Standardized testing and DUKE TIP questions

[tabmtbc]

My dd is slated to finish the Spectrum 6th grade test prep book in probably 2-3 days. Testing is not required by state statute here, but I wanted to do it mainly to get her into DUKE TIP next year (she is a rising 7th grader, finishing 6th grade now.)

 

I went to http://www.familylearning.org and it says that the CAT will not be available to ship until June 28 (an expected date.) I only need one test to administer at home. Is there somewhere else I can get it quicker? I'm in AL if that helps.

 

I thought about ordering the STANFORD (SAT-10) 10 but the ordering link from Bob Jones is giving out 404 errors tonight when I press it. Can I give the SAT at home the way you do the CAT and send it back for grading? Will the Spectrum 6th grade book be sufficient prep for that?

 

I looked at Seton's website and they only offer the CAT-E. Is that the same thing as the CAT? Because Duke TIP doesn't recognize the CAT-E.

 

Pearson Educational Assessments Online offers the Stanford 10 online. Is that the same thing as the SAT (not the college SAT, the grade school one)? I looked at this page http://www.pearsonassessments.com/HA...C&Mode=summary and could not decide what I should get, if anything, because they weren't listed by grade level, only by Primary A and Intermediate 1 and so forth. DUKE TIP recognizes the SAT battery but doesn't specify whether it's the SAT-9 or the SAT-10, etc.

And I also noticed that Pearson offers the Stanford 10 written or online. Details for the online option here:

http://education.pearsonassessments....AI_Achievement

Results, it says, are back in 2-3 days. Has anyone ever done this?

 

I only have one child to test and I wanted to do it myself at home sometime in the next couple of weeks.

 

When the group standardized tests were offered in my area, we were SO SO SO out of money, so I didn't pursue it then. We had the dishwasher, washer, vacuum, 2 sewing machines, the car, and my dd's glasses all break and there was just no money left for testing.

 

DUKE TIP says they accept the PASS test, among others (there is a long list on their website.) Anyone taken the PASS through Hewitt?

http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/test/tplace.asp

 

That seems like a good option, but I'm a bit confused by the PLACEMENT TEST stuff. Other standardized tests just say, "OK you're in grade 6, take the grade 6 test." DUKE TIP specifies that the scores must be at the 95th percentile or above on a grade level standardized test to be accepted for the program. I'm not sure where the PASS fits in that kind of picture, though DUKE TIP says they accept it.

 

There's a list of what tests DUKE TIP accepts at this website:

http://www.tip.duke.edu/talent_searc..._7/enroll.html

 

TIA for any help. I'm lost in the standardized testing forest.

I didn't order the test sooner because we were all sick and were dealing with the taxes and so forth. I had assumed to just order the CAT from family learning but in looking for a test that is accessible in the immediate future, I'm striking out.

 

Any help appreciated. I'd like to get this done BEFORE June 15, as that is when my umbrella school recognizes the current school year to be over.

[KAR120C]

I think they'll accept scores from 5th or 6th grade... so if you did anything last year that would work. Also, I believe there's a parent nomination option. You'd have to email them to get the details, but if you have scores from earlier tests or tests that aren't on their list, that might be reason enough to go with the parent nomination rather than take the test just for TIP.

[Elisa]

My daughter was in TIP a couple of yeas ago. The old memory's not so good, but I don't remember having to send them proof of a qualifying score.

[Matryoshka]

Just curious... what does qualifying for the Duke TIP program get you? One of my dds scored over 95th percentile on her Stanford composite last year - she took it this year too but the scores aren't back yet. She's a rising 7th grader.

 

Just curious if her scores stay high enough this year if it's something I should bother pursuing...

[Crimson Wife]

The CAT-E is a relatively easy test and even a perfect score won't be in the 95th percentile. I forget the exact percentile as I've got the letter filed away but I think it was somewhere around 88th-90th. That's one of the reasons why we re-tested with the ITBS.

 

Christian Liberty Press offers the 1970 edition CAT and my understanding is that it can be done online with results available immediately afterward. I have no personal experience with this but it's relatively inexpensive ($30).

[8filltheheart]

The CAT-E is a relatively easy test and even a perfect score won't be in the 95th percentile. I forget the exact percentile as I've got the letter filed away but I think it was somewhere around 88th-90th. That's one of the reasons why we re-tested with the ITBS.

 

Christian Liberty Press offers the 1970 edition CAT and my understanding is that it can be done online with results available immediately afterward. I have no personal experience with this but it's relatively inexpensive ($30).

