Horizons and Bob Jones Math

[Homeschooling6]

I think I have narrowed it down with what math programs I would like to use with my K, 2nd & 3rd grade dc next school year.

Horizons or Bob Jones Math. Can anyone tell me about these two? Compare them? What are the weaknesses and strengths? Even if one hasn't used both I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, that BJ is more mastery and Horizon is more spiral, they are both colorful and Horizon uses lots of manipulative.

 

I don't consider one better than then the other but would like to know the differences and such.

 

Appreciate your input.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Homeschooling6

[Melissa in CA]

Hi Linda,

 

I can't compare them because I have not used Horizon's, but I believe your assumption is correct in that BJU is more mastery and Horizon, spiral. One thing I did want to add is that BJU uses a lot of manipulatives too. They teach the why with manips before the how. So please be sure to get the TE as well as the student manipulatives packet if you decide to go with BJU. I would not use BJU without them. Yes, you can come up with your own manipulatives, but why make it harder on yourself. The manips are made specifically for the BJU math and the TE will tell you when to use each, as well as how to teach with them.

 

Best wishes on making your final decision. I think they are both good choices. :D

 

ETA: You could probably get by with just purchasing one set of Manipulatives for your older two. I would go with the 3rd grade set. I know that after using several years of BJU math I was oftentimes using the previous years manips for a variety of things as they were the same as what was included in the current year. I used some of the current years manips because they had higher numbers, etc. Clear as mud? Hard to explain. If you have the funds, get both to be on the safe side.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Melissa in CA

[momtotkbb]

BJU is a solid program - has review built in, but not within every lesson like Horizon - some see BJU as "behind" or "slow", but in the end both programs are designed to have the student in Pre-Alg by 7th grade (BJU does offer a Fundamentals of Math for 7th if the dc needs more review)--BJU is more a slow and steady wins the race type. Each lesson in BJU has a story theme --has suggestions for teachers to teach the concept --much more complete (for some overwhelming TG)--uses manipulatives.

 

Horizons is good for the dc that needs daily review of concepts --but can become tedious for dc who don't like or need the review (of course you can always cut out some problems). Horizon's TG aren't as complete in my opinion--Beginning in, I think 4th grade, everything is pretty much written to the student in the student book. Horizon's is more like CLE (which I think you've been using) but not as many problems, more color, maybe even a little faster pace.

 

Both are great programs but very different programs --I've used both depending upon the dc. The one thing we haven't liked about BJU for one dc is that beginning w/ 5th grade the problems must be copied from the book. We like the hs level of BJU --it's a pretty academic program --but the pages are cluttered which bother some kids. The hs levels seems to progress much more quickly than the elementary grades --they seem to take the approach of building a really good foundation and then the dc can move more rapidly.

[monalisa]

I have used BJU 1st grade this year with my dd. It is a mastery program but does have good review built in (both in the TM, the daily lesson, and in the Reviews books for the lower grades). I've looked at Horizons many times because it has gotten good presss (I really considered using it), but dislike how it jumps all over in each lesson because it is a spiral program. Also, it seems like it has ALOT more practice problems per lesson. Different kids like different approaches, however. The BJU TM is essential & very good; it is almost scripted and formatted very well with color so you can follow it easily. I believe we'll continue with BJU and would recommend it.

 

BJU is very manipulative driven. Not sure about Horizons. THe lessons are written to be taught with manipulatives. At times, this has even been distracting for my dd. The homeschool kit comes with all the manipulatives you need (except unifix cubes, but you could substitute something else) in card stock that you punch out.

[*Amber*]

:lurk5:

[Homeschooling6]

Does Horizons use workbooks through 6th grade?

[MissKNG]

I like Horizons. We started it recently and I like it. We are using it for a little bit longer until we start Singapore then will use Horizons as a supplement. I think it's a solid math program (from what I've seen) and my big girl likes the presentation. I don't use the teacher's guide so I can't comment on that. I choose it because it was considered "advanced" and I think the content is advanced especially in the second of the two workbooks. As for manipulatives, you can certainly go crazy with using those. We don't use any but it's easy to incorporate them. I think Sonlight sells a manipulative package on their site for Horizons.

