Failing in Homeschooling

[kahlanne]

Our state doesn't require any testing or proof of the child's learning although the law states that they have to be taught at the level of public school. Even so, I decided to test my daughter using CAT and was pleasantly suprised. She is a struggling second grader but did better than I expected. I have always had DD redo any work that led up to a grade below a C on a test. This has slowed our overall progress but I feel she has a great grasp on the things completed. I really want her to have a strong foundation in primary levels and may relax as she ages.

 

I was wondering though, for the states that do require testing/proof, what happens when a student fails? I know in public school children fail tests weekly and fail grades yearly. Can a homeschooler fail a grade? What if their work shows progress albeit slow and therefore behind the age/grade level they should be?

 

In a discussion with a nonhomeschooler about this topic, he said considering how some of our public schools in our area are the worst in the nation, it would hypocritical for them to throw stones. Louisiana ranks 47 nationally.

[dragons in the flower bed]

In NYS....

 

A student's score shall be deemed adequate if:the student has a composite score above the thirty-third percentile on national norms; or the student's score reflects one academic year of growth as compared to a test administered during or subsequent to the prior school year. If a child's annual assessment fails to comply with the requirements of this section, the home instruction program shall be placed on probation for a period of up to two school years. The parent shall be required to submit a plan of remediation which addresses the deficiencies in the child's achievement, and seeks to remedy said deficiencies. The plan shall be reviewed by the school district. The school district may require the parents to make changes in the plan prior to acceptance. If after the end of any semester of the probationary period the child progresses to the level specified in the remediation plan, then the home instruction program shall be removed from probation. If the child does not attain at least seventy-five percent of the objectives specified in the remediation plan at the end of any given semester within the period of probation, or if after two years on probation one hundred percent of the objectives of the remediation plan have not been satisfied, the superintendent of schools shall provide the parents with notice and the board of education shall review the determination of noncompliance in accordance, except that consent of the parents to such review shall not be required. If during the period of probation the superintendent of schools has reasonable grounds to believe that the program of home instruction is in substantial noncompliance with these regulations the superintendent may require one or more home visits. Such home visit(s) shall be made only after three days' written notice. The purpose of such visit(s) shall be to ascertain areas of noncompliance with these regulations and to determine methods of remediating any such deficiencies. The home visit(s) shall be conducted by the superintendent or by the superintendent's designee. The superintendent may include members of a home instruction peer review panel in the home visit team.

 

Do you regret asking? Our regulations are wonderfully detailed, aren't they?

[manylilblessings]

It really varies by state. Not all states require standardized testing.

 

In CO, to be failing, a student has to fall below the 16th %ile. That's pretty tough to do. If a student has special needs or the parents doesn't like standardized tests, they can be evaluated by anyone who is credentialed in the state. That evaluation only needs to show that the student is making "progress" and that is very broadly defined.

 

As an aside, the reason CO chose 16%ile is because HSLDA atty. Chris Klicka argued that homeschoolers should be held to the same standard as PS students. That's their benchmark. :tongue_smilie:

 

If your student were to "fail", you would have to have them re-evaluated the next year and that evaluation would need to show no progress. It's really impossible if you're doing anything.

[Parrothead]

Some states will say the children have to go to public school. Some states will do nothing. Some states will put the homeschool on probation for year and the score has to be brought op or the kids will have to go to public school the following year.

 

In my state, as far as I know, the testing or portfolio review is simply to make sure something was actually done. Theoretically one could have an exceptionally bright child take one of the standardized tests and do okay on it without having taught anything for the year.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Parrothead

[dragons in the flower bed]

As an aside, the reason CO chose 16%ile is because HSLDA atty. Chris Klicka argued that homeschoolers should be held to the same standard as PS students. That's their benchmark.

 

Wow. I suppose I should be happy, because I don't think standards and test scores are a great way to establish a curriculum, but I know that's not what they were thinking when they set the benchmark so low. And they worry about US!

[Tenaj]

I don't know about all the other states. But here in Ohio, any score over the 25 percentile is good for the reporting purposes. We also have the option of having a teacher evaluation so if one of my kidlets would happen to not meet that benchmark, we would just have a teacher evaluation. So progress can be identified without the use of testing. As far as "failing" a grade - I'm not sure I would call it failing. I could, as a parent, choose to hold a child back but, at least in Ohio, we're not required to report a particular grade for each child. Right now, I'm considering having my seventh grader take an extra year before high school. He wouldn't even notice (his cousins the same age would be main problem) because we don't focus on grade level. We focus on individual progress.

