Question on the role of Judas in the Easter story ...

[saw]

I always understood that Judas betrayed Jesus. My dcs, however, have come home from religion class with the information that Judas didn't really mean to betray Jesus and that it was all a big mistake. Apparently Judas was trying to get something for Jesus and it all went wrong. Can someone set me straight here? I'm a bit confused. Thank you.

[GothicGyrl]

Even *I* know that Judas knew he had to betray Jesus. Now, she might have said that after the betrayal, Judas might have regretted it, but it states quite plainly, that Judas needed to betray Jesus in order the events to unfold as planned.

 

So, "not really meaning to betray" --I can see that as meaning "he really did not want to but knew he had to", instead of "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to".

[jacqui in mo]

I've heard it as Judas was trying to force Jesus to take action and start being the Messiah he thought they were looking for. One who would kick Roman Butt & free Israel. So in that sense he wasn't trying to send Jesus to his death. He thought Jesus would react to save himself not go meekly to a slaughter. But it was still a betrayal and God knew what Judas' motive was going to be. On our part, it's really more speculation.

[Dawn E]

along the road (don't remember when this theory was presented or by whom), was that since the Jewish people were expecting a warrior Messiah to come and physically deliver them from the hand of the Romans, that Judas' betrayal was actually a way of forcing Jesus' hand to bring about that deliverance. The disciples did not understand that Jesus was here to die for our sins and deliver us from our spiritual captivity, although he had tried to prepare them. Thus, Judas would not have had any idea the outcome of his actions would lead to Jesus death. He had in his mind what Jesus should do and he wasn't doing it soon enough so he helped. I am not saying I espouse to this idea, just that I have heard it.

[Dawn E]

I've heard it as Judas was trying to force Jesus to take action and start being the Messiah he thought they were looking for. One who would kick Roman Butt & free Israel. So in that sense he wasn't trying to send Jesus to his death. He thought Jesus would react to save himself not go meekly to a slaughter. But it was still a betrayal and God knew what Judas' motive was going to be. On our part, it's really more speculation.

 

Slow typist here. :001_smile:

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, this is what I've read, too.....

 

Regena

[OnTheBrink]

Matthew 26:

 

14Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.

The Lord's Supper

17On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

 

18He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.' " 19So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.

 

20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."

 

22They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"

 

23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

 

25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"

Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."[a]

 

26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

 

27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

 

30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

 

*snip*

 

47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.

 

50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."[d]

 

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

 

52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

 

55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

 

Luke 22

Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus

1Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.

 

 

 

I don't see any evidence that Judas accidentally betrayed Jesus. He was used by satan, and afterwards, felt remorse and killed himself, but it wasn't an accidental event. In satan's ongoing battle with God, he used Judas to have Jesus killed, thinking that would end all this Messiah business once and for all. Little did he know.

[PariSarah]

Some people theorized that "Iscariot" is not a place-name but a corruption of the word sicarios. The sicarii were a band of vigilante zionist zealots. If so, Judas was part of a right-wing terrorist group, and was trying to force Jesus' hand by provoking a confrontation with the authorities. It was a strategic miscalculation, according to this reading.

 

Despite what the wiki article I'm linking says, this is NOT the "general view of secular historians." It's a plausible idea, but it has not gained enough support to be called the "general view" of anybody. It's a revisionist view, but not necessarily in a bad way.

[MichelleWI]

The idea that Judas didn't mean for Jesus to be put to death is just a guess made long, long after the fact to try to explain why he would do such a heinous thing.

 

As was said, it's a revisionist viewpoint and I tend to take those with a pinch (or a pound) of salt. There is some merit to considering the idea, but the scriptures would probably have pointed out this motivation if it were true.

[Adrianne]

It seems your children are the victim of controversial Christian teaching. This thinking on Judas is quite revolutionary and is not widely accepted by many Christians as this theory on Judas is not supported by the Bible.

 

This view of Judas came about after some highly suspicious papers were found not too long ago. These papers are called the testament of Judas are not widely accepted in the Christian community.

 

For a more traditional Christian experience, you might want to A) talk to the teachers from this place, or B) find a more traditional church.

[lovemyboys]

I always understood that Judas betrayed Jesus.

 

That's exactly what I'd understood, expanded by a couple people who have elaborated here.

 

But...dh and I just heard this interesting interpretation....

 

We watched a Discovery channel program on Easter Sunday about the life of Jesus. They showed archaeology of Jerusalem, the temple, discussed the times and traditions. We saw the portions from Palm Sunday on to the crucifixion.

 

Anyway, when it came to the point about Judas, the narrator said that there's been examination into the term "betray" as translated in our Bibles. The more accurate term may be "turn over" which has other nuances. Apparently, Judas is referred to in scripture as Jesus' friend. According to this documentary-style program, Judas was actually performing a necessary action that had to be done in order for Jesus to fulfill his destiny, with Jesus' knowledge. The disciples were still unaware of what was to come. Judas' subsequent action in taking his own life was more an act of extreme anguish than guilt.

 

I do think it's good to keep an eye on the interpretations that dc receive in their church school setting.

 

It was a very interesting program, thought-provoking, historically and scientifically "curious" while acknowledging that ultimately, it's about faith.