 

The spiral approach gives my big girl some variety in her lessons, which she likes. But the drill and repetition are way too much. We've skipped lessons all together because of the repetition.

 

Here is Cathy Duffy's review of Horizons:

 

http://www.cathyduffyreviews.com/math/horizons-math.htm

 

All in all, I like it and just received the 2nd grade workbooks in the mail today!

 

ETA: Alpha Omega also has a 20% off sale going on right now.

Edited April 13, 2010 by MissKNG

[MissKNG]

Does Horizons use workbooks through 6th grade?

 

Yes.

[Homeschooling6]

Thank you, ladies!

Here is another question. I don't mind sitting and teaching my dc but am wondering are both of these teacher intensive past the 4th grade? Not that I want to hand my dc a workbook and walk away but I do want them to be able to read the instructions and apply them, with me near by to help if needed.

Thanks!

[mom31257]

I have experience with my ds in Horizons for K & 1st and BJU for 2nd. I switched from Horizons because it was too much constant review for my ds. He would get really frustrated with the same problems on the page more than once.

 

I knew that BJU was mastery, so I thought that would work better for him. As far as day to day lessons, it was better, but I found it did not have enough review for him. I did not purchase the extra Review book because I thought that was review of the current lesson for kids needing extra practice in those. Most of the actual previous material review was in the TE and was oral or on the board. I felt that he needed more visual practice type review, so I switched him to CLE right after Christmas. It has been much better since then.

 

I also have experience with BJU 6th and 7th math. I used those with my dd during 5th and 6th. The teacher's manual in 6th had quite a bit of info for the teacher teaching the class. The 7th grade had quite a bit less. Looking back, I wish we had used something else. She probably needed a spiral approach as well. I still have to remind her on some processes. We have one more year before Algebra, so I hope to cement all this stuff before then.

 

I think it will come down to how much review your kids need.

 

I hope this helps!

[Melissa in CA]

Thank you, ladies!

Here is another question. I don't mind sitting and teaching my dc but am wondering are both of these teacher intensive past the 4th grade? Not that I want to hand my dc a workbook and walk away but I do want them to be able to read the instructions and apply them, with me near by to help if needed.

Thanks!

 

Well....

 

With BJU that depends, I think. For example when your dc does the chapter on place value, and she/he totally gets place value, then you just go over it to refresh their minds, show them the higher/new place value being taught, with or without the manipulatives, make sure they 'got it' and let them do the work. Takes you perhaps 5 minutes. By the 4th grade and beyond there will be a lot of chapters like that...as long as they've had a sold foundation in the previous years.

 

But, then there are those trickier chapters such as fractions, proportions, long division, percentages... Those will need more one on one hands on teaching time from you. No more than 15 minutes or so, but to excel in BJU math new concepts really must be teacher taught. The books DO give explainations...and perhaps the new editions give even more so (I have only used the older ones)...but BJU math is meant to be taught. What I am trying to say I guess is that it is teacher driven, but how long that takes will vary from day to day and child to child.

[Melissa in CA]

errrrrrr!! I keep getting "server busy" messages when I go to post something, so when I finally do get through to post...I find my post actually posted and I end up with a double post. LOL Crazy.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Melissa in CA

[PeterPan]

The BJU math is meant to be taught. I've done gr. 3-7, and I can't really describe any of it as independent at any age. The gr. 7 would be the closest, but in this new edition (VERY meaty) they add in so many new concepts (exponents, order of operations, etc.) to even the basic chapters that it's really not review. And reviews of the old edition aren't going to clue you into this, because the new edition is much harder.

 

That said, teaching, even short sessions of 10-15 min. is the best way to keep in touch with your student and make sure they're actually understanding it. For us it has worked out well. I think the only way really to get a feel for the different curricula is to order a book of each of them and try them. Horizons is only $7 for a semester workbook, and CLE will send you a booklet for free. Maybe a friend has a BJU tm you could borrow to try it out? My dd liked the narratives, the colorful lesson pages, having a single topic rather than bouncing around among so many things, etc.