 

In fact, my youngers all look a bit befuddled when some well-meaning person asks them what grade they are in - LOL. I always have to prompt them because they've always been homeschooled. I have a son who started K when he was a few months shy of five so technically he's in K this year (according to the law) but in my curriculcum choices he's really a first/second grader. My little guy with an August birthday I usually classify as a 2/3 grader. Those grade levels that schools apply really don't amount to much. We just keep plugging away.

[kahlanne]

I have always thought as long as my daughter is improving then we are doing something right. The issue is how fast she is improving. My daughter was a really slow learning for K and 1st but it gradually sped up in 2nd. I can see a massive improvement the last few months. She only missed one question on the Math portion of the CAT test. I know this wouldn't have been the case just 6 months ago. Her reading comprehension was better than expected but honestly, I expected her to miss at least 3/4 of the questions. Instead she got 2/3 correct. The worst for her was choosing the correct tense of a word. This has always been an issue with her since she doesn't use the correct tense when speaking many times. Even though we have corrected her and are working on it, I didn't realize just how bad it was until the test. I can see we need to make this a priority. The part of the test that is fill in the blank with the correct word, she aced. Chosing the same meaning of a given word, she only missed 3 and two of those were words that we would never use around here. One of which I had to ask dh the answer because I wasn't completely sure. LOL. Anyway, overall I am happy that she is improving and was wondering if this is the standard rather than an actual grade on testing. Btw, we haven't gotten the testing back yet but I checked over her answers.

[manylilblessings]

Well, I'm going to stand corrected (by myself) on two points. First, the benchmark is the 13th %ile. :tongue_smilie:

 

Second, upon reporting a score lower than the 13th %ile, the child would be placed in another school (could be private or parochial) until another test could be taken where the score improved.

 

Here's the text of the CO law:

 

(5) (a) (I) If test results submitted to the appropriate school district pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (f) of subsection (3) of this section show that a child participating in a nonpublic home-based educational program received a composite score on said test which was above the thirteenth percentile, such child shall continue to be exempt from the compulsory school attendance requirement of this article. If the child's composite score on said test is at or below the thirteenth percentile, the school district shall require the parents to place said child in a public or independent or parochial school until the next testing period; except that no action shall be taken until the child is given the opportunity to be retested using an alternate version of the same test or a different nationally standardized achievement test selected by the parent from a list of approved tests supplied by the state board

 

What I wonder is this; Is it even possible to score 13%ile or lower without purposely trying to fail? Statistically, it doesn't seem reasonable given that there are 4 answers to multiple choice questions, and you'd get a 25% by answering randomly. I do realize that the actual score and the percentile equivalent are different; I just don't know the correlation between the two.

[bearnpurple]

I know some of you have replied to my thread on achievement testing. I was able to talk to some other homeschool and public school parents last night at a meeting and was able to hear some interesting comments.

 

One parent has a portfolio reviewed because her dc are not "test-takers". They do not do well on these tests and therefore their scores are low even if they really do understand the subject.

 

One parent commented that their child (in public school) does weeks of practice tests before they do the Ohio Achievement test at the end of the year. Interesting.....

 

One parent agreed with me that sometimes children take longer for the "light bulb to turn on" before understanding a subject...therefore, the test can really not reflect well until later.

 

One parent said her child "takes tests very well" but isn't sure that she really comprehends everything beyond the testing.

 

So I guess there are so many pros and cons that it is hard to get a good grasp of what testing can and cannot show/help us.

 

I have heard from numerous sources both here and other homeschool blogs that alot of the newer standardized tests have been revised to help our kids do better (I believe the wording was "dumbed-down") because the US is still not up to par in education. Now, please do not get mad at me! I am just restating what I have heard/seen elsewhere.

 

BTW.....It is amazing how whenever I mention I homeschool that the person I am talking to says "I have heard that the score of homeschoolers are much higher than public school kids because of the one on one interaction" or "I think that is great because I wish I could do that....they learn too many things not relevant to them in public school!".

 

:)

[angela in ohio]

Michigan is like your state. There are regulations, but they don't require any reporting or testing. We recently moved from Ohio, which did require notification and one of three assessment options (testing, assessment by certified teacher, or alternate form agreed on by both parties.)

 

The regulations in Ohio dealing with remediation:

 

3301-34-05 Remediation

 

(A) If the annual academic assessment indicates that the child is not demonstrating reasonable proficiency, the superintendent shall notify the parent(s) in writing that an appropriate plan of remediation shall be submitted by the parent(s) to the superintendent within thirty days after receipt of such notification.

