Math suggestions for a student who HATES math

[DaisyMay]

My dd is 11 and going into 6th grade. She is a bright, dilligent, self-motivated, hard-working student. She's a pleasure to teach in all ways except one... MATH. She HATES math! She cries every day and says how dumb she is. It's so hard for her. The thing is, she knows her facts. We do flashcards and calculadders daily and she's great with that. It's all the rest that she doesn't get.

 

We are currently using CLE 5 and are working slowly through book 507. I've had her do the Key To Fractions & Decimals and she's currently working through Percents. We previously used BJU math with the dvd's, but that totally confused her. I've printed off one of Math Mammoth's supplemental books, but that confuses her... she says there's not enough instruction in it. I sit with her daily to do math, but I'm so bad at it, it's a struggle to clearly help her. I've never understood math and really want her to get it.

 

I'm considering Saxon or TT. She needs continual review. I need the support of a teaching cd. I've had her watch the samples for TT, DIVE, & Saxon Teacher. All three had her in tears. She did say that the TT would be the lesser of the evils :001_huh:.

 

I'm just at my wit's end with her and math. We are breaking for the summer, but I need to get something for the fall. I hope the summer will clear her head a little.

 

Any advise about what to use?

 

Thanks in advance!

Gayle

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

What color supplemental book did you order from Math Mammoth? The Gold and Green Series don't have any instructions and would be confusing. We weren't tear free until we switched to MUS. I haven't used TT but my kids HATED Saxon.

[Harriet Vane]

Dd and I are both math-phobes. We LOVE MUS. I have also heard good things about TT. I would not recommend Saxon for someone who struggles with math.

[DaisyMay]

We used the Blue from MM. I got Division 2 to help reinforce her long division.

 

We used MUS Alpha, Beta, & part of Gamma. Those were good, but not enough review. She really started to struggle in the second half of Gamma. We started using Bob Jones DVD's at that point and switched to their math since we had the dvds. We struggled through BJU with the math dvds and me re-teaching each day. She could get the concepts after much work, but then would forget them during the next chapter. Just not enough review.

 

Gayle

[iammommy]

My son hated math just like your daughter. We started using TT and now he "tolerates" it. He does like the actual program, but gets frustrated in he doesn't get something right away or gets a wrong answer. I would absolutely give TT a try. Or, another thought, if she wants just the basics, with decent explanations, and pretty gentle, check out Oak Meadow Lath.

 

Hope this helps. I feel your pain!

 

Nan

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Did you do all of the Systematic Review pages? Did she like MUS? If MUS helps her understand the best maybe adding something to it for additional review? Sorry, I wish I could help more :(

[Chris in VA]

In my experience, children hate what makes them feel incompetent. Honestly, Saxon Math is so incremental and so brilliantly put together that many children who hate math do well with it, because it is "little by little" and builds skills very slowly, while constantly reviewing.

I am finding that I am understanding math much better, now that I am teaching my daughter.

I would not teach math by dvd, however, if your dd hates it and feels behind. If you need the support of the dvd to understand it yourself, watch it yourself, then explain it to your dd. I have no idea what the Saxon dvds are like, but I do know that even I understand the books (have done 6/5 and am in 7/6 with dd now).

Have her take the Saxon placement test to see where she places. It will seem repetitious and easy in the beginning, but it builds, believe me. Don't skip ANYTHING, and watch her competency grow!

 

Yeah, I'm a Saxon lover. Ymmv. :D

[TracyR]

My 2nd daughter has struggled terribly with math and has been showing a HUGE improvement with Saxon math. I don't agree witht he statement that children who struggle shouldn't use Saxon math at all.

 

Would it be possible for you to watch the DVD/CD? Then teach it to her in your own words? I have done that,many, many times. It makes having the CD redundant to have for my kids but it does help me so that's a plus. Also with Saxon you would need to have her take the placement tests to find out exactly where she is. What level were you looking at? If she is struggling then she is NOT ready for that level. Plain and simple.

I really like this article Art Reed wrote in his blog about children who struggle with math : http://homeschoolwithsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2010.php#0410

Something is missing in her foundation that's why she is struggling. I've had to put my oldest back in 6/5 because even though I felt she was ready for Algebra 1/2 I found after her taking the placement test there were holes in her knowledge. Of course she is getting it now and working through it faster. But I am finding where her lack of understanding is as well ,by doing it that way.