[Omma]

I have used both of these (but neither one past grade 4). I really like the new 3rd edition of BJU Math... it is colorful with a running story line and great charts. Most of the time it only takes me about 15 minutes to go over the new lesson with my dd (she is a natural in math, however). My son, who is not a natural in math, prefers Horizons. I think he liked the spiral approach and the short lessons.

 

However, I feel like he is learning more with BJU than with Horizons, so I am sticking with BJU (much to his chagrin). He felt like he already knew everything when we switched at the beginning of 4th grade, but actually he only THOUGHT he knew everything... he really needed the firmer foundation that BJU Math offered him. He liked taking pride in knowing some pre-algebra that he learned early from Horizons, but he was woefully lacking in his ability to do his multiplication tables from memory.

 

In some ways I wish I would've stuck with Horizons with him (I hadn't realized the lessons were self-taught in 4th grade) but my dh and I felt that he needed to learn more math terminology and that BJU was better at teaching that. My dd did not like Horizons at all. She is very happy with BJU. I think my son would've been happier with BJU this year if he didn't have Mrs. Cropsey (it's the old edition of BJU w/ distance learning). But he's doing better now and I love having him use DVD's this year.

 

I like different aspects of each curriculum. Just remember that Horizons only goes up to 6th grade and then you'll have to switch to something else after that (but BJU goes all the way through hs).

 

Blessings,

 

Brenda

[Homeschooling6]

Thank you ladies so much! I'm still at a crossroads as which route to go :D

 

I could just go with CLE but I sold the first two grades last year.

 

With my last half of kiddos I wanted something a bit more colorful too. I have always used the more plain math. Not that it makes a difference but color would be nice for a change.

 

I like that Horizons uses workbooks through grade 6, then they can switch to Saxon once done.

 

I have also heard a lot of good things about BJU. Everything looks so fun.

 

What about the why of math, how do they compare in that department? I don't want anything like Singapore.

 

Since I am familiar with CLE and some of Saxon it's fine to compare with them if it will help explaining.

 

Again, appreciate all your help.

[Homeschooling6]

Are you ladies using only Bob Jones or only Horizons math? No supplementing or anything? Just wondering.:)

[monalisa]

Although I've only used BJU 1st grade math, everything I've read about it says it is teaching conceptually versus just operationally. It seems to be true in the 1st grade level, esp. with how place value is taught. I don't supplement (except I do use Calculadder for timed fact drills).

[MissKNG]

Are you ladies using only Bob Jones or only Horizons math? No supplementing or anything? Just wondering.:)

 

We are using Horizons alone right now but we are going to start Singapore shortly and move Horizons as the supplement. Two main reasons: Giving my my big girl some different mathematical approaches and to slow her down as she tears through math programs.

[thowell]

We have been using BJU 5 for a few weeks now. DD11 was just pulled from PS because she was really falling behind in math. She does have a mild LD and a slower processing speed so her math does take a little longer. Sometimes we split the lessons in half. However, BJU has been great! It is teaching her in a way that she finally gets it. She was in 4th grade in PS and had no idea how to do place value. After the first few lessons with BJU she got it!!!! (thanks OhElizabeth!!) Teaching time takes us about 20 minutes a day then we do the first few problems together and she completes the rest on her own asking when she has questions. I would suggest purchasing one of the extra review books (there are 3 different levels) in you would like extra practice and review but they are not necessary. I also want to say that the staff at BJU are priceless anytime I have had a question on something they go out of their way to help. It is a mastery program with review built in. I plan to follow BJU with DD11 throughout her school since this is the first thing that has worked!

[Homeschooling6]

So, if I want to try Horizons do I have to purchase the TM? I would like to try over the summer maybe, the first book forK, 2nd book for 1st and 2nd book for 2nd grade.