 

(B) During remediation, the parent(s) shall submit a quarterly report to the superintendent which includes:

 

 

(1) A written narrative evaluating the child’s progress, including an explanation if the child has made less than satisfactory progress in any subject; and

(2) An explanation if less than the intended curriculum planned for the quarter was covered.

 

© Remediation may be eliminated at any time during the year upon determination by the superintendent that the child is demonstrating reasonable proficiency. At the time of such determination, the superintendent shall notify the parent(s) in writing that remediation is no longer needed.

 

(D) If the child does not demonstrate reasonable progress during remediation, the superintendent may, subsequent to a due process hearing, under paragraph (D) of rule 3301-34-03 of the Administrative Code, if requested by the parent, revoke the child’s excuse from attendance and notify the parent(s) in writing to enroll the child within thirty calendar days in a school that is in compliance with Chapter 3301-35 of the Administrative Code. The superintendent shall also notify the parent(s) in writing that the parent(s) have the right to appeal the superintendent’s decision to the juvenile judge of the county, within ten calendar days, in accordance with section 3331.08 of the Revised code.

 

In reality, anyone with a child performing below the 25th percentile finds a certified teacher to sign off instead. I have never known or heard of a person who went through the above.

[m0mmaBuck]

I'm in WA and we are required to do a test or assessment annually from 2nd grade on but the results are only for the parents. If you were to put your child into public or private school, you may be asked for those records in order to place the child appropriately (particularly for high school). Otherwise the state doesn't even have access to the results.

[kahlanne]

Bearnpurple, I do know for a fact that our public school works for weeks in advance before taking the leap test. Not only that, they also don't time the test correctly. For instance, one portion of the CAT test was to take 20 min, reading comprehension I believe, and I knew DD would struggle. I told this to my other dd who is going into 9th grade, ps. She said with her leap, both times taken, she was told that time was up but if you were not finished you could do so while the others did something else.

[goldberry]

What I wonder is this; Is it even possible to score 13%ile or lower without purposely trying to fail? Statistically, it doesn't seem reasonable given that there are 4 answers to multiple choice questions, and you'd get a 25% by answering randomly. I do realize that the actual score and the percentile equivalent are different; I just don't know the correlation between the two.

 

 

My understanding is that it's not like making a 13% on the test, but out of all the kids tested, is your kid in the lowest 13th percentile of the kids who tested. That may be wrong, but that was just what I understood!

[Renee in NC]

What I wonder is this; Is it even possible to score 13%ile or lower without purposely trying to fail? Statistically, it doesn't seem reasonable given that there are 4 answers to multiple choice questions, and you'd get a 25% by answering randomly. I do realize that the actual score and the percentile equivalent are different; I just don't know the correlation between the two.

 

Actually, there is a 25% chance that you would get each individual question correct, but it is still possible to answer randomly and miss every question.

[angela in ohio]

What I wonder is this; Is it even possible to score 13%ile or lower without purposely trying to fail? Statistically, it doesn't seem reasonable given that there are 4 answers to multiple choice questions, and you'd get a 25% by answering randomly. I do realize that the actual score and the percentile equivalent are different; I just don't know the correlation between the two.

 

Like a pp said, that's not how it works. It's a percentile, not a percentage. A percentile tells you, if you lined up 100 average (statistically, not intelligence wise :D) children who had taken the test, who would you be ahead of? 99th percentil means you would be first in line, ahead of 99 kiddos. So 13th percentile means that you would be 14th from the end of the line.

[Ellie]

. Can a homeschooler fail a grade? What if their work shows progress albeit slow and therefore behind the age/grade level they should be?

 

IMHO, no. A homeschooled child cannot fail a grade. Most hsed do catch up with where they "should" be eventually, and that's ok; most of them are learning *different* things than their age-level peers, which doesn't always show up on standardized tests. It's the end result that matters.

[Kirch]

My understanding is that it's not like making a 13% on the test, but out of all the kids tested, is your kid in the lowest 13th percentile of the kids who tested. That may be wrong, but that was just what I understood!

 

:iagree: It's similar to grading on a curve rather than straight percentage points/letter grades. The bottom group is considered failing or inadequate (here, the bottom 13%) no matter what the actual scores on the test are. Conceivably, you could make a test on which even someone scoring in the 99th percentile would only get half of the questions correct. It just means that 99% of the test-takers got even fewer correct.

 

On the flip side, you could have a test where everyone actually does very well, but if you happen to be in the bottom of the pack, you're still going to have a low percentile score even if you actually answered 95% of the questions correctly.

 

So, there will ALWAYS be people scoring in the 13th (or lower) percentile, with or without people *trying* to fail.