Question for lit-based history people

[Avila]

OK, I am rewording!

 

I guess this is mostly philosophical, but I am curious. In reading the other history threads spinning around, it seems like the issue of us being accountable for the texts we are using looms really big for some people. I get that. But if you are using a literature-based program (like Sonlight or TOG), does anybody really pre-screen all the books before you buy them? After you buy them but before you assign them to the kids? Should we be?

 

For my younger two, this is a non-issue. I read to them. But my oldest is working mostly independently. I do pre-read some things when the source is something I have questions about, but if the recommendation comes from a source we trust, I just assign the book. If we do find issues, I trust my DD to ask and then we discuss them as they come up.

 

But especially for the people who are taking the issue with books like TCoO being used, I would be curious to know how you handle this. Are you avoiding prepackaged programs or reading it all first?

 

And for people who are using them, did any of this make you uncomfortable with the idea?

Edited June 23, 2010 by Asenik

[johnandtinagilbert]

I read aloud everything to LG students, too...non-issue.

 

For UG, D, and R no, I don't pre-read. Using TOG provides a very nice heads up to possibly controversial issues They give warnings all over the place on areas that may offend (nudity, mythological teaching, anti-whatever) etc. I stick to the study notes provided, unless a dc comes to me (which they generally do) with some hate speech or a book they absolutely love, I don't read it all.

 

Having said that, I'll have to read the R lit. b/c it seems our discussions need me to :) I can get by anything in history w. the notes and previous knowledge, but *I'm* weak in lit, so I want to read it all :)

 

I used to read everything...and I hardly slept and dh hated me schooling all night every night. TOG brought me peace of mind in this regard and continues to do so, in spite of previous threads.

[chris's girl]

I don't. I generally don't choose sources I don't trust, and with 3 chapter book readers there's no way I could read every book--we'd never get to the learning!

[Avila]

I used to read everything...and I hardly slept and dh hated me schooling all night every night. TOG brought me peace of mind in this regard and continues to do so, in spite of previous threads.

 

Thank you, Tina. I appreciate hearing your prespective on this part!

[swimmermom3]

OK, I am rewording!

 

I guess this is mostly philosophical, but I am curious. In reading the other history threads spinning around, it seems like the issue of us being accountable for the texts we are using looms really big for some people. I get that. But if you are using a literature-based program (like Sonlight or TOG), does anybody really pre-screen all the books before you buy them? After you buy them but before you assign them to the kids? Should we be?

 

For my younger two, this is a non-issue. I read to them. But my oldest is working mostly independently. I do pre-read some things when the source is something I have questions about, but if the recommendation comes from a source we trust, I just assign the book. If we do find issues, I trust my DD to ask and then we discuss them as they come up.

 

But especially for the people who are taking the issue with books like TCoO being used, I would be curious to know how you handle this. Are you avoiding prepackaged programs or reading it all first?

 

And for people who are using them, did any of this make you uncomfortable with the idea?

 

The first round of high school math is about to start so I don't know if I can do your questions justice. First, pre-reading an entire curriculum before purchasing is impractical especially if it is literature-based. Thank goodness this idea never occurred to me the first year we home schooled or I would have given up right there. I am an avid and prolific reader; however, we used 2 SL cores and much of the literature from a third core. We are talking well over 100 books of which I had read maybe a third. I read everything with the youngest - I did pre-read readers but more so that we could have a genuine discussion.

 

Ack! Out of time. This is a conversation worth having so I hope more join in.

 

Aesnik, you do the best you can as a parent within your setting and after that, you have to let the guilt go. Those threads made me mighty uncomfortable not so much about individual books but about curriculum suppliers. In my ideal world, I would not buy from some of them based on my values. On the other hand, I want to do the best by my children and I would probably buy TOG all over again just to see how it is done and adapt those ideas for my teaching - and this comes from a woman with a secular viewpoint who purchased TOG Y1. If I were starting homeschooling tomorrow and didn't have the time to do vast quantities of research, I would still buy SL and still cringe at the book that calls Tokyo "satan's stronghold."

[Avila]

There is no way I could spend the kind of time or money it would take to do that kind of vetting. And it never occurred to me that anybody else would until the other discussions hit.

 

I am just not sure where I stand now on being able to use a program that doesn't hold my worldview if I am not screening it, and then I don't really like that idea either because I believe in exposing my kids widely to other beliefs, ideas, religions and cultures and discussing it with them. And to do that properly, you have to have things that accurately represent those other views to base the discussion from.

 

Anyhow, thanks to those who have responded.

[Shelly in the Country]

But if you are using a literature-based program (like Sonlight or TOG), does anybody really pre-screen all the books before you buy them?

 

I read aloud to my dd when she was younger, and I still read aloud to my younger kids (and they read aloud to me :001_smile:), so yeah, this is a non-issue with my youngers. My eldest is now 10, I don't think of older elementary/middle school aged kid-dom in the same way. This may be my upbringing but....