 

That's not quite accurate b/c 3 of my kids did score in the 97-99% in total score on the CAT-E last yr. Only the sub-category scores are sometimes something like 88% with 100% correct. Personally, though, I do not believe the CAT-E is in any way a reliable test. We use it to simply satisfy state law.

 

To the OP, just do parental nomination w/o test scores. It is really a rather simple process.

 

 

matroyshka.....I wondered about why pay so much for classes as well. However, I recently heard from my ds that Stanford accepts the JHU CTY courses for credit. (I need to verify this myself though) So, in some instances, the cost/benefit may be worthwhile at the higher levels. CTY does offer multivariable calculus and C programming. Those are a couple of the courses that I have stored in my memory as possibilities later on.

[Matryoshka]

matroyshka.....I wondered about why pay so much for classes as well. However, I recently heard from my ds that Stanford accepts the JHU CTY courses for credit. (I need to verify this myself though) So, in some instances, the cost/benefit may be worthwhile at the higher levels. CTY does offer multivariable calculus and C programming. Those are a couple of the courses that I have stored in my memory as possibilities later on.

 

Heh... I was actually looking for even more basic information... I had somehow thought the bar was even higher for these programs, and haven't really had them on my radar all that much...

 

I was a grade ahead in school (and so also took tests a year earlier than my age), and always scored 98-99th percentile, and my mom always drilled into my head that I was smart, but most definitely "not gifted". There were no gifted programs available in my school anyway (MA has $0 allocated for gifted education), and I don't think these kind of distance programs were available then. So when my dd scored 95th-something percentile on a test at her grade level, I thought that was nice but didn't even think to consider she'd qualify for anything. I thought you had to take the ACT or SAT (the high school test) years early and get some really high score, not just a regular test at grade level. Reading this thread made me realize I was mistaken...

 

Anyhoo... so now I'm thinking, if she does qualify, what does that mean? Is it just a ticket to expensive distance classes, or is there something else to it? What kinds of things do they offer to 7th graders?

[Truscifi]

Make sure you verify with Stanford, not with CTY. I took Duke TIP classes which the TIP program assured my parents would be good for college credit. It turned out they were accepted at some schools, but not that many, and not the one I went to. Of course, in my opinion it was totally worth it anyway, the classes were great, but my parents probably had a different opinion.

[2cents]

Just curious... what does qualifying for the Duke TIP program get you? One of my dds scored over 95th percentile on her Stanford composite last year - she took it this year too but the scores aren't back yet. She's a rising 7th grader.

 

Just curious if her scores stay high enough this year if it's something I should bother pursuing...

 

You read my mind! My daughters qualify with their SAT scores and I scoured the site to try to figure out why I should pay the registration fee. I've yet to figure out how it will help them. My friend has a child in school and she said the school system gets funds somehow so I can see how it may benefit them if that is true. For us? A mystery. I do have the girls taking the TIP classes though. They are great! :)

[Matryoshka]

You read my mind! My daughters qualify with their SAT scores and I scoured the site to try to figure out why I should pay the registration fee. I've yet to figure out how it will help them. My friend has a child in school and she said the school system gets funds somehow so I can see how it may benefit them if that is true. For us? A mystery. I do have the girls taking the TIP classes though. They are great! :)

 

Okay... so there's a registration fee... but your dds are taking classes with them without having to pay it? What's the registration fee for, then? Or am I misunderstanding your post...? :)

 

Which classes are your dds taking?

[2cents]

Okay... so there's a registration fee... but your dds are taking classes with them without having to pay it? What's the registration fee for, then? Or am I misunderstanding your post...? :)

 

Which classes are your dds taking?

 

You can take classes as an independent student. You still have to pay for the class (not a lot at all compared to their full enrollment options). We use TIP for enrichment courses and they are awesome! You can see them at:

http://www.tip.duke.edu/independent_learning/index.html

 

We've taken the mythology and the King Author studies. We're going to do the forensics this fall. Can't wait!

Edited May 21, 2010 by 2cents

[Elisa]

I think we've been talking about two different scores here.

 

In order to participate, Duke asks for

 

• 95% or higher on a grade-level standardized achievement test, aptitude test, mental-ability test, approved state criterion-referenced test, or
  
• 125 or above on an IQ test.
  

If your child meets that requirement you enroll through Duke and pay $35. Then they take the Explore (5th graders) or SAT (7th graders). There is an additional fee for the test.

