WWYD: Retaining a really bright 5yo in kindergarten?

[Snickerdoodle]

Kids who are bored might not enjoy school, but their self-image might be such that they would find ways to challenge themselves outside of school.

You can be certain that very bright kids can find interesting ways to challenge themselves when and if they decide to ditch school. :D

 

 

Totally off topic, I know. I found the whole thread to be very interesting. Good luck with whatever you decide. Being a parent is replete with agonizing decisions.

[LibraryLover]

One can be really bright and still lack necessary skills/building blocks, that will come in time, and with assistance if needed. I wouldn't think of it as holding him back. I would think of it as skill-building. Knowledge (content) and skill are different animals.

 

But don't get me started. Ok , I got myself started. You don't need to know how to read and write perfectly to learn interesting and exciting things or to be exposed to interesting and exciting ideas. You don't have to be really bright or profoundly gifted to want to hear wonderful stories and do interesting things. So what if a kid has 'bad handwriting' at age 4 or 5. Oy.

Edited April 5, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Dobela]

Some of my son's sensory problems improved greatly with vision therapy. His eyes did not track together, and he did not always see depth or 3-d even though he had 20/20 vision. The smaller the print, the more poblems we had - so much so it was though he was dyslexic. I began at covd.org and found a fabulous optometrist there. After we began VT his handwriting improved past the point his OT thought would happen and with the help of a tutor his reading has exploded. I didn't realize just how much his vision was effecting everything else but now it makes sense.

 

I see why you are wanting to work with the school, but honestly it is not something I would do. But that is knowing my districts here. I would rather work independently thru K12 or some other curriculum company than involve them in my life at all.

 

When your son finds out he is retained or has been retained, what will you tell him? Kids know that repeating a grade means they are failing at something or not good enough at something. If they don't know at first, they will know later. Are you going to tell him that his grades were fine but he wasn't? If you are wanting to connect with nonreligious homeschoolers, try the library and other places all homeschoolers tend to visit and gather. Our librarians keep up with the different groups and can help you connect with other homeschoolers with similar interests and views. The school's goal will always be to get him back on their roll and out of homeschool.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Dobela
spelling

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I have no idea what I would do in your situation, but I can share some anecdotal experience.

 

[i deleted the personal stuff about my kids. I hope it has served it's purpose by now, and I don't see any reason to keep it here forever.] :)

 

 

The fact is, the actual academic coursework for first grade doesn't take that long when you do it at home (1 1/2 to 2 hours a day). You can do so much orally, to keep him challenged and engaged, while you work to improve his writing and sensory problems, take him to therapy, etc.

 

Anyway, I guess I'm going around in circles. I guess, if I were you, my first choice would be to stay out of the public school system, and do it on my own (actually, that's what I have done). :) That way, you can keep grade levels out of the equation (grades are for school, at home we just work at doing our best in everything).

 

My second choice would be to go ahead and put him in first grade (since you have to designate a grade for the school. If (or when) he ever went into the school system, I'd just deal with whatever situation existed at the time (why borrow trouble now?). If it turned out that he had to repeat a grade later on (doubtful, since most schools don't retain kids anymore), I'd make it clear that the failure was on MY part, not his. I'd apologize for messing up his education and his life, and beg his forgiveness. :) Then I'd explain all the benefits of being the oldest kid in his class, and tell him to knock them all dead. (figuratively speaking, of course)

 

My third choice would be to retain him in K. I know that in my niece's case, it hasn't hurt her. But, she was in immediate crisis at the time. She would have failed first grade because she hadn't been properly prepared for the accelerated school she was going into. They had no choice. It was a good choice for her. OTOH, your son isn't in immediate risk of failure. There is just a possibility that he might fail, IF he ever goes to school someday. Those are some big IFs. My dh would call your dh's plan "betting against himself" -- planning to fail. He'd say (quoting Richard Bach), "Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours."