 

Please be sure to have her take the placement test, you do not go by grade level. And by the sounds of it she is not using the right level math in CLE either if she is struggling. Did you have her take the CLE placement test? Do not go by grade levels.

 

Also the CD's may not be her thing. I know I've seen the samples and feel kind of like, ugh, after watching them. I'd much rather watch a video and see a live person at the other end. I encourage you to look at the Teaching Tapes . You can both take a look at the video. Of course forewarn your daughter that she isn't going to understand what the teacher is teaching because she isn't in that level of math that the sample video shows ( they only show one sample, not sure what level it is). But you want to know if she prefers that format over the CD's.

 

If she isn't interested in any of that it sounds more like attitude then anything else. My 12 yr old even at 11 has become very hard to please. She learns math quickly but I have tried lots of programs with her only to hear exactly what your daughter has said. In the end I had to pick something. I've used many programs with her. She liked BJU for K, 1,,2,3rd grade, then we went with a cyber that used Calvert math(belch) , then went back to BJU math for 6th only to hear that she didn't like it anymore. Then used K12 math ( again belch). But she is going to private school this year that uses Saxon math so Saxon math it was going to be whether she liked it or not. Saxon isn't her favorite but let me tell you in the past few weeks I've been using it with her now I have seen MUCH improvement as well as with my 'struggling' 2nd daughter.

 

It sounds like she needs a spiral program. BJU math is mastery and it did not go over well here either,. Not enough review. Saxon reviews past concepts in each lesson. I don't believe TT is spiral. I could be wrong but I've never seen anyone say that it is.

 

If its the fact that she likes you to teach it I would then watch the CD's or Tapes and then reteach what you've watched to her. You CAN do it. I'm most sure you can summerize it for her so that she can understand. Trust me I am not a math person by any means. There are many times I have to ask my hubby for help ( in 6/5,yep). But for the most part the lessons in the book are simple to go over. Of course its meant for the student to read. But I read it myself, go through the steps, sometimes have to summarize what it is they are saying if its not understood, and then have them practice before they go at it.

 

I've heard and read many conflicting things about TT. It might work for your daughter but if you live in a test taking state I would work a grade level above. The consensus by many has been its a year 'behind' most math curriculum ( I hate to use the word behind, but if you live in a state that requires standardized testing , it does make a big difference.) It works for some and not for others like any other curriculum.

 

I guess in the end it just depends on what your goals are for her.

Edited June 11, 2010 by TracyR

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

In my experience, children hate what makes them feel incompetent. Honestly, Saxon Math is so incremental and so brilliantly put together that many children who hate math do well with it, because it is "little by little" and builds skills very slowly, while constantly reviewing.

I am finding that I am understanding math much better, now that I am teaching my daughter.

I would not teach math by dvd, however, if your dd hates it and feels behind. If you need the support of the dvd to understand it yourself, watch it yourself, then explain it to your dd. I have no idea what the Saxon dvds are like, but I do know that even I understand the books (have done 6/5 and am in 7/6 with dd now).

Have her take the Saxon placement test to see where she places. It will seem repetitious and easy in the beginning, but it builds, believe me. Don't skip ANYTHING, and watch her competency grow!

 

Yeah, I'm a Saxon lover. Ymmv. :D

Our experience was just the opposite. It never stayed on one concept long enough for my ds to learn anything and he was EXTREMELY frustrated.

 

ETA that we even used the DIVE CD.

[Aludlam]

I would look into MUS. It hasn't been "perfect" for us (we are also doing Horizons). But it was the "lesser evil" for us.

 

Angela

[TracyR]

I also encourage you to read Art Reed's book on Saxon math and how it has helped many types of math students from strugglers, to average to , National Merit Scholars.

[homemama]

MUS was the answer for us :001_smile: Ds was in tears until we got it!

 

homemama

[anotherblessingus]

Try Teaching Textbooks, I have a daughter who is currently in CLP and she is begging for Teaching Textbooks next year. My three other homeschoolers really like it, and their math scores are great.

[DaisyMay]

I really appreciate all the responses so far. They've been very helpful.

 

To answer some of the points:

 

With MUS we did all the systematic reviews, it just didn't seem to be quite enough. Maybe if I did another workbook alongside it, it would work. I hate to overload her with two full programs, though.

