Buying, but not receiving...shipping question?

[Tohru]

I bought something from an online business and they shipped it with a tracking number. Unfortunately it seems that the post office has lost the package. I can see where the tracking information stops (left sorting facility) but it still has not been delivered and the tracking information says it's on the way. :angry: USPS has had the same status for over a week.

 

I emailed both the post office and the seller last week, NEITHER responded. I filed a claim with paypal because the business wont answer the phone or return my emails.

 

My question is, who is responsible to pay for this? Me or the seller? I've tried to contact the seller numerous times, but haven't heard from them, however they did respond to paypal, giving the same tracking number that I have....

[jplain]

Who is responsible? That's a matter of opinion.

 

When dealing with an individual, I tend to believe the risk is mine, assuming the seller can produce a tracking number that was manually scanned at a post office, not just printed at home. For small purchases, I don't purchase insurance. For larger ones, I request that it be added, and I mention that insurance is required for the transaction in the PayPal transaction details.

 

When dealing with a businesses, I believe it is their responsibility to re-send the product or refund my money, because they can write off the loss at tax time.

 

Very small (ie. work at home mom) businesses are something of a gray area in my opinion, and in those cases I request insurance.

 

PayPal will likely side with the seller, as the tracking number proves the package was sent. If you paid via credit card, and file a chargeback with your credit card company, they may very well side with you and refund the charge. Credit card companies tend to place more responsibility on the retailer. After all, you held up your end of the deal, and the company can write off the loss come tax time. You can begin the chargeback process by calling your cc company, but don't do that until after PayPal has decided the dispute in the seller's favor.

Edited July 1, 2010 by jplain

[jplain]

If the post office says it is out for delivery then the seller did their bit and I would be all over the po like white on rice.

It isn't out for delivery. It is lost within the system.

The post office cannot do much if insurance was not purchased.

You can request a trace on the package, but if it's lost, it's lost.

 

Sure, the seller did their bit. But so did the buyer. Why should the buyer absorb the loss?

 

Here's how I see it: until the package is in my hands, undamaged, the transaction is incomplete.

If it does not arrive, or is damaged in transit, the seller has a responsibility to make it right.

Edited July 1, 2010 by jplain

[jplain]

Oh wait, how far away is the seller, what method of shipping was used, and where was the sort facility where it was last scanned? If it was media mail or parcel post, it may not be time to get worried yet. If the package is on a truck traveling across the country, it won't be scanned again until it reaches your local sort facility. So it is plausible that the status could be unchanged for a week or more.

[Lolly]

I just had trouble with the tracking with USPS a little bit ago. I wonder if something is just wrong with their system right now. Their shipping also made no sense. Fortunately, my order was through Amazon who is large enough to cover things like this!

 

My package started out an hour away from my house. Then, it shipped to a destination 6 hours north of me? From there, it moved to a location about 6 hours east of here. Next, it journeyed to a location 5 hours south of my home where it decided to sit for a few days. Finally, several days after the anticipated delivery and passing back through the city of origin, it was left on my front porch.

 

My guess is USPS is having some sort of major computer problems. (Which doesn't help you one bit!):grouphug:

[Julie in CA]

I bought something from an online business and they shipped it with a tracking number. Unfortunately it seems that the post office has lost the package. I can see where the tracking information stops (left sorting facility) but it still has not been delivered and the tracking information says it's on the way. :angry: USPS has had the same status for over a week.

 

I emailed both the post office and the seller last week, NEITHER responded. I filed a claim with paypal because the business wont answer the phone or return my emails.

 

My question is, who is responsible to pay for this? Me or the seller? I've tried to contact the seller numerous times, but haven't heard from them, however they did respond to paypal, giving the same tracking number that I have....

How long has it been?

[Giraffe]

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I'm seeing it mentioned a lot more on these boards.

 

This is why commercial businesses that ship a lot tend to specify either FOB (Free On Board) Destination or Shipping. FOB Destination means risk of shipping remains with seller until the buyer RECEIVES THE GOODS. FOB Shipping means risk of shipping transfers to the buyer at the moment of shipment.

 

Perhaps we need to go back to specifying the FOB point when the transaction is initiated. That way it's clear when the risk transfers. It sounds like you (the buyer) assumed FOB Destination, but the seller is assuming FOB Shipping Point. It's an outdated terminology from the 1940s, but the underlying principles work.

 

Hopefully the USPS will eventually deliver the package!

[Gooblink]

It'll show up, eventually. I've had this happen to me a couple of times and the package has arrived several weeks later.

 

On the other hand...once we had an insurance check intercepted in the mail and cashed by a thrid party. The police wouldn't do anything, the bank that cashed the check said "too bad, so sad," and the insurance company said it wasn't their problem, but our lawyer said...no, it's the insurance company's responsibility to get the envelope to you and having it intercepted en route was the same as having it stolen off one of their employee's desks. So, he wrote a nice letter and the company re-issued the check. It still irks me that someone got away with it, though, and I would have pinned the liability on the bank.

[twilkin]

I purchased an item two months ago that never showed up. The seller never got a confirmation # but I believed her to be honest so we agreed to split the cost and she refunded me half the purchase price. She of course was out the product and shipping cost.