 

Once again, I'm saying I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I guess I do. I would call him a first grader, and do my very best to give him every opportunity to achieve grade level in all areas. And, I would plan to keep him out of school for as long as it takes for him to work through his difficulties.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Suzanne in ABQ

[Snickerdoodle]

Fortunately, our district will be fine with him doing work in whatever grade level that is appropriate for him.

 

I know from my experience as a teacher...

 

I am planning to homeschool for the long-term.

 

I'm just wondering if OP's decision is being colored by the fact that she is a teacher and while she will be homeschooling she will be working closely with the school district.

 

This has been a fascinating discussion.

[wapiti]

Yeah, that's what we originally thought about ds's handwriting too, but his issue isn't simply being on the slow end of normal development. He really does have a significant processing issue. This isn't just a matter of sloppy writing. There's a whole array of motor planning, proprioception, vestibular function, and spatial awareness issues on top of underdeveloped gross and fine motor skills. He isn't just going to get better without a lot of therapy. His peers will continue to refine their fine motor skills to the point of automaticity, and they will be able to focus on other cognitive tasks while taking timed tests and writing essays. Ds will have to focus most of his mental effort just in forming the letters if he doesn't get his handwriting issue addressed.

 

***There is a very important point that I need to make here. Modern technology. If indeed he goes to public junior high/middle school, he will be keyboarding by then. Even if it isn't allowed as a matter of course for all kids five years from now, certainly even now your son would be eligible for a 504 plan to allow such accommodation. I cannot emphasize this point enough.***

 

We recently did some educational testing with my three older kids. They're all very bright but with slow processing issues (one of them, for example, at the 9th percentile), motor issues, two of them have SPD, they all have some sort of handwriting issue though each is different, one has already been through vision therapy, etc. The psychologist's recommendations included learning keyboarding ASAP (ok, these kids are 7 and 9 y.o., at the end of first and third grades). And advanced classes for content!

 

As you acknowledge, learning disability issues require therapy and/or accommodations. The special needs experts (both within the public school system and without) whom I have met would NOT recommend holding back for LDs like dysgraphia/dyslexia/etc. A paraphrase of one of my favorite quotes: when [content] work is too easy, self-confidence to attempt difficult work is steadily eroded - the slow road to underachievement.

 

If time alone won't cure the problem, I don't see how holding him back will help - and we're talking about deciding now to hold him back at some unknown point in the future when he returns to school. For the meantime, since he's at home, you can continue to work on what is appropriate content for him, while accommodating his learning disability of output and of course getting him OT or whatever therapy he needs - it's an ideal situation for today. When he returns to school, you can re-evaluate the appropriate grade at that time, and don't forget to call the special ed department about getting appropriate accommodations if he needs them, etc. (that's what the special ed dept is there for!!!) As some of the other posters mentioned above, if you hold him back on paper now, getting a future grade skip can be next to impossible.

 

 

Good luck with your decision!

Edited April 5, 2010 by wapiti

[zaichiki]

work is too easy, self-confidence to attempt difficult work is steadily eroded - the slow road to underachievement.

 

Really good point here -- especially that last bit (we're chewing this over right now as we consider whether or not to keep ds in school next year.

 

Also, OP, you said "his issue isn't simply being on the slow end of normal development. He really does have a significant processing issue." You might consider that 6th and 7th graders do a similar amount of writing... so you'd eventually lose any time-advantage that retention would give you now. (Not sure I chose the right words there. What I mean is that 2nd graders generally do more writing than 1st graders, but by 4th/5th grade or so that gap pretty much closes. If you retain your ds now and put him in school then, he'll no longer have the wiggle room for his writing, but he'll still have to deal with less challenging academics.)

 

Good luck in your decision. It's a rock and a hard place, isn't it?)