 

In spite of the fact I was raised in a very strict Christian home, I was allowed to read whatever I wanted after a certain age. I was reading Fahrenheit 451 when I was 11. I know my dd 10 has her own opinions of things now. I showed her much of these "evil book" threads and portions of TCoO with the offensive language, as a teaching moment, actually :001_smile:. I don't feel the need to screen middle school and certainly not high school. I talk with my kids about worldview-type issues all the time. They are being raised to think critically about things. Discussion is key.

[coffeefreak]

We've used Ambleside, Sonlight, Beautiful Feet, Veritas Press, and My Father's World. I have never pre-read, but I do thumb through. Sonlight's American History Spine was one of the reasons I didn't use Sonlight 3 or 4. However, that doesn't mean I catch everything. For example, I've never read "Bridge to Teribithia," so, when dd got to the death in the story, I felt awful. We dealt with it. When she read a French Fairy tale about a man who cut up his wives and stuffed them in a cupboard:glare:, we dealt with it. Even I "accidentally" read books that half way through I go WHAAAATTT?!?! Life is unexpected. We deal with it.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[johnandtinagilbert]

I am just not sure where I stand now on being able to use a program that doesn't hold my worldview if I am not screening it, and then I don't really like that idea either because I believe in exposing my kids widely to other beliefs, ideas, religions and cultures and discussing it with them. And to do that properly, you have to have things that accurately represent those other views to base the discussion from.

 

Anyhow, thanks to those who have responded.

 

TOG is surely a Christian worldview, but I can say objectively, it uses materials that are sensitive to other beliefs, in that is chooses resources like DK, Usborne, etc. that reflect a neutral tone on religion. I have never had a problem in teaching, then comparing differences in one worldview to another. The teacher's notes do point out biblical perspective on such issues, but whether or not you discuss or teach those is honestly up to you. The comparisons are in the Teacher's Notes. Your students may never know they exist!

 

The literature is often associated with a Christian worldview, but they are generic in presentation and generally of good use to most Christian families.

 

There are suggestions for Catholic users. Even Yahoo groups for such.

 

I think there might be a secular TOG yahoo group, too...go figure:)

 

It does, for church history have a protestant slant. I am of a very different persuasion of Christianity than the authors. They are strong Calvinists, me Arminian roots. That's a huge difference in worldview, but one that has never stopped or hindered our use of TOG.

 

Really, if you don't like the book, don't use it, but don't let that ONE book sway you from a rich and wonderful program. Honestly, it's masterful! And suggested books are numerous, so you can always find a way!

 

First, people give grief about planning (too heavy); then the $$ (too expensive); now TCoO...really, all bad raps, all easy to work around, none a big deal!

[MerryAtHope]

I don't pre-read before buying. I do look at who recommends them, and I do read on forums what people say about them. I also routinely ask which books have controversial issues or are important to preread. I focus on prereading those (not read-alouds, just readers). If I get to others, great, but if not, I'm not as concerned about those. You can learn tons about books online and find out which ones to preread, so that if you don't get to all of them it's ok.

 

I also preread anything I think I'll want to discuss, but occasionally I've read it afterwards if my kids couldn't answer my questions about the book or if I think they are not understanding part of it.

 

Merry :-)

[Matryoshka]

We've done a very heavy lit-based history, but I made all the lists myself. Especially as they've gotten older, there's no way I can pre-read everything, but I do check out the reviews on Amazon quite extensively - not just whether they're good or bad, but what they have to say. There are lots of instances of bad reviews from kids who just don't like to read "my teacher made me read this stupid book", and others that rave about a book with content I would find questionable - but usually that comes out from reading other reviews of the book. If the book looks like a possiblity but the reviews raise some red flags, I will preview that book.

 

I don't just do this reviewing for questionable content, but just as much to narrow down the many choices available to what seems most worthwhile as far as what's covered and how interesting the plot/characters might be to my girls. I do use plenty of books from the other "lists" out there (mostly historical fiction, not spines).

[Sophia]

I have used Sonlight and ToG in the past.

I do pre-screen books, but do not pre-read them.

 

Whether or not that's something you should be doing is really something for families to decide for themselves. Even in the same family, acceptable books can vary. For instance, my oldest two did very well with Greek and Roman mythology. My second daughter (bless her heart ;)) would have placed those gods right next to Christ had she learned about them at the same age as her older sibs. Needless to say, I put those books away until I determined she was ready for them.

 

Irt to books that contain elements of bigotry and racism; all I can say is my older kids are amazing :D and I do not fear a book will turn them into racists.

 

However, their ability to spot bigotry and racism has less to do with books than with the environment they are raised in. Their dad and I talk everything to death. Passing our values on to our children is that important to us.

 

I mentioned in another post that I did not care for Hakim and sold it. What I neglected to add is that my oldest (then 12 or 13) did like it.

When I shared my concerns (can't recall them now and the book is gone) he said he knew I would not like that, he didn't like it either, but he did like the rest of the book and could he please finish it?

 

Yes. He could. And he's not a flaming liberal now either. But he is discerning and I don't regret letting him read it.

 

So...I believe books/ curriculums are important in shaping children and should be chosen thoughtfully,but a book or program by itself is not going to mold them, especially when they are in a family who uses them as tools in raising children to love God and love others (as we are.)