I guess if the person has a confirmation that they shipped it I would ask for a split because neither of you are at fault. Just bad luck.

If it is a large business I would expect them to issue a full refund as they can write it off.

It's fairly rotten that we pay so much for the confirmation # and it still gets lost in the system. I thought the package was supposed to be scanned everywhere it went but I usually only see the origin scan and then the final destination scan. That leaves a whole lot of in between!!

[elegantlion]

If it was sent media mail, it can be notoriously slow. Delivery confirmation isn't always updated either.

 

I believe USPS states it has to be a minimum of 28 days after shipment to even consider something lost. I've had media take that long before.

 

It's not even really the distance, it's the volume of mail. Media mail is taken on a space available basis.

[Tohru]

Thanks for the replies.

It was shipped USPS Priority and left the sorting facility in Denver last week, one hour from me. Generally it only takes one postal day for mail to get from Denver to my house.

 

The item was not a small $$$ amount, so I'm quite frustrated and really can't even entertain the idea of splitting the money without a serious financial setback on my part. The company is small, so I don't know what's going to happen. I guess there is nothing I can do except just wait for Paypal to make their decision in 10 days.

[nukeswife]

I sure hope your package shows up. Sometimes things just get mis-sorted. Just a tip on Delivery Confirmation, it's just that a confirmation of delivery, it's not meant to be a tracking number like UPS gives.

Here's what the USPS says about the difference between Tracking and Deliv. Confirmation, the bolding is mine.

 

Premium products, such as Express Mail®, include Tracking. This means that a user checking the Track & Confirm site for a mailpiece sent via Express Mail should see, at a minimum, when the mailpiece was accepted and when it was delivered or a delivery attempt occurred. Additionally, the user will likely see several additional scans as the item moves through the mail stream, such as “processed’ or “arrival at unitâ€. Products that include tracking provide end-to-end visibility.

 

Lower-cost products, such as Delivery Confirmationâ„¢, only include Confirmation of Delivery. This means that a user checking the Track & Confirm site for a mailpiece sent with Delivery Confirmation should see, at a minimum, when the mailpiece was delivered or when a delivery attempt occurred. USPS may also provide users with additional scan on items that include confirmation of delivery, such as “processedâ€, “arrival at unitâ€, or “out for delivery.†However, the price of these lower-cost products does not include end-to-end visibility.

[jplain]

Aw bummer. If it was sent Priority, it should have arrived by now, even if it was waylaid along the journey.

 

If the item never arrives, and PayPal decides in the seller's favor, and the seller declines to re-send the items you purchased, and you don't have the option of disputing the charge with your credit card, consider posting your experience on review sites. Don't trash the company, but point out that in your situation, the company chose revenue over customer goodwill.

[Murmer]

Who is responsible? That's a matter of opinion.

 

When dealing with an individual, I tend to believe the risk is mine, assuming the seller can produce a tracking number that was manually scanned at a post office, not just printed at home. For small purchases, I don't purchase insurance. For larger ones, I request that it be added, and I mention that insurance is required for the transaction in the PayPal transaction details.

 

When dealing with a businesses, I believe it is their responsibility to re-send the product or refund my money, because they can write off the loss at tax time.

 

Very small (ie. work at home mom) businesses are something of a gray area in my opinion, and in those cases I request insurance.

 

PayPal will likely side with the seller, as the tracking number proves the package was sent. If you paid via credit card, and file a chargeback with your credit card company, they may very well side with you and refund the charge. Credit card companies tend to place more responsibility on the retailer. After all, you held up your end of the deal, and the company can write off the loss come tax time. You can begin the chargeback process by calling your cc company, but don't do that until after PayPal has decided the dispute in the seller's favor.

 

Actually from all of my experiences and time on other selling boards paypal usually sides with the buyer. They seem to rule off the premise that it is the job of the seller to ensure that the product arrives at its destination. That is why they require delivery confirmation (which is not tracking but only confirmation of delivery) and sadly if it says delivered there is little to no recourse for not as described (except on Ebay). But they do usually side with the buyer in not recieved cases.

[jplain]

Actually from all of my experiences and time on other selling boards paypal usually sides with the buyer.

Ah, it sounds like things have changed. A few years ago, I got a "tough luck" from PayPal when a package never arrived and I filed a dispute. :glare:

[melissel]

I bought something from an online business and they shipped it with a tracking number. Unfortunately it seems that the post office has lost the package. I can see where the tracking information stops (left sorting facility) but it still has not been delivered and the tracking information says it's on the way. :angry: USPS has had the same status for over a week.

 

I emailed both the post office and the seller last week, NEITHER responded. I filed a claim with paypal because the business wont answer the phone or return my emails.

 

My question is, who is responsible to pay for this? Me or the seller? I've tried to contact the seller numerous times, but haven't heard from them, however they did respond to paypal, giving the same tracking number that I have....

 

Honestly? I would assume it was delayed in transit and wait longer. It is the week before a holiday--lots of people could be on vacation. And Priority Mail is not guaranteed to arrive within any time frame, in spite of the 2-3 day claim. I once had a Priority Mail package take two weeks to arrive. I have a feeling Paypal is going to tell you the same thing.