[ocelotmom]

Yeah, that's what we originally thought about ds's handwriting too, but his issue isn't simply being on the slow end of normal development. He really does have a significant processing issue. This isn't just a matter of sloppy writing. There's a whole array of motor planning, proprioception, vestibular function, and spatial awareness issues on top of underdeveloped gross and fine motor skills. He isn't just going to get better without a lot of therapy. His peers will continue to refine their fine motor skills to the point of automaticity, and they will be able to focus on other cognitive tasks while taking timed tests and writing essays. Ds will have to focus most of his mental effort just in forming the letters if he doesn't get his handwriting issue addressed.

This is exactly what accommodations in IEPs/504s are for - so that kids have the opportunity to live up to their academic potential without their disability holding them back. Extended time on tests, different test formats (oral vs. written), shortened written assignments, and allowing the use of a keyboard are all common accommodations that might be helpful for his situation.

 

Which isn't to say that I don't think therapy for the SPD isn't worth it, because addressing the underlying problem is obviously better than working around the individual symptoms, but, with a documented disability, I don't think you need to worry that he'll be expected to keep up with the exact same work as his typically developing peers.

[EthiopianFood]

Yeah, that's what we originally thought about ds's handwriting too, but his issue isn't simply being on the slow end of normal development. He really does have a significant processing issue. This isn't just a matter of sloppy writing. There's a whole array of motor planning, proprioception, vestibular function, and spatial awareness issues on top of underdeveloped gross and fine motor skills. He isn't just going to get better without a lot of therapy. His peers will continue to refine their fine motor skills to the point of automaticity, and they will be able to focus on other cognitive tasks while taking timed tests and writing essays. Ds will have to focus most of his mental effort just in forming the letters if he doesn't get his handwriting issue addressed.

 

I really wasn't very clear at all. I often don't make sense when I'm tired. :D Yes, therapy, absolutely, and thank God you are being so proactive about it. He will be so grateful when he is older that he has parents who believe in therapy. I guess I meant was that, if he still has significant issues in 6-9 years, even with the therapy, is an extra year really going to make a difference?

 

...

 

Ds isn't currently "behind" in kindergarten because there just isn't that much written output expected of kindergarteners. All the areas in which he excels are mostly "receptive" learning areas. He's quite good at verbalizing what he knows. However, we really do have to address his SPD and his writing, because so much of later learning also requires lots of writing. Of course, there are plenty of accommodations that we can make, and I'm learning about those now. Still, saying that he is "just" behind in writing is like saying a kid is "just" behind in reading. It may not mean much now, but if there is an underlying problem, it can really have a huge impact on later learning.

 

Public schools have ways to accomodate, the above person said. Not to be funny, but would you hold a child back because they had a disability like missing hands or fingers? Or if he was blind? You know?

 

:D You know, RaeAnn, I really do like your bluntness. I wish I knew you irl. I could totally hang with you.

 

This really means a lot to me. :001_smile: I'm naturally direct (let's just get to the point!!), but I'm a people pleaser, so it only comes out occasionally. Quite the dilemma! :glare:

 

...

 

Kids who are bored might not enjoy school, but their self-image might be such that they would find ways to challenge themselves outside of school. I would ditch class so that I could finish reading Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Aldous Huxley and Nietzsche. I never felt that I wasn't smart just because I was bored. And I always knew learning didn't just happen in school. Far from it.

 

Yeah, I was bored and became a lazy underachiever. I went to class, did my work in ten minutes, then read a novel. I'm only now realizing that some subjects might have been interesting to me if they hadn't been dumbed down. Like, I think I might enjoy algebra. :001_huh: This is a major reason I am choosing homeschooling. Please don't ask how the preceding sentence will turn out considering the beginning of this paragraph. :lol: I have a feeling that your son won't have these issues with the good foundation you will give him, but this all explains where my opinions are coming from.

 

No matter what you do, I think your son is lucky that you will be homeschooing him, so he can ENJOY school. He sounds really fun to teach, too!

[peacefully]

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[peacefully]

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