[johnandtinagilbert]

I have used Sonlight and ToG in the past.

I do pre-screen books, but do not pre-read them.

 

Whether or not that's something you should be doing is really something for families to decide for themselves. Even in the same family, acceptable books can vary. For instance, my oldest two did very well with Greek and Roman mythology. My second daughter (bless her heart ;)) would have placed those gods right next to Christ had she learned about them at the same age as her older sibs. Needless to say, I put those books away until I determined she was ready for them.

 

Irt to books that contain elements of bigotry and racism; all I can say is my older kids are amazing :D and I do not fear a book will turn them into racists.

 

However, their ability to spot bigotry and racism has less to do with books than with the environment they are raised in. Their dad and I talk everything to death. Passing our values on to our children is that important to us.

 

I mentioned in another post that I did not care for Hakim and sold it. What I neglected to add is that my oldest (then 12 or 13) did like it.

When I shared my concerns (can't recall them now and the book is gone) he said he knew I would not like that, he didn't like it either, but he did like the rest of the book and could he please finish it?

 

Yes. He could. And he's not a flaming liberal now either. But he is discerning and I don't regret letting him read it.

 

So...I believe books/ curriculums are important in shaping children and should be chosen thoughtfully,but a book or program by itself is not going to mold them, especially when they are in a family who uses them as tools in raising children to love God and love others (as we are.)

Nicely done.

[VBoulden]

I just started this parenting/ homeschooling journey, basically, compared to many, but I am not/ will not be a pre-reader.

 

I am already letting Norah (my five year old) read early reader books off the library shelf that I have not read. Sometimes I am just too busy to read every Frog and Toad first, okay?!! :001_smile:

 

I know I won't catch everything, especially when she is older, but hopefully, I am building a kid with the kind of character to know when it's right to shut a book and say, "Wow. Mom wouldn't want me to read anymore of this..." and come tell me about it and we'll discuss it as forthrightly as the book did, no more, no less.

 

If this happens, I hope she knows I will not accuse her of picking a risque book on purpose. And I will TRY not to feel guilty myself for not having the time to read it ahead of time. I'd rather use the pre-read time to read picture books with her baby sisters and brothers.

 

This rubbing against evil is being "in the world, but not of it." We will also deal with this when we pass magazines with our kids in grocery store isles, go to the beach and swim with ladies in skimpy suits, etc. We just have to deal with people who don't have the same standards.

 

Now, if I were just handing her a teen romance novel and saying "read this" or letting her check out books with bloody knives on the cover all the time, I think that would be the same as tying bricks around her feet and throwing her in the river and expecting her not to sink, in a Biblical sense, but that's not what I am talking about.

 

If the book has a vampire on the front, I will probably use common sense and say "No." for obvious reasons. I'd probably continue saying "No" until she is old enough to make a decent, respectful argument for why she wants to read the book. If she, somehow, made a reasonable argument, which I doubt is possible, but if she did, I will probably read any questionable books before she does and if they aren't too, too bad, I'd then let her read them with me and we'd discuss them. (Gasp!)

 

I don't know if I'd ever want her reading books like Twilight books, for example... I fear they'd provoke romantic desires that should be left alone till explored in marriage, that kind of thing. ;)

 

That said, I will probably be doing more and more pre-reading when she is older. But, for now, she's five, so I'd don't have much to censure.

 

In the meantime, I am teaching her right from wrong, generally, and in her own mind and heart, even as a five year old, she must begin to learn to apply what she's been taught to specific situations we haven't "covered."

 

If she reads about some characters in her early readers who play in the woods, for example, I don't have to read this with her and tell her not to play in the woods for her to know I don't approve of her playing in the woods in real life...

 

The same goes with a character she reads about who is rude or sassy to mom and dad. She knows not to talk to us that way. She may try it out once because she read about a character who did it, but that's all it's going to be, once and she will know not to do it again. ;)

 

Touchy subject for sure. I think we all have to do what our conscience requires from us and teach our kids to do the same. If they are reading something and their conscience condemns them for it, we need to teach them to stop reading. None of us should ever sin against our conscience. "Whatever is not done in good faith is sin" like the Bible says.

 

But, all said, I think I may be singing a different tune when my fifteen year old is reading a new book everyday... We will see. ;)

Edited June 23, 2010 by VBoulden

[TKDmom]

I use Sonlight. It doesn't line up with my religious beliefs. And I don't have time to pre-read all the books in 2 cores. So I go to the SL Secular Yahoo group and to the SL Forums to ask which books might be objectionable, either b/c the religious content or b/c the books have heavy or scary content.

[Rebecca]

This thread is helping me.

But- we are a family that is really careful about books-yet voracious readers- naturally this has caused some trouble.

And this year we have two Sonlight Cores and one WinterPromise-

and this is a lot of books- and not enought time to preread everything.

 

Thanks,

Rebecca

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

But, all said, I think I may be singing a different tune when my fifteen year old is reading a new book everyday... We will see. ;)

If you continue down your path, you'll still be singing sweetly as you trust your young one b/c you know her foundation is solid :)