 

Depending on how well they do on the Explore or the SAT they can qualify to take classes through Duke TIP. My daughter did well on the English portion of SAT and qualified to take language and history classes. Her math SAT score did not qualify her to take math and science classes.

 

Once you have the SAT scores, you're free to take classes through Duke, CTY, Northwestern as long as your scores meet their minimum requirements.

[Matryoshka]

Once you have the SAT scores, you're free to take classes through Duke, CTY, Northwestern as long as your scores meet their minimum requirements.

 

This confuses me even more... if you can take classes as an independent learner any old time, as 2cent's dds are doing, why go through all this hoop-jumping?? This is the part I'm not getting...

[tabmtbc]

I think we've been talking about two different scores here.

 

In order to participate, Duke asks for

 

• 95% or higher on a grade-level standardized achievement test, aptitude test, mental-ability test, approved state criterion-referenced test, or
  
• 125 or above on an IQ test.
  

If your child meets that requirement you enroll through Duke and pay $35. Then they take the Explore (5th graders) or SAT (7th graders). There is an additional fee for the test.

 

Depending on how well they do on the Explore or the SAT they can qualify to take classes through Duke TIP. My daughter did well on the English portion of SAT and qualified to take language and history classes. Her math SAT score did not qualify her to take math and science classes.

 

Once you have the SAT scores, you're free to take classes through Duke, CTY, Northwestern as long as your scores meet their minimum requirements.

Which one of the listed tests at http://www.tip.duke.edu/talent_searches/grade_7/enroll.html

is an IQ test? Wonder if I could use the IQ test or mental ability test option faster than the standardized test option. Where is a reputable place to get IQ or mental ability tests that will be accepted?

 

And for anyone who was asking up thread, no she's never done a standardized test before so wouldn't have a score from grade 5. Didn't know Duke TIP and other such programs existed at the time and testing is not required by state statute so I didn't see the point of doing testing when it wasn't required.

[Elisa]

You have to have SAT scores to take the online classes through Duke and to do the summer camps. When you take the SATs through Duke in 7th grade you're part of Duke TIP.

 

There's lots more info here: http://www.tip.duke.edu

[HeidiKC]

I enrolled my 4th grade son in Duke TIP this year and they didn't ask for any proof of test scores. I think I just clicked on the option that said he scored over 125 on an IQ test.

 

I know they can take a test (I think it's EXPLORE) in 5th and 6th grade. Just the other night my friend was telling me about her daughter who took the ACT through DUKE TIP in 7th grade (I think she got a 24 composite score and a 31 on the verbal or something related to English). Anyway, not only was she eligible for the DUKE classes - they PAID FOR IT ALL, including airfare, room and board for 3 weeks and the classes. She went the summer after 7th grade and the summer after 8th grade. Not sure if she went a 3rd summer. Her mom said she just loved it and now she's a junior and still keeps in touch with friends from the camp/course.

 

SO! I am all over this and will definitely keep my son in the program, mainly for that possible opportunity rather than any online classes or anything. Sounds awesome! I don't really get what the point of the program is. I assumed it was a recruiting tool for Duke, but she doesn't think it is because Duke has sent her daughter info about other programs and I think also other colleges. She thought maybe it was a group of colleges and it's just headed up by Duke.???

[Matryoshka]

Just the other night my friend was telling me about her daughter who took the ACT through DUKE TIP in 7th grade (I think she got a 24 composite score and a 31 on the verbal or something related to English). Anyway, not only was she eligible for the DUKE classes - they PAID FOR IT ALL, including airfare, room and board for 3 weeks and the classes.

 

Now that sounds interesting... especially the "paid for it all". :D

 

Well, I'm thinking I should wait to see how her Stanford scores come back this year before pondering it further - and if they do come back good enough, worrying about how it will go over if her twin's don't again (who wasn't that far back, but a bit below 95)

[abbeyej]

My daughter was in TIP a couple of yeas ago. The old memory's not so good, but I don't remember having to send them proof of a qualifying score.

 

I *hope* you weren't suggesting that one invent a qualifying score... They do *require* certain scores on certain tests (there's a list available on the website), though I believe it's true that they don't ask you to send in copies.

[Crimson Wife]

This confuses me even more... if you can take classes as an independent learner any old time, as 2cent's dds are doing, why go through all this hoop-jumping?? This is the part I'm not getting...

 

Some families want to build up a transcript for high school and/or college admissions purposes.

[8filltheheart]

I *hope* you weren't suggesting that one invent a qualifying score... They do *require* certain scores on certain tests (there's a list available on the website), though I believe it's true that they don't ask you to send in copies.