 

I tried searching regarding the TM but couldn't find a thread. I know people have asked before though:glare:

 

Thank you,

[Peaceful Isle]

I used BJU math k for my daughter when she was 5. We went through it pretty quickly and I ended up using abeka k numbers that year as well. We are now starting BJU math 1 for her now that she is 6. One thing I will say that I love about BJU math, is that it gave my child a LOVE for math! In the early grades, it is a slow paced, and stress free way to learn math. Very colorful too! I plan on using it for my younger child as well.

[Thea]

I've used Horizons with all three of my dc. My oldest to 4th--my ds to 5th and my dd is finishing up the 2nd book of 5 and will continue on with 6.

 

If you just want to try the program out, I would only get the 1st workbook of whatever year you decide on. The TM is helpful and I used is during the early grades. After 4th, the directions are printed directly in the workbooks and my dc are pretty independent with them.

 

IF you do use the TM, you will see that Horizons will have daily drills for math facts. For multiplication they use skip counting and this approach worked really well with my dc...they didn't have any issues with their multiplication tables.

[Melissa in CA]

I just want to say how refreshing it is to hear that so many use and love BJU's math. :D For a few years I felt like I was somehow doing my ds harm in not using Singapore, or one of the other highly touted maths here at the WTM. So I kept trying them. I bought Singapore twice thinking, "OK, this is supposed to be really good!" "This is the year I will like it!." And both times I sold it because BJU just did a better job teaching my son the whys. So it is encouraging to hear that others love BJU math as well.

 

To the op...

 

I did not use any full supplements with BJU. Right now I am working through BJU's Pre-Algebra with my ds, and supplementing with CLE 700. We do one 3x a week and the other 2x. It's a great combo for us! They fit nicely together right now. Prior to this year, grades 4-6, though I had supplements onhand such as Singapore's Challenging Word Problems books, very, very rarely did I pull one out for my ds to do. They were not a huge challenge to him (I probably had the wrong levels?) and just felt like extra busy work. Doing logic puzzles from a Critical Thinking book was far more challenging, and BJU's math resource...Stretch Your Mind...had a lot of great exercises in it to build thinking skills. I used those periodically...maybe 2x a week. So the main bulk of our math was BJU. I have never been very successful at doing two full math curricula at one time like others seem to manage. I've tried it, but though my ds likes math as well as the next average student, he's not one who wants to do two hours of math each day.

 

Again, I have no experience with Horizons. :001_smile:

[MissKNG]

So, if I want to try Horizons do I have to purchase the TM? I would like to try over the summer maybe, the first book forK, 2nd book for 1st and 2nd book for 2nd grade.

 

I tried searching regarding the TM but couldn't find a thread. I know people have asked before though:glare:

 

Thank you,

 

I don't use the TM for Horizons and I don't plan on it. I've heard the TM isn't very useful as far as actually teaching. I'm not very mathy and I'm doing fine without the TM!

[Homeschooling6]

Ladies, thank you SO much. You have all been so helpful. I think I'm getting closer to figuring things out :D

[Homeschooling6]

I just want to say how refreshing it is to hear that so many use and love BJU's math. :D For a few years I felt like I was somehow doing my ds harm in not using Singapore, or one of the other highly touted maths here at the WTM. So I kept trying them. I bought Singapore twice thinking, "OK, this is supposed to be really good!" "This is the year I will like it!." And both times I sold it because BJU just did a better job teaching my son the whys. So it is encouraging to hear that others love BJU math as well.

 

:001_smile:

 

I have done the samething and Singapore just doesn't work here for us either. I tried it twice, meaning I purchased some levels again to give it a second chance.

[momteaches2]

I have not used BJU math, but have used Horizons. We use Horizons math from K-3 before transitioning into Saxon 54 in 4th grade. I have seen that my kids are adequately prepared for this transition. Horizons is spiral. And, this is the only negative I have for Horizons math. I do find that I have to cut some sections of math in half for my dd, because there is so much review. She doesn't need to complete 12 '2-digit plus 2-digit' addition problems if I can see mastery in the first 4 or 5. For that, we tweak the program. Other than that I love it and my kids do, too.