up to be an honorable, God-fearing man (we're Christians and we always insert our values in our talks with ds) and if he had to experience some consequences in order to learn some lessons, then we weren't going to help him avoid them.

 

Stand firm and don't help him make excuses for himself.

We also gave ds plenty of opportunities to show us he was growing in responsibility and maturity. It's just as important to encourage them at this time as it is to hold them accountable.

hth,

 

(fwiw, ds is now 16 and has grown sooooo much in the past three years. There is hope for these thickheaded boys of ours ;))

[ciyates]

Thanks for the encouragement Sophie!

[Peela]

I dont know how your system works over there, but here in Australia, at 14.5 they can go up to Venturers, the next level up. When my son was a Patrol Leader, age 13, he was singled out and picked on by one leader especially, but all of them to some extent (there are 4), for irresponsible behaviour....even though he was one of many doing the silly things (such as throwing honkey nuts- large gumnuts- during a camp). As a PL, the adult leaders felt he should be repirmanded much more severely than the other kids and he was incredibly persecuted for at least 6 months. I did step in at one point and say "enough" because I felt they were being ridiculous and unreasonable...he could get away with nothing, while everyone aroudn him mucked around a lot.

 

Anyway, overall...it has been a very good learning experience for ds14. We supported him...we wouldnt let him leave Scouts because we consider it part of our kids' education...and he learned to handle being "picked on" and to behave better in front of the adult leaders at least! He grew and matured through it and is now very respected and treated well.

 

I think the whole Scout process can be messy and a bit unreasonable, but if the adult leaders are half decent, they are doing their best and the processes should be in place will deal with the situation, as much as possible. There were several meetings for my son, and he was demoted from being a PL ....which actually suited him because he wasnt ready for the responsibility. And having the leaders watch him was a good thing, even though it really did go overboard and at the time I was upset for him.

 

So...yes, work with your son, but ultimately it is him who has to walk the path and learn to manage himself suitable in a group situation. I felt my son was immature and not used to "hiding" his behaviour from adults the way some other kids who go to school are. He hadnt learned to be tricky!

Your son is copping the consequences of his behaviour and no, life is not fair at all...it wasnt to my son either....but ultimately, he was caught, so crying "its not fair" isnt really right either.

 

I used to listen to my sons complaints every week, and actually I empthasied with him and just helped him handle it all emotionally rather than bottling it up. I let him talk- often he would pour it out for a solid 10 minutes after a Scout evening or event. But it helped, I think. I couldnt do it for him, and he learned to handle himself and the adults better. I tihnk listening just helped him express what was bottled up so he didnt get bitter.

 

The consequences are already in place. Its whether they hit him where it hurts or not, so he learns to modify his behaviour appropriately.