 

I think you are slightly confused about the suggestion. In order to qualify for the 7th grade testing, students are supposed to be in the top 5% of students. However, you can parental nominate w/absolutely no scores if you believe your child is qualified. All that does is allow them to be enrolled to receive the ACT/SAT testing packet that allows younger kids to take those tests and have their scores submitted to whatever program their state is under (for example TIP is for NC and CTY is for VA)

 

They still have to actually take the ACT or SAT to qualify.

 

To the OP......you are making it more complicated than it needs to be. All these scores do are "pre-qualify" you for the "qualifying" test. If you complete the parental nomination form, they will mail you a packet on how you register for the ACT or SAT and a form that allows them to take the test without photo ID. It is those scores that qualify them.

 

 

HTH

[abbeyej]

... However, you can parental nominate w/absolutely no scores if you believe your child is qualified. ...

 

I'm not seeing that anywhere on the site. Except for the "Option" possibility for kids whose scores (and there's a list of about 70 qualifying tests) are too low to qualify. I suppose one could use that to sign up without a test score.

[8filltheheart]

I'm not seeing that anywhere on the site. Except for the "Option" possibility for kids whose scores (and there's a list of about 70 qualifying tests) are too low to qualify. I suppose one could use that to sign up without a test score.

 

http://www.tip.duke.edu/homeschool/7GTSParentNominationForm.pdf

 

This is how I signed my ds up through JHU for their CTY talent search. He had never taken any standardized test other than the CAT survey from Seton. However, I knew he had to be in the top 5 % since there are not that many kids that advanced in math.

 

FWIW.....his ACT scores did more than qualify him for CTY.

[KAR120C]

http://www.tip.duke.edu/homeschool/7GTSParentNominationForm.pdf

 

This is how I signed my ds up through JHU for their CTY talent search. He had never taken any standardized test other than the CAT survey from Seton. However, I knew he had to be in the top 5 % since there are not that many kids that advanced in math.

I emailed them because DS hadn't taken any of the listed tests since he was six... but he had taken the Explore (through CTD, not Duke), and the ACT and SAT already, none of which are on their list.

 

I think in the OP's case, because they've never tested, I would go ahead and do a standardized test this year. The deadline isn't until October, which should be plenty of time. But I wouldn't hesitate to use the parental nomination option when you have scores from other tests.

 

And for the OP (since we've kind of gotten off track from her question...) I'd go with whatever test is in the budget and quicker to get. Most IQ tests are going to be in the more expensive and possibly much slower to get category -- those are generally administered by professional psychologists. The one exception that comes to mind is the CogAT, which I think you can get yourself (but now that I've said that I can't remember where...) The CAT/5 is probably the quickest and cheapest, and if Family Learning can't get it to you before the end of June, there are other vendors... Bayside School Services is one, Thurbers, Piedmont Education Service... if you Google I'm sure there are others too.

[Crimson Wife]

Most IQ tests are going to be in the more expensive and possibly much slower to get category -- those are generally administered by professional psychologists. The one exception that comes to mind is the CogAT, which I think you can get yourself (but now that I've said that I can't remember where...)

 

You can administer the CogAt at home (BJU sells it) but it's not technically considered an IQ test because it's designed for group administration.

[LibraryLover]

It gets one excessive amounts of advertz to their summer 'gifted' (which may or may not be) programs. Period. BTDT. Same with a host of schools. Not saying the summer programs can't be good (some are, many are awful), but they don't get one into Johns Hopkins, Duke, etc etc.

 

Meaning, don't stress, and don't just whip out the credit card.

 

 

 

Just curious... what does qualifying for the Duke TIP program get you? One of my dds scored over 95th percentile on her Stanford composite last year - she took it this year too but the scores aren't back yet. She's a rising 7th grader.

 

Just curious if her scores stay high enough this year if it's something I should bother pursuing...

Edited May 24, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Crimson Wife]

It gets one excessive amounts of advertz to their summer 'gifted' (which may or may not be) programs. Period. BTDT. Same with a host of schools. Not saying the summer programs can't be good (some are, many are awful), but they don't get one into Johns Hopkins, Duke, etc etc.

 

Meaning, don't stress, and don't just whip out the credit card.

 

Except that the MIT admissions page for homeschoolers specifically recommends taking classes through CTY, EPGY, etc. I've also seen listings for those type of courses on applications to selective high schools (yes, my oldest is only 7 1/2 but I've also got a very "type A" DH whose worries about high school & college admissions I need to placate ;))