 

We did the placement test for CLE and she tested into the 500 series. She actually tests really well. Her Iowa scores this year in math were 99th percentile for the math total. (She scored 98th in concepts & estimation, 99th in problem solving & data interpretation, and 95th in computation).

 

I will definitely have her do a placement test no matter what we go with. I really want her to succeed wherever she needs to be. I was kind of thinking she'd place in Saxon 65 or TT 6 or 7. It doesn't matter to me what level she tests in to, as long as she is understanding the work.

 

I like the idea of watching the cd and then teaching her from that. I do sit with her during math, and am willing to do whatever is needed to help her learn.

 

Thanks so much for all the help so far. Any other thoughts?

 

Thanks!

Gayle

[TengoFive]

My oldest is math-phobic as well and hates math. We've tried a lot of different options, but we've had the best luck with MUS, Life of Fred and the Danica McKellar books. I just wish the latter had better titles. I can't stand them, but my dd has been doing math voluntarily since I got the first for her from the library. She's reading through the book and then applying it to her MUS lesson. I'm going to buy the whole series for her.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://www.audiblox2000.com/math_problems.htm

 

"What causes math problems?" Mathematics is a subject that consists of three aspects:

Foundational skills: Research has shown that visual perception, visual memory, and logical thinking (which makes problem solving possible) are the most important foundational skills of math.

 

After struggling with program after program I tested DDs visual perception skills. Bingo. You might look at some descriptions of visual perception disorder and dyscalculia. Maybe we need something other than yet another math program. Edited June 12, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I would go with LoF and key to if she knows her facts well. :D That would get her up to pre-algebra in the next 2 or so years. LoF is fun. My dd LOVES LoF and she is 12 going into 7th and has the same feelings on math your dd does. We also do BJU math and will be going to chalkdust for pre-algebra.

[cocoabean]

If TT samples had her in tears, you'd probably be wasting A LOT of money if you went ahead and purchased it anyway. I would definitely avoid purchasing anything that put her in tears just by samples.

 

From the situation you described, your dd needs a math that has good explanations, and no-frills. I think Developmental Math might be a candidate for you. If you search CBD for Developmental Math, I believe there is a link to the DM placement test (if not, you can google Developmental Math Placement test). Having her take that placement test will let you know where to place her and whether she will be able to adapt to the way it teaches math.

 

Other than DM math, ACE might be another possibility for her. That site is aceministries.com.

 

HTH!

[kidsnbooks8]

Saxon has worked for our wide range of learners. Some go more quickly than others and some go slower. We just take it at the pace of the individual even if we need to spread it out for a longer time. My son is doing fine moving along at the "normal pace"(he is on grade level) yet for my daughter we will be finishing 7/6 when we start back in the fall. We will be doing some LOF this summer and she is going to do the Pet Shop Math from SCM also. This should help keep her skills fresh, but also be fun.

 

This is for the 12 and 15 year olds.

 

ETA: This is our first year using the Teacher CD's. We are using them for the Algebra, because I am not able to help them. We have the DIVE CD's but they don't always use them.

Edited June 12, 2010 by kidsnbooks8

[Guest]

I have a suggestion of a different sort. Instead of spending money on one more curriculum in the search to find what fits, could you maybe find a tutor -- for a year, for a semester, or even over the summer? See if having someone else work with her might help, someone who knows math and knows how to work with kids who are math haters or somehow blocked. If your daughter's test scores are that high, perhaps it is just a matter of both of you getting some distance from the stress, by having someone else step in temporarily until you regain your equilibrium. Or it could be that having someone approach or explain the underlying concepts in a different way from the book might be helpful. It sounds as though she's getting lots and lots of practice at computation (and doing quite well with it under test situations); I'd ask whoever works with her to focus on concepts.

[Carol in Cal.]

Saxon has pretty much gotten her over that. Now she tolerates math. She says that she actually enjoys the math that she can do quickly. So now, as an 8th grader, she feels that she would enjoy, say, 2nd grade math, because it's so easy.

 

My goal is to get her through the Saxon Algebra 1 book by the middle of August. And I WILL.

 

We use DIVE and I also work with her on the problems she doesn't get correct. I also stop her every so often and review what she has done recently, and we do oral review in the car a few times a week.