[PrairieAir]

along the road (don't remember when this theory was presented or by whom), was that since the Jewish people were expecting a warrior Messiah to come and physically deliver them from the hand of the Romans, that Judas' betrayal was actually a way of forcing Jesus' hand to bring about that deliverance. The disciples did not understand that Jesus was here to die for our sins and deliver us from our spiritual captivity, although he had tried to prepare them. Thus, Judas would not have had any idea the outcome of his actions would lead to Jesus death. He had in his mind what Jesus should do and he wasn't doing it soon enough so he helped. I am not saying I espouse to this idea, just that I have heard it.

 

That's what I understand. Yes, Judas did play a necessary role, but I don't believe he understood that role or ever came to terms with what he did even though Jesus forgave him for betraying him.

______________

I also agree with this said by Sola Michelle:

"I don't see any evidence that Judas accidentally betrayed Jesus. He was used by satan, and afterwards, felt remorse and killed himself, but it wasn't an accidental event. In satan's ongoing battle with God, he used Judas to have Jesus killed, thinking that would end all this Messiah business once and for all. Little did he know."

 

What exactly Judas' intentions were are speculation. We don't know what he thought would happen to Jesus, and that isn't terribly relevant. It is clear from the biblical record that the disciples did not understand the need for Jesus to die and that he would be raised afterward until after it happened. Looking back, it is easier for us to see what happened and why and how it all worked out and say that the disciples should have understood what Jesus had been trying to tell them;)

[Daisy]

Well, I'm one of those crazy folks that reads my Bible and takes it at face value. What it says it says and what it leaves to mystery, it leaves to mystery. I'm not going to speculate on Judas' motives. I would be disturbed by a teacher who added personal commentary of this sort to a narrative passage.

[Scarlett]

Well, I'm one of those crazy folks that reads my Bible and takes it at face value. What it says it says and what it leaves to mystery, it leaves to mystery. I'm not going to speculate on Judas' motives. I would be disturbed by a teacher who added personal commentary of this sort to a narrative passage.

 

Me too.

 

And I'm thinking of the apostles who questioned Jesus saying, 'it is not I, is it?' and they were deeply grieved to think it would be one of them. Sounds like real betrayal to me.

[Melinda in VT]

I would be disturbed by a teacher who added personal commentary of this sort to a narrative passage.

 

It could be that a child questioned why Judas would do that, and the teacher mentioned a theory she'd heard. The teacher didn't necessarily set out to teach this idea.

 

Or maybe she did. But without hearing her side of it, it is hard to tell.

[Scarlett]

It could be that a child questioned why Judas would do that, and the teacher mentioned a theory she'd heard. The teacher didn't necessarily set out to teach this idea.

 

Or maybe she did. But without hearing her side of it, it is hard to tell.

 

I'm glad I do the religious training of my son.

[PineFarmMom]

Well, I'm one of those crazy folks that reads my Bible and takes it at face value. What it says it says and what it leaves to mystery, it leaves to mystery. I'm not going to speculate on Judas' motives. I would be disturbed by a teacher who added personal commentary of this sort to a narrative passage.

 

Anything outside of scripture is subject to too much human error. I read the scripture passage someone else posted earlier. It says he betrayed Jesus, so I believe that is what he did. Of course, I personally believe all scripture is God-breathed, and thus I believe the gospels, epistles, etc., were orchestrated by God regardless of how limited the view of their writers might have been. I'm not putting my faith in the viewpoint of an writer but in God to get the truth out that is the Bible. God knew and knows all.

 

Teresa

[PariSarah]

I'm not going to speculate on Judas' motives. I would be disturbed by a teacher who added personal commentary of this sort to a narrative passage.

 

. . . that the teacher probably (not definitely, but probably) wasn't trying to undermine the Christian faith. Certainly some of the people who espouse the view I linked below are anxious to find any point of disagreement they can with traditional or orthodox views. But many people who like this reading of Judas are simply trying to allow what we know about the political situation of the time to help us understand the Bible better.

 

If "Iscariot" means something that's not obvious to us, twenty centuries removed, then it makes sense to try and investigate it, yes? People who like the "sicarii" story are not saying, "Judas didn't betray Jesus. The Bible's just making that part up." They're saying, "Can we try to understand why Judas did what he did? Did he intend for Jesus to die?" Even the biblical authors have multiple takes on this. One says that he did it because he was money-hungry; another because Satan entered him (which sounds less culpable than the first, you know?).

 

It's like investigating what Josephus says about Pontius Pilate to help us understand what's going on in the passion account of John a little better. Some of Pilate's statements in John are unclear or obscure. Reading biographical info about him from other sources is a good idea. Or reading a historical account of the Pharisees and the Sadducees so that you can understand Jesus' confrontations with them. If you knew more about them, you could understand the passages better.

 

I don't know anything about the teacher in OP's school, obviously, and it's hard to tell what she actually said when you only have a child's garbled version of it to go on. But I'm guessing that she thought she was doing good historical background, not undermining her students' faith in the Bible.

[Daisy]

Which is why I used the word, "disturbed" rather than irate. LOL. I would talk with the teacher and find out what was said and we'd have a rational discussion about it. Iwouldn't assume the teacher was trying to undermine the christian faith. I might assume she was discussing topics that were beyond the scope of child-like understanding but that would depend upon the age of the child and the expectations of the class.

[PariSarah]

Which is why I used the word, "disturbed" rather than irate. LOL